Posted 1/14/2009 7:00 PM (GMT -6)
The strangest of things produce the most unlikely results. Even though I am not a proponent of cures suggestions such as pepper I am glad at the least that they are being explored. Did I make any sense?

peace to you
Dale
My PSA at diagnosis was 16.3
age 46 (current)
My gleason score from prostate was 4+5=9 and from the lymph nodes was 4+4=8
I had 44 IMRT's
Casodex
Currently on Lupron
I go to The Cancer Treatment Center of America
Married with two kids
latest PSA 5-27-08 0.11
PSA July 24th, 2008 is 0.04
PSA Dec 16th, 2008 is .06
Testosterone keeps rising, the current number is 156, up from 57 in May
cancer in 4 of 6 cores
92%
80%
37%
28%
 

Posted 1/14/2009 7:19 PM (GMT -6)
If anyone's interested, here where you can download the actual research article: http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/cgi/reprint/66/6/3222
Age: 59, 59 at DX
PSA: 1/20/00 7.9, 7/22/00 3.3, 10/25/01 4.9, 10/19/04 5.1, 9/26/07 5.98, 8/28/08 7.68, 9/23/08 7.36, 10/23/08 8.64, 12/18/08 6.39
Prostate size: 96cc
Biopsy: 11/7/08 Positive 2 of 15 cores, both in rt apex, composite tumor quantity 5% prostate involved, Gleason 7 (3+4), Gleason pattern 4 accounts for 15% of tumor
Stage: T1c

Posted 1/14/2009 7:34 PM (GMT -6)
Hey Michigan guy where are you from, zufus-Bob is also a Michiganian...."If you seek a pleasant penninsula look about you" (I did not say Pin-nin-chula). Send me an email mine is available off the board thing herein.
 

Posted 1/14/2009 7:39 PM (GMT -6)

Hi MichGuy,

I read an article similar to this one but not as scientific. I also read the abstract of a more scientific article published in a medical journal. This article appears to be a bit better than either of my previous references. I take two pepper capsules a day as a result. Figured I would try it. So far no gastrointestinal issues from the pepper. The only thing that gives me pause is that it has only been tested in mice. There seems to be a lot of things like this that work in mice. Sometimes I wish I was a mouse too. tongue Until I got this PCa I had no idea how interested humans are in the health of mice.

Anyway, thanks for the post and the link.

Take care,

Don


Diagnosed 04/10/08
Age 58
PSA 21.5 (first and only test resulted from follow up visit to emergency room for kidney stone. first time for kidney stone too)
Gleason 4 + 3
DRE palpable tumor on left side
100% of 12 cores positive for PCa range 35% to 85%
Bone scan clear
Chest x ray clear
CT scan shows potential lymph node involvement in pelvic region
Started Casodex on May 2 and stopped on June 1, 2008
Lupron injection on May 15 and every four months for next two years
PSA test on July 14, 08 after 8 weeks hormone .82
Started IMRT/IGRT on July 10, 2008. 45 treatments scheduled
First 25 to be full pelvic for a total dose of 45 Gray to lymph nodes.
Last 20 to prostate only. Total dose to prostate 81 Gray.
Completed IMRT/IGRT 09/11/08.
Second Lupron shot 09/11/08
Next PSA test by oncologist 03/09
 
 

Posted 1/14/2009 8:08 PM (GMT -6)
There you go. Capcaicin inhibits the growth of androgen independent prostate cancer cells but it does not cure it, there were no cured mice. Under Materials and Methods you can see how the capsaicin was prepared for application by in vitro and in vivo methods. It was processed and injected. Just like Dr. Keoffler said in his response. This report is three years old and the research has failed to produce an investigative drug at this point. But I hope it does. Unfortunately the report does indicate that PSA is lowered in existing tumors, thus PSA can be deceptively lowered. Today PSA is a surrigate for disease progression that making it's effectiveness less can be a real issue. If someone were to take this report, start popping capcaicin capsules, they could just be hindering conventional monitoring.

There are many reports that created through investigations. But when someone out of this lab takes a report like this one and creates a treatment plan and advertises it as a cure ~ they are one card short of a deck. No one in this study intended for prostate cancer patients to use this very early result and start slamming capsaicin capsules. You would figure in three years after this investiation that you would see more material ~ positive or negative abut it...

