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Posted 8/15/2008 4:21 PM (GMT -8)
My father's psa numbers were 17 and his biopsy came back 8 out of 10. He is having a ct and bone scane Monday. From what I've read it has probably spread beyond the prosate. Hoping to have any feed back and would like it even if it's blunt.
Posted 8/15/2008 4:58 PM (GMT -8)

Hello mmllr,

Sorry to hear of your father's diagnosis. First thing is to stay calm. I was diagnosed on April 10, 2008 and I am in the midst of radiation treatment. (IMRT/IGRT) You can see from my signature that your father and I are fairly close in numbers. PSA 21.5 vs 17 and Gleason 7 (some 8 according to a second opinion) vs 8. My scans all came back negative except for some suspect lymph nodes in the pelvic area. For that reason I chose the radiation and have just completed the "full pelvic" portion and have 18 more focused on the prostate only. I am also on hormones (lupron depot 4 month). My PSA prior to beginning radiation and after 8 weeks on hormone had dropped to .82. So don't take a pass on the hormones if recommended.

You are correct that your father's numbers would indicate probability of spread. Look up "Parton Tables" at the John Hopkins site and you can input the information to get the range of probability.

Get all the facts on your father's case and do some independent research before deciding on a course of action. There are a lot of good resources National Institute of Health is a good one. Prostate Cancer Research Institute has a huge amount of data and information. A simple web search for "prostate cancer" will turn up many sites. American Cancer Society is also a good source. Do beware of the quacks promising a quick fix. This site is a good source of "been there done that" information as well as resources for other information. I have found it to be quite helpful in my decision making process. Another support site is prostatepointers.org. Good patient to patient as well as patient to physician resource. Do not be afraid to question your physicians and have a list of questions ready. Bring a notebook or tape recorder to the meetings to help keep your facts straight.

Keep a positive attitude and try not to dwell on the negative stuff too much. There is a lot of good medicine for curing and/or stalling this disease.

Take care and let us know how you and your father are doing.

Don

Posted 8/15/2008 5:14 PM (GMT -8)
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Posted 8/15/2008 5:15 PM (GMT -8)
thank you, I will keep you updated.
Posted 8/15/2008 5:21 PM (GMT -8)
Welcome mmllr.  I'd suggest to just wait and see what the scans and tests reveal before getting too deep into treatments and prognosis.  It may very well be that it is contained and nothing is outside the gland itself.  It's all iffy until further tests are done, so take a few deep breaths and wait to see what they say before dwelling on probabilities.  There may be no need for further longterm concern.  I do hope that is the case. 

Posted 8/15/2008 8:24 PM (GMT -8)

mmllr

I agree with James, don't look to far ahead. 

You might want to read my story www.gleasonscore10.com.  There were comments that sound like those your making and now things are looking very good for me.

The best to you.

Richard

Posted 8/17/2008 2:41 PM (GMT -8)
""My father's psa numbers were 17 and his biopsy came back 8 out of 10. He is having a ct and bone scane Monday. From what I've read it has probably spread beyond the prosate. Hoping to have any feed back and would like it even if it's blunt""

You need to retain a print out of the biopsy reports as they contain a lot of  information in addition to the Gleason score that can be difficult to recall later, like the number samples taken,  the number of positive samples, % of cancer in each one etc.

Unfortunately there are a lot of grey areas with PC diagnosis. For example scans will not necessarily show up small early stage mets or bone involvement. Regardless of what your additional tests indicate, Gleason 8 PC indicates an agressive high risk category cancer.

Biopsy readings are also  subjective, and what looks like Gleason 8 to one person often looks like something different to another: if you havn't already done so, the first thing to do is to have the boipsy slides sent to an expert pathologist for a 2nd reading to confirm where you stand.

There are a lot of good books on PC but it's best to read one relevant to your situation.  For someone potentially dealing with high risk PC I always suggest the book by Dr Charles Myers, " Beating Prostate Cancer: Hormonal Therapy & Diet" or Lee Nelson's publication "Prostatr Cancer Prevention and Cure".

