Incontinence after DaVinci

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traveling sandi
New Member


Date Joined May 2008
Total Posts : 4
   Posted 6/10/2008 11:53 AM (GMT -7)   
Any idea how long is the average for full recovery. Hubby had the surgery May 29th. Great results assured the surgeon. Fully contained, negative margins, nerves spared, Cancer gone! He caught it very early.
He had some issues with control the first day, however could stop and start after the cathetor came out (5 days post). He has been dry all night since day 2, and pretty much dry sitting since day 3 or 4.  He is not a patient man at all....it is 7 days today and he is dripping when he does his daily walks. I am not sure but he says 2-3 pads a day..he is feeling great, never needed a pain pill, no gas pains, but he is not happy with the pads...
What is the normal (average) length of time.
Any info would be appreciated..
 
Jim's wife

soxfans4life
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 63
   Posted 6/10/2008 12:27 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi Jims Wife , I can really relate to this! Rod had surgery on the 28th, and same results, early detection, contained, nerves spared and cancer gone, thank God ! Catheter out on June 5th ;now dry at night and sitting but dripping on walking and exertion. He feels great and wants to mow the lawn etc. which md told him he could in small intervals.( I don't agree and plan to use the riding mower myself. ) But yes, the pads are not a happy thing, he's an easygoing guy but this IS a challenge!! I know that some guys need them for quite a while , healing is really just beginning and there is one muscle doing the work of 3. If you read some of the old posts there is so much comforting information from the MOST knowledgeable people. We'll figure it out,and time will make the difference. Good Luck! Annie
dx. 3-08  @ age 63. gleason 6 . 1 out of 12 cores positive. 4th biopsy in 8 years. previous 3 negative. followed closley due to family hx.grandfather, father and 2 uncles dx. with prostate cancer. dre negative, cat and bone scan negative. davinci scheduled for may 27, 2008. 2 daughters, retired hospital administration, air force family years ago.


traveling sandi
New Member


Date Joined May 2008
Total Posts : 4
   Posted 6/10/2008 12:38 PM (GMT -7)   
I read a lot of this, but did not post on it before now...
and knew our hubby were just a day apart on the surgery..good news for both of us. Jim is very easy going, but the engineer in him likes to solve problems..and this one requires waiting...not an easy thing for him.
I do not think he is doing badly by any stretch...but....he is impatient.
Our doctor said Jim could cut the lawn with the riding mower, he did it last week, 6 days after surgery. Once the doctor said he could there was no way I was gonna tell him no, he's not gonna listen to me when the doctor says it is okay.Plus I own my own business and work full time, so I am not home. He is doing so well, feeling so well, hard to keep him down, but I am trying. He cannot lift his pride and joy, 2 year old Emily and that is killing him...cause "grandpa is my best friend". Glad your hubby is doing so well...
Thanks for the advice I will try some old posts...
Sandi

Dirtmover
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 158
   Posted 6/10/2008 1:34 PM (GMT -7)   
hi sandi my surgery was also on the 29th and remind your hubby hes one a a select  few producing above average results such as sox fan and i.who is at the same time , i have a type a personality and cant sit  still more than a few minutes i  was dry at night two days after cath removal and i too drip occassoinaly ,if hes like me it happens more at night  than any thing when the muscles are tired im doing everything i was (almost) before except lifting even had sex with mrs 2 days after cath removed .it is obvious you had a fantastic surgeon as we did we are in california good luck ,please contact me by reg e mail or call if he wants to talk we are in this together only now we are in it together cancer free have a good day ......im so thankful i can just wake up to my lovely wife every morning,,,,,,life is even better now .   screw the little things they dont even count anymore....kevin

Diagnosed November 2007
PSA 3.9 / Gleason 6 / TC1 6 cores 1 shows 25%
Sugery scheduled 5/29/08 - City of Hope - Dr. Mark Kawachi
 
 and now for the new ive been waiting for
 FINAL PATH REPORT:gleason upgraded to 3+4 T2c bilateral disease,tumor involvment 5%
extra prostatic extention:absent
seminal vesical invasion :absent
pathological staging:pTNM pT2 ORGAN CONFINED
margins free of carcinoma
usable erections ;6-6-08 with little blue pill
continence; 1 pad a day, dry at night


