One nerve bundle or two: a strange tale

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Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 12/22/2008 10:46 AM (GMT -6)   
Last Tuesday evening, while cuddling with my wife before she went to sleep, I experienced something I did not expect, I had what I would est. to be a 50-75% erection.  I felt weird down there and checked with my hand a couple of times, it seemed convincing.  My wife verified, that yes indeed, the lil fellow for whatever reason, had some life.  We purposely didn't pursue anything and away it went.
 
I mentioned that to my doctor today, and he seemed amazed. I had him refresh my memory of the surgery, he said again, it was non-nerve sparing.  He said for  the left side was surgically removed for sure, and the right side, was badly scarred and damaged anyhow, and due to the difficulty of the surgery, they considered it removed, at least in a technical sense.
 
Regardless, he said it was amazing that I experienced anything natural down there, with what was removed, and at that point, only 4 1/2 weeks out.  I assured him we were not mistaken on what was felt, so the dr. said we should be encouraged about that for future reference. Anything can happen, apperently, in this strange world of PC.  Just thought it might be an encouragement to others here.
 
David
Age 56, 56 at DX
 
PSA 2007 5.8
PSA 9-2008 14.9
 
3rd Biopsy 9-2008 Positive
7 of 7 cores positive, ranging from 40 - 90%
2 tumours noted, Gleason 4+3 and 3+4
 
Open RP surgery completed on Friday, November 14, 2008 at
St. Francis Hospital, Greenville, SC, Dr. Ronald Smith - Surgeon,
Non-nerve sparing, 4 days in hospital, staples removed 11/24/8,
Catheter out on 12/15/8 on day 32.  Day 33, urine stopped flowing, new catheter put in 12/16/08 - uncertain of what went wrong.
 
Post-surgery Pathlogy Report:
Gleason 3+4=7, pT2c pN0 pMx, Prostate 42 grams, tumor 20% cancer
Contained in capsular, neg. margins apex, bladder neck, right lobe, neg. in seminal vessels and lymph nodes. Left lobe: infiltrating tumor miscroscopically appears to extend to marked left posterior margin
 
First PSA Post Surgery  Scheduled for 1/5/9
 
 


DJBearGuy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 755
   Posted 12/22/2008 1:12 PM (GMT -6)   
Maybe those right side nerves are fighters.

Good luck!
DJ

Age 53
PSA 2007 about 2
PSA 2008 4.3
Diagnosed September 2008.
Biopsy: 6 of 12 cores positive
Gleason 4+3 = 7
CT and Bone scan negative
Da Vinci surgery at City of Hope December 8, 2008
Radical prostatectomy and lymph node dissection
Catheter removed on 7th day, replaced on 8th day
pT2c
lymph nodes negative
"microscopic margins"


coxjajb
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 184
   Posted 12/22/2008 2:46 PM (GMT -6)   
That's good news. Does your doctor talk about giving you an Rx for ED when you get the cath out?  You never know, you might just need a little jump start to be at 100%.


Age 50
Pre - Op PSA, 4.3
Gleason 3+4=7
Stage T1C
da Vinci Prostatectomy 8/1/08
No issues with incontinence since day 1 after catheter removal
ED, need a little help from Levitra
First post op PSA 11/11/08, 0.00

Post Edited (coxjajb) : 12/22/2008 12:50:58 PM (GMT-7)


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 12/22/2008 3:53 PM (GMT -6)   
Cox,

That sounds like a wonderfull but ambitious thought at this point. That one evening in reference, was the one and only evening the cath was out. And yes, at our next visit in a week, he said we could start talking about the ED side.

Thanks, David

PS At the time, that momentary familiar feeling did give me, us, a glimmer that perhaps in the ED department, that perhaps it wasn't as hopeless as I felt at the time.
Age 56, 56 at DX
 
PSA 2007 5.8
PSA 9-2008 14.9
 
3rd Biopsy 9-2008 Positive
7 of 7 cores positive, ranging from 40 - 90%
2 tumours noted, Gleason 4+3 and 3+4
 
Open RP surgery completed on Friday, November 14, 2008 at
St. Francis Hospital, Greenville, SC, Dr. Ronald Smith - Surgeon,
Non-nerve sparing, 4 days in hospital, staples removed 11/24/8,
Catheter out on 12/15/8 on day 32.  Day 33, urine stopped flowing, new catheter put in 12/16/08 - uncertain of what went wrong.
 
