Can pepper capsules cure prostate cancer?

Hi Everyone,

I saw this on another forum and I thought perhaps the topic might be worthy of investigation here. I hope I'm not starting a thread that has already been thoroughly discussed previously. The claim was that published research determined that human prostate cancer cells planted in mice "commit suicide" when exposed in the lab to cayenne pepper (active ingredient - capsaicin). The forum poster decided to take large amounts of cayenne pepper capsules and claimed that it cured his prostate cancer. His post is here: http://www.cancerforums.net/about8898.html .

Has anyone heard about this or tried it?

MichGuy

______________________
Age: 59, 59 at DX
PSA: 1/20/00 7.9, 7/22/00 3.3, 10/25/01 4.9, 10/19/04 5.1, 9/26/07 5.98, 8/28/08 7.68, 9/23/08 7.36, 10/23/08 8.64, 12/18/08 6.39
Prostate size: 96cc
Biopsy: 11/7/08 Positive 2 of 15 cores, both in rt apex, composite tumor quantity 5% prostate involved, Gleason 3+4, Gleason pattern 4 accounts for 15% of tumor
Stage: T1c

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Age: 59, 59 at DX
PSA: 1/20/00 7.9, 7/22/00 3.3, 10/25/01 4.9, 10/19/04 5.1, 9/26/07 5.98, 8/28/08 7.68, 9/23/08 7.36, 10/23/08 8.64, 12/18/08 6.39
Prostate size: 96cc
Biopsy: 11/7/08 Positive 2 of 15 cores, both in rt apex, composite tumor quantity 5% prostate involved, Gleason 3+4, Gleason pattern 4 accounts for 15% of tumor
Stage: T1c

It's been discussed before here- several times. I'm sure the proponents and doubters will weigh in shortly. I personally have no opinion of the subject, in case you're wondering...

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James C. Age 61
Co-Moderator- Prostate Cancer Forum
4/07 PSA 7.6, referred to Urologist, recheck 6.7
7/07 Biopsy- 16 core samples, size of gland around 76 cc. Staging pT2c
7/07 Path report: 3 of 16 PCa, 5% involved, left lobe , GS 3/3:6.
9/07 Nerve sparing open Retropubic Radical Prostatectomy
9/07 Post-op Path Report: GS 3+3=6 Staging pT2c, 110gms, margins clear
16 mts: ED- 50 mg Viagra 3X week, pump daily,Trimix .35ml 2X week continues
Post Surgery PSA's: 3 mts-.04, 6 mts.-.04, 9 mts.-.04, 1 Year-.02.

My apologies for resurrecting an old topic. I'm a newbie here.

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Age: 59, 59 at DX
PSA: 1/20/00 7.9, 7/22/00 3.3, 10/25/01 4.9, 10/19/04 5.1, 9/26/07 5.98, 8/28/08 7.68, 9/23/08 7.36, 10/23/08 8.64, 12/18/08 6.39
Prostate size: 96cc
Biopsy: 11/7/08 Positive 2 of 15 cores, both in rt apex, composite tumor quantity 5% prostate involved, Gleason 3+4, Gleason pattern 4 accounts for 15% of tumor
Stage: T1c

Hey, don't apologize. How else are the newer folks gonna get caught up. Don't feel like you shouldn't reopen old stuff. Someone may just be looking for that, or someone may have some new info to add since it last was seen.

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James C. Age 61
Co-Moderator- Prostate Cancer Forum
4/07 PSA 7.6, referred to Urologist, recheck 6.7
7/07 Biopsy- 16 core samples, size of gland around 76 cc. Staging pT2c
7/07 Path report: 3 of 16 PCa, 5% involved, left lobe , GS 3/3:6.
9/07 Nerve sparing open Retropubic Radical Prostatectomy
9/07 Post-op Path Report: GS 3+3=6 Staging pT2c, 110gms, margins clear
16 mts: ED- 50 mg Viagra 3X week, pump daily,Trimix .35ml 2X week continues
Post Surgery PSA's: 3 mts-.04, 6 mts.-.04, 9 mts.-.04, 1 Year-.02.