sargeandham
New Member


Date Joined Jun 2008
Total Posts : 14
   Posted 6/10/2008 1:38 PM (GMT -7)   
hi  Jims Wife:  I had robotic surg 5-07.  They think one muscle and one nerve was saved.  Incontience.....Terrible,  most men  75% is average: are ok in 6 mos or so, I am almost 13 mos.,  did kegals, etc.  use 5 to 6 pads a day until last week, I had advanced male sling installed.  Dry since.  So tell him patience, even in 6 to 12 mons, he will or should overcome it.  I did not, so there is a possible out.  A good dr.is necessary so he can determine if sling will work.  Sometimes it doesnt.  There is not much discussion on this.  I am hoping my success continues.  Its only been 7  days..    good luck to him....  sargeandham

age 65  pre-op PSA was 10.2
bio 2005 was neg psa 4.2 ., 10-06 was 4.5  neg.bio
01-08  4.7 could not determine, dr. requested send to J.Hopkins, one from Oct 07 came back pos. gleason 3+3  2 of 10 positive.
robot assisted henry ford hosp 5/07 psa every 3 mons  0.1 since great...,
incontience 4 to 5 pads daily for year terrible...
6/03/08 advanced male sling installed.its been a week no leakage  one time at night //great..//dr. excellant he  never gave up. sling done Colo. SC


CT
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 25
   Posted 6/10/2008 7:07 PM (GMT -7)   
My results is below.  Dry after about 6 weeks or so.  I continued using a pad in the day for insurance until about 10 days ago.

Age: 50 (March 2008)

DX 1/08 @ 49 yo

7/05: PSA 2.6 DRE Normal

9/07: PSA 3.4 DRE Normal

1/08: Biopsy 1 of 12 cores with 10% involvement, T1c, Gleason 3+3=6

4/08/08:  Da Vinci Rad. prostectomy @ Banner Thunderbird, 5 hrs.

                Advised both nerve bundles spared

                Post Op Pathology Report: Tumor confined w/in prostate, pT2c, NX, DX 

    Gleason is 3+3=6, bilateral with 15% total involvement near apex

                Margins and Seminal Vesicles negative!!!

4/18/08:  Staples and Catheter removed. Drip, drip, drip, drip...

5/23/08:  Dry!!!!


Tony Crispino
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 8128
   Posted 6/10/2008 7:17 PM (GMT -7)   

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Tony Crispino
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 8128
   Posted 6/10/2008 7:21 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi Sandi,
I remember the first few weeks all too well. It takes time and patience. For some it has taken much longer. But almost all have shown improvement with time. Welcome to the best site on the web for patient to patient interaction. HW was a God send for my whil I started out in this ordeal. Still is today. And we are glad to be here to help you. Stay close and Stay Positive!!!

Tony
Age 45 (44 when Dx)
Pre-op PSA was 19.8
Surgery on Feb 16, 2007 @ The City of Hope
Post-Op Pathology: Gleason 4+3=7, positive margins, Stage pT3b (Stage III)
HT began in May, '07 with Lupron and Casodex 50mg
IMRT radiation for 38 Treatments ending August 3, '07
Current PSA (May 9 '08): <0.1
I will continue HT until May '09. 
Years in Remission (3/23/07): 1
Visit my Journey at:
And at:
 
STAY POSITIVE!
 
Prostate Cancer Forum Moderator


anglophile
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 82
   Posted 6/10/2008 7:58 PM (GMT -7)   
sandi,

What did your husband's doctor tell you about the length of incontinence? If I read your post right, you husband has only been 7 days since post catheter?

Everything I read and was told was 3 months to a year or more before full continence. It depends on whether the patient does his pelvic floor exercises regularly.

I'm at two months post op and have been in for post-op bio-feedback and that helped me get from 3 pads a day to 2 pads a day (24 hours).
Age 59 - diagnosed in Jan. 08 after biopsy
da Vinci Robotic Prostatectomy 4/11/08 - both nerves spared
Catheter removed 4/25/08
Prostate Pathology:
Gleason Grade 6 (3+3)
Apex: neg
Base: positive (tumor present at right and left base)
Peripheral Margins: neg
No extra prostatic extension seen
Tumor corresponds to a AJCC/pTMN stage II
5 wks post-op Continence: 1 pad night, 2 during day
7 wks post-op Continence: 2 pads every 24 hours
First post-op PSA at 7 wks: 0.1


BamaCoast
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 39
   Posted 6/10/2008 8:27 PM (GMT -7)   

Jim's wife,

I am just a few days past three months and I am having just a few spots per day now. Looking forward to the day I do not need the pads. When my incontenience got better it seem to happen almost overnight. I went from 6-8 pads a day to 4-5 almost one day to the next then went down to 2-3 pads per day the same way. I have been down to 1 pad a day for several weeks now and it appears to be getting close to be dry. Try to have patience and do the kegels daily. It really does help. Stay off caffiene for a while and anything that might irritate the bladder. Straight water seems to be best until Jim starts to improve.

