Opinions on this injection suggestion from my urologist

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DanmanBob
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 467
   Posted 4/27/2008 4:55 PM (GMT -6)   
As posted a few days ago, I had my first injection Thursday of 0.2ml 30/1 bimix.  Got an 80% erection that lasted around an hour.  Goal was to learn, which I did, so mission accomplished.
 
Urologist suggested I stay at 0.2ml for the next 3 or 4 times, to see if 80% would turn into 100%, so I am doing as he recommended.  However, I do not recall anyone here who started lower than they needed staying with it for several shots before upping the dosage.
 
My perception, which might be off base, is that most here who started with too small a dosage for their situation immediately bumped it up by 0.05ml or so until they got the right level.
 
Thoughts on any of this?
Danman Bob, Born 1951
Nerve-sparing, open prostate surgery November 13, 2007
Gleason score 9, PSA 14; Biopsy result - 9 of 12 sticks showed cancer
Post-op pathology stated that cancer was confined to the prostate
Unrelated surgery January 2008 delayed incontinence recovery, which is now showing good signs of improvement (fraction of a pad a day as of late April 2008)
100 MG Viagra 3 times a week beginning December 2007
Osbon Erec-Aid Esteem manual pump for therapy beginning mid-February 2008
30 MG papaverine/1 MG phentolamine bimix injections beginning late April 2008
Five week post-op PSA 0.2, five month post-op PSA 0.1, next test August 2008


Tamu
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2006
Total Posts : 626
   Posted 4/27/2008 5:38 PM (GMT -6)   
DanmanBob,

The erection you get in the doctor's office at the dosage they give you will get firmer with stimulation and foreplay. I would not up the dose until after you have tried it during sex. The 0.2 ml is actually a good dose level. I started at .10 ml and up it in .05 ml increments. I now use 0.3 to 0.35 ml. I went higher but I did not get any harder it just lasted longer. This is especially true when you first start out with Bimix.

Tamu
Diagnosed 7/6/06, 1 of 10 core samples, 40%,Stage T1c, Gleason 3+3
Da Vinci on 11/01/06, Catheter out on 11/13/06
56 Years Old
Post Op Path, Gleason 3+3, Approx. 5% of prostate involved
Prostate Confined, margins clear
Undetectable PSA on 12/18/06, 6/25/07, 1/8/08
No more pads as of 1/13/07
Began injections in April '07
 


biker90
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 1464
   Posted 4/27/2008 5:44 PM (GMT -6)   
Hey Danman,

I'm on Trimix but I think the experiences are comparable. My doc started me with way too much. Had one that lasted 6 1/2 hours - not pleasant.

A little stimulation before injecting helps bring it up. Seems like ya gotta wake junior up before you shoot him. Also L-Arginine and Viagra about 2 - 3 hours before the shot helps. I believe that when it comes to injecting my tender part, less is better. So I only use a very small amount of Trimix - about .02 - .04 cc. As I have been healing, I found that I could use less so we all will have different experiences as we get better. Finally, I found that after I got used to the shots, the anxiety lessened and it became easier to do the dirty deed and get the desired results.

Doctors really need to realize that we are all different when it comes to ED recovery. They tend to prescribe a "one size fits all" treatment plan. We have to take control of our recovery, experiment and find out own path through this maze.

Good luck...

Jim


Age 73. Diagnosed 11/03/06. PSA 7.05. Stage T2C Gleason 3+3.
RRP 12/7/06. Nerves and nodes okay.
Catheter out on 12/13/06.  Dry on 12/14/06.
Pathological stage: T2C N0 MX. Gleason 3+4.
50 mg Viagra + 1000 mg L-Arginine + .03 cc Trimix = Excellent Results
PSAs from  1/3/07 - 1/17/08 0.00. 
Next PSA test on 7/17/08
"Patience is essential, attitude is everything."
 
 


Piano
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 847
   Posted 4/27/2008 9:16 PM (GMT -6)   

I started off well with Bimix doses of 0.3ml, 0.2 and 0.15 and 0.25 in that order. The 0.15 was a failure, but the others were good, with the 0.25 being a little better than the 0.2.

