Alright I give up on diet? Too much conflicting research.

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ChrisR
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Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 814
   Posted 5/2/2008 6:46 PM (GMT -6)   
First, I gave up all dairy.  I went to soy products because my Dr. and some research said soy had some benefits.
 
See this link.
 
 
 
What can we eat?  Everything is poison.   Can we still drink water.
 
Very frustrated.....

livinadream
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Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 1382
   Posted 5/2/2008 7:07 PM (GMT -6)   
I can understand your frustration. I to felt that way, then when I went to The Cancer Treatment Center of America they made diet make sense to some one as simple as me. Obviously fruits and veggies are healthy, wheat bread, sea salt, sugar in the raw, fish (baked), and many of the things you currently eat just prepared in different ways. For me radically changing my diet was not a good option, however the approach they gave me was workable. My PSA is down, my energy is up, so I am not complaining. A good vitamin regime is important as well.
Thanks for writing, and if I can help further don't hesitate to email me.

peace to you
dale
My PSA at diagnosis was 16.3
age 46 (current)
My gleason score from prostate was 4+5=9 and from the lymph nodes was 4+4=8
I had 44 IMRT's
Casodex
Currently on Lupron
I go to The Cancer Treatment Center of America
Married with two kids
 


biker90
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 1464
   Posted 5/2/2008 8:57 PM (GMT -6)   
Yep Chris, very confusing. Besides what's good for you today might kill you tomorrow according to the "experts". I've eaten the same stuff since I was a kid. (No, my PCa came from my dad's genes.) Meat, potatoes and fresh vegetables (not "veggies") and fruit and all in moderation.

I will likely die from what I eat because what I eat keeps me alive and I'll just get older that way and die from old age. By the way, the folks that insist on eating sticks and twigs will do the same thing.

Jim
Age 73. Diagnosed 11/03/06. PSA 7.05. Stage T2C Gleason 3+3.
RRP 12/7/06. Nerves and nodes okay.
Catheter out on 12/13/06.  Dry on 12/14/06.
Pathological stage: T2C N0 MX. Gleason 3+4.
50 mg Viagra + 1000 mg L-Arginine + .03 cc Trimix = Excellent Results
PSAs from  1/3/07 - 1/17/08 0.00. 
Next PSA test on 7/17/08
"Patience is essential, attitude is everything."
 
 


taiping
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 62
   Posted 5/3/2008 1:46 AM (GMT -6)   

I am also concerned and frustrated with the lack of scientific evidence concerning diet and vitamin supplements. A recent post on Mercola advocated the benefits of Vitamin K2 for PCa, and guess what, you can buy the supplement on the Mercola web site!!

There's a European study on the relationship between cancer and nutrition called the EPIC study at http://www.iarc.fr/epic/Sup-default.html

The initial results for postate cancer say . . .

Prostate cancer etiology:  We have shown that similarly to breast cancer, prostate cancer risk is not related to fruit and vegetable consumption

I try to follow the Budwig Protocol (flax seed oil + cottage cheese, and other recommendations) but without clinical trials, I wonder if it will do any good.

Steve

-------------------------


Diagnosed: June 2007. Aged 61. PSA 19.6. DRE negative.
Biopsy: June 2007; 2 cores of 18 positive.
MRI and Bone Scan: Negative.
Pathology: 5% of 1 core, "Small focus" in another core +ve.
Gleason 3 + 3 = 6.
Clinical: PCa considered confined to prostate. Stage T1c.
Treatment: After considering RP and HD Brachy, decided on Intermittent Androgen Blockade Therapy for 1-year, using ZOLADEX, CASODEX 150 mg/day, AVODART 0.5 mg/day. Start PSA 19.2.
Current Status: PSA 0.057.
---------------


goody5
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2008
Total Posts : 66
   Posted 5/3/2008 6:09 AM (GMT -6)   
We are still in the beginning stages but we are following diet guidlines from Dr. Snuffy Myers book and some other article we have found.
Here are just a few
No Canola oil ( I don't know why)
Drink green tea and pomagranite juice (sometimes we put them together :-) )
No Chondroiten (sp?)
Taking vitamin D3
Of course eating really healthy and staying active for bone health.
Cheryl
Father diagnosed 13 years ago @ age 63
Watchful waiting until PSA jumped from 6 to 10
Cancer found in 1 core
Gleason score 6
Seeds implanted
PSA has been low since (don't know exact numbers)
 