 

 

 


BamaCoast - Kenny & Renae
from the Gulf Coast of Alabama
Age 51
Di Vinci Robotic Surgery March 5th, 2008
by Dr. Scott Tully
PSA 3.5  Gleason 3+4= 7
Confined to Prostate
1st PSA will be May 9th
 


kcragman
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2008
Total Posts : 240
   Posted 6/11/2008 9:41 AM (GMT -7)   
I believe the Walsh stats are: 79% of men regain continence within 3 months, 88% within 6 months, and 98% within one year. I am 5 1/2 weeks post op and still dripping heavily when standing, about 7 pads a day. I am actually worse than I was a few weeks ago when it was 5 pads a day. But - chin up - we'll get there.

These guys leaping on lawn mowers and having sex a week after surgery are unbelieveable. I still cannot sit comfortably in a chair most of the time.

I am convinced I will completely heal eventually. It just might take a little longer than than some of these guys.
kcragman
Age: 52
March 2006: PSA 2.5
Dec 2007:   PSA taken for insurance application. I did not see the results until late Jan '08 - after I was rejected. Their lab said PSA 4.5. PSA again in Feb '08: 3.7.
March 2008: Biopsy. Gleason 7 (4+3) 12 cores taken. 5 on the left side were cancerous and the 6th did not look good.
May 5, 2008: Da Vinci robotic laparoscopy at GW Hospital, Washington DC.
Post op: Gleason 9 (4+5). 15% of prostate involved. Negative margins. Lymph nodes and associated glands all appear to be cancer free.


njiceman
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 28
   Posted 6/11/2008 10:22 AM (GMT -7)   

Sandi,

my surgery was 11/26/08.  At ~ 5 weeks, even though I was leaking somewhat (1pad a day) I went back to officiating scholastic wrestling.  Up & down on the mat, running around to cover the match I seemed to leak more but didn't stop me from being "normal".  At 3 months, I got the flu real bad and the coughing caused me to use 2 pads a day.

After recovering from that, I went to strictly panty liners.  Still using them @ 6 months but there are typically just some minor stains.  I have an ice cream store & am lifting 50 lb. buckets of ice cream all day.  As mentioned earlier here, it seems that late night while lounging around there tends to be some leakage.

Patience is something this disease teaches you.   It will eventially come around.

 

Wayne


Age- 59 @ Diagnosis
Diagnosed July 2007
PSA-4.0 (Free psa 11%)
Biopsy August 2007 - 2 of 4 on Right Side with 20%, Stage T1c
Gleason (3+4)
Cat Scan & Bone Scan both Clean
DaVinci Surgery Nov. 26th RWJUH Cancer Center, New brunswick, NJ
11/27/07  Home & on the road to recovery
12/4/2007 Catheter Out!
Pathology Report:  Gleason 3+3=6
                          Stage   T2c
                          Organ contained Negative Margins
1/1/08  Back to Officiating Wrestling
2/27/08 1st Post Op PSA...<0.1 Undetectable
Still using a pad everyday for minor leaks (using Detrol for bladder spasms)
4/1/08 Trying Levitra every other day  very little response :(
5/6/08 Stopped the Detrol....Didn't help anyway.
Response to stimulation getting better for Mr. Happy


Frank1205
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 308
   Posted 6/11/2008 12:27 PM (GMT -7)   

Hi Sandi,

Welcome, welcome.  I am about 10 weeks post op and approaching my 3 month period.  DaVinci as well.  1-2 lightly wetted pads a day and very little if anything during sleep. 

Your hubby is one of the lucky ones and needs to be patient for his continence will bounce around depending on a lot of elements of his healing.

I would like to strongly encourage Jim to take it easy on the lifting thing.  I have heard quite a few stories of hernias from our brothers on this site.  There are some pretty fresh wholes in your addomen that he needs to remember. The hernia surgery is said to be worse than the DaVinci.  I had restrictions for 6 weeks on lifting and I believe it should have been more. tongue

Take Care,

Frank

 

 


Diagnosed 01-08-08 @ 53 years old 
DRE normal - High PSA for 5 or more years
2004 Biospy negative - 2008 Biopsy positive (01-08-08)
10 cores, 1 positive and at 1% of that one core
Current PSA 6 - Bone and Ct scans negative
clinicalg Staged at T1C - Gleason 3+3 = 6
Robotic Da Vinci performed March 27th, 2008
University of Chicago,5 hour surgery , 3 hour recovery
Unexpected Cardiac issues appear and disappear?
Hospital stay 30 hours - Catheter out in 7 days  normaly expected leakage - Erectile funtion back on line 9 days 
Post Pathology T2C, Gleason 7, 10 % of both portions of prostate, Seminal vessels clear, fat tissue clear,Tumor on top of prostate distal from apex. 1 positve margin at urethra and bladder.
Six week PSA < 0.05 Ya Ba Da Ba Dooooooooooo.  Put a steak on the grill Wilma!!!!
Oncologist to discuss case with Urologist and Radiation Oncologist to consider radiation.
 