I don't have the report handy, but if you like I will find it and link it. Capcaicin has been shown to also hinder performance of Taxotere which is a very important treatment option for androgen independant prostate cancer. Capsaicin in large quantity ingested can damage digestive tracks.

In my opinion Capsaicin tastes great. I love stuffed peppers. I can get it at the grocery store. I have hugely been into spicy pepper food for most of my life. And I have advanced prostate cancer. It didn't help me through conventionl ingestion. If you want to say that I needed to take more of it, I would say prove I won't hurt myself doing that in ten or twenty years first. And if you say you are cured because of this suppliment ~ how could one guy prove that? Back to that incomplete deck of cards I say.

Tony
Age 46 (44 when Dx)
Pre-op PSA was 19.8
Surgery on Feb 16, 2007 @ The City of Hope
Post-Op Pathology: Gleason 4+3=7, positive margins, Extra Prostatic Extension (EPE)
Bilateral seminal vesicle invasion (SVI); Stage pT3b, N0, Mx
HT began in May, '07 with Lupron and Casodex 50mg (2 Year ADT)
IMRT radiation for 38 Treatments ending August 3, '07
Current PSA (January 13, 2009): <0.1
 
You can visit my Journey at:
 
STAY POSITIVE!
 
 

Posted 1/14/2009 8:43 PM (GMT -6)
Yeah Tony I have always loved spicy foods. I grew up in an Italian neighborhood in Ohio and spiced up all my pastas and pizzas. Then I moved out here and can eat hotter mexican foods than near all mexicans I know. Back to lycopene and all that early Italian sauces I've taken multivitamins with lycopene since it first was added. Thus so much for magic food and supplements. But I still take Omega 3 fish capsules and multivitamins (neither are exorbitantly priced) insisting they have folic acid in them over folate. But maybe those too will be discredited in time like selinium, mangosteen etc.. I think many people have needlessly spent dollars on expensive urine and gas. Green tea is an excellent antioxidant but you need to drink more than most people do. Personally I drink more black than green tea, but I never drank coffee. Will that make any difference? I doubt it. But still people will spend hopeful dollars on maybe just maybe a magic bullet. Just don't count on them... skeptical Ziggy
Diagnosed 11/08/07
Age: 58
3 of 12 @5%
Psa: 2.3
3+3=6
Size: 34g
T-2-A
 
2/22/08
3D Mapping Saturation Biopsy
1 of 45 @2%
Psa:2.1
3+3=6
28g after taking Avodart
Catheter for 1 day
Good Candidate for TFT
(Targeted Focal Therapy)
Cryosurgery(Ice Balls)
Clinical Research Study
 
4/22/08
TFT performed at University of Colorado
Medical Center at Denver Fitzsimons Campus
Catheter for 4 days
Slight soreness for 2 weeks but afterward
life returns as normal
 
7/30/08
Psa: .32
 
11/10/08
Psa.62
Not unexpected bounce after
the 80% drop the quarter earlier.
Along with urine flow readings, and
acceptable amount left in bladder measured
by sonic. Results  warrant skipping third
quarter tests, and to return 
April, 2009 for
final biopsy scheduled to
complete clinical research study 
 
 
 

Post Edited (realziggy) : 1/14/2009 6:46:21 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 1/15/2009 10:57 PM (GMT -6)
Ziggy, thank you for coming back and you are a very good poster. Peace will reign. Now I only ask...That you do not post anything negative about Lycopene. I have my Ruthie convinced that I have to have my Italian food to stay well. We will be celebrating our 15th year as a couple in a few days, and the last thing I want to hear is "let's do something different"....lolol

Tony
Age 46 (44 when Dx)
Pre-op PSA was 19.8
Surgery on Feb 16, 2007 @ The City of Hope
Post-Op Pathology: Gleason 4+3=7, positive margins, Extra Prostatic Extension (EPE)
Bilateral seminal vesicle invasion (SVI); Stage pT3b, N0, Mx
HT began in May, '07 with Lupron and Casodex 50mg (2 Year ADT)
IMRT radiation for 38 Treatments ending August 3, '07
Current PSA (January 13, 2009): <0.1
 
You can visit my Journey at:
 
STAY POSITIVE!
 
 

Posted 1/16/2009 8:28 AM (GMT -6)
I will just be blunt for one, lol, I think the entire pepper theory is just snake oil in another form. People are always looking for some obvious miracle cure that it right under their nose all that time, and someone just happens to get turned on to it. While hardly perfect, we live in an age of great medical treatments and improvements, a lot of good medications out there, I am more inclined to stick to the tried and proven. Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with a healthy diet and lifestyle, the amount of needed health care in this country would drop drastically if everyone ate less, ate better, and exercised, and didn't smoke. Wouldn't stop eveyrthing bad from happening, but it would sure help. Excuse my rant.

