Urethra spasms

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DJBearGuy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 714
   Posted 12/21/2008 5:48 PM (GMT -6)   
I've just realized that my urethra has been spasming. I had thought it was the catheter moving around, but it has definitely happened when there was no catheter motion. Not often, maybe once per hour or so. I've read people post about bladder spasms--is that the same thing? My pain is very near the tip.
DJ

Age 53
PSA 2007 about 2
PSA 2008 4.3
Diagnosed September 2008.
Biopsy: 6 of 12 cores positive
Gleason 4+3 = 7
CT and Bone scan negative
Da Vinci surgery at City of Hope December 8, 2008
Radical prostatectomy and lymph node dissection
Catheter removed on 7th day, replaced on 8th day
pT2c
lymph nodes negative
"microscopic margins"


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25364
   Posted 12/21/2008 8:52 PM (GMT -6)   
dj,

Now on my catheter for 5 1/2 weeks, feel I am king of bladder spasms. Your doctor can prescribe an inexpensive drug that really helps, at least of me, ditropan, may have it spelled wrong. They had me taking it 3 - 4 times a day. Mine started about the start of the 3rd week on the cath. Sometimes a dozen or more a day, sometimes, left me in tears, and while the pain starts in the bladder area, it shoots up with great pressure through the uretha and up the tip of my penis. What also helped when I had them so bad, was to lay down flat on my back, i.e. a sofa or bed, and try to relax. Talk to your dr, there's no need to for you to have to suffer from those, the med. only cost like 4 or 8 bucks at Walmart, can't remember. Hope you do better soon from that.

David in SC
Age 56, 56 at DX
 
PSA 2007 5.8
PSA 9-2008 14.9
 
3rd Biopsy 9-2008 Positive
7 of 7 cores positive, ranging from 40 - 90%
2 tumours noted, Gleason 4+3 and 3+4
 
Open RP surgery completed on Friday, November 14, 2008 at
St. Francis Hospital, Greenville, SC, Dr. Ronald Smith - Surgeon,
Non-nerve sparing, 4 days in hospital, staples removed 11/24/8,
Catheter out on 12/15/8 on day 32.  Day 33, urine stopped flowing, new catheter put in 12/16/08 - uncertain of what went wrong.
 
Post-surgery Pathlogy Report:
Gleason 3+4=7, pT2c pN0 pMx, Prostate 42 grams, tumor 20% cancer
Contained in capsular, neg. margins apex, bladder neck, right lobe, neg. in seminal vessels and lymph nodes. Left lobe: infiltrating tumor miscroscopically appears to extend to marked left posterior margin
 
First PSA Post Surgery  Scheduled for 1/5/9
 
 


DJBearGuy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 714
   Posted 12/21/2008 8:56 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks! It hasn't been bad so far, but the trend seems to be getting worse. I wonder if they continue after the catheter comes out.
DJ

Age 53
PSA 2007 about 2
PSA 2008 4.3
Diagnosed September 2008.
Biopsy: 6 of 12 cores positive
Gleason 4+3 = 7
CT and Bone scan negative
Da Vinci surgery at City of Hope December 8, 2008
Radical prostatectomy and lymph node dissection
Catheter removed on 7th day, replaced on 8th day
pT2c
lymph nodes negative
"microscopic margins"


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25364
   Posted 12/22/2008 7:35 AM (GMT -6)   
As a general rule, after the cath is out, you shouldn't be having the problem, that is what my doctor said, but then there are always exceptions.

David
Age 56, 56 at DX
 
PSA 2007 5.8
PSA 9-2008 14.9
 
3rd Biopsy 9-2008 Positive
7 of 7 cores positive, ranging from 40 - 90%
2 tumours noted, Gleason 4+3 and 3+4
 
Open RP surgery completed on Friday, November 14, 2008 at
St. Francis Hospital, Greenville, SC, Dr. Ronald Smith - Surgeon,
Non-nerve sparing, 4 days in hospital, staples removed 11/24/8,
Catheter out on 12/15/8 on day 32.  Day 33, urine stopped flowing, new catheter put in 12/16/08 - uncertain of what went wrong.
 
Post-surgery Pathlogy Report:
Gleason 3+4=7, pT2c pN0 pMx, Prostate 42 grams, tumor 20% cancer
Contained in capsular, neg. margins apex, bladder neck, right lobe, neg. in seminal vessels and lymph nodes. Left lobe: infiltrating tumor miscroscopically appears to extend to marked left posterior margin
 
First PSA Post Surgery  Scheduled for 1/5/9
 
 


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25364
   Posted 12/22/2008 7:35 AM (GMT -6)   
As a general rule, after the cath is out, you shouldn't be having the problem, that is what my doctor said, but then there are always exceptions.

