Question about bone mets.

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ChrisR
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Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 830
   Posted 5/14/2008 6:17 AM (GMT -6)   
I am newly Dx.  I am having numbing feeling in my ribs when I lay on my side.  Is it possible I could have bone mets. already?
 
Yes, I am paranoid right now...
 
Age 42
PSA 2.4 11/03
PSA 2.57 7/06
PSA 2.75 8/07
PSA 2.75 3/08
4 out of 52 cores "small focus"
3+3=6
Deciding on treatment.

KrisP
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2008
Total Posts : 162
   Posted 5/14/2008 6:53 AM (GMT -6)   
I doubt it!! Have you done a bone and cat scan after biopsy result?
Biopsy done 3/2008
Pathology report: Gleason 6 (3+3), involving left lobe
DRE=15gm with indurated left base and mid prostate
Cores positive: left base medial, left base lateral, left mid medial and left mid lateral (4 of 12)
Clinical stage t2b.
Prostate Carcinorna 185
DaVinci Surgery on 4/21/2008 in Austin by Dr Randy Fagin.
Pathologist report upgraded to a Gleason 7 (3+4)
Clinical stage upgraded also to a T3a
Margins Clear


ChrisR
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 830
   Posted 5/14/2008 6:59 AM (GMT -6)   
No.  I was told unless your PSA is over 20 they won't do one..

KrisP
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2008
Total Posts : 162
   Posted 5/14/2008 7:07 AM (GMT -6)   
After my diagnose, the doctor told me that I don't need any scan. I was having pain in my right pelvic bone so he ordered the bone scan anyway and told me that they will not find anything. I also told him that a few years ago I had a chunk of bone taken from that area to do a fusion of my cervical spine and probably that is the reason for the pain. I just wanted to be 100% sure so I went ahaead and did the bone scan which came out negative.
 
Kris


Biopsy done 3/2008
Pathology report: Gleason 6 (3+3), involving left lobe
DRE=15gm with indurated left base and mid prostate
Cores positive: left base medial, left base lateral, left mid medial and left mid lateral (4 of 12)
Clinical stage t2b.
Prostate Carcinorna 185
DaVinci Surgery on 4/21/2008 in Austin by Dr Randy Fagin.
Pathologist report upgraded to a Gleason 7 (3+4)
Clinical stage upgraded also to a T3a
Margins Clear


DanmanBob
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 467
   Posted 5/14/2008 10:19 AM (GMT -6)   

Chris, given your biopsy results, it is highly doubtful you have bone mets.

By the way, some docs order the scans for everyone who has a positive biopsy.

I know you are paranoid.  The mental anguish can be great, but try not to focus on everything being worst case.  I did that for a few weeks, then tried to look for the good.

Best of luck.


Danman Bob, Born 1951
Nerve-sparing, open prostate surgery November 13, 2007
Gleason score 9, PSA 14; Biopsy result - 9 of 12 sticks showed cancer
Post-op pathology stated that cancer was confined to the prostate
Unrelated surgery January 2008 delayed incontinence recovery, which is now showing good signs of improvement (fraction of a pad a day as of late April 2008)
100 MG Viagra 3 times a week beginning December 2007
Osbon Erec-Aid Esteem manual pump for therapy beginning mid-February 2008
30 MG papaverine/1 MG phentolamine bimix injections beginning late April 2008
Five week post-op PSA 0.2, five month post-op PSA 0.1, next test August 2008


Tim G
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 2331
   Posted 5/14/2008 11:32 AM (GMT -6)   
Chris--Your numbers are too low for any metastases.  After my positive biopsy I began feeling pains that raised the same question in my mind.  The urologist said a bone scan wasn't needed with my low PSA and early-stage cancer based on the biopsy.  Your results look similar to mine.  Anxiety goes with the territory.
 
Take care and hang in there...Tim


Age 59  PSA quadrupled in 1 yr (0.6 to 2.5) 
DRE neg  1 of 12 biopsies pos (5%) 
Open surgery June 2006 
Cancer confined to prostate (1 pea-sized area) 
T2a  Gleason 5 (3+2)  PSA < 0.1  