Post-surgery Pathlogy Report:
Gleason 3+4=7, pT2c pN0 pMx, Prostate 42 grams, tumor 20% cancer
Contained in capsular, neg. margins apex, bladder neck, right lobe, neg. in seminal vessels and lymph nodes. Left lobe: infiltrating tumor miscroscopically appears to extend to marked left posterior margin
 
First PSA Post Surgery  Scheduled for 1/5/9
 
 


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 12/22/2008 8:05 PM (GMT -6)   
I would be interested in hearing from some of you that also had non-nerve sparing operations, and what kind of ED experiences you had or are having.

Thanks,

David
Age 56, 56 at DX
 
PSA 2007 5.8
PSA 9-2008 14.9
 
3rd Biopsy 9-2008 Positive
7 of 7 cores positive, ranging from 40 - 90%
2 tumours noted, Gleason 4+3 and 3+4
 
Open RP surgery completed on Friday, November 14, 2008 at
St. Francis Hospital, Greenville, SC, Dr. Ronald Smith - Surgeon,
Non-nerve sparing, 4 days in hospital, staples removed 11/24/8,
Catheter out on 12/15/8 on day 32.  Day 33, urine stopped flowing, new catheter put in 12/16/08 - uncertain of what went wrong.
 
Post-surgery Pathlogy Report:
Gleason 3+4=7, pT2c pN0 pMx, Prostate 42 grams, tumor 20% cancer
Contained in capsular, neg. margins apex, bladder neck, right lobe, neg. in seminal vessels and lymph nodes. Left lobe: infiltrating tumor miscroscopically appears to extend to marked left posterior margin
 
First PSA Post Surgery  Scheduled for 1/5/9
 
 


Piano
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 847
   Posted 12/22/2008 8:27 PM (GMT -6)   
Purgatory: I think it is a very good sign -- anything that qualifies as a part-erection or better, with or without the little blue pills, indicates you still have some nerve function there.

Nine months out from non-nerve-sparing surgery, I have a complete flat tire. Musterbation gains a little extra length, and if I really work at it, maybe a little extra thickness, but nothing that qualifies even as a part-erection.

However injections work well for me, and the pump too (if I wanted to use it), so even for the completely non-nerve-spared, it's not all gloom.
Age 63. Other than cancer, in good health; BMI 20
Pre-op: No symptoms; PSA 5.7; Gleason 4+5=9; cancer in 4 of 12 cores
7 March 2008, RRP, non nerve sparing
Two nights in hospital; catheter and staples out after 7 days
Continent, no pads needed from the get-go
Post Op: Stage pT2 M- N-; clear margins and lymph nodes; Gleason 4+4=8; prostate weight: 37gm
6-week and 7-month PSAs: 0
Bimix injections working well 


Rolerbe
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 235
   Posted 12/22/2008 9:10 PM (GMT -6)   
Purg, all I can say is you have some nerve posting that report! Maybe there was a collateral nerve running along somewhere else. Nerve paths are not always 'by the book'. Congrat's and hope they continue!
50 YO
PSA at Dx: 8.2
DaVinci RALP: 10/31/08 -- Great MD in New Haven, CT
Negative margins, no extra-capsular involvement
One nerve spared
6 Wk PSA - 0 
So far, so good.  Next PSA in another 6 Wks
 


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 12/23/2008 8:13 AM (GMT -6)   
Piano, glad the shots are working for you, gives you something to work with and keeps the hope going.
When I finally get this catheter out on December 29th, I am looking forward to "experimenting" in the intimate department, and see if what I experienced was just a fluke, or perhaps the start of something good. I still stand by my original statement, being this is my 4th bout with cancer, my real goal is for 100% removal of the cancer at all costs. Having said that, I assure you I am a normal man with a normal sexual appitite and interest married to a very lovely woman.

Rolerbe, I am slow to humor, were you being funny saying "I had some nerve to post"? If so, that was pretty good.