David
Age 56, 56 at DX
 
PSA 2007 5.8
PSA 9-2008 14.9
 
3rd Biopsy 9-2008 Positive
7 of 7 cores positive, ranging from 40 - 90%
2 tumours noted, Gleason 4+3 and 3+4
 
Open RP surgery completed on Friday, November 14, 2008 at
St. Francis Hospital, Greenville, SC, Dr. Ronald Smith - Surgeon,
Non-nerve sparing, 4 days in hospital, staples removed 11/24/8,
Catheter out on 12/15/8 on day 32.  Day 33, urine stopped flowing, new catheter put in 12/16/08 - uncertain of what went wrong.
 
Post-surgery Pathlogy Report:
Gleason 3+4=7, pT2c pN0 pMx, Prostate 42 grams, tumor 20% cancer
Contained in capsular, neg. margins apex, bladder neck, right lobe, neg. in seminal vessels and lymph nodes. Left lobe: infiltrating tumor miscroscopically appears to extend to marked left posterior margin
 
First PSA Post Surgery  Scheduled for 1/5/9
 
 


kcragman
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2008
Total Posts : 240
   Posted 12/22/2008 8:59 AM (GMT -6)   
Of course, the only bladder spasm I ever had - and it was crusher - came about 12 hours after I had my catheter removed. My doctor had not mentioned any kind of spasms so I was caught completely by surprise, and merely thought I was going to die right there on the bathroom floor. I only had one, and I did not go though anything like what you guys are talking about.

From other posts I've seen here, it appears that the drug Purgatory mentions works pretty well.

Hang in there and I'm wishing you the best of luck. Going through this is bad enough without additional complications.

kcragman
Age: 52
March 2006: PSA 2.5

Dec 2007: PSA taken for insurance application. I did not see the results until late Jan '08 - after I was rejected. Their lab said PSA 4.5. PSA again in Feb '08: 3.7.

March 2008: Biopsy. Gleason 7 (4+3) 12 cores taken. 5 on the left side were cancerous and the 6th was suspect.  

May 5, 2008: Da Vinci robotic laparoscopy at GW Hospital, Washington DC.

Post op: Gleason 9 (4+5). 15% of prostate involved. Stage: pT3a. Negative margins. Lymph nodes and associated glands all appear to be cancer free.

July 2008: PSA at 7 weeks was undetectable.
August 2008: PSA at 14 weeks (3 months) was undetectable.
Nov 2008: PSA at 6 months was undetectable.


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25364
   Posted 12/22/2008 9:27 AM (GMT -6)   
Correct drug name: oxybutynin or ditropan, I was taking 5mg original every 8 hours, then when it got worse, every 6 hours. It really does the job well. Hope this helps.

David
Age 56, 56 at DX
 
PSA 2007 5.8
PSA 9-2008 14.9
 
3rd Biopsy 9-2008 Positive
7 of 7 cores positive, ranging from 40 - 90%
2 tumours noted, Gleason 4+3 and 3+4
 
Open RP surgery completed on Friday, November 14, 2008 at
St. Francis Hospital, Greenville, SC, Dr. Ronald Smith - Surgeon,
Non-nerve sparing, 4 days in hospital, staples removed 11/24/8,
Catheter out on 12/15/8 on day 32.  Day 33, urine stopped flowing, new catheter put in 12/16/08 - uncertain of what went wrong.
 
Post-surgery Pathlogy Report:
Gleason 3+4=7, pT2c pN0 pMx, Prostate 42 grams, tumor 20% cancer
Contained in capsular, neg. margins apex, bladder neck, right lobe, neg. in seminal vessels and lymph nodes. Left lobe: infiltrating tumor miscroscopically appears to extend to marked left posterior margin
 
First PSA Post Surgery  Scheduled for 1/5/9
 
 


DJBearGuy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 714
   Posted 12/22/2008 8:41 PM (GMT -6)   

David,

My spasms haven't been so bad--painful, but they only last a second. Yesterday several, today only one.

On the other hand, been feeling generally lousy today. Hope tomorrow is better.

