2 Year ~ PSA

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spinbiscuit Veteran Member Date Joined Apr 2006 Total Posts : 818	Posted 2/26/2008 2:29 PM (GMT -6)
	Hello to everyone, It's been a while since I've posted so I thought I'd share some good news. I just returned from the doctor's office where I got my 2 year PSA test; Big Fat "0"; what a relief! Now I'm on a 1 year PSA test schedule although I'm going back in 6 months just for peace-of-mind. I think I'll celebrate with some BBQ'd ribs and a Scotch or 2. I hope and pray that all is going well for you. Glen Diagnosed at age 60 PSA went from 2.2 to 3.8 in 14 months 2 of 14 cores positive at 10% Gleason 6(3+3), negative DRE, neg. margins DaVinci surgery on 02/23/06 Last PSA 08/26/07 @ 18 months "0" Post edited to add title to thread… : ) Post Edited By Moderator (bluebird) : 2/26/2008 5:27:59 PM (GMT-7) Back to Top

GreenAcres Regular Member Date Joined Jul 2006 Total Posts : 474	Posted 2/26/2008 2:45 PM (GMT -6)
	There you are! Way to go on the big O! I still have your spaghetti sauce recipe tucked away, but barbecue and scotch will be a perfect celebration combo. Hope all is well there on all other fronts. Back to Top

Magaboo Veteran Member Date Joined Oct 2006 Total Posts : 1210	Posted 2/26/2008 3:34 PM (GMT -6)
	Hi spinbiscuit, Congratulations on your great (small) PSA test result. May you have many, many more in your future. I'm due for my 5th 3-month PSA test on the 12th of March and I'm hoping for a similar result to yours. All the best to you in your future. Magaboo Born Sept., 1936 PSA 7.9 Stage T1C -ve DRE Gleason's Score 3+4=7 2 of 8 positive Open RP 28 Nov 06 Post op staging T3 Gleasons still 3+4=7 Seminal vesicles and lymph nodes clear Catheter out 15 Dec 06 Dry since 11 Feb 07 All PSA tests in 2007 (4) = 0 Back to Top

Tony Crispino Veteran Member Date Joined Dec 2006 Total Posts : 8128	Posted 2/26/2008 3:56 PM (GMT -6)
	Hi Glen, Great to hear from you again. And Great report, indeed. Cheers! Hope you stop in again soon, with zeros of course. My undetectables began March 23 last year and that's coming up. (yea). God Bless you, buddy, and see again, soon. Tony Age 45 (44 when Dx) Pre-op PSA was 19.8 Surgery on Feb 16, 2007 Post-Op Pathology: Gleason 4+3=7, positive margins, Stage pT3b (Stage III) HT began in May, '07 with Lupron and Casodex 50mg IMRT radiation for 38 Treatments ending August 3, '07 Current PSA (1/08): <0.1 I will continue HT until May '09. Visit my Journey at: http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/tonycrispino STAY POSITIVE! Prostate Cancer Forum Moderator Back to Top

biker90 Veteran Member Date Joined Nov 2006 Total Posts : 1464	Posted 2/26/2008 5:02 PM (GMT -6)
	Hey Glen, Congrats on two years of big fat zeros!!! I will hit 19 months at my next test in July and am on 6 month testing. Feels great doesn't it.... Jim Age 73. Diagnosed 11/03/06. PSA 7.05. Stage T2C Gleason 3+3. RRP 12/7/06. Nerves and nodes okay. Catheter out on 12/13/06. Dry on 12/14/06. Pathological stage: T2C N0 MX. Gleason 3+4. PSAs from 1/3/07 - 1/17/08 0.00. Next PSA test on 7/17/08 http://biker090.spaces.live.com/ "Patience is essential, attitude is everything." Back to Top