traveling sandi
New Member


Date Joined May 2008
Total Posts : 4
   Posted 6/11/2008 1:41 PM (GMT -7)   

Thanks for all the feedback. I think he is doing really well..and I am encouraging him to be patient. Tonight we are going out to dinner, I think he has been holding back going to many place because of the leakage...but this morning he was a Happy Camper....seems ED might not be much of a problem...that really cheered him up!

Jim's wife


phillysub
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 64
   Posted 6/11/2008 1:54 PM (GMT -7)   

The common word that you will hear (see?) around here is "patience".

Although DaVinci has great short-term benefits where you feel like you're ready to be your "old self" again, the reality is that the body needs time to heal and adjust. 

Having "accidents" and wearing pads is no joy at all. It is very frustrating.

My own personal experience: I have just past the 5 month "post-op" mark.......I am 98% dry - no pads during day, when I'm home (I will wear a pad when I go out - "just in case"). On the days when I wear no pad, I might get a dribble here and there - mostly in the evening (this is because the muscles are getting tired). Haven't had to wear a pad at night for awhile.

As time went on, I could sense an improvement and expect to be 100% shortly.

Remember....."patience".

Good luck!

 


Phillysub.

Age: 51
Last PSA before diagnosis: 2.9
Diagnosed: Oct 2007
Gleason: 3+3=6
RALP surgery: Jan 23, 2008 (Dr Costas Lallas @ Thomas Jefferson Hospital in Philadelphia)
1st Post-op appt: Feb 1, 2008 (negative margins, cancer contained within the capsule)
1st PSA post-op: May 23, 2008 - <0.1 undetectable


rob2
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 1131
   Posted 6/11/2008 6:43 PM (GMT -7)   
i'm about 6 weeks past surgery. i wear one pad during the day. at night time, i get up 3+ times to go to the bathroom. i get up more now than before i had surgery. i thought i was dry at night starting last thursday but woke up this morning thinking i was dry but my pad was heavy. it is frustrating but patience is the word. i worked my longest work day yesterday and drank a lot of water. i slept harder for a couple of hours and sure the muscles were relaxed and the urine flowed. i am dry during the day. when i get up i sometime leak. also, if i really have to go i can't hold it long. it is frustrating but i am doing the kegels. i still have ed problems. no erection since surgery. doctor hasn't provided any type of ed drug yet. i'll talk to him next week to see what his plans are.
 
Age 48
occupation accountant
PSA increased from 2.6 to 3.5 in one year
biopsy march 2008 - cancer present gleason 7
decision - surgery (robotic)
surgery may 9, 2008 - houston, tx
pathology report -gleason 8
margins clear
waiting on first psa post surgery
continence ok during day - 1 pad
night time different story
kegel's twice a day 20 reps


JCL
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2007
Total Posts : 242
   Posted 6/12/2008 5:28 AM (GMT -7)   

Although it’s only been a year, reading your story brings back clear memories of wondering when I was going to regain full continence. Although I had control at night and while sitting, my biggest problem was dripping while doing any activity or going out on my walks. The drip, drip, drip would drive me crazy and I was worried that it would never stop. I would scour the internet for information and thank God, by chance, I came across this site and found Cedar Chopper’s thread on incontinence. It was tremendously helpful so I’ve stuck around here ever since, although I go absent from time to time since life gets in the way. Finally at one point I went out to cut the grass and after 45 minutes I ducked around the corner and checked my shorts and EUREAKA!, no drip! A few days later I went out on a walk and found that I could go for 45 minutes before any moisture. A few weeks later it just stopped altogether.

 

Anyway, your husband sounds like he’ll be fine, and I can only echo what others have said, “Be patient.” I would also say to him to measure progress in months, not weeks.  Good luck and check back in. I’m sure he’ll be fine and fully continent.