David in SC
Age 56, 56 at DX
PSA 7/7 5.8, 7/8 12.3, 9/8 14.9, 10/8 16.4
3rd Biopsy 9-2008 Positive 7 of 7 cores positive, ranging from 40 - 90%, G 4+3 & 3+4
Open RP surgery  November 14, 2008 at St. Francis Hospital, Greenville, SC, Dr. Ronald Smith - Surgeon, Non-nerve sparing, 4 days in hospital, staples removed 11/24/8, Catheter out on 12/15/8 on day 32.  Day 33, urine stopped flowing, new catheter put in 12/16/08, Catheter out 12/29/08.  After 7 hours, complete stoppage again, emergency room put in Catheter #3 early evening of day 45, still 12/29/08. 1/5/9 - Cath #3 out, dr. did cycloscope, saw potential blockage, put in Catheter #4, 1/13/9 - Had operation St. Francis - removed blockage, put in Cath #5, suppose to be removed 1/19/9
Post-surgery Pathlogy Report:
Gleason 3+4=7, pT2c pN0 pMx, Prostate 42 grams, tumor 20% cancer
Contained in capsular, neg. margins apex, bladder neck, right lobe, neg. in seminal vessels and lymph nodes.
First PSA Post Surgery  Scheduled now for 2/9/9
 
 

Posted 1/16/2009 11:24 AM (GMT -6)
TC-LasVegas said...
Ziggy, thank you for coming back and you are a very good poster. Peace will reign. Now I only ask...That you do not post anything negative about Lycopene. I have my Ruthie convinced that I have to have my Italian food to stay well. We will be celebrating our 15th year as a couple in a few days, and the last thing I want to hear is "let's do something different"....lolol

Tony


Contrary to popular belief I never said I was leaving. I'll layoff the lycopene criticizing.

Purgatory we seem to agree on the pepper/snake oil. That said I still believe jalapenos are a gift from god.. Oops sorry about that ... a gift from the gods... is that better? ok a gift from the hot and spicy side of the universe. Now it sounds like a chinese menu... all you green chile lovers know what I mean.

Talking about great medical treatments and improvements. My treatment alone is a great testament to that... and it didn't include any miracle supplements.
Diagnosed 11/08/07
Age: 58
3 of 12 @5%
Psa: 2.3
3+3=6
Size: 34g
T-2-A
 
2/22/08
3D Mapping Saturation Biopsy
1 of 45 @2%
Psa:2.1
3+3=6
28g after taking Avodart
Catheter for 1 day
Good Candidate for TFT
(Targeted Focal Therapy)
Cryosurgery(Ice Balls)
Clinical Research Study
 
4/22/08
TFT performed at University of Colorado
Medical Center at Denver Fitzsimons Campus
Catheter for 4 days
Slight soreness for 2 weeks but afterward
life returns as normal
 
7/30/08
Psa: .32
 
11/10/08
Psa.62
Not unexpected bounce after
the 80% drop the quarter earlier.
Along with urine flow readings, and
acceptable amount left in bladder measured
by sonic. Results  warrant skipping third
quarter tests, and to return 
April, 2009 for
final biopsy scheduled to
complete clinical research study 
 
 
 

Post Edited (realziggy) : 1/16/2009 9:29:54 AM (GMT-7)

Posted 1/16/2009 12:24 PM (GMT -6)
realziggy, i have nothing against peppers or spicy food, due to the radiation i had back in 2000, it left my mouth and throat incapable of eating anything remotely spicy. I eat all my salads dry without dressing, never use ketcup, mustard, most other condiments. I never add salt to anything. I miss being able to eat a big hot plate of nachos and cheese.