I contacted Cedars Sanai/UCLA when this posting hit our site. All in the same time frame, about 8 sites were hit with a claim of a cure ~ which of course is impossibe to prove, all from the same guy.

First the study:
Cedars Sinai found that capsiacin did promote apoptosis in lab rats. The lab rats were treated with "processed doses intraveniously". They did not injest in food form because high doses of capsiacin can damage digestive tracks. That stated, no rats were cured. Some did show smaller tumor volume. Cedars Sinai has not released more than that pertaining to the study in 2006. There have been no studies in humans.

From The National Cancer Institute and the American Society of Clinical Oncology:
High doses of capsiacin have been shown to inhibit the performance of prostate cancer medications including Taxotere. There is also evidence that capsiacin masked PSA Assay tests. Both groups recommend against any extreme high doses in supplimentation because of the lack of documentation about side effects on humans or the performance of their medications.

Because of the poster here claiming he had a cure, and a friend who was a doctor also posting at these sites and blogging that he was opening a suppliments website, we treated it as spam. Since I don't know if it was spam or just overzelous behavior. The doctor and the poster were deleted.

In my opinion, it is absurd to be diagnosed with prostate cancer through biopsy, read a study like this one, start hammering the pills, and a couple months later say "I'm cured here's how". Even if the poster is legit, he has no evidence to suggest a cure ~ another biopsy would not be enough to do so, a lower PSA would not be enough, and we all know this cancer to be deceptive enough to use longer time intervals to see how our treatment is progressing. The moderator at that forum you show let the post stand, other moderators remove the poster. There has been little posting since that one month period from the doctor or the "pepper poster". And there have been no other claims of a cure.

Thanks Tony...most informative.

MichGuy

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Age: 59, 59 at DX
PSA: 1/20/00 7.9, 7/22/00 3.3, 10/25/01 4.9, 10/19/04 5.1, 9/26/07 5.98, 8/28/08 7.68, 9/23/08 7.36, 10/23/08 8.64, 12/18/08 6.39
Prostate size: 96cc
Biopsy: 11/7/08 Positive 2 of 15 cores, both in rt apex, composite tumor quantity 5% prostate involved, Gleason 3+4, Gleason pattern 4 accounts for 15% of tumor
Stage: T1c

Oh no not the peppers again. LOL I remember this from the first time. I guess it's just human nature to hope for some magic supplement or food to save the day. Meanwhile they still advertise lycopene or state it on bottles of ketchup.

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Diagnosed 11/08/07

Lycopene has actually some benefit...My doctor charatarized it as about a 3% improvement in slowing disease progression... I take needed about through cooking...LOL I'm Italian...

Tony

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Age 46 (44 when Dx)

Some foods that may be useful in antioxidant for cells and have usefulness towards cancers are:

broccoli (amongest the best), cauliflower, tomatoes, red/bright colored vegetables/fruits, and especially watermelon, soy products, turmeric, modified fruit pectin (can buy in capsules) and there are more.

Key is may be useful and may have results even, may be good at prevention of some cancers. It would be wise to eat such in your diets. Cut out red meats, hi fats, hi sugars, bad oils if possilbe.

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Bob, you forgot about my favorites: green tea and pomegranite juice, and blueberries..! Di

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Husband Pete
dx Jan 2001 gleason 4 + 3 PSA 16.5
Seed implant and conformal radiation and Lupron from Jan 2001 to Jan2002
2005 Dec PSA began to rise from .5 to 8 within 6 months
Salvage surgery at MSK 9/06 Dr. Eastham
Fistula operation 2/07 MSK Dr. Wong
Many cystoscopies and ER visits with strictures
Catheter for one year....Catheter taken out Sept 07..
Total Incontinence since then....
PSA .52 3/08
AUS Operation at MSK Sept 8 2008 Dr. Sandhu
Activated Oct 28th Dr. Sandhu..MSK
Some difficulty with AUS arising Nov 10 2008
Meeting with Dr. Sandhu to discuss AUS problems and new PSA test Dec 11, 2008
PSA .6 12/08
AUS improving..only 2 pads a day and one at night
Complete hip replacement surgery Dr. Waters Gainesville, FL 1/9/09
Forging ahead to health!