One day, from one of you more experienced survivors, I want it explained to me how that a man can have an orgasam without an errection. It took me a while to accept the fact that you can have one without an ejaculation, I finally see that as possible.

David in SC
Age 56, 56 at DX
 
PSA 2007 5.8
PSA 9-2008 14.9
 
3rd Biopsy 9-2008 Positive
7 of 7 cores positive, ranging from 40 - 90%
2 tumours noted, Gleason 4+3 and 3+4
 
Open RP surgery completed on Friday, November 14, 2008 at
St. Francis Hospital, Greenville, SC, Dr. Ronald Smith - Surgeon,
Non-nerve sparing, 4 days in hospital, staples removed 11/24/8,
Catheter out on 12/15/8 on day 32.  Day 33, urine stopped flowing, new catheter put in 12/16/08 - uncertain of what went wrong.
 
Post-surgery Pathlogy Report:
Gleason 3+4=7, pT2c pN0 pMx, Prostate 42 grams, tumor 20% cancer
Contained in capsular, neg. margins apex, bladder neck, right lobe, neg. in seminal vessels and lymph nodes. Left lobe: infiltrating tumor miscroscopically appears to extend to marked left posterior margin
 
First PSA Post Surgery  Scheduled for 1/5/9
 
 


James C.
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4462
   Posted 12/23/2008 9:47 AM (GMT -6)   
David, the nerves that create the erection is located along your prostate and descends down using the suspension tissue of the prostate  and is located closely to the prostate itself.  The nerves that allow an orgasm are located elsewhere in the abdomen, farther away from the prostate.  They connect to the brain on one end and the penis head, shaft and some interior locations, including some to the rear of the prostate.  Which explains why anal sexplay using prostate stimulation is enjoyable to most men in by the way.  In any case, the orgasm nerves are still intact and sensative, except for the few that connected to the prostate, so the orgasm mechanism is functioning.  Stimulation to the head or shaft of the penis yields the same sensations and the same result, although it may be less 'explosive' or harder to acheive now.  Erection is not required for orgasm, as the nerves are different, although orgasm with erection is most cases feel better because of the state of the erect penile tissue.  With time and healing, most guys here say their intensity of feeling from orgasms increase both in length and intensity. 

James C.         Age 61
Co-Moderator- Prostate Cancer Forum
4/19/07 PSA 7.6, referred to Urologist, recheck 6.7
7/11/07 Biopsy- 16 core samples, size of gland around 76 cc. Staging pT2c
7/17/07 Path report: 3 of 16 PCa, 5% involved, left lobe , GS 3/3:6.
9/24/07 (open) Retropubic Radical Prostatectomy performed
9/26/07 Post-op Path Report: GS 3+3=6 Staging pT2c, 110gms, margins clear
16 mts: ED- Viagra, pump continues, no response- Trimix ..35ml x 2 weekly continues
Post Surgery PSA's: 3 mts-.04, 6 mts.-.04, 9 mts.-.04, 1 Year-.02.


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 12/23/2008 9:53 AM (GMT -6)   
James. Most interesting post from you.. Didn't know any of that you stated here. I will have to start researching from that perspective. To be honest, until I knew I had PC, didn't really have a clue about most of my own anatomy down there, biology and such was never a good subject with me. I always assumed faslely of course, that it was all connected together. Before 4 months ago, I didn't even know what the prostate did, except for all men had one. Thanks for the info.

David
Age 56, 56 at DX
 
PSA 2007 5.8
PSA 9-2008 14.9
 
3rd Biopsy 9-2008 Positive
7 of 7 cores positive, ranging from 40 - 90%
2 tumours noted, Gleason 4+3 and 3+4
 
Open RP surgery completed on Friday, November 14, 2008 at
St. Francis Hospital, Greenville, SC, Dr. Ronald Smith - Surgeon,
Non-nerve sparing, 4 days in hospital, staples removed 11/24/8,
Catheter out on 12/15/8 on day 32.  Day 33, urine stopped flowing, new catheter put in 12/16/08 - uncertain of what went wrong.
 