Tim G Veteran Member Date Joined Jul 2006 Total Posts : 2300	Posted 2/26/2008 6:43 PM (GMT -6)
	Congrats, Glen, on your milestone! How did your physician determine to do annual PSAs from now on? I may have misunderstood my urologist, but I thought the protocol was every 6 months for life. Where's the spaghetti sauce recipe Green Acres referred to? Is it posted here somewhere? I'd love to have it if you don't mind posting it again or providing a link. Enjoy your ribs and scotch! Tim Age 59 PSA velocity quadrupled in 1 yr (0.6 to 2.6) 1 of 12 biopsies positive (5%) Open surgery June 2006 Cancer confined to one small area Gleason 5 PSA's non-detectable Back to Top

bluebird Veteran Member Date Joined May 2006 Total Posts : 2542	Posted 2/26/2008 8:03 PM (GMT -6)
	Yea ! ~ Glen 2-23-08 PSA !!!~~~>>> Woo~Hoo <<<~~~!!! Undetectable 2 years ~ cancer free!!! An anniversary really worth celebrating!!! With BBQ'd ribs and a Scotch or 2 and a HUGE HUG from the 3 of us!!! Cause for celebration!!!!! Definitely!!! What a wonderful day it is ~ each and every-day…. Enjoy it to the fullest. In Friendship ~ Lee & Buddy * * * * * * The ultimate “goal”… we all strive for… Thank you for continuing to share! It is very important to “all ”of us! This is a way of positive feedback… A way of showing others Hope… and a way of Sharing. J Caring is Sharing ~ Thank You for Sharing J Happy Every-Day Back to Top

bluebird Veteran Member Date Joined May 2006 Total Posts : 2542	Posted 2/26/2008 8:09 PM (GMT -6)
	*Dear Glen Our Spinbiscuit, This “Hug” is for “You” !!! ~ You “are” someone special ~ You have been on my mind for the past 4 days…. and it must all be because of the special bond we feel for you. That special friendship that formed at the beginning of “Our Journey” when we signed on in May 06. You allowed us to walk with you on “Your continued Journey” and with your family members… journeys added into the mix. What are friends for!!! It truly meant a lot to so many of us that you shared your stepping-stones with hernias (teaching all of us what to watch out for and what not to do!!!), your colon testing, Jane’s broken ankle, Jane’s moms passing, and your dad’s journey too! … You will forever be in our hearts. Glen ~ You are truly a “gentle”man and we are so blessed you have been a part of “Our Journey”. Thank you for walking with us on our path to HealingWell.** Thank you for continuing to touch lives ~ We love you ~ Lee & Buddy and Murphy too!! mama bluebird - Lee & Buddy… from North Carolina v We invite you to visit our personal thread: Click Here: “Our Journey” ~ Sharing is Caring April 3, 2006 53 on surgery day RRP / Radical Retropubic Prostatectomy PSA 4.6 Gleason 3+3=6 T2a Confined to Prostate 4th PSA 2-13-2008 (23 months) Less than 0.1 Non-Detectable :) Back to Top

norskie Regular Member Date Joined Jan 2007 Total Posts : 376	Posted 2/26/2008 9:06 PM (GMT -6)
	Glen Great news on your latest PSA test may you continue to have a lifetime of 0's Norskie norskie Age 49, PSA 6.22 on 9-26-06 Biopsy 11-01-06, 2 of 13 cores 10% cancer, 2 other cores abnormal Up-dated 20% prostate cancerous Gleason score 3+3=6 After Pathology report 4+3=7 a couple agressive Grade 5 cells found Da Vinci surgery 01-09-07 UW Madison Pathology Report- cancer 100 % capsual contained 1-18-07 Catheter removed 1-18-07 suffered bladder spasms Catheter reattached 1-18-07 Catheter removed 2nd time 1-24-07 1st & 2nd Post PSA Blood Test .1 and less - Undetectable 3nd Post PSA Blood Test 01-17-07 .3-Next action awaits me. Next PSA Scheduled and meeting with Radiologist set for 3-27-08 Incontenence-Pad free since end of May 07 4 1/2 months post surgery ED back to 95% prior to surgery - no medication required. Back to Top

creed_three Veteran Member Date Joined Jan 2007 Total Posts : 762	Posted 2/26/2008 9:18 PM (GMT -6)
	Wonderful news!! great to hear. So glad all is going well Glen. Creed_three (Lana & CJ) Husband CJ aged 50 yrs (49 years at diagnosis and surgery) PSA (2002) 2.1. PSA (2006) 3.5. 1 x (5%) core of 12 positive at biopsy. 11 cores negative. Open Radical Prostatectomy with nerve sparing, on Tuesday 17th April 2007 (Sydney, Australia). Gleeson 3 + 4 = 7. Cancer confined. 1st PSA 0.01 (June 07) 2nd PSA 0.02 (Oct 07) undetectable. Next PSA March 08. Back to Top