Green tea, pepper . . . whatever, there will always be someone pitching one "cure" or another. If it sounds too silly to be true, that's probably because it is (too silly to be taken seriously).

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Age:  59 (58 at diagnosis - June, 2008)

April '08 PSA 4.8 ("free PSA" 7.9), up from 3.5 year prior

June '08 had biopsy, 2 days later told results positive but in less than 1% of sample

Gleason's 3+3=6

Developed sepsis 2 days post-biopsy, seriously ill in hospital for 3 days

Dr. recommended robotic removal using da Vinci

Surgery 9/10/08

Northwestern Memorial Hospital, Chicago, IL

Dr. Robert Nadler, Urologist/Surgeon

Post-op Gleason's:  3+3, Tertiary 4

Margins:  Free

Bladder & Urethral:  Free

Seminal vesicles:  Not involved

Lymphatic/Vascular Invasion:  Not involved

Tumor:  T2c; Location:  Bilateral; Volume:  20%

Catheter:  Removed 12-days after surgery

Incontinent:  Yes (getting better, though)

Combination of Cialis and MUSE (alprostadil) three times weekly started 9-27-08

Returned to work 9-29-08 (18-19 days post-op)

PSA test result, post-op, 10/08: 0.0; 12/08: 0.0

 

Some things sounding too silly to be true often turn out to be not quite so silly. Take for instance, the Quechua indians of Peru who had this very silly notion of chewing on the bark of the cinchona tree as a cure for malaria. The active ingredient in the bark they were ingesting turned out to be quinine (an anti-malarial, fever reducing anti inflammatory analgesic) which became the mainstay anti-malarial drug for hundreds of years(it is still used today). Who knew that people in earlier times while chewing on willow bark for pain relief were injesting a drug now widely used as an anti inflammatory anti blood clotting agent (aspirin) as a protection against stroke and heart attack. Although I regard the pepper poster mentioned by Tony as a charlatan and a rogue we have to be careful about what we dismiss out of hand. You just never know.
Bill

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1/05 PSA----2.9 3/06-----3.2 3/07-------4.1 5/07------3.9 All negative DREs
Aged 59 when diagnosed
Biopsy 6/07
4 of 10 cores positive for Adenocarcinoma-------bummer!
Core 1 <5%, core 2----50%, core 3----60%, core 4----50%
Biopsy Pathologist's comment:
Gleason 4+3=7 (80% grade 4) Stage T2c
Neither extracapsular nor perineural invasion is identified
CT scan and Bone scan show no evidence of metastases
Da Vinci RP Aug 10th 2007
Post-op pathology:
Positive for perineural invasion and 1 small focal extension
Negative at surgical margins, negative node and negative vesicle involvement
Some 4+4=8 identified ........upgraded to Gleason 8
PSA Oct 07 <0.1 undetectable
PSA Jan 08 <0.1 undetectable
PSA April 08 <0.001 undetectable (disregarded due to lab "misreporting")
PSA August 08 <0.001 undetectable (disregarded due to lab "misreporting")
Post-op pathology rechecked by new lab:
Gleason downgraded to 4+3=7
Focal extension comprised of grade 3 cells
PSA September 08 <0.01 (new lab)

Post Edited (BillyMac) : 1/14/2009 2:52:45 PM (GMT-7)

My 2 cents.

I am very skeptical about any claims of dietary or other supplements claims cure out there. If they really are cures, somebody should be getting be very rich.

However..