 

 


DJ

Age 53
PSA 2007 about 2
PSA 2008 4.3
Diagnosed September 2008.
Biopsy: 6 of 12 cores positive
Gleason 4+3 = 7
CT and Bone scan negative
Da Vinci surgery at City of Hope December 8, 2008
Radical prostatectomy and lymph node dissection
Catheter removed on 7th day, replaced on 8th day
pT2c
lymph nodes negative
"microscopic margins"


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25364
   Posted 12/23/2008 7:30 AM (GMT -6)   
DJ, sorry you are having them at all, yours sounds mild compared to what I have experienced, had several yesterday afternoon, lasting as long as 1 1/2 to 3 minutes, would have to go sit down on the toliet and just hold the walls while they passed. Hoping today will be better for me as I don't want to go back on the med, tempting as it is, until I can get this tube out of me next Monday.

Hope you feel better today, I know we all have our random periods of just feeling crappy regardless of the circumstances. Yesterday was a real up day for me, and I am thankful to have experienced even that one lovely day. Only thinking the best for you.

David
Age 56, 56 at DX
 
PSA 2007 5.8
PSA 9-2008 14.9
 
3rd Biopsy 9-2008 Positive
7 of 7 cores positive, ranging from 40 - 90%
2 tumours noted, Gleason 4+3 and 3+4
 
Open RP surgery completed on Friday, November 14, 2008 at
St. Francis Hospital, Greenville, SC, Dr. Ronald Smith - Surgeon,
Non-nerve sparing, 4 days in hospital, staples removed 11/24/8,
Catheter out on 12/15/8 on day 32.  Day 33, urine stopped flowing, new catheter put in 12/16/08 - uncertain of what went wrong.
 
Post-surgery Pathlogy Report:
Gleason 3+4=7, pT2c pN0 pMx, Prostate 42 grams, tumor 20% cancer
Contained in capsular, neg. margins apex, bladder neck, right lobe, neg. in seminal vessels and lymph nodes. Left lobe: infiltrating tumor miscroscopically appears to extend to marked left posterior margin
 
First PSA Post Surgery  Scheduled for 1/5/9
 
 


pigeonflyer
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 85
   Posted 11/6/2009 4:46 PM (GMT -6)   
had prostate removed in sept 09. after seven days cather was removed. did not make the day. had to get cather back in .i could urinate very little and urethal spasms liked to kill me. pain in the head of penis. ive had the cather out several times since and still cant pee well. going on five weeks with cather.going to get a cystoscope to see what the problem might be. any body with these problems to guide me will sure be of help.                                                     pluged up                                                                                                                                                      

Buzzdriver
New Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 13
   Posted 11/7/2009 11:35 AM (GMT -6)   
Plugedup:
 
Had very similar experience - had great success with physical therapy and myofacial massage of the PC floor muscles.  I was trying so hard NOT to pee my pants that I wound up with all those muscles in a knot.  These days, I'm keeping TENA in business, but don't have to catheter (as much) to get empty.  Cystoscope doesn't really show this kind of muscular tension issue.
 
Good luck.
 
Buzz 
57 Now
Age 54 at DX.  Gleason 6, PSA 4.2, a .78 rise in one year. 
 
Had High Dose rate brachytherapy at California Endocurie Therapy Center in Oakland, CA in February of '06.  Very successful - PSA came down quickly and steadily to current .08.  No problems.
 
Developed flow restriction in summer of '08 - had bladder neck resection in March of '09 - immediately incontinent, immediately in severe and constant pain, ultimately left job because I could not function because of pain and incontinence.
 
Started hyperbaric oxygen therapy (HBOT) three weeks ago - pain virtually gone, blood in urine down to "trace" levels, still pretty leaky.  HBOT has been a godsend with respect to reducing the pain! 
 
Considering sling procedure to get control of leakage. 
 


pigeonflyer
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 85
   Posted 11/7/2009 6:07 PM (GMT -6)   
buzzdriver going to get the scope to see whats pluged. hope it is not painful.doc said no anestisia. unbelievabley i cant wait.get it moving. it takes too lomg to get a dr. appointment. ill have this on nov. 10 2009 thanks for your thoughts neil ms.

Buzzdriver
New Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 13
   Posted 11/7/2009 9:14 PM (GMT -6)   

Plugedup:

Hang in there - the best way to deal with the scoping is (in my experience) relaxing your midsection and "Lamaze" style breathing - my missus had great fun swapping to the coach role for this!

But do ask your doc about PT - I still have some of the cramps and spasms, but they are getting more tolerable and I am WAY better on leakage. 

Be well...


57 Now
Age 54 at DX.  Gleason 6, PSA 4.2, a .78 rise in one year. 
 
Had High Dose rate brachytherapy at California Endocurie Therapy Center in Oakland, CA in February of '06.  Very successful - PSA came down quickly and steadily to current .08.  No problems.
 