James C.
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4462
   Posted 5/14/2008 11:49 AM (GMT -6)   
I had flank pain for several weeks after my biopsy, especially when lying on my left side. I wouldn't worry too much with numbers as low as yours.
James C.  
Help support the forums so they can support you:  http://www.healingwell.com/donate  
Age 60 
4/19/07   PSA 7.6, referred to Urologist, recheck 6.7
7/11/07   Biopsy- 16 core samples, size of gland around 76 cc. Staging pT2c
7/17/07   Path report:  3 of 16 PCa, 5% involved, left lobe , GS 3/3:6. 
9/24/07   (Open) Retropubic Radical Prostatectomy performed 
9/26/07   Post-op Path Report: GS 3+3=6 Staging pT2c, 110gms, margins clear
10/15/07  ED- begin 50mg Viagra and Vacurect pump nightly, Fully continent
1/14/08   Caverject started/stopped, aching.  2/24/08 .5ml Bimix started-success
5/7/08     ED- Viagra, pump, no response- Trimix .075ml continues
              Post-surgery PSA's:  3 mt:0, 6 mt:0,


Doting Daughter
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 1064
   Posted 5/14/2008 12:48 PM (GMT -6)   

Hi Chris!  Looking at your profile, I would say it is pretty unlikely.  However, we did the same thing when my father was diagnosed.  He is 20 years older than you, so you can imagine how many aches he has.  Your mind will convince you of the worst if you let it! Again, looking at your profile, it looks like you were able to catch it early and have a great shot at a cure.  Hang in there and keep posting! 

Doting


DX July 15, 2007
Age 62 (now 63)
PSA 5.5
Original Gleason 3+4=7, Post-Op Gleason- 4+3=7, T3a N1 M0
DaVinci Surgery Aug 31, 2007
Focally Positive Right Margin, One positive node
Bone Scan/CT Negative (Sept. 10, 2007)
Post Surgery Gleason- 4+3=7
Oct. 17 PSA 0.07
Nov. 13 PSA 0.05
Casodex adm. Nov 07
Lupron beg. Dec 03, 2007 2 yr
Radiation March 03-April 22, 2008- 8 weeks 5x a week
Praying for a cured dad. First PSA 3 months!


smilingoldcoot
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2008
Total Posts : 338
   Posted 5/14/2008 2:21 PM (GMT -6)   
CrisP

My friend, my highest PSA has been 7.7 and I had a bone scan and I guess about all the tests so don't take that they won't do a bone scan as gosple. Ask for or rather insist on one. If for no other reason than your peace of mind


Thinking and praying for you.

Richard
Retired USAF Richard & Debbie on The Shores of Toledo Bend Lake Louisiana
Biospy 1/10/08 Gleason 10, Stage T1C  8 of 12 samples positive all Less Than 5% 
U of Florida Proton Therapy Institute
5/2/2008 LUPRON & Casodex
IMRT to start 5/15/2008 for approx 4 weeks with Proton to follow for approx 4 weeks
Turn Stumbling Blocks into Steping Stones and Keep Smiling
Our Journey is on WWW.GLEASON10.COM
 


smilingoldcoot
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2008
Total Posts : 338
   Posted 5/14/2008 2:22 PM (GMT -6)   
Last post is for ChrisR
 
Sorry typo
 
Richard
Retired USAF Richard & Debbie on The Shores of Toledo Bend Lake Louisiana
Biospy 1/10/08 Gleason 10, Stage T1C  8 of 12 samples positive all Less Than 5% 
U of Florida Proton Therapy Institute
5/2/2008 LUPRON & Casodex
IMRT to start 5/15/2008 for approx 4 weeks with Proton to follow for approx 4 weeks
Turn Stumbling Blocks into Steping Stones and Keep Smiling
Our Journey is on WWW.GLEASON10.COM
 


Piano
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 847
   Posted 5/14/2008 6:09 PM (GMT -6)   
ChrisR,
Like the other posters, I think it most unlikely that you have bone mets.
 
I saw my urologist recently about a similar problem, fearing that I too might have bone mets. He said that PSA would be "in the hundreds" before you would have physical symptoms from mets.

Age 63. Other than cancer, in good health; BMI 20
Pre-op: No symptoms; PSA 5.7; Gleason 4+5=9; cancer in 4 of 12 cores
7 March 2008, RRP, non nerve sparing
Two nights in hospital; catheter and staples out after 7 days
Continent, no pads needed from the get-go
Post Op: Stage pT2 M- N-; clear margins and lymph nodes; Gleason 4+4=8; prostate weight: 37gm
6-week PSA: 0
No erections (of course!)
Experimenting with VED and Bimix
 