David in SC
Age 56, 56 at DX
PSA 7/7 5.8, 7/8 12.3, 9/8 14.9, 10/8 16.4
3rd Biopsy 9-2008 Positive 7 of 7 cores positive, ranging from 40 - 90%, G 4+3 & 3+4
Open RP surgery  November 14, 2008 at St. Francis Hospital, Greenville, SC, Dr. Ronald Smith - Surgeon, Non-nerve sparing, 4 days in hospital, staples removed 11/24/8, Catheter out on 12/15/8 on day 32.  Day 33, urine stopped flowing, new catheter put in 12/16/08, Catheter out 12/29/08.  After 7 hours, complete stoppage again, emergency room put in Catheter #3 early evening of day 45, still 12/29/08. 1/5/9 - Cath #3 out, dr. did cycloscope, saw potential blockage, put in Catheter #4, 1/13/9 - Had operation St. Francis - removed blockage, put in Cath #5, suppose to be removed 1/19/9
Post-surgery Pathlogy Report:
Gleason 3+4=7, pT2c pN0 pMx, Prostate 42 grams, tumor 20% cancer
Contained in capsular, neg. margins apex, bladder neck, right lobe, neg. in seminal vessels and lymph nodes.
First PSA Post Surgery  Scheduled now for 2/9/9
 
 

Posted 1/17/2009 7:27 PM (GMT -6)
Interesting to reflect upon where did all these drugs, herbs, spices, plants, minerals originally come from (originally now): yeah mother nature, maybe via a plan , we have only unlocked some of the potentials of what stuff is in them and what they might be able to do. These natives, Indians, Azteks, Monguls and whatever had to find remedies in their time frame and no Pharmacies to go to. They aren't as primitive as we may have thought, they figured out how to deal with some ailments and fix them up. Maybe their snake oil is repackage today with a nice sounding name and/or FDA approval, as patients we don't care....we look for results and less side effect issues. We buy more drugs, supplements, herbs, teas, etc. today in history than ever.

Later in history our scientific types took these compounds and modified or refined or add stuff to the mix and even created synthetic or mimic compounds. Thus we have today stuff made with original mother natures (organic if you will) and modified (synthetic) things to choose from. How did our grandparents possibly cope with only: aspirin, cod-liver oil, and alka-seltzer (LOL)?
 

Posted 1/17/2009 9:07 PM (GMT -6)
Good post, bob,
There are things that can and do work well. Peppers and such maybe on the horizon of a successful drug. I have no doubt that there are hidden secrets in nature that can cure cancers. Like you say, we are supplimenting way more than ever before. Unfortunately there is way more cancer found than ever before as well. Relation? Probably not. But it could be just as easily. I asked my oncologist why Pacific Rim Asians had less prostate cancer percentages and if he thought diet was the primary reason. He wasn't buying it much. He told me to remember that PCa is largely heredity. But that it could also easily be other things in our environments ~ pesitcides, hair gel, deoderant, even the plastic in a toothbrush or water bottle that trigger prostate cancer. You have to look at everything different in the socialeconomics of the Pacific Rim, not just diet, in order to prove that anything is a cause.

On topic to MichGuys post ~ We still lack a scientific study on capsaicin of its effectiveness in humans, propper introduction to our systems, drug interactions, and what it's side effects are when delivered in high doses. We have seen hundreds of lawsuits against drug companies for releasing drugs that killed people, but at least they were held to some standard before releasing a treatment protocol. Taking a study like this and slamming the suppliment, then a couple months later declaring to the world you have been cured? For me, the bells and whistles went off when he declared he had another biopsy to prove it. Doctors will tell you that needle biopsies of the prostate are less than 65% effective at finding cancer in the first place. So no doctor would do another prostate biopsy after they already found it once. What good would it do to even get a negative second biopsy? I know the doctor wouldn't say, "well how about that, your cured" or even "Whatever it is you're doing, keep doing it, that's enough for me". They might say "It's ok if you don't want to do anything right now. But we should monitor this like a hawk searching for a mouse". I think Ziggy is the only member at this site that has a legitimate reason for additional prostate biopsies after the finding of a positive result. Any other TFT Cryo guys will too. Sounds like HIFU guys might as well be getting multiple biopsies in the future. When you understand these modalities, you can understand why.

Tony
Age 46 (44 when Dx)
Pre-op PSA was 19.8
Surgery on Feb 16, 2007 @ The City of Hope
Post-Op Pathology: Gleason 4+3=7, positive margins, Extra Prostatic Extension (EPE)
Bilateral seminal vesicle invasion (SVI); Stage pT3b, N0, Mx
HT began in May, '07 with Lupron and Casodex 50mg (2 Year ADT)
IMRT radiation for 38 Treatments ending August 3, '07
Current PSA (January 13, 2009): <0.1
 
You can visit my Journey at:
 
STAY POSITIVE!
 
 

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