Developed flow restriction in summer of '08 - had bladder neck resection in March of '09 - immediately incontinent, immediately in severe and constant pain, ultimately left job because I could not function because of pain and incontinence.
 
Started hyperbaric oxygen therapy (HBOT) three weeks ago - pain virtually gone, blood in urine down to "trace" levels, still pretty leaky.  HBOT has been a godsend with respect to reducing the pain! 
 
Considering sling procedure to get control of leakage. 
 


pigeonflyer
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 85
   Posted 11/8/2009 7:57 AM (GMT -6)   
buzz, purgatory, thanks for all the info. gives me part of the scoop before i get to experience it myself. wating for tuesday. hope things work out. you guys give me great support.

neil

gregory m helman
New Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 16
   Posted 11/11/2009 6:30 PM (GMT -6)   
those spasms i had when i got home from the hospital were not to bad. soon as i got in the house they started.as long as i am laying or sitting down i have no problems,but moving around started them. about 6 to 10 times a day.the dr. says the cathereter is touching or rubbing or trying reject the cath.my spasms lasted about 10 to 15 seconds.had cath in for 10 days.
  age 52
had rectal exam and found prostrate nodule detected.
psa was .097 before exam.
referred to urologist and also rectal exam , but couldn't feel anything.
we discussed about biopsy to be on safe side.
Final   Diagnosis of biopsy
specimen  is received in formalin in 8 parts labeled A-H.
 
 
 
A-G ------ no atypia or malignancy found.
H---- prostrate needle biopsy, left anterior horn:   Adenocarcarcinoma,
gleason score 3 + 4= 7,    4 mm in greatest linear dimension, involving approximately 20% of tissue from this site. less than 1ml cancer and less 1% of gland involved.
 
 
prostrate surgery done 7/29/2009 -- radical perineal surgery.
robotic was out of the question due to previous surgeries, hernia repair,gall bladder,had mesh put in.
 before surgery , psa was at 0.97.
09/2009 psa ---- 0.55
10/2009 ----- 0.39
11/2009 ------- 0.45
10 days with foley  cathereter
drain tube for 2  days
hospital stay--- 2 1/2 days
 had trouble with bowl movements constipated due to pain meds .
on stool softners
 after cath was out 2 pads a day
6 weeks later just 1 pad a day.
slight leakage , when lifting, sneeziing
 
post op pathology report
 
comment
Macroscopic
specimen type - radical perineal prostatectomy
specimen is intact
pre op psa level 0.97/ng/ml
other organs-seminal vesicle(s)
microscopic --tumor site-1 nodule
nodule#1- involves left lateral mid and left lateral
dimensions--0.6 x 0.2 x 0.6 cm
Histologic type------ Adenocarinoma
histologic grade---gleason
primary pattern is-grade 3 : single acini of variable size and seperation , cribriform and papillary patterns
Secondary pattern is: grade 4 : irregular masses of acini and fused epithelium , can show clear cells
gleason score (primary + secondary)  = 7 : Moderately poorly differentiated
 
Tumor Quantitation:
preportion of prostrate involved by tumor =<1 %
estimated tumor volume(% involved by tumor x prifixation vol) =< 1 ml
 
extraprostaic extention - absent
seminal vesicle invasion- absent
perineural invasion - absent
blood /lymphatic vessel invasion --absent
extent of invasion : pT2a: tumor involves < one half of one lobe
regional lyph nodes: NX; cannot be assessed
 
margins :
 
margins involved by tumor : anterior left lateral mid
margin involvement is extensive (> 1 HPF)
beingn prostatc acini are present at margins , not in area of tumor
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


DJBearGuy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 714
   Posted 11/12/2009 8:50 AM (GMT -6)   
plugedup, how did your scope procedure go? Hopefully not too bad. My doc talked about doing it but never got to that point, only did the X-ray, which was interesting to watch.

Didn't see Purgatory's replies to you, but he's the expert on long term catheterization, that's for sure.

DJ
Diagnosis at age 53. PSA 2007 about 2; PSA 2008 4.3
Biopsy September 2008: 6 of 12 cores positive; Gleason 4+3 = 7
CT and Bone scan negative
Da Vinci surgery at City of Hope December 8, 2008
Radical prostatectomy and lymph node dissection
Catheter out on 7th day, replaced on 8th day, out again 14th day following negative cystogram
Pathology: pT2c; lymph nodes negative; margins involved; 41 grams, 8% involved by tumor; same Gleason 4+3=7
PSA 1/22/08 non-detectable! 8-)
4/23/09, 07/30/09 still undetectable!


