Incontinence Relapse

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RBinCountry
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 270
   Posted 8/28/2008 7:45 AM (GMT -6)   
I thought when I was about 12 weeks out of surgery that I was drying up.  In fact I bragged to my wife that I had a really good day and expected the next day to be completely dry.  Now 2 & 1/2 weeks later it seems I am experiencing not only no improvement, but to some degree a relapse.  Curious as to whether others have experienced the same.  Also, when you did go dry did it suddenly happen or was it a progressive situation?  Thanks & will the rain never end???
 
 
Age 61
Original data - pre-operation
PSA: 5.1
T1C clinical diagnosis, Needle biopsy - 10 cores, Gleason 7 = 3+4 in 1 core (40%), 7 cores Gleason 6 = 3+3 ranging from 5% to 12%
All scans negative
Lupron administered 4/9/2008 for 4 months (with idea I would undergo external beam radiation followed by seed implants - then I changed my mind).
Robotic DiVinci surgery - Dr. Fagin (Austin) May 19th
Post operative - pathology
pT2c NX MX
Gleason 3+4
Margins - negative
Extraprostatic extension - negative
seminal vesicle invasion - uninvolved
1st Post PSA .04

Steve n Dallas
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2008
Total Posts : 4840
   Posted 8/28/2008 8:38 AM (GMT -6)   
I have days that seem to be drier then others...Heck, I have "moments" that seem better...Getting out of my Lazyboy recliner is the chair most likely to cause me to squirt....Then again, it doesn't always happen.
 

Alcohol aka muscel relaxer can contribute to it and I'd imagine there are other foods and such that can get in the way.


Age 53   - 5'11'   205lbs
Overall Heath Condition - Good
PSA - July 07 & Jan 08 -> 1.3
Gleason - 6
(biopsy done March 4, 2008-> 2 of 12)
 
06/25/08 - Da Vinci robotic laparoscopy


Frank1205
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 308
   Posted 8/28/2008 1:04 PM (GMT -6)   

I here ya.  I had a similar situation were I was down to one pad (dry) and went and golfed for 18 holes.  Felt great but leaked like a cheap faucet.  O man I went through several pads.  Oh and those water holes, Jeeze what the heck. 

Did you do any strenous activity, twisting motions, bending motions,  eat lots of water melon or other drinks. 

Hang in there this too is normal and will just simply get better as time goes by, it will.  I would not worry at all about what happened.  Does not sound like a relapse to me just a heavier day.

All the best,

Frank

 

 


Diagnosed 01-08-08 @ 53 years old 
DRE normal , 2004 Biospy negative - 2008 Biopsy positive (01-08-08)
10 cores, 1 positive and at 1% of that one core
PSA @ surgery 6 
Bone and Ct scans negative
clinicaly Staged at T1C - Gleason 3+3 = 6
Robotic Da Vinci performed March 27th, 2008
University of Chicago,Hospital stay 30 hours - Catheter out in 7 days  normaly expected leakage Erectile function better with Viagra
Post Pathology T2C, Gleason 7, 10 % of both portions of prostate, Seminal vessels clear, fat tissue clear,Tumor on top of prostate. 1 positve margin measureing less than .5 ml at urethra and bladder..
Six week PSA < 0.1 , 4 month PSA <.05 Gen II test.  Urologist recomends to hold off on Radiation and watch PSA closely. Oncologist and Radiation Oncologist seem to lean to doing pre-emptive radiation.Uroligist says 50/50 chance of PSA re-occurence.  
I have decided to hold off and see for 3 months.
Next PSA October...
 
 
 
 


RBinCountry
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 270
   Posted 8/28/2008 1:13 PM (GMT -6)   
Frank,
You are right about the standing, twisting, and doing. Last night I was edging the lawn, cutting weeds, etc.. by the time I got through I was leaking like a faucet with a bad washer. I know I must be patient. I wish you the best!

Age 61
Original data - pre-operation
PSA: 5.1
T1C clinical diagnosis, Needle biopsy - 10 cores, Gleason 7 = 3+4 in 1 core (40%), 7 cores Gleason 6 = 3+3 ranging from 5% to 12%
All scans negative
Lupron administered 4/9/2008 for 4 months (with idea I would undergo external beam radiation followed by seed implants - then I changed my mind).
Robotic DiVinci surgery - Dr. Fagin (Austin) May 19th
Post operative - pathology
pT2c NX MX
Gleason 3+4
Margins - negative
Extraprostatic extension - negative
seminal vesicle invasion - uninvolved
1st Post PSA .04

Jetlagged
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 29
   Posted 8/28/2008 1:18 PM (GMT -6)   
Funny you should bring this up. After almost a month of post-RRP urinary Hell, I all of a sudden went from as many as 7 pads a day down to one, which is where I've been pretty much for the last seven months since. Oddly enough my doctor says that's impossible, that it is linear...gotta love their arrogance and myopia at times. On a side note he also says that kegals and the vacuum pump are a "waste of time", and while I think he's wrong on many post-surgical counts he apparently did a good job on the RRP as I had no complications and flawless pathology/PSA history, so whatever. Some days are better than others, but most of the time it's one pad every 24 hours, much of the time it seems to contain very little, just post-urination dribble. I have yet to weigh them, but they are virtually the same thickness after 24 hours so it can't be too much and much of what is there may well be sweat.