Uncle (mother's brother) age 68
PSA jump from 2 to 8 in 18 months (2/08)
DRE was normal (2/08)
Biopsy (3/08) Cancer found
Bone scan (clear) 
Fine Needle Lymph Biopsy (Positive)
Gleason Score
(2) 4 + 3
(1) 3 + 3
(4) 4 + 3
7 of 12 cores positive
Waiting for MRI and another CAT Scan before radiation
Started Casodex and Eligard
 
 


Swimom
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 1732
   Posted 5/3/2008 7:28 AM (GMT -6)   
Chris,

Don't get a worried about a silly ole diet. Concentrate on being healthy, period. For heaven's sake...just eat a healthy diet reasonable in fat, fiber, fresh fruits and vegies with enough good protein (including some red meat if you like) to help keep muscles strong. Taking red meat out of our seniors diets has helped create such a horrible generation of dementia sufferers in th last 30 years. DO NOT lose sight of brain health on the way to better physical health! Eat organic whenever possible. Then.... toss all this with a dressing made of stretches, some cardio and weight bearing excersise and you'll all be just fine. If ya'll want an easy way to learn how to eat, check out Sparkpeople.com. Good place for the newly interested health watcher. Good Luck.

Swim
 


taiping
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 62
   Posted 5/4/2008 6:29 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi Selmer,
 
You ask why I'm following a diet (Budwig Protocol) that has no recognised published studies to back up the claims.
It's a very good point. Dr Johanna Budwig (1908-2003) was a German biochemist with a doctorate in Physics who was the chief expert for drugs and fats for the German Federal Institute for Fats Research. It is said she was nominated for a Noble prize no less than seven times.
It does appear that many of her recommendations which were made 50 years ago have now become accepted -- for example, she recommended regular sun baths. Also, she recommended avoiding processed foods, particularly meats, and trans fats, while increasing the amount of fresh vegetables and fruits.
You can find a great deal more info at . . .
 
 
I have a degree in Physics myself, so perhaps that's why I am prepared to give the Budwig Protocol a try. I don't trust doctors or the pharma industry.
May I ask what lifestyle/diet changes you have made to slow potential PCa?
 
Steve
------------
 
 
 
 
Diagnosed: June 2007. Aged 61. PSA 19.6. DRE negative.
Biopsy: June 2007; 2 cores of 18 positive.
MRI and Bone Scan: Negative.
Pathology: 5% of 1 core, "Small focus" in another core +ve.
Gleason 3 + 3 = 6.
Clinical: PCa considered confined to prostate. Stage T1c.
Treatment: After considering RP and HD Brachy, decided on Intermittent Androgen Blockade Therapy for 1-year, using ZOLADEX, CASODEX 150 mg/day, AVODART 0.5 mg/day. Start PSA 19.2.
Current Status: PSA 0.057 (April 2008).
---------------


Piano
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 847
   Posted 5/4/2008 3:39 PM (GMT -6)   
Since my brushes with cancer, I have made some changes (mainly my wife's doing):
* Less red meat
* Less animal fat
* More fruit and vegetables
* More fiber
* Two brazil nuts every day (just recently, apparently high in selenium)
 
Our modern diets can't be that bad -- the figures that I have seen show that average life expectancy is rising. Maybe with a better diet, it would rise faster. Yes there are conflicting studies, so I am following a path of moderation. I still eat a bit of everything that happens to cross my path, especially chocolate-caramel fudge slice :-)

Age 63. Other than cancer, in good health
Left hemi-colectomy April 2006 (colon cancer)
PSA 5.7, Gleason 4+5=9
RRP 7 March 2008, non nerve sparing
Histology showed clear margins and lymph nodes
Two nights in hospital
Catheter and staples out after 7 days
Continent, no pads needed from the get-go
No erections (of course!)
Experimenting with VED and Bimix
 


taiping
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 62
   Posted 5/4/2008 8:00 PM (GMT -6)   

Hi Selmer,

Thanks for your interesting and comprehensive reply. I have lived for many years in Thailand, so I'm not on an American style diet but I still got PCa. Just a couple of points . . .