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25364
   Posted 11/12/2009 9:02 AM (GMT -6)   
Gee, saw this post come up again, as I am white with pain from an intense spasms. Despite having this SP catheter in for some 45 day now, the spasms keep rolling on, and yes, I take the Ditropan 3-4 times a day. This is the part I hate most of all ,because they hurt like hell, feel like I m going to implode in my bladder. With the SP cath, it allows some leakage to make its way through my penis because of the intense pressure. Been wetting myself a bit lately cant wear briefs with a pad, because they interfere with the SP.

Surely these endless spasms are some kind of payback for something in my life. They make this part of my journey a living hell.

David in SC
Age: 57, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 7/08 12.3, 9/08 14.5, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 - 7/7 Positive, 40-90% Cancer, Gleason 4+3
Open RP: 11/08, Rht nerves saved, 4 days in hospt, on catheters for 63 days, 5th one out 1/09
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin
Post Surgery  PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Latest: 7/9 met 2 rad. oncl, 7/9 cath #6 - blockage, 8/9 2nd corr surgery, 8/9 cath #7 out  38 days, 9/9 - met 3rd rad. oncl., mapped  9/9, 10/1 - 3rd corr. surgery - SP cath/hard dialation, 10/5 - began IMRT SRT - 39 sess/72 gys cath #8 33 days, 11/2- SP Cath #9 in place


pigeonflyer
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 85
   Posted 11/12/2009 3:12 PM (GMT -6)   
hey dj.     had cysto on tues. didnt hurt at all. i find that if you dont tense up all goes smooth. my doc didnt find any obstruction that would cause me not to urinate but saw a small hump where bladder neck was sewn back togrther. she said it was no concern and she would not consider cutting it out the way . first of all i have severe spasms,would you call them ureatea spasms or bladder spasms, when the cather is out. second doc said when i try to p the spasms would hurt so bad my mind was telling my body to shut the urine off, with would cause me more pain. i dont know about that. i will get the cather out tomorrow.also i did a flourodynamics test and she said that was all normal. when i urinated out the contrast it was the best piss i took sinse i been dealing with the cather out. i hope she is right. i have condifience for tomorrow. also i will be taught to self cather if things go wrong so i will not have to go to er. is this a good idea? when the pain comes from a full bladder i think self cath will be no problem. so thats where i stand now.    neil

DJBearGuy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 714
   Posted 11/12/2009 6:55 PM (GMT -6)   
plugedup,

As is written up here somewhere, I, had to have my catheter put back in after less than a day. After that, for the next visit I was hoping they'd let me self-cath, to avoid that trip to the ER. But, they told me that they didn't want to do that, since the tissues were still healing and I might puncture myself. Ouch. But I don't know, it seems like you just have to be a careful person. I would think that if you go slow, you could tell if you were about to pierce yourself. Anyway I was lucky to do fine after it came out the second time. They did have me take ibuprofen in case there was inflammation that might have caused the blockage.

David, I'm sorry to hear you're still in so much pain. I don't know about that being a payback. Maybe it's because you're an artist.

DJ
Diagnosis at age 53. PSA 2007 about 2; PSA 2008 4.3
Biopsy September 2008: 6 of 12 cores positive; Gleason 4+3 = 7
CT and Bone scan negative
Da Vinci surgery at City of Hope December 8, 2008
Radical prostatectomy and lymph node dissection
Catheter out on 7th day, replaced on 8th day, out again 14th day following negative cystogram
Pathology: pT2c; lymph nodes negative; margins involved; 41 grams, 8% involved by tumor; same Gleason 4+3=7
PSA 1/22/08 non-detectable! 8-)
4/23/09, 07/30/09 still undetectable!


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25364
   Posted 11/12/2009 7:19 PM (GMT -6)   
thanks dj, lately, the purgatory name is very fitting ,lol
Age: 57, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 7/08 12.3, 9/08 14.5, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 - 7/7 Positive, 40-90% Cancer, Gleason 4+3
Open RP: 11/08, Rht nerves saved, 4 days in hospt, on catheters for 63 days, 5th one out 1/09
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin
Post Surgery  PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Latest: 7/9 met 2 rad. oncl, 7/9 cath #6 - blockage, 8/9 2nd corr surgery, 8/9 cath #7 out  38 days, 9/9 - met 3rd rad. oncl., mapped  9/9, 10/1 - 3rd corr. surgery - SP cath/hard dialation, 10/5 - began IMRT SRT - 39 sess/72 gys cath #8 33 days, 11/2- SP Cath #9 in place

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