However, since then, I have had three failures at 0.2, 0.25 and 0.3. So my plan is to stick at 0.3 for at least the next two times, since that worked well the first time -- almost too well (priapism).

I suffer "injection anxiety" so that may be a factor too -- although the last time wasn't so bad.

I agree with Biker90 -- we need to experiment and find what works for us as individuals. I think it a good idea to boost the dose cautiously -- I would much rather have a failure than priapism.


Age 63. Other than cancer, in good health
Left hemi-colectomy April 2006 (colon cancer)
PSA 5.7, Gleason 4+5=9
RRP 7 March 2008, non nerve sparing
Histology showed clear margins and lymph nodes
Two nights in hospital
Catheter and staples out after 7 days
Continent, no pads needed from the get-go
No erections (of course!)
Experimenting with VED and Bimix
 


James C.
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4463
   Posted 4/28/2008 9:08 AM (GMT -6)   
For those having random failures, such as I have experienced, I know I may sound like a broken record, but here's what I found worked for me.  If you do some pre-plumping with the pump or manually if that works for you, you increase the size of the cavities, start blood flow into the same and enable faster spread of the drug within the cavities, rather than possibily letting the drug run out into the body before it is absorded into tissue.  A cold start with injecting doesn't work for me, but a pre-injection pump to expand things does work and dependably at that.  Just a thought.....your experience may differ, etc, etc....lol

James C. 
 
Help support the forums so they can support you:  http://www.healingwell.com/donate 
 
Age 60 
4/19/07   PSA 7.6, referred to Urologist, recheck 6.7
7/11/07   Biopsy- 16 core samples, size of gland around 76 cc. Staging pT2c
7/17/07   Path report:  3 of 16 PCa, 5% involved, left lobe , GS 3/3:6. 
9/24/07   (Open) Retropubic Radical Prostatectomy performed 
9/26/07   Post-op Path Report: GS 3+3=6 Staging pT2c, 110gms, margins clear
10/15/07  ED- begin 50mg Viagra and Vacurect pump nightly, Fully continent
1/14/08  Caverject started/stopped, aching.  2/24/08 .5ml Bimix started-success
3/24/08   ED- 6 mts.-Viagra, pump, no response- Bimix continues
Post-surgery PSA's:  3 mt:0, 6 mt:0,


DanmanBob
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 467
   Posted 4/28/2008 2:27 PM (GMT -6)   

Biker Jim and James C,

Interesting that both of you have better results with some pre-stimulation.  Will keep that in mind as my experimentation continues....along with the post-stimulation, too, of course...lol.

Many thanks....DanMan Bob


Danman Bob, Born 1951
Nerve-sparing, open prostate surgery November 13, 2007
Gleason score 9, PSA 14; Biopsy result - 9 of 12 sticks showed cancer
Post-op pathology stated that cancer was confined to the prostate
Unrelated surgery January 2008 delayed incontinence recovery, which is now showing good signs of improvement (fraction of a pad a day as of late April 2008)
100 MG Viagra 3 times a week beginning December 2007
Osbon Erec-Aid Esteem manual pump for therapy beginning mid-February 2008
30 MG papaverine/1 MG phentolamine bimix injections beginning late April 2008
Five week post-op PSA 0.2, five month post-op PSA 0.1, next test August 2008


Piano
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 847
   Posted 4/28/2008 7:28 PM (GMT -6)   

James C -- how much plumping do you do?  I expect you don't want to be at all erect at injection time because of the risk of bleeding from the cavity. I find that about 5 mins after after a full erection with the VED, I am still a bit plump and with a little extra length so that may be "the time".

I have been injecting close to the base, so next time will try for a little forward of the half way point. Working on the theory that it is a greater distance before the drug can escape via the exit veins.
 
On a related topic, has anyone tried injections with a constriction ring? That should encourage the drug to linger longer in the cavities where it will do the most good. Maybe?