VaFan
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2008
Total Posts : 203
   Posted 5/14/2008 6:42 PM (GMT -6)   
As soon as my husband was diagnosed he started having leg and hip pain. It was nothing but the anxiety was getting to him I believe. Do whatever you need to do that will give you peace of mind.
Age 51 Kent Cindy 49
January 08 PSA 5.2 round of antibiotics went to 4.3
February 08 another round of antibiotics went to 4.2
March 17,08 had biopsy, 2 days later told cancer was on
one entire side of prostate.
Gleason 3+3
Doctor thinks its best to get the whole prostate with Perineal  Prostatectomy.
Surgery scheduled for this Thursday April 10th. Only took 1 1/2 hours. In recovery 1 hour.  Both nerves were spared.
Home 4-11 - incision looks completly healed on the outside by 4-25
Cath out 4-22 dripping some
5-3 Still incontinence with sneezing or coughing but not too bad
Cialis 5 mg at night to start. Didn't agree with system. Viagra 50 mg daily. Already having full erections. Still have a ways to go though, of course.


Gordy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2005
Total Posts : 528
   Posted 5/14/2008 6:58 PM (GMT -6)   
ChrisR-

I agree that the likelihood is small, but I disagree with your doc about the bone scan. If for no other reason than your peace of mind, it should be done. It's an easy test and no big deal. Assert yourself - you're the boss and the doc works for you (and you can fire him at any time and "emlploy" another). Good luck.

-Les
1/2005 Dx PSA 26.5 Gleason 7 (4+3) @Age 61
1/2005 Start Casodex and Zoladex
PSA drops to <0.01
7/2005-8/2005 5 weeks of IMRT and then HDR brachy
1/2007 Rad Oncologist orders CT scan of pelvis
because of complaints of pain in both thighs
MRI confirms pain not caused by cancer BUT
1/2007 CT scan of pelvis picks up a nodule at bottom of left lung
5/2007 CT scan of lungs shows 1/2007 nodule has grown and
there are numerous nodules on both lungs.
6/2007 Thoracic surgeon removes wedge of left lung for biopsy
6/2007 Path report says 95% chance of metastatic PCa, but she's
never seen cells like this before.
8/2007 2nd opinion at M.D. Anderson in Houston.
They confirm: mutated PCa, very rare, but seen there 2 or
3 times. Recommendation: have CT scans every 6 weeks
and watch for change. At that point start chemo and will
survive for 22 - 24 months thereafter.
PSA still undetectable, but get Lupron shot to bring T down from 27
2/2008 Trip to Houston – PSA now 0.5 and nodules larger. Lupron shot.


mvesr
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2007
Total Posts : 823
   Posted 5/14/2008 7:54 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi ChrisR. Les is right. It is you body and your life. Get all the tests so you can to put your mind at ease. This is a real tough time. After the results of my biposy I hurt from head to toe. I thought my prostate was going to explode and all my bones hurt even after the bone scan. I really freaked out when I had blood in my semen. My first urologist did not tell me about the possibility that might happen. So, I saw another Dr. who eventually removed my prostate. Get a second opinion and go to a facility with a multidiciplinary approach to treating the cancer. Hear from all types of Dr's, make your decision and don't look back. It is your journey. Let us know how you are doing and your decision. We all care for each other on this site. By the way Les, have you got the vette yet?

Mika

Mika
age at dx 54 now 55
psa at dx 4.3
got the bad news 1/29/07
open surgery Duke Medical Center 5-29-07
never more than 2 pads
wear one for insurance now
ED still a problem
last PSA undetectable
 


Gordy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2005
Total Posts : 528
   Posted 5/14/2008 7:58 PM (GMT -6)   
Yes, Mika, I picked it up a few hours ago. Lots of new electronics to get used to.

Thanks for asking.

-Les
1/2005 Dx PSA 26.5 Gleason 7 (4+3) @Age 61
1/2005 Start Casodex and Zoladex
PSA drops to <0.01
7/2005-8/2005 5 weeks of IMRT and then HDR brachy
1/2007 Rad Oncologist orders CT scan of pelvis
because of complaints of pain in both thighs
MRI confirms pain not caused by cancer BUT
1/2007 CT scan of pelvis picks up a nodule at bottom of left lung
5/2007 CT scan of lungs shows 1/2007 nodule has grown and
there are numerous nodules on both lungs.
6/2007 Thoracic surgeon removes wedge of left lung for biopsy
6/2007 Path report says 95% chance of metastatic PCa, but she's
never seen cells like this before.
8/2007 2nd opinion at M.D. Anderson in Houston.
They confirm: mutated PCa, very rare, but seen there 2 or
3 times. Recommendation: have CT scans every 6 weeks
and watch for change. At that point start chemo and will
survive for 22 - 24 months thereafter.
PSA still undetectable, but get Lupron shot to bring T down from 27
2/2008 Trip to Houston – PSA now 0.5 and nodules larger. Lupron shot.