Have a look at Mercola.com about soy products. He is very much against them.

I totally agree with you about the lack of science about the Budwig Protocol but I like to keep an open mind about it. Someone on the web site I mentioned previously has colon cancer and declined surgery or other radical treatments, and seems to be progressing quite well with the Budwig Protocol. Of course, anecdotal evidence is not science, and I have raised this point several times on the web site.

All the best,

Steve

 

 

 


Diagnosed: June 2007. Aged 61. PSA 19.6. DRE negative.
Biopsy: June 2007; 2 cores of 18 positive.
MRI and Bone Scan: Negative.
Pathology: 5% of 1 core, "Small focus" in another core +ve.
Gleason 3 + 3 = 6.
Clinical: PCa considered confined to prostate. Stage T1c.
Treatment: After considering RP and HD Brachy, decided on Intermittent Androgen Blockade Therapy for 1-year, using ZOLADEX, CASODEX 150 mg/day, AVODART 0.5 mg/day. Start PSA 19.2.
Current Status: PSA 0.057 (April 2008).
---------------


ChrisR
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 814
   Posted 5/4/2008 8:17 PM (GMT -6)   

Taiping,

I noticed you are only doing H/T therapy.  Why?  I have a the same type of cancer diagnosis as you.  All my slides came back "small focus".  PSA 2.75 (3/08)  2.4 (11/03).  Very low velocity for 4 years.  Are you waiting on treatment.  Will H/T keep PCa at bay?

Thanks

Chris


taiping
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 62
   Posted 5/4/2008 9:42 PM (GMT -6)   
Hello Chris,
 
I'm doing Intermittent Triple Androgen Blockade Therapy because I'm not convinced of the benefits (survival and quality of life issues) of a Radical Prostatectomy, Radiation Therapy, or Brachytherapy. TAB is not a cure for PCa but I hope to keep it in check long enough for better treatments to come along. I would be the first to admit that TAB is definitely NOT a mainstream first line treatment for PCa like mine. For more info on TAB see . . .
 
 
Or see Bob Leibowitz web site, and read through the Publications at . . .
 
 
Correction to my previous post. The web forum for the Budwig Protocol is at . . .
 
 
I hope of the above links make for some very interesting reading, even if you don't agree with all the statements.
 
Steve
 
 
 
 
Diagnosed: June 2007. Aged 61. PSA 19.6. DRE negative.
Biopsy: June 2007; 2 cores of 18 positive.
MRI and Bone Scan: Negative.
Pathology: 5% of 1 core, "Small focus" in another core +ve.
Gleason 3 + 3 = 6.
Clinical: PCa considered confined to prostate. Stage T1c.
Treatment: After considering RP and HD Brachy, decided on Intermittent Androgen Blockade Therapy for 1-year, using ZOLADEX, CASODEX 150 mg/day, AVODART 0.5 mg/day. Start PSA 19.2.
Current Status: PSA 0.057 (April 2008).
---------------


taiping
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 62
   Posted 5/4/2008 9:54 PM (GMT -6)   
Chris,
 
I would like to add that in my case "Watchful Waiting" was not an option because of my high and rising PSA of 19.6.
I note your PSA seems low and stable.
After 9 months of TAB my PSA is now 0.057.
 
Steve
------------
Diagnosed: June 2007. Aged 61. PSA 19.6. DRE negative.
Biopsy: June 2007; 2 cores of 18 positive.
MRI and Bone Scan: Negative.
Pathology: 5% of 1 core, "Small focus" in another core +ve.
Gleason 3 + 3 = 6.
Clinical: PCa considered confined to prostate. Stage T1c.
Treatment: After considering RP and HD Brachy, decided on Intermittent Triple Androgen Blockade Therapy for 1-year, using ZOLADEX, CASODEX 150 mg/day, AVODART 0.5 mg/day. Start PSA 19.2.
Current Status: PSA 0.057 (April 2008).
---------------


IdahoSurvivor
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 1015
   Posted 5/4/2008 10:20 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi Chris,
 
Thanks for starting the topic.  Of course, the jury is still out how diet encourages or discourages the development of prostate cancer.
 