Age 63. Other than cancer, in good health
Left hemi-colectomy April 2006 (colon cancer)
PSA 5.7, Gleason 4+5=9
RRP 7 March 2008, non nerve sparing
Histology showed clear margins and lymph nodes
Two nights in hospital
Catheter and staples out after 7 days
Continent, no pads needed from the get-go
No erections (of course!)
Experimenting with VED and Bimix
 


DanmanBob
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 467
   Posted 4/28/2008 8:09 PM (GMT -6)   

My doctor said to inject in the mid-shaft area....not near the top and not near the base...on the sides of course.

I believe James C just plumps up a little bit....not anywhere near full erection, before injecting, but I may be misconstruing what he has said previously.

DanMan Bob


Danman Bob, Born 1951
Nerve-sparing, open prostate surgery November 13, 2007
Gleason score 9, PSA 14; Biopsy result - 9 of 12 sticks showed cancer
Post-op pathology stated that cancer was confined to the prostate
Unrelated surgery January 2008 delayed incontinence recovery, which is now showing good signs of improvement (fraction of a pad a day as of late April 2008)
100 MG Viagra 3 times a week beginning December 2007
Osbon Erec-Aid Esteem manual pump for therapy beginning mid-February 2008
30 MG papaverine/1 MG phentolamine bimix injections beginning late April 2008
Five week post-op PSA 0.2, five month post-op PSA 0.1, next test August 2008


James C.
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4463
   Posted 4/29/2008 9:04 AM (GMT -6)   

Piano, I just pump up, hold vacuum for 30 seconds or so, then let down , repeating a couple times, after arranging my alcohol patch, loaded syringe and such at hand.  My aim is to infuse tissue with blood and stretch the cavities some.  My veinous valve funtion is still non-functioning, so any blood in runs right back out.  I do clamp down on the base of the penis with my fingers to hold the drug in while doing the 'slight massaging', that seems to help keep it in place and diffuse it throughout the cavities.

I have used a constricting ring a couple times, it works fine.  Just don't choose one so small it cuts off the blood flow as it holds in the drug.  You still need blood flow into the penis to fill it as the drug works on the cavities, remember,,,,lol

I had another failure last night, I think I got it into the penile skin, rather than the cavity.  Little response, with slightly swollen skin this morning.  That seems to be my biggest failure cause.  I don't know if I flinch and don't insert deeply enough or pull back after making the stick or what.  It always occurs on the left side, which is the more difficult side for my right hand.


DanmanBob
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 467
   Posted 4/29/2008 9:27 AM (GMT -6)   

JamesC,

Based upon your latest post, I think you might be a candidate for an autoinjector.  The one I purchased is inexpensive ($28 from CVS...I can get you the order info here or on email if you need it to give to the pharmacy) and easy to use with left or right hand.

I have only used it once so far....on my left side....but it workede quite well.

DanMan


Danman Bob, Born 1951
Nerve-sparing, open prostate surgery November 13, 2007
Gleason score 9, PSA 14; Biopsy result - 9 of 12 sticks showed cancer
Post-op pathology stated that cancer was confined to the prostate
Unrelated surgery January 2008 delayed incontinence recovery, which is now showing good signs of improvement (fraction of a pad a day as of late April 2008)
100 MG Viagra 3 times a week beginning December 2007
Osbon Erec-Aid Esteem manual pump for therapy beginning mid-February 2008
30 MG papaverine/1 MG phentolamine bimix injections beginning late April 2008
Five week post-op PSA 0.2, five month post-op PSA 0.1, next test August 2008


James C.
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4463
   Posted 4/29/2008 10:38 AM (GMT -6)   
Why not post it (injector info/link) here so others can find it and for future references?  Although my email is open, also. :-)
James C. 
 
Help support the forums so they can support you:  http://www.healingwell.com/donate 
 
Age 60 
4/19/07   PSA 7.6, referred to Urologist, recheck 6.7
7/11/07   Biopsy- 16 core samples, size of gland around 76 cc. Staging pT2c
7/17/07   Path report:  3 of 16 PCa, 5% involved, left lobe , GS 3/3:6. 
9/24/07   (Open) Retropubic Radical Prostatectomy performed 
9/26/07   Post-op Path Report: GS 3+3=6 Staging pT2c, 110gms, margins clear
10/15/07  ED- begin 50mg Viagra and Vacurect pump nightly, Fully continent
1/14/08  Caverject started/stopped, aching.  2/24/08 .5ml Bimix started-success
3/24/08   ED- 6 mts.-Viagra, pump, no response- Bimix continues
Post-surgery PSA's:  3 mt:0, 6 mt:0,


Piano
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 847
   Posted 4/29/2008 6:34 PM (GMT -6)   

James C: Thanks for the plumping up tips -- I'll be trying them next time. Probably tomorrow or even today if I get lucky :-) I'll be using 0.3ml Bimix which has worked well previously, but failed last time. Yikes, I'm starting to get nervous already!

