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Hormones

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Lyme Disease
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MedicalNerd
Veteran Member
Joined : Jun 2019
Posts : 1441
Posted 9/11/2022 6:54 AM (GMT -8)
What gives ? I've tested certain hormones like testosterone and estrogen but nothing. I grew a chin hair and other hairs women shouldn't grow. I feel my hormones are so out of whack and don't even want to take birth control or any sort of hormones to mess my body up even more. What hormones should I get tested?? The docs always give me the run around arm wave saying I look so young a.d healthy and said there's not any more hormones they can test, just the basic testosterone and estrogen. I know that's a lie. Since lyme and bart , and mold my hormones have been screwed. Pls tell me exactly what hormones to get checked out relating to us women more specifically, adrenal hormones etc? Thanks
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WalkingbyFaith
Veteran Member
Joined : Aug 2017
Posts : 7747
Posted 9/11/2022 6:58 AM (GMT -8)
You said you tested, but nothing. Do you mean nothing was high or low, everything was in mid-range of normal?

There’s a panel of hormones that can be tested. Find a Functional MD if no one will order the tests. Aren’t you seeing a Lyme doctor now? Won’t they test the full range of hormones?
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Quin
Veteran Member
Joined : Oct 2018
Posts : 1612
Posted 9/11/2022 9:11 AM (GMT -8)
Lyme just completely whacked my hormone levels. I suspect that not only does it stress the endocrine system with whatever toxins it produces, but also the hormones seem to get trapped in the bacteria or biofilm or whatever, because my hormone levels would get especially wacky when herxing.

Additionally, medications like rifampin which elevate CYP3A4 will affect various hormones and also vitamin D.

That said, the usual suspect for excess testosterone would be 21-hydroxylase deficiency, which is diagnosed by testing 17-hydroxyprogesterone. That condition is caused by a genetic disorder and not Lyme disease.
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Girlie
Forum Moderator
Joined : May 2014
Posts : 47449
Posted 9/11/2022 12:03 PM (GMT -8)
There used to be a lab that would test hormones without a dr lab req.
I think it was AZT??
I used it a few times but it’s been years and I don’t recall the details.
I remember doing spit tests to check out hormone levels - 3x daily.
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MedicalNerd
Veteran Member
Joined : Jun 2019
Posts : 1441
Posted 9/11/2022 12:50 PM (GMT -8)

Girlie said...
There used to be a lab that would test hormones without a dr lab req.
I think it was AZT??
I used it a few times but it’s been years and I don’t recall the details.
I remember doing spit tests to check out hormone levels - 3x daily.

I googled AZT and think I've found it only it's called ZRT , thanks because I was getting so desperate at this point with my hormones all out of whack.
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astroman
Veteran Member
Joined : Mar 2014
Posts : 8907
Posted 9/11/2022 1:22 PM (GMT -8)
Hormones are not like an on off switch, they are like a dimmer switch.

For some people low but still in range is a big deal depending on what hormone it is and what your issues are.

It’s pretty obvious with thyroid hormone being right under the range and barely right over the range is not much different. You just won’t feel well. But according to doctors everything is black and white so you should go from total crap being under range to feeling awesome when you’re just barely over the range. Lol how did they think this way?!!!!!
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Quin
Veteran Member
Joined : Oct 2018
Posts : 1612
Posted 9/11/2022 2:22 PM (GMT -8)
Maybe this?

https://requestatest.com/17-hydroxyprogesterone-ohp-progesterone-test
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Girlie
Forum Moderator
Joined : May 2014
Posts : 47449
Posted 9/12/2022 2:21 AM (GMT -8)

MedicalNerd said...

Girlie said...
There used to be a lab that would test hormones without a dr lab req.
I think it was AZT??
I used it a few times but it’s been years and I don’t recall the details.
I remember doing spit tests to check out hormone levels - 3x daily.

I googled AZT and think I've found it only it's called ZRT , thanks because I was getting so desperate at this point with my hormones all out of whack.

////////////////////////////////

YES! It’s ZRT! Lol
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MedicalNerd
Veteran Member
Joined : Jun 2019
Posts : 1441
Posted 9/13/2022 6:19 PM (GMT -8)

Girlie said...

MedicalNerd said...

Girlie said...
There used to be a lab that would test hormones without a dr lab req.
I think it was AZT??
I used it a few times but it’s been years and I don’t recall the details.
I remember doing spit tests to check out hormone levels - 3x daily.