bluebird Veteran Member Date Joined May 2006 Total Posts : 2542	Posted 2/26/2008 9:23 PM (GMT -6)
	Spinbiscuits Spaghetti Sauce: Quote from previous thread..... This sauce is country chunky style cause in the old day there were no Cuisenarts. It goes as follows: 1/#10 can of diced tomatoes (or 1/3-1/2 peck blanched & Peeled Italian pear tomatoes aprox.) 1 1/2 lbs ground beef, pork, or turkey (my daughter won't eat beef) 1/2 garlic, aprox. 8-10 cloves 1 large - or 2 small green peppers, diced 2 celery stalks thinly sliced 3-5 leaves fresh basil leaves choped or dry frakes 1/4-1/3 tsp 1 large or 2 med. yellow onions, diced 1 8 oz. box of button mushrooms thick sliced (3 vert. slices per) 1-2 lb Italian sweet sauage or brats will do, fried (1 sausage per person) 1/4-1/3 tsp Italian seasoning 1/2 tsp Worchestershire Sauce 2-5 dashes of hot sauce (optional) 1/3 cup red wine for the aroma (optional) salt and pepper to taste in a 10-12 qt soup pot add 2 tbsp olive oil and bring to med-high heat sear the meat till just cooked. drain off fat. add the chopped veggies & minced garlic lightly braise till just barely glassy. Then add #10 can of diced tomatoes (wear a dark color for this manuver). Bring to a very slow simmer, then fold in the sliced mushrooms. Next add the seasonings stir occationally. After 1-2 hours the wine & hot sauce can be added if desired also add the fried Italian sausages. At this point you need to taste the sauce to see if it needs some tweeking. What ever you add should be done in small amounts. If the sauce is too acidic you can add a tbsp of light brown sugar or more to taste. In about another 2 hours the sauce will have thicken enough to serve, but the taste is always the best on the second day. Don't forget a loaf of Italian bread and Parmesan cheese. This recipe should serve 8-10 people. <end quote> Hey ~ Tim, We just had our 2nd year anniversary and we are also on the 1 year visit with our urologist but 6 month PSA testing will be faxed to him... :) Enjoy the sketti!!!! Back to Top

Mike A Regular Member Date Joined Feb 2007 Total Posts : 213	Posted 2/26/2008 9:52 PM (GMT -6)
	Way to go Glen! Keep those zeros coming! Two years is a milestone worth celebrating! May the ribs be succulent, and the scotch be Johnny Walker Blue! Best, Mike June 2005 - Age 53 PSA 4.8 at regular physical October 2005 - After several rounds of anti-biotics, PSA 5.2 at Urlogist November 2005 - Biopsy negative July 2006 - PSA 5.9 at regular Physical October 2006 - After several more rounds of anti-biotics PSA 8.1 November 2006 - Second biopsy - Positive December 2006 - Gleason (3+4=7), Tumor T1c, CT Scan and Bone Scan Negative January 2, 2007 Robotic Prostatectomy, University of Rochester Medical Center - Tumor confined but larger than thought, only one nerve able to be spared. Margins clear. February 2007 - Three to fo ur pads a day, no erection with viagara. April 2007 - First Post-Surgical PSA 0.02. Down to one pad a day.July, 2007 - Six Month Post-op: PSA 0.04 No change in ED. October, 2007 - Nine Month Post-op: PSA back down to 0.02!Almost totally dry! Only slight improvement in ED - Will try injections if not improved by next appointment. January 2008: One Year Post-OP PSA 0.02 still dripping, but improving. Tried 500 dose of MUSE for ED, no luck. Will try 1000. Back to Top

anniea Regular Member Date Joined May 2007 Total Posts : 234	Posted 2/27/2008 1:06 AM (GMT -6)
	Hi Glen, Great news on the 2 year PSA. Whew!!! what a releif!!!!!! Thanks for the receipe I am making Spaghetti, I showed it to Rick and he said that makes me crave spaghetti. I;m off to the kitchen. I hope you continue to have 0 PSA results for many years to come. Diana Rick & Diana Age 68/ 67@ Dx 6-30-06 PSA 2.54 1-22-07 PSA 4.98 1-26-07 PSA 5.09 Diag: 2-14-07 Gleason 8 Stage T1c PSA 5.09 Bone Scan 3-1-07 Clear 3-6-07 Triple Spinal Fusion (due to old back injury) Radical retropubic surgery 4-2-07 Post surgery Gleason 9 Stage T3a Positive margins 4-29-07 PSA 0.02 6-9-07 PSA 0.02 7-6-07 PSA 0.03 8-1-07 CT Scan & Chest X-Ray Clean 9-26-2007 PSA 0.07 11/1/07 PSA 0.1 11/30/07 PSA 0.12 01/31/2008 PSA 0.3 Back to Top