Biopsy: Diagnosed March 25, 2007. PSA 3.0. Gleason 6. Five of twelve samples positive with <5% each. No perineural invasion seen.
Surgery: May 21, 2007, Florida Hospital, Orlando,FL
Post-op Pathology: Upgraded to Gleason 7 (3+4), negative margins, negative capsular penetration, negative seminal vesicles, lymph nodes left intact, multifocal perinural invasion, 15% of prosate involving cancer in both lobes. T2c
Continence/Erections Out of pads at five weeks. Fully continent and can achieve erections.
Post Surgery PSA: Five tests, all <0.1
Family history: Great-great grandfather died from PC. My Father had his prostate removed at age 67 in 1997 and has had an undetectable PSA ever since. I was diagnosed at a much earlier age and had a more agressive cancer than my father. Go figure.


kcragman
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2008
Total Posts : 240
   Posted 6/13/2008 10:25 AM (GMT -7)   
Rob2: My doctor started me on Cialis (sp?) 4 weeks after surgery. I'm taking one every 4-5 days. The theory is that it helps increase the blood flow to the area, which is good for a number of reasons. I have had some "swelling" sensations, but nothing close to a useable erection.
kcragman
Age: 52
March 2006: PSA 2.5
Dec 2007:   PSA taken for insurance application. I did not see the results until late Jan '08 - after I was rejected. Their lab said PSA 4.5. PSA again in Feb '08: 3.7.
March 2008: Biopsy. Gleason 7 (4+3) 12 cores taken. 5 on the left side were cancerous and the 6th did not look good.
May 5, 2008: Da Vinci robotic laparoscopy at GW Hospital, Washington DC.
Post op: Gleason 9 (4+5). 15% of prostate involved. Negative margins. Lymph nodes and associated glands all appear to be cancer free.


jimmy c
New Member


Date Joined Jun 2008
Total Posts : 1
   Posted 6/22/2008 7:31 AM (GMT -7)   
    This is my first post. my name is jimmy c and I had
  robotic laparoscopic radical prostatectomy apr 21st.
  Surgery was a success thank God, but I drip like a
  faucet when I'm standing, walking, ect.
  I own a restaurant 33 yrs, that requires many hrs on
  my feet. I'm doing PT twice a week with biofeedback,
  kegals 3 times a day, and 0 improvement.
    I found this site by accident, and I,m glad I did.
   You have givin me hope,
                                    thanks
                                                  Jimmy C
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
I am going to P T twice a week for biofeedback.
 

Gordy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2005
Total Posts : 528
   Posted 6/22/2008 2:08 PM (GMT -7)   
Jim's Wife-

Although I'm using your thread to make my statement, it is not directed specifically at you.
All-

I'm 64 years old. I've been through most of my life at this point and that has included most of the traumatic circumstances that most experience during a lifetime. However, when I was DX'd with PCa in January 2005, I considered that experience to be be the most traumatic of of everything I had experienced and probably would experience during whatever time I have left.

I bought every book which was recommended here and other places, I spent hundreds of hours on the 'Net doing research, I had 5 "second opinions" with doctors practicing every relevant therapy and when I finally decided on a procedure and the doctor I wanted to perform it, I asked him for the names and phone numbers of several of his more recent patients to question about their experiences.

I'm certainly no rocket scientist, but this was, (and is) my life I was fighting for. I can't understand why patients who have already undergone one procedure or the other, are still asking PCa 101 first-day-of-class questions. How could one have made an informed decision on the Tx he was to undergo without learning of all the side effects, their duration and intensity.

I just don't understand.

-Les
1/2005 Dx PSA 26.5 Gleason 7 (4+3) @Age 61
1/2005 Start Casodex and Zoladex
PSA drops to <0.01
7/2005-8/2005 5 weeks of IMRT and then HDR brachy
1/2007 Rad Oncologist orders CT scan of pelvis
because of complaints of pain in both thighs
MRI confirms pain not caused by cancer BUT
1/2007 CT scan of pelvis picks up a nodule at bottom of left lung
5/2007 CT scan of lungs shows 1/2007 nodule has grown and
there are numerous nodules on both lungs.
6/2007 Thoracic surgeon removes wedge of left lung for biopsy
6/2007 Path report says 95% chance of metastatic PCa, but she's
never seen cells like this before.
8/2007 2nd opinion at M.D. Anderson in Houston.
They confirm: mutated PCa, very rare, but seen there 2 or
3 times. Recommendation: have CT scans every 6 weeks
and watch for change. At that point start chemo and will
survive for 22 - 24 months thereafter.
PSA still undetectable, but get Lupron shot to bring T down from 27
2/2008 Trip to Houston – PSA now 0.5 and nodules larger. Lupron shot.
6/2008 Trip to Houston - PSA undetectable, T is 20 and only one nodule has grown (from 8mm to 12mm). Feeling much more confident than after 2/2008 reports

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