I googled AZT and think I've found it only it's called ZRT , thanks because I was getting so desperate at this point with my hormones all out of whack.

////////////////////////////////

YES! It’s ZRT! Lol

Thanks lol. Do you think birth control makes us feel worse hormone wise. When I take this crap I feel more out of whack. I feel I should just stay off hormones until I get my own hormones under control.

Post Edited (MedicalNerd) : 9/16/2022 1:06:51 PM (GMT-7)

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saraeli
Forum Moderator
Joined : Jan 2019
Posts : 3229
Posted 9/14/2022 9:55 AM (GMT -8)
I get a lot of intolerable side effects from hormonal contraceptives, so I have been doing my best to get my body to produce proper hormones on its own. I was diagnosed with HPA axis dysfunction by a Lyme-literate functional medicine gynecologist in 2018 following 33-day salivary hormone testing for a complete panel of reproductive hormones (estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, DHEA, pregnenolone, and some others). I'd already had several cortisol and thyroid panels done. Treatment focused on five things:
1. Moving the body - If you have PEM and cannot exercise, then start with massage and rebounding, then restorative yoga. Yoga in general is a great option for making sure circulation, stretching, and toning reaches every part of the body. Qi gong and tai chi also are good. Walking or something that gets the heart rate up is helpful as well - again, if you can tolerate cardio exercise.
2. Nutrition - No stimulants, including caffeine and sugar. No processed foods. Plenty of omega 3 fatty acids, healthy fats, magnesium, selenium, and zinc. Regular bowel movements. Hydration.
3. Genuine stress management - Most of us can't modify our schedules to include fewer obligations, especially if we have children or jobs, so we must practice regular stress management concertedly. Every day, multiple times. For real. This step cannot be skipped. Meditation, breath exercises, tapping, mindfulness apps, tai chi, whatever works for you. Our nervous systems have to have this regularly in order to get out of fight-or-flight and produce hormones.
4. Adaptogenic herbs - This takes some trial and error to find the one that's right for you, but there are lots to try: ashwagandha, rhodiola, holy basil, eleuthero, etc.
5. Chaste tree berry (a.k.a. vitex) - This herb balances hormones and supports progesterone production, so it's especially helpful for estrogen dominance.

If doing those five things doesn't help enough, then she prescribed people topical compounded bioidentical hormones, dosed based on the person's hormone testing. She was adamant that people not guess about what they are low or high in, and to use extensive testing to determine dosages of each supplemented hormone.

My symptoms sounded like low cortisol and high estrogen, but testing showed I was making slightly high amounts of cortisol and almost no estrogen or progesterone! My body was using the cortisol to mimic the jobs of the reproductive hormones, leaving me feeling like I had low cortisol and high estrogen. If I had supplemented based on symptoms alone, then I would have taken measures to reduce my (almost nonexistent) estrogen and raise my already-high cortisol! Hormone systems are all connected, and don't always interact the ways we think. So for me, the long-term, detailed testing was important.

I am actually re-focusing on this stuff right now, as reproductive system symptoms have worsened again, so I'd be happy to hear anyone's further ideas about bolstering and balancing reproductive hormones.
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MedicalNerd
Veteran Member
Joined : Jun 2019
Posts : 1441
Posted 9/16/2022 12:14 PM (GMT -8)

saraeli said...
I get a lot of intolerable side effects from hormonal contraceptives, so I have been doing my best to get my body to produce proper hormones on its own. I was diagnosed with HPA axis dysfunction by a Lyme-literate functional medicine gynecologist in 2018 following 33-day salivary hormone testing for a complete panel of reproductive hormones (estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, DHEA, pregnenolone, and some others). I'd already had several cortisol and thyroid panels done. Treatment focused on five things:
1. Moving the body - If you have PEM and cannot exercise, then start with massage and rebounding, then restorative yoga. Yoga in general is a great option for making sure circulation, stretching, and toning reaches every part of the body. Qi gong and tai chi also are good. Walking or something that gets the heart rate up is helpful as well - again, if you can tolerate cardio exercise.
2. Nutrition - No stimulants, including caffeine and sugar. No processed foods. Plenty of omega 3 fatty acids, healthy fats, magnesium, selenium, and zinc. Regular bowel movements. Hydration.
3. Genuine stress management - Most of us can't modify our schedules to include fewer obligations, especially if we have children or jobs, so we must practice regular stress management concertedly. Every day, multiple times. For real. This step cannot be skipped. Meditation, breath exercises, tapping, mindfulness apps, tai chi, whatever works for you. Our nervous systems have to have this regularly in order to get out of fight-or-flight and produce hormones.
4. Adaptogenic herbs - This takes some trial and error to find the one that's right for you, but there are lots to try: ashwagandha, rhodiola, holy basil, eleuthero, etc.
5. Chaste tree berry (a.k.a. vitex) - This herb balances hormones and supports progesterone production, so it's especially helpful for estrogen dominance.