spinbiscuit Veteran Member Date Joined Apr 2006 Total Posts : 818	Posted 2/27/2008 7:42 AM (GMT -6)
	Thanks to: GreenAcres, Magaboo, Tony, Jim, Tim, Lee & Buddy, Norskie, Lana & CJ, Mike, and Diana for your kind thoughts and wishes. I hope that your recoveries are going well too, and that the "Sauce" is a success; by the way I prefer the regular thick spaghetti noddles (Jane likes the skinny stuff). I could'nt get myself to splurge on the JW blue, but I did crack open a bottle of Macallan's 12 (a gift from a friend). I think the word "Scotch" means smile & feel warm; too bad I didn't have a nice Cuban blunt to smoke with the scotch, but I quite smoking...sigh* ps. By the way I'm not sure why my doctor allowed me to opt for 1 year visits, but he was confident that 1 year visits were all that was necessary. Diagnosed at age 60 PSA went from 2.2 to 3.8 in 14 months 2 of 14 cores positive at 10% Gleason 6(3+3), negative DRE, neg. margins DaVinci surgery on 02/23/06 Last PSA 08/26/07 @ 18 months "0" Post Edited (spinbiscuit) : 2/27/2008 6:48:40 AM (GMT-7) Back to Top

phillysub Regular Member Date Joined Nov 2007 Total Posts : 64	Posted 2/27/2008 8:46 AM (GMT -6)
	Yeh!!!!! Another continuing member of the "ZERO CLUB"!! I hope to join this club on the first week of May (my 1st 3 month PSA check). Phillysub. Age: 51 Last PSA before diagnosis: 2.9 Diagnosed: Oct 2007 Gleason: 3+3=6 RALP surgery: Jan 23, 2008 (Dr Costas Lallas @ Thomas Jefferson Hospital in Philadelphia) 1st Post-op appt: Feb 1, 2008 (negative margins, cancer contained within the capsule) Back to Top

beachbum50 Regular Member Date Joined Sep 2007 Total Posts : 292	Posted 2/27/2008 10:23 AM (GMT -6)
	Fantastic news that we all hope will continue for you, enjoy the scotch, I'll smoke a Romeo Y Julieta Maduro Churchill in you honor on Saturday..I'm going to a very un PC Hunters Feast where everything from Turkey, deer, duck, bear, Brisket, six pigs on the spit, fresh oyster stew, clam chowder, and other exotic fare are served to a goup of hunters and farmers beside the sea, and raising over $100,000 for an orphanage..lot's of wild stories and good old fashioned male bonding! Beachbum Beachbum PSA 10 June 2007 Biopsy July 2, 16 of 16 samples positive T2C 3+3=6 prostate weighed 40 grams Di Venci 10/09/07, four hours on table, 3 in recovery Total time in Hospital: 29 hours Record for Dr. Lance, 65% of prostate had cancer, but NO spread, clean margins Clean nodes, First PSA at 5 weeks, UNDETECTABLE! Catheter out at seven days, dry from hour one! Second PSA 19 weeks post op, UNDETECTABLE 2/11/2008 The Lord has truly Blessed me. Back to Top

spinbiscuit Veteran Member Date Joined Apr 2006 Total Posts : 818	Posted 2/27/2008 10:25 AM (GMT -6)
	Good luck to you Phillysub; I'm sure you'll post the "Big Goose Egg" Diagnosed at age 60 PSA went from 2.2 to 3.8 in 14 months 2 of 14 cores positive at 10% Gleason 6(3+3), negative DRE, neg. margins DaVinci surgery on 02/23/06 Last PSA 08/26/07 @ 18 months "0" Back to Top