Last time I took a hot shower while waiting for the drugs to take effect. In retrospect a bad move -- the heat makes veins open up, so would probably flush the drugs away more quickly. I won't be doing that again.

 


Age 63. Other than cancer, in good health
Left hemi-colectomy April 2006 (colon cancer)
PSA 5.7, Gleason 4+5=9
RRP 7 March 2008, non nerve sparing
Histology showed clear margins and lymph nodes
Two nights in hospital
Catheter and staples out after 7 days
Continent, no pads needed from the get-go
No erections (of course!)
Experimenting with VED and Bimix
 


DanmanBob
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 467
   Posted 4/29/2008 7:08 PM (GMT -6)   

JamesC,

Here is the URL for the link....

http://www.bddiabetes.com/us/main.aspx?cat=2&id=421

Note at the bottom of that page the NDC/HRI #, which is what the pharmacy uses to order it if it is not on their shelves.  In my case, it took 24 hours from order to delivery....and I went back by and picked it up for $28, as I recall.  I am using it with the 5/16 inch, 31 gauge BD Ultra-Fine II syringes/needles.  Can also use it with other BD syringe/needle sizes....and it includes two spacers if you wish to customize the length.  For example, use a 1/8 inch spacer to reduce the effective length of a 1/2 inch needle to something slightly shorter.

Simple to use, even on the left side for right-handed folks, and inexpensive.

Good luck.


Danman Bob, Born 1951
Nerve-sparing, open prostate surgery November 13, 2007
Gleason score 9, PSA 14; Biopsy result - 9 of 12 sticks showed cancer
Post-op pathology stated that cancer was confined to the prostate
Unrelated surgery January 2008 delayed incontinence recovery, which is now showing good signs of improvement (fraction of a pad a day as of late April 2008)
100 MG Viagra 3 times a week beginning December 2007
Osbon Erec-Aid Esteem manual pump for therapy beginning mid-February 2008
30 MG papaverine/1 MG phentolamine bimix injections beginning late April 2008
Five week post-op PSA 0.2, five month post-op PSA 0.1, next test August 2008


Gary H
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2008
Total Posts : 34
   Posted 5/3/2008 6:30 PM (GMT -6)   
I don't mead to butt in on this topic but I get a funny feeling in my gut thinking about putting a needle anywhere near junior? how bad is it?

 Age 48
 PSA 46 Oct (07)
 Gleason 3+4=7
 Biopsi 11 of 12 pos.
 DaVinci Jan 08 Dr W. Johnston
 Evanston Northwestern Illinois
 Post Op  PSA .7
 Started Lupron April 1st
 Radiation June (08)?????


James C.
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4463
   Posted 5/3/2008 6:53 PM (GMT -6)   
After the first time, it gets much easier.  Most of us have been impotent long enough that the trade off of a little pain for so much to gain that we willingly do it and look forward to it.  The first time for me took a lot of nerve, but was just a little bit of a sting.  I think that ws from not allowing the alcohol to dry before injecting.  Each one was less difficult, now it's second nature and I don't think about it.  The needles are tiny and easily managed.
 
James C.

Gary H
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2008
Total Posts : 34
   Posted 5/3/2008 7:02 PM (GMT -6)   
Boy when I was young when you get to the point were it's "time" you slipped out the comdoms, now you pull out the needle?
 Age 48
 PSA 46 Oct (07)
 Gleason 3+4=7
 Biopsi 11 of 12 pos.
 DaVinci Jan 08 Dr W. Johnston
 Evanston Northwestern Illinois
 Post Op  PSA .7
 Started Lupron April 1st
 Radiation June (08)?????

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