If doing those five things doesn't help enough, then she prescribed people topical compounded bioidentical hormones, dosed based on the person's hormone testing. She was adamant that people not guess about what they are low or high in, and to use extensive testing to determine dosages of each supplemented hormone.

My symptoms sounded like low cortisol and high estrogen, but testing showed I was making slightly high amounts of cortisol and almost no estrogen or progesterone! My body was using the cortisol to mimic the jobs of the reproductive hormones, leaving me feeling like I had low cortisol and high estrogen. If I had supplemented based on symptoms alone, then I would have taken measures to reduce my (almost nonexistent) estrogen and raise my already-high cortisol! Hormone systems are all connected, and don't always interact the ways we think. So for me, the long-term, detailed testing was important.

I am actually re-focusing on this stuff right now, as reproductive system symptoms have worsened again, so I'd be happy to hear anyone's further ideas about bolstering and balancing reproductive hormones.

My obgyn is getting older and I think he's just whatever about these things and always says I'm fine which I'm not. My newer doctor was off her rocker when she looked at me and said I look young and healthy. She said I couldn't possibly be anywhere near menopause because I'm 30 years old even though I've had multiple pregnancies and I have lyme, co infections etc. Says my testosterone and estrogen should be fine because I'm healthy so she doesn't feel the need to test me since I've had pregnancies that means I should be fine .oh what a load lol!!! The things docs say is just like what else can I say to convince them then. Do you know what estrogen dominance looks and feels like by the way? I've heard of many people with bartonella actually bring this topic up bt I never really looked into it.
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saraeli
Forum Moderator
Joined : Jan 2019
Posts : 3229
Posted 9/16/2022 3:02 PM (GMT -8)
Estrogen dominance can include decreased libido, awful periods, worsening PMS, heavy bleeding, mood swings, anxiety, sore breasts, fibroids, fatigue, irregular periods, and other things. It can be more likely for people with poor diets, gut issues, high toxin loads from environmental contaminants or personal care products, diets high in animal products, exposure to heavy metals and plastics, and chronic stress. Being in a state of estrogen dominance long-term can carry risks, including increased reproductive cancer risks. My LLMD's first recommendation to treat estrogen dominance is the herb vitex (also known as chaste tree or chaste berry), plus of course a cleaner diet and lifestyle, exercise, and stress management.
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MedicalNerd
Veteran Member
Joined : Jun 2019
Posts : 1441
Posted 9/17/2022 6:15 PM (GMT -8)

saraeli said...
Estrogen dominance can include decreased libido, awful periods, worsening PMS, heavy bleeding, mood swings, anxiety, sore breasts, fibroids, fatigue, irregular periods, and other things. It can be more likely for people with poor diets, gut issues, high toxin loads from environmental contaminants or personal care products, diets high in animal products, exposure to heavy metals and plastics, and chronic stress. Being in a state of estrogen dominance long-term can carry risks, including increased reproductive cancer risks. My LLMD's first recommendation to treat estrogen dominance is the herb vitex (also known as chaste tree or chaste berry), plus of course a cleaner diet and lifestyle, exercise, and stress management.

I have loads of those symptoms bt who knows if it's my Lyme and bart ramping up. So how would you be tested for estrogen dominance just with a simple testinf of estrogen levels?
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saraeli
Forum Moderator
Joined : Jan 2019
Posts : 3229
Posted 9/18/2022 8:05 AM (GMT -8)
Hormones fluctuate throughout the day and throughout the cycle, so doctors who specialize in this would want long-term salivary testing. The test I had done took samples every other day for 33 days. A doctor looking into this more generally (like a PCP or most LLMDs) might be satisfied with a blood test on a specific day of your cycle, but some consider these tests less reliable. Still, then can be an easy way to indicate that there's an issue. Maybe if the simple blood test says everything is normal, then ask for the long-term salivary testing, but if the blood test says something is off, then you can just believe that and go from there.
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