Long story longer, at the three month mark I fulfilled a promise to my family (that if I survived and got a good pathology/first PSA) that we'd go to Disneyland for three days (I have a 9 and 2 year-old). Well, we went, and after the first very long day I relapsed to up to three pads a day for about two weeks. It then returned to one pad and has remained unchanged since until the last couple of days when I likely could have been padless. Now I know that some advocate going padless at home both to test the waters so to speak and to ween one's self off the psychological dependance on pads. It's almost like seatbelts...I'd be pretty anxious even backing out of the driveway without one. While trying to maintain positive vibes, I am wondering/hoping that this may be another incremental gain. While it's not a huge hassle wearing these things, it would be a huge QOL gain to drop them for good.

From what I've read, most guys see improvement by 6 months on the outside, and few see significant improvement beyond that time. ANybody seen improvement up to and beyond a year?
Robotic RP 12/07
Age 46
Pre-surgical PSA 5.02
Bone scan/Chest X-ray clear
All margins, seminal vesicles, 17 lymphs clear
3+4=7
Three Post-surgical PSA's <0.01


kw
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 883
   Posted 8/28/2008 11:48 PM (GMT -6)   
I was told my the head of Urology at OU Medical Center that at 9 months post op I was probably where I was going to stay. But I still tried everything else before going for the AUS.
Just keep workin at it and follow what you think is best for you.
KW
    43 at Dx and Surgery
    PSA 5.7, Biopsy 3 of 12 positive (up to 75%) all on left side of prostate, Gleason 7
    RRP on Oct. 17, 2006 - Nerves on right side saved. All Lab's clear. 
    Cathiter in for 28 days due to complications in healing. Removed Nov. 9, 2006
    First Post op PSA on Dec. 11, 2006  Undetectable 0.00.
    ED workable and usable with Viagra.
    Feb. 20th, 2007 - Feb. 4th, 2008  Cystoscope, Two Collagen injections,Second Opinion Consultation for Incontinance at OU Medical Center, Bio-Feedback training, Chiropractic, Accupuncture  to try to resolve ongoing incontinance (4-6 pads a day)  All PSA's 0.00.
    Feb. 22nd, 2008 - Surgery to install the AMS AdVance Male Sling.
    March 27th, 2008 - Sling not working, Little or no improvement.
    April 18, 2008 - Collagen injection.  Back to using 4-6 full pads a day within a week.
    May 14, 2008 - Another collagen injection to try to Band-Aid the leaking for our June cruise.  Will start making conusultation appiontments for AUS after we return.
    July 14th, 2008 - AUS consultation with Dr. Morey at UT Southwestern (Dallas).
    July 30, PSA 0.00.
    Aug. 22nd, 2008 - AUS Surgery by Dr. Morey
    Oct. 6th, 2008 - AUS Activation by Dr. Morey
     


Paul1959
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 598
   Posted 8/29/2008 10:00 AM (GMT -6)   
Relapses are normal and common. stress, fatigue ( even long term), psychological factors will all affect continence. Don't worry about it. it will come back. I sense I was drying up. I knew when the day came that i could go padless. i did it for most of the day, but wore one that evening from dinnertime onward...and sure enough, fatigue caught up with me. It did that for a few days and never looked back.
Paul
47 at Diagnosis.
Father died of Pca 4/07 at 86.
1/06 PSA 3.15
1/07 PSA 4.6      (Biopsy 3/07 just suspicious)
10/07 PSA 5.06   (Biopsy 11/07  1 of 12 with 8% involvment) (1mm)
Da Vinci surgery Jan 5, '08 at Mt. Sinai Hosp. NYC  www.roboticoncology.com
Saved both nerve bundles.
Path Report:  Stage T2cNxMx
-Gleason (3+3)6
-totally contained to prostate,
-10% involvement in L & R Mid lobes
PSA 0 at six weeks
Pad free on March 14 - (10 weeks.)
ED - Take 100mg viagra every night.
Totally usable erections at 10 weeks.
 
 


kcragman
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2008
Total Posts : 240
   Posted 8/30/2008 9:56 PM (GMT -6)   
I am almost 17 weeks post op, and I usually go thru 7 pads a day - but they are getting lighter, and I am experimenting with lighter pads during the weekends. I'll only use 4 -5 pads on the weekends.

While I can document the improvement with urine loss measured in grams, about once every week or two I'll still have a really bad day, where I just feel wet and crappy all day. I have not been able to tie it to anything - tiredness or over drinking or whatever. I seem to have days where I just cannot stop the faucet from dripping no matter what I do.

But - it is getting better.

kcragman
Age: 52
March 2006: PSA 2.5

Dec 2007: PSA taken for insurance application. I did not see the results until late Jan '08 - after I was rejected. Their lab said PSA 4.5. PSA again in Feb '08: 3.7.

March 2008: Biopsy. Gleason 7 (4+3) 12 cores taken. 5 on the left side were cancerous and the 6th did not look good.

May 5, 2008: Da Vinci robotic laparoscopy at GW Hospital, Washington DC.

Post op: Gleason 9 (4+5). 15% of prostate involved. Stage: pT3a. Negative margins. Lymph nodes and associated glands all appear to be cancer free.

July 2008: PSA at 7 weeks was undetectable.
August 2008: PSA at 14 weeks (3 months) was undetectable.

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