Tony Crispino Veteran Member Date Joined Dec 2006 Total Posts : 8128	Posted 2/27/2008 11:41 AM (GMT -6)
	Glen My surgeon told me BEFORE surgery, that when we were done and the cancer was gone that we would be testing every 6 months for at least ten years and likely the rest of my life. I trust that doctor very much and would have followed that protocol had the surgery gone well. I am doing well, however. Undetectable. Don't care much for the HT but I am healthy. Blue Label is OK, but when I have Scotch, rarely anymore, Black Label suffices. I gave up cigars when my PSA tested at 19, well before surgery. I still have some old Cubans I give away on occasion. As for my daily wine, I love a nice cab or merlot but for Lent I do not drink alcohol. Wouldn't you know it my surgical anniversary, and my first zero both fall during Lent. I am thinking next year I will give up clipping my toe nails. My wife gave up sweets. Huh? Next time she goes first when we are announcing our sacrafices. Sweets? Tony Age 45 (44 when Dx) Pre-op PSA was 19.8 Surgery on Feb 16, 2007 Post-Op Pathology: Gleason 4+3=7, positive margins, Stage pT3b (Stage III) HT began in May, '07 with Lupron and Casodex 50mg IMRT radiation for 38 Treatments ending August 3, '07 Current PSA (1/08): <0.1 I will continue HT until May '09. Visit my Journey at: http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/tonycrispino STAY POSITIVE! Prostate Cancer Forum Moderator Back to Top

Tim G Veteran Member Date Joined Jul 2006 Total Posts : 2300	Posted 2/27/2008 12:30 PM (GMT -6)
	Thanks for posting the Spaghetti Sauce recipe. It sounds delicious and I will have to try it soon. Here is another that I have used for years. It has a robust flavor and everyone in our house loves it! It's called 'Mama Rossi's' but I can't vouch for its being authentic Italian cuisine, since I'm an ethnic mongrel, not Italian. MAMA ROSSI’S SPAGHETTI SAUCE 1 lb ground round 3/4 lb ground Italian sausage 2 med onions,chopped 1 green pepper,chopped 2 stalks celery, chopped 4 cloves garlic,minced 6 sprigs parsley,chopped 1/2 cup (loose) porcini mushrooms (soak in a cup of warm water until soft) 1 can (4 oz) mushroom pieces and stems (use 8 oz mushrooms if porcini mushrooms not used) 2 tbs olive oil 1 can (6 oz) tomato paste 1 can ( 16 oz) tomatoes, finely chopped 38 oz tomato sauce 1 can (8 oz) tomato juice 1 cube butter 1 cup water 1 tsp beef bouillon base 1 tsp basil leaf, crumbled 1 heaping tsp rosemary, crumbled 1 tsp sage, crumbled 1 1/2 tbs Kitchen Bouquet 1 heaping tbs sugar 1 heaping tbs salt (if desired) 1 1/2 tsp pepper Saute the ground round, parsley and garlic. Drain and add to the pot. Fry the sausage as you did the ground round, drain and add to the pot. In the same skillet, heat the olive oil and saute the ground green pepper, onions and celery for about 5 minutes. Add that to the pot, too, along with the chopped mushrooms. Add all the remaining ingredients and simmer for an hour or two. If you want to be sure the suace is the thickness you prefer, you might add the cup of water listed above in slurps as needed. Age 59 PSA velocity quadrupled in 1 yr (0.6 to 2.6) 1 of 12 biopsies positive (5%) Open surgery June 2006 Cancer confined to one small area Gleason 5 PSA's non-detectable Back to Top

Tony Crispino Veteran Member Date Joined Dec 2006 Total Posts : 8128	Posted 2/27/2008 12:54 PM (GMT -6)
	Wow, Tim, That sounds good. I declare you an honorary Italian. Soon you will be talking with your hands about Ferraris! PS: Remember to add a "y" everyones name (i.e. Pauly, Petey, Vinny, etc.) , and never talk business at the dinner table! Tony Age 45 (44 when Dx) Pre-op PSA was 19.8 Surgery on Feb 16, 2007 Post-Op Pathology: Gleason 4+3=7, positive margins, Stage pT3b (Stage III) HT began in May, '07 with Lupron and Casodex 50mg IMRT radiation for 38 Treatments ending August 3, '07 Current PSA (1/08): <0.1 I will continue HT until May '09. Visit my Journey at: http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/tonycrispino STAY POSITIVE! Prostate Cancer Forum Moderator Post Edited (TC-LasVegas) : 2/27/2008 12:03:25 PM (GMT-7) Back to Top