From what I've read, the general consensus appears to be to enjoy a "heart healthy" diet.  There is a lot of literature on that topic in book stores, libraries, and on the net.
 
I went to a lower-fat, higher fruit and vegetable content diet.  I drink 100% pomegranate juice (8 oz/day).  I still eat meat (usually fish or chicken), but not as much as prior to my dx.  I use non-fat milk on my cereal and I have cut out a lot of sugar.  All seems to match the heart-healthy model for diet.
 
In addition, I do eat 2 Brazil nuts every other day for natural selenium intake.   I do not take a lot of vitamins in favor of getting the vitamins from food, instead.
 
After seeing a lot of negative indicators in the literature, I avoid flax supplements.
 
Best regards,

Barry ~ (a.k.a. "Idaho") - Prostate Cancer Forum Moderator

 

Da Vinci Surgery July 31, 2007… 54 on surgery day
PSA 4.3  Gleason 3+3=6  T2a  Confined to Prostate

1st PSA  09/11/2007  <0.04 (undetectable)

2nd PSA 12/10/2007  <0.04

3rd PSA  03/17/2008  <0.04

My web site: http://pca-info.blogspot.com


taiping
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 62
   Posted 5/5/2008 7:29 AM (GMT -6)   

Hello Selmer,

Thanks again for your interesting insights. However, please do not be concerned about how I read certain sites like Mercola because I'm very well aware of the financial interests involved, and take everything with a pinch of salt, or perhaps I should say a sip of soy.

I only brought up Mercola's opinion of soy because you said you were consuming it. Maybe you were not aware of the negative opinions about soy products. There seems to be conflicting evidence on the merits ot otherwise of soy so I don't know what to believe.

I'm a Brit who's lived in Thailand for the last 18 years, married to a Thai with a 12-year old daughter. My wife cooks Thai food for me most days, but as you say, diet changes later in life are no guarantee of progress of PCa.

about my choice of treatment, I decided on hormone therapy after reading several books with differing opinions and scouring the Internet. Of course my urologist suggested a RP, and when I asked for other options he referred me to a radiation oncologist who recommended high dose brachytherapy with external radiation. I travelled to Singapore to see Dr Steven Tucker who was involved with the ASCO presentation I referred to previously, and after a long discussion decided on Intermittent Triple Androgen Blockade Therapy lasting one year. "Watchful Waiting" was not an option because of the high PSA. I figured I could go back to other treatments if TAB was not successful or there were undesirable side effects, but there's no going back with a RP, RT, or Bracky.

The urologist had tried a course of anti-biotics to lower the PSA level, and was reluctant to recommend a biopsy because of the risks involved, particularly the 5% risk of infection, but since the PSA remained stubbonly high we eventually agreed to a biopsy which turned out to be positive. I sent the slides to Prof Jonathan Epstein at Johns Hopkins for a second opinion.

Johanna Budwig mixed flax seed oil with "quark" which is something similar to cottage cheese or yoghurt sold in Germany. She said that flax seed oil on its own is harmful. One of her books is available through Amazon at this link . . .

http://www.amazon.com/Against-Arthritis-Infarction-Cancer-Diseases/dp/0969527217/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1209993376&sr=8-2

As I say, I have no idea if Budwig is a quack or not, but many of the things she recommended 50 years ago are now becoming mainstream like the importance of unsaturated fats, avoiding processed food, sugar, eating a mainly organic vegetarian diet, sun baths, avoiding stress, etc. Oh yes, a glass of wine is allowed !!

All the best,

Steve

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Diagnosed: June 2007. Aged 61. PSA 19.6. DRE negative.
Biopsy: June 2007; 2 cores of 18 positive.
MRI and Bone Scan: Negative.
Pathology: 5% of 1 core, "Small focus" in another core +ve.
Gleason 3 + 3 = 6.
Clinical: PCa considered confined to prostate. Stage T1c.
Treatment: After considering RP and HD Brachy, decided on Intermittent Triple Androgen Blockade Therapy for 1-year, using ZOLADEX, CASODEX 150 mg/day, AVODART 0.5 mg/day. Start PSA 19.2 (July 2007).
Current Status: PSA 0.057 (April 2008).
---------------

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