I do think there is much unknown about links to diet and slowing the rate of progression of the disease.

I have read something about this with pomegranate juice.

So since pomegranate juice is not as obtrusive than hormone therapy, cheaper than hormone therapy, and less side effects than hormone therapy, sign me up for taking my daily pomegranate juice even though the effects of this are not yet proven. If it can buy me 8 years of remission as opposed to 5, then great. If not, there is not that much of a downside.

In that same vein, I wonder if there are other foods or supplements that I could take similar to pomegranate juice.  Hmm..like pepper.  I just put into google "pepper prostate cancer" and it does seem that is a link they are looking into.

The strangest of things produce the most unlikely results. Even though I am not a proponent of cures suggestions such as pepper I am glad at the least that they are being explored. Did I make any sense?

peace to you
Dale

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My PSA at diagnosis was 16.3

If anyone's interested, here where you can download the actual research article: http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/cgi/reprint/66/6/3222

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Age: 59, 59 at DX
PSA: 1/20/00 7.9, 7/22/00 3.3, 10/25/01 4.9, 10/19/04 5.1, 9/26/07 5.98, 8/28/08 7.68, 9/23/08 7.36, 10/23/08 8.64, 12/18/08 6.39
Prostate size: 96cc
Biopsy: 11/7/08 Positive 2 of 15 cores, both in rt apex, composite tumor quantity 5% prostate involved, Gleason 7 (3+4), Gleason pattern 4 accounts for 15% of tumor
Stage: T1c

Hey Michigan guy where are you from, zufus-Bob is also a Michiganian...."If you seek a pleasant penninsula look about you" (I did not say Pin-nin-chula). Send me an email mine is available off the board thing herein.

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Hi MichGuy,

I read an article similar to this one but not as scientific. I also read the abstract of a more scientific article published in a medical journal. This article appears to be a bit better than either of my previous references. I take two pepper capsules a day as a result. Figured I would try it. So far no gastrointestinal issues from the pepper. The only thing that gives me pause is that it has only been tested in mice. There seems to be a lot of things like this that work in mice. Sometimes I wish I was a mouse too. Until I got this PCa I had no idea how interested humans are in the health of mice.

Anyway, thanks for the post and the link.

Take care,

Don

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Diagnosed 04/10/08

There you go. Capcaicin inhibits the growth of androgen independent prostate cancer cells but it does not cure it, there were no cured mice. Under Materials and Methods you can see how the capsaicin was prepared for application by in vitro and in vivo methods. It was processed and injected. Just like Dr. Keoffler said in his response. This report is three years old and the research has failed to produce an investigative drug at this point. But I hope it does. Unfortunately the report does indicate that PSA is lowered in existing tumors, thus PSA can be deceptively lowered. Today PSA is a surrigate for disease progression that making it's effectiveness less can be a real issue. If someone were to take this report, start popping capcaicin capsules, they could just be hindering conventional monitoring.

There are many reports that created through investigations. But when someone out of this lab takes a report like this one and creates a treatment plan and advertises it as a cure ~ they are one card short of a deck. No one in this study intended for prostate cancer patients to use this very early result and start slamming capsaicin capsules. You would figure in three years after this investiation that you would see more material ~ positive or negative abut it...

I don't have the report handy, but if you like I will find it and link it. Capcaicin has been shown to also hinder performance of Taxotere which is a very important treatment option for androgen independant prostate cancer. Capsaicin in large quantity ingested can damage digestive tracks.

In my opinion Capsaicin tastes great. I love stuffed peppers. I can get it at the grocery store. I have hugely been into spicy pepper food for most of my life. And I have advanced prostate cancer. It didn't help me through conventionl ingestion. If you want to say that I needed to take more of it, I would say prove I won't hurt myself doing that in ten or twenty years first. And if you say you are cured because of this suppliment ~ how could one guy prove that? Back to that incomplete deck of cards I say.