Both authors had to deal with their own high risk PC some years ago, and provide a lot of details on their own treatment along with various other treatment options. Dr Myers has treated many patients with high risk and advanced PC since his own diagnosis 9 years ago.

I have two friends who have used hormone therapy for the past couple of years. They did not undertake  any additional local treatment because they already had bone involvement when diagnosed. Both have remained active and are doing well with few side effects. One originally had leg pain and hot spots on his bone scans, all of which has since gone, with his recent scan all clear.

The other friend had PSA of 50 and Gleason 9 when diagnosed. His latest PSA reading was .06 and he's doing well at 91 years.

 

Posted 8/17/2008 2:59 PM (GMT -8)

Just to add...

Don't jump to conclusions on any of this stuff --- its just too easy to do.  My PSA was 39, and the biopsy was 8 of 12.  I was CONVINCED it had spread prior to the bone/ct scan.  I hadn't.  I'm more than 2 years post-diagonosis and have a decent string of undectables as my signature lines tell.

PCa is a "hurry up and wait" game.    First your dad needs to get those scans, then decide on treatment.  If you do surgery, you wait for the pathology report, thne wait several weeks for a meaningful PSA reading post-treatment.

Stay cool... and good luck!

Posted 8/17/2008 6:55 PM (GMT -8)
Hi mmllr,

My father's PSA was only 10.6 but his Gleason score was 5+5=10 (very aggressive). His pathology showed that there was a very high percentage in all cores. By all reasoning he should have metastasized, but it was contained in the prostate. He had brachy therapy (AKA radioactive seed therapy) and had great results.

Until you know that you have something to worry about, you have to live in a sort of denial. As far as you know right now there was no spread of the PCa to anywhere else. Hold on to that until you know for certain that it is not true. Hang in there!


Jim
Posted 8/17/2008 7:28 PM (GMT -8)
Hi mmllr,
Aside from the great advice already given, I lend my hand in support also. My numbers were close to your fathers. And while my PSA was 19.8, Gleason 7, and after surgery revealed that my disease had spread beyond the prostate, I am doing well, and have managed to maintain a 17 month remission so far. I have become a student in this disease and over the last couple years I have experienced quite a bit with it, too. Your father may have contained disease, and that is what we all hope for. The most important thing is that you keep reading and learning, and hopefully he is learning about it as well. Learning as much as possible will help make whatever decision he makes about treatment easier and with good commitment to it. You have my prayers that it's contained and defeated. Stay positive!

Tony
Posted 8/18/2008 7:47 AM (GMT -8)
As with what others said, don't jump to conclusions. My father had a psa of 75!! and gleason 8, but there were no indications of spreading, so we went ahead with surgery (12 days ago) and the post-surgical path report showed no lymph spread and all negative margins. So, don't let the numbers fool you.
Posted 8/20/2008 6:13 AM (GMT -8)
Wow! What a lot of incredible advice. I agree with what others have said, "don't jump to conclusions". I was on the opposite side of your situation, and believed that based on my father's numbers that he shouldn't have had any spread and was devastated by the pathology report which showed lymph node involvement. As Aus stated, PCa is very gray. You have to take one test at a time and base your decisions on the information you have. Don't look back. Do what you have to do and know that you are making the best decision with the information given. Best wishes!
Posted 8/21/2008 1:41 PM (GMT -8)
My husband was diagnosed with Stage one prostate cancer in July of 2000. After going through the radiation treatments, he went into remission for three yrs and even with 3 month psa tests, his cancer reached a stage 4 in 2003. Because he had the radiation treatments, he was unable to have surgery to remove the prostate because he was advised the dangers were too great with all the scar tissue and burning around the prostate. We opted for the surgery to freeze the cancer cells. That put him in remission for another three yrs. At this time, he has advanced prostate cancer and is now taking lupron depot (hormone treatments). We pray this will do the trick for a while longer. He does go to a support group and it has helped his depression. I was advised of this site by my daughter and thought I would check it out. Thanks for listening.
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