Status of a Non-Kegeler

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triker
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 22
   Posted 2/13/2008 8:24 PM (GMT -7)   
Since my surgeon's strategy for dealing with incontinence seems to be a little different than the norm, I thought that it might be beneficial to post his method and my results to date. I am by no means suggesting that anyone else should follow my surgeon's advice, and I even had doubts during the recovery process.

I should first state that I picked the most experienced surgeon that I could find in the Atlanta area, and he had performed approximately 1000 Da Vinci surgeries. I had a lot of confidence in him going in, but I knew that there were no guarantees regarding the dreaded side effects. The catheter was removed 8 days after surgery, and when I met with him on that day, he did not say anything about kegels. I asked if I should start the kegels, and he said "no, not for at least 3 weeks".

My leaking at first was minimal, but as I became more active the leaking increased. At the 3 week mark, if I was walking, I was leaking. I was only using 2-3 pads a day, but I was getting somewhat discouraged and felt that I needed to start the kegels. I spoke to my surgeon's nurse 3 weeks after the catheter was removed to ask about the kegels, and she said that she would ask the doctor and call me back. This was on a Friday, so I did not expect a call before Monday. By the time Monday rolled around, I had made significant improvements with the leaking. She failed to call back, but I decided to continue with the no kegel approach. Improvements continued until I became leak free (excluding a rare stress leak) at about the 7-8 week mark.

I have no idea if continence would have returned quicker or slower if I had done kegels. I just thought that I would share my story since my surgeon's method goes against the accepted wisdom of doing kegels.

ALSO, my first post surgery PSA was zero!!!
Walter

Age 58
10/06 - 1st PSA ever - 4.6
11/06 - PSA retake - 5.3
12/06 - Biopsy, 12 cores - negative
7/07 - PSA - 9.0
7/07 - PSA 13.8 (after 10 days antibiotics)
8/07 - Biopsy, 12 cores, 1 positive @1%; Gleason 3+3=6
9/17/07 - Bone scan - negative
9/18/07 - CT scan - negative
10/12/07 - John Hopkins recheck of biopsy slides Gleason 3+3=6
11/29/07 Da Vinci surgery performed at Northside Hospital in Atlanta
12/7/07 Catheter out; Post surgery path report: Gleason 3+3=6; Negative margins; T2C
2/5/08 Pad free


kw
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 883
   Posted 2/13/2008 8:29 PM (GMT -7)   
Congratulations, It is interesting though! I really think it is all about how your body adapts unless there is some clear damage to the sphincter. In my case the sphincter works and looks fine. I was just one of the unlucky few that my body did not fill in and support the area.

Good Luck,
KW
    43
    PSA 5.7, Biopsy 3 of 12 positive (up to 75%) all on left side of prostate, Gleason 7
    RRP on Oct. 17, - Nerves on right side saved. All Lab's clear. 
    Cathiter in for 28 days due to complications in healing. Removed Nov. 9, 2006
    First Post op PSA on Dec. 11, 2006  Undetectable 0.00.
    ED workable and usable with Viagra.
    Feb. 20th, 2007 - Feb. 4th, 2008  Cystoscope, Two Collagen injections,Second opinion Doctor at OU Medical Center, Bio-Feedback training, Chiropractic, Accupuncture  to try to resolve ongoing incontinance (4-6 pads a day)  All PSA's 0.00.
    Feb. 4th, 2008 - Appointment with Original Dr. to discuss options and recomendation for surgical fix for incontinance.
    Feb. 22nd, 2008 - Surgery to install the AdVance Sling.
 
     


wd40
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2008
Total Posts : 218
   Posted 2/14/2008 6:56 AM (GMT -7)   
Like you I am a nonkegeler person and gained control in early in the first week with only sneeze protection required Second week no problem.
I would hope someone would do a study.
12/06/07 DaVinci and open prostate surgery after difficulties in breathing stopped the davinci.
Walked a lot
90% control the day the catherter removed.
pad only for a sneeze before the week was out
No pads most of the second week.


jrponalameda
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2007
Total Posts : 56
   Posted 2/14/2008 7:06 AM (GMT -7)   
My surgeon was rather lukewarm on recommending Kegels. My Dad was rather shocked at this, since he had been advised to Kegel regularly and had done so. I did a few intermittent Kegels, but probably not enough to make much difference. I've had a fairly good return to continence, only requiring pads as a precaution after about 6 weeks, and generally pad-free at 10 weeks. Perhaps it would have been quicker if I'd done more Kegels, but who knows...

James C.
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4461
   Posted 2/14/2008 7:36 AM (GMT -7)   
I did many, many sets of kegals before surgery and none after.  I was dry within a week after catheter removal.  Like everything else about this, it seems to be very individualized in our recovery...