Tony

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Age 46 (44 when Dx)

Yeah Tony I have always loved spicy foods. I grew up in an Italian neighborhood in Ohio and spiced up all my pastas and pizzas. Then I moved out here and can eat hotter mexican foods than near all mexicans I know. Back to lycopene and all that early Italian sauces I've taken multivitamins with lycopene since it first was added. Thus so much for magic food and supplements. But I still take Omega 3 fish capsules and multivitamins (neither are exorbitantly priced) insisting they have folic acid in them over folate. But maybe those too will be discredited in time like selinium, mangosteen etc.. I think many people have needlessly spent dollars on expensive urine and gas. Green tea is an excellent antioxidant but you need to drink more than most people do. Personally I drink more black than green tea, but I never drank coffee. Will that make any difference? I doubt it. But still people will spend hopeful dollars on maybe just maybe a magic bullet. Just don't count on them... skeptical Ziggy

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Diagnosed 11/08/07

Ziggy, thank you for coming back and you are a very good poster. Peace will reign. Now I only ask...That you do not post anything negative about Lycopene. I have my Ruthie convinced that I have to have my Italian food to stay well. We will be celebrating our 15th year as a couple in a few days, and the last thing I want to hear is "let's do something different"....lolol

Tony

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Age 46 (44 when Dx)

I will just be blunt for one, lol, I think the entire pepper theory is just snake oil in another form. People are always looking for some obvious miracle cure that it right under their nose all that time, and someone just happens to get turned on to it. While hardly perfect, we live in an age of great medical treatments and improvements, a lot of good medications out there, I am more inclined to stick to the tried and proven. Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with a healthy diet and lifestyle, the amount of needed health care in this country would drop drastically if everyone ate less, ate better, and exercised, and didn't smoke. Wouldn't stop eveyrthing bad from happening, but it would sure help. Excuse my rant.

David in SC

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Age 56, 56 at DX

Contrary to popular belief I never said I was leaving. I'll layoff the lycopene criticizing.

Purgatory we seem to agree on the pepper/snake oil. That said I still believe jalapenos are a gift from god.. Oops sorry about that ... a gift from the gods... is that better? ok a gift from the hot and spicy side of the universe. Now it sounds like a chinese menu... all you green chile lovers know what I mean.

Talking about great medical treatments and improvements. My treatment alone is a great testament to that... and it didn't include any miracle supplements.

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Diagnosed 11/08/07

realziggy, i have nothing against peppers or spicy food, due to the radiation i had back in 2000, it left my mouth and throat incapable of eating anything remotely spicy. I eat all my salads dry without dressing, never use ketcup, mustard, most other condiments. I never add salt to anything. I miss being able to eat a big hot plate of nachos and cheese.

David in SC

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Age 56, 56 at DX

Interesting to reflect upon where did all these drugs, herbs, spices, plants, minerals originally come from (originally now): yeah mother nature, maybe via a plan , we have only unlocked some of the potentials of what stuff is in them and what they might be able to do. These natives, Indians, Azteks, Monguls and whatever had to find remedies in their time frame and no Pharmacies to go to. They aren't as primitive as we may have thought, they figured out how to deal with some ailments and fix them up. Maybe their snake oil is repackage today with a nice sounding name and/or FDA approval, as patients we don't care....we look for results and less side effect issues. We buy more drugs, supplements, herbs, teas, etc. today in history than ever.

Later in history our scientific types took these compounds and modified or refined or add stuff to the mix and even created synthetic or mimic compounds. Thus we have today stuff made with original mother natures (organic if you will) and modified (synthetic) things to choose from. How did our grandparents possibly cope with only: aspirin, cod-liver oil, and alka-seltzer (LOL)?

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Good post, bob,
There are things that can and do work well. Peppers and such maybe on the horizon of a successful drug. I have no doubt that there are hidden secrets in nature that can cure cancers. Like you say, we are supplimenting way more than ever before. Unfortunately there is way more cancer found than