dutchy
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 75
   Posted 5/17/2008 2:58 AM (GMT -6)   
I agree with Les: get the bone scan done. It's better for your piece of mind, if anything it will provide you with a baseline. It is better to investigate than to make assumptions. Dutchy
Dutchy's husband
Diagnosis: 7/6: PSA 1,946, multiple bone metastases in thoracic, lumbar spine, pelvis, bilateral ribs and proximal left tibia, 2 weeks Casodex (50 mg)

Treatment: 3 monthly Lupron injection (22.5 mg) + Zometa (4 mg IV). Added daily Casodex (50 mg) in September 2007.

25/6: PSA 407
20/8: PSA 3,7
29/9: PSA 0.7
14/10: PSA 0.17
18/12: PSA < 0.003
15/3: PSA <0.003


livinadream
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 1382
   Posted 5/17/2008 8:18 AM (GMT -6)   
ChrisR you have a valid concern because you have PC, however I, like the others would have to agree that is highly unlikely of any bone mets. If the doctors had any doubts I am sure they would order a bone scan. Are you feeling the pressure from family and friends to have a bone scan? Please feel free at anytime to voice your concerns here at HW, also if you like to chat further send me an email.

peace and love
Dale
My PSA at diagnosis was 16.3
age 46 (current)
My gleason score from prostate was 4+5=9 and from the lymph nodes was 4+4=8
I had 44 IMRT's
Casodex
Currently on Lupron
I go to The Cancer Treatment Center of America
Married with two kids
 


Lungman
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2008
Total Posts : 276
   Posted 5/17/2008 8:48 AM (GMT -6)   
My doc initially did not want to order a bone scan unless my PSA was over 10, but as close as I was, he went ahead. Seems many MDs have different thresholds for additional testing. Immediately following my dx, my mind was in overtime imagining all kinds of aches and pains, but really nothing other than mind over matter. If you have the resources or insurance coverage for testing, get everything that makes you and your family comfortable, don't let the MD restrict your care, after all, you are the one with cancer, not him.

Randy
46 you when diagnosed, now 47
Pre-Op PSA 9.9
1 of 12 cores positive, Gleason 3+3
DaVinci on 9/5/2007
Post-Op Gleason 3+6, Negative Nodes and Margins
Less than 1% of prostate involved with CA
3 Month PSA 0.01, 6 Month PSA 0.01
Incontinence resolved 9/15/2007, one day after cath removal
ED showing significant improvement.
Cialis 5 mg every night.
Success with BiMix


Swimom
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 1732
   Posted 5/17/2008 9:36 AM (GMT -6)   
Chris,

You have a slowly rising (repeat this 10 times) PSA, a Gleason 3+3 and a clinical diagnosis using 52 cores. There is no better way to pretty much assure you that your cancer is in an early stage, short of removing it. The next step to this is to remove it so the diagnosis can be absolutely confirmed. Doing tests just to do them seems invasive when the risk of lymph node involvement is <1%. Just another test with your early stage probably won't provide the comfort you seek. Trusting in the tests you've had appears to be quite a safe bet. No guarentees but it is about the best we can do sometimes. Good Luck

Swim
 


positivelife
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 42
   Posted 5/18/2008 5:38 PM (GMT -6)   
Chris

It is extremely unlikely about bone mets. Gleason grade is low and only 4/52 (or say less than 1 out of 12). If you hadn't gone for a 52 core low chance that it would have even been picked up.

I used to imagine all kinds of pelvic pains etc but the urologist said there is no need for bone scan etc.

The prognosis for complete cure is as good as it can get. Do a bone scan if it gives you peace of mind. But do not do too many biopsies again because i read some where about spread through needle involvement. You know what to do, do plenty of research and then decide.

All the best
Dx Age 48 Nov 07
PRE OP
Psa 4.5, Biopsy 2/8 cores positive Gleason 3+3
No perineural or lymphovascular invasion in the biopsy specimen.
Rushed to RRP without much research- Jan 08

POST OP
Geason 3+3 ,10% both lobes, There is perineurial invasion
No extraprostatic spread seen , Seminal vesicles normal,Nerves spared
Cancer close to apex but margins clear T2c NXMX
Incontinence pretty bad until April 08- suddenly down to 1 pad
ED - started cialis once every 2 or 3 days from April but no improvement
1st post op Psa <.1 (May 08)

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