Gene214
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 422
   Posted 2/14/2008 9:11 AM (GMT -7)   

I did kegals faithfully for 8 months.. and did bio-feedback.  It's still drip, drip, drip.  But again, that road should be followed because it has evidently helped so many.

Gene


Age: 64
07/05 - Biopsy: Suspicious looking cells. 
12/27/06 - Biopsy
1/24/07 - Dignosed cancer: Gleason Grade: 3+3=6
02-14-07 Radical Open Nerve-sparing surgery
Pathology Stage of cancer: T2c
4-18-07: First Post-Op psa = 0.011
05/31/07: Cystoscope reveals "Stricture"
06/12/07: Procedure to remove stone & dilate uretha at stricture: Successful procedure..
8/31/07: Back to new urologist for regular check up & received 2nd post-op Psa.  It was 0.05
8/31/07:  First Bio Feedback session.
9/19/07: Finished 4 Bio Feedback sessions.  No imporovement with leaking. 
9/26/07 - Started injections 
10/27-07 - Began using clamp at uro's encouragement.
02/01/08 - Still leaking & cannot contain urine in bladder except when sitting or laying down.  Can hold it for abut one minute before drip, drip, drip.
02/28/08 - See Uro. Will discuss artificial sphincter 
 


StrictlyInc
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 353
   Posted 2/16/2008 3:44 PM (GMT -7)   
I gave up on kegels too, still at 1 pad, with mostly stress incontinence. I think they may have improved things early on, but i wonder about the long run. My urologist said to keep them up, though. It's a hard regimen to maintain, though.
____________________

Prostate cancer diagnosed: May 15, 2006 (age 40)
Gleason score: pre-surgery 3+3=6; post-surgery 3+4=7
daVinci radical prostatectomy: July 25, 2006
size of tumor: approx 1.1 inches; negative margins from surgery

- number of pads/day at 3 months after surgery: 3 to 5
- number of pads/day at 4 months after surgery: 1 to 2
- number of pads/day at 6-18 months after surgery: 0 to 1

- 1st post-surgery PSA: 0 (Nov 2006); 2nd post-surgery PSA: 0 (Feb 2007)
- 3rd post-surgery PSA: 0 (May 2007); 4th post-surgery PSA: 0 (June 2007); 5th post-surgery PSA: 0

The search for timber: took Viagra/Cialis approx. every other day, ErecAid once a day, injections. Peyronie's diagnosed 7/5/07. Now on daily Cialis, L-arginine and pentoxyfylline. Peyronies has stabilized and significantly reversed.

- PGE1 batting average: .364 (4 for 11)
- Bimix batting average: .706 (12 for 17)
- Trimix batting average: .500 (1 for 2) Grand total 17 for 30 = .567

"Lost in the valley without my horses, no one can tell me what my remorse is..."


pasayten
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 424
   Posted 2/16/2008 11:04 PM (GMT -7)   

I am 10 months post op davinci and am pretty much dry all the time.  No pads for a long time.  I was rarely faithful to my kegal regime after 3-4 months,  but I had pretty good ones to begin with.  I have an occasional squirt sometimes if climbing ladder or lifting a heavy item and forget to "kegal"...   I have also found that alchohol will cause leakage sometimes, but I am talkiing after 3-4 glasses of wine.  One or two...  no problem.  :-)

I do find myself kind of automatically flexing my kegals at randoms times....   driving, thinking, watching tv..  probably average only once every other day.    As a side note, I have found kegals do help a little in the ED department for reaching climax.  I am about at 70-80% erection with 100mg generic viagra which works fine for sex (except for wife on top - add the vacuret pump to get to 110% for that)...   Must be something to do with the geometry during this healing process.   Recently I have been able to get to 50-60% w/o pills and just stimulation (including kegals)...

God Bless!

pasayten


Age 59 y/o - Last 3-4 years of annual general health checkups - PSA 5-6
3/13/2007 - 12 point biopsy - Left 0/6  Right 1/6 Gleason 3+3 Diagnosed as T1c
4/24/2007 - DaVinci performed at Virginia Mason hospital in Seattle
5/2/2007 - Catheter Out! Final pathology of Gleason 6  T2c Nx Mx,   approx 20% of prostate involved, positive margin, but only at 2 focal points.  
6/28/2007 9 weeks post-op incontinance... Overnite, went from 4-6 soaked pads a day from prev 8 weeks to 2 barely wet pads a day.
7/12/2007 11 weeks post-op  Minimal leakage...  one small pad a day
7/18/2007 First Post-Op PSA...  0.01 !!! 
7/30/2007 ED improved to about 60% erection and "functional". Only using 50mg Viagra generic every 2-3 days.
9/10/2007 Ran out of pads one day and had no dribbles all day...  Now pad free. :-)

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