myman Veteran Member Date Joined Feb 2007 Total Posts : 1219	Posted 2/27/2008 3:31 PM (GMT -6)
	Congrats on the PSA's Glen, that's what we all want to see! Gonna make your sauce and make a toast to you. Wishing you many more zero's, Susan Husband Diagnosed 11/17/05 Age: 63 PSA: 7.96 No Symptoms 2/09/06: LRP - Post Pathology - Gleason 4+3 Stage T2b NO MX 3 mo. PSA: 11.8 Stage T3a 6 mo. PSA: 18.8 Stage IV Systemic w/ distant lymph node involvement Start HT - Lupron 3 mo. shots 12/06/06: PSA 0.8 03/07/07: PSA 0.3 06/06/07: PSA 0.1 09/05/07: PSA 0.1 11/27/07: PSA 0.1 Back to Top

Tim G Veteran Member Date Joined Jul 2006 Total Posts : 2300	Posted 2/27/2008 4:39 PM (GMT -6)
	TC-LasVegas said... Wow, Tim, That sounds good. I declare you an honorary Italian. Soon you will be talking with your hands about Ferraris! PS: Remember to add a "y" everyones name (i.e. Pauly, Petey, Vinny, etc.) , and never talk business at the dinner table! Tony Thanks for the honorary title, Tony. It means a lot coming from a real Italian! Your (Italian) friend, Timmy Age 59 PSA velocity quadrupled in 1 yr (0.6 to 2.6) 1 of 12 biopsies positive (5%) Open surgery June 2006 Cancer confined to one small area Gleason 5 PSA's non-detectable Back to Top

spinbiscuit Veteran Member Date Joined Apr 2006 Total Posts : 818	Posted 2/27/2008 8:42 PM (GMT -6)
	Thanks Tim, Phillysub, Susan, & Tony I'm going to try Tim's spaghetti sauce recipe too; it sounds delicious. Tim, can I substitute ground turkey for the beef? My daughter won't eat beef (maybe I brought the wrong kid home from the hospital). I really miss those cigars, but I guess it's just as well because I would find it very difficult to set fire to anything that cost $50 or more. Tony; I'm drinking wine now too. Jane got me started a couple of years ago, and I'll have 1 glass of red wine at dinner. I save the Scotch for special occasions. I'm living so healthy now it makes me sick. Diagnosed at age 60 PSA went from 2.2 to 3.8 in 14 months 2 of 14 cores positive at 10% Gleason 6(3+3), negative DRE, neg. margins DaVinci surgery on 02/23/06 Last PSA 08/26/07 @ 18 months "0" Back to Top

Swimom Veteran Member Date Joined Apr 2006 Total Posts : 1732	Posted 2/27/2008 9:29 PM (GMT -6)
	Conrats Spin! Did I read they YOU, are living healthy..LOL! Well, that PSA says you are but what about them sprinkles :>) Swim Back to Top

Cedar Chopper Regular Member Date Joined Mar 2007 Total Posts : 432	Posted 2/29/2008 4:02 PM (GMT -6)
	Glen, I'm going to celebrate all this good news and fix some spaghetti (and maybe sniff the Scotch and a Dominican... ...more likely plan trips to Scotland and the Dominican Republic!) right now. C^Cedar ICTHUS! 2 Years of PSA between 4 and 5.5 + Biopsy 23DEC06 Only 5 percent cancer in one of 8 samples. + Gleeson 3+3=6 OPEN R P 16FEB07 at age 54. 1+" tumor - touching inside edge of gland. + Confined. :) Pad Free @ 14 weeks. PSA: 6 mths <.003 :) 9mths <.008 :) 1 Yr <.008 :) At 1 yr, ED treated with 100mg Viagra Often - 5 Year Colonoscopy 19FEB08: Clear! ^{Texas Hill Country}^{FRESH Produce Department Manager -}^{Have you had your 5 colors today?}_{My Threads?} Cedar Chopper's Page & Updates ~ Radical Prostatectomy ~ Feb '07 "Zen and the Art of Orchestral Erectile Function" "Zen and the Art of Symphonic Continence" Back to Top

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