Post-surgery Pathlogy Report:
Gleason 3+4=7, pT2c pN0 pMx, Prostate 42 grams, tumor 20% cancer
Contained in capsular, neg. margins apex, bladder neck, right lobe, neg. in seminal vessels and lymph nodes. Left lobe: infiltrating tumor miscroscopically appears to extend to marked left posterior margin
 
First PSA Post Surgery  Scheduled for 1/5/9
 
 


James C.
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4462
   Posted 12/23/2008 10:37 AM (GMT -6)   
Here's one of the better sites with info in layman's terms that I find useful.
 
http://www.caitlainscorner.com/content/view/499/59/1/1/
James C.         Age 61
Co-Moderator- Prostate Cancer Forum
4/19/07 PSA 7.6, referred to Urologist, recheck 6.7
7/11/07 Biopsy- 16 core samples, size of gland around 76 cc. Staging pT2c
7/17/07 Path report: 3 of 16 PCa, 5% involved, left lobe , GS 3/3:6.
9/24/07 (open) Retropubic Radical Prostatectomy performed
9/26/07 Post-op Path Report: GS 3+3=6 Staging pT2c, 110gms, margins clear
16 mts: ED- Viagra, pump continues, no response- Trimix ..35ml x 2 weekly continues
Post Surgery PSA's: 3 mts-.04, 6 mts.-.04, 9 mts.-.04, 1 Year-.02.


hb2006
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 299
   Posted 12/23/2008 10:41 AM (GMT -6)   
I think that most guys would agree that post-surgery, the orgasms are actually more intense. I know that mine are. I had my first as soon as the catheter was out, at 14 days. And I would agree with everything that James has stated.

Surgery was May 21, 2008.
Catheter out two weeks later
Incontinence ended at 8 weeks after surgery
Nerves spared on the right side
Age 59
Using Caverject or Edex injections now

James C.
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4462
   Posted 12/23/2008 10:53 AM (GMT -6)   
hb, it took about 6 months for me to reach the full effect of intensity.  Now they are actually more intense than just before my surgery.  I had already begun to slow down (dampen) in that department by then, anyway.. tongue
James C.         Age 61
Co-Moderator- Prostate Cancer Forum
4/19/07 PSA 7.6, referred to Urologist, recheck 6.7
7/11/07 Biopsy- 16 core samples, size of gland around 76 cc. Staging pT2c
7/17/07 Path report: 3 of 16 PCa, 5% involved, left lobe , GS 3/3:6.
9/24/07 (open) Retropubic Radical Prostatectomy performed
9/26/07 Post-op Path Report: GS 3+3=6 Staging pT2c, 110gms, margins clear
16 mts: ED- Viagra, pump continues, no response- Trimix ..35ml x 2 weekly continues
Post Surgery PSA's: 3 mts-.04, 6 mts.-.04, 9 mts.-.04, 1 Year-.02.


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 12/23/2008 4:57 PM (GMT -6)   
James,

Thanks for the links, I read them all, and learned a lot at age 56! Like I said before, biology and anatomy were never good subjects for me, I am amazed what I still don't know about the human body.

Thanks again.

David

When I ever get this blasted plastic/vinyl tube out of my penis, I am looking forward to getting into the ED part of my recovery
Age 56, 56 at DX
 
PSA 2007 5.8
PSA 9-2008 14.9
 
3rd Biopsy 9-2008 Positive
7 of 7 cores positive, ranging from 40 - 90%
2 tumours noted, Gleason 4+3 and 3+4
 
Open RP surgery completed on Friday, November 14, 2008 at
St. Francis Hospital, Greenville, SC, Dr. Ronald Smith - Surgeon,
Non-nerve sparing, 4 days in hospital, staples removed 11/24/8,
Catheter out on 12/15/8 on day 32.  Day 33, urine stopped flowing, new catheter put in 12/16/08 - uncertain of what went wrong.
 
Post-surgery Pathlogy Report:
Gleason 3+4=7, pT2c pN0 pMx, Prostate 42 grams, tumor 20% cancer
Contained in capsular, neg. margins apex, bladder neck, right lobe, neg. in seminal vessels and lymph nodes. Left lobe: infiltrating tumor miscroscopically appears to extend to marked left posterior margin
 
First PSA Post Surgery  Scheduled for 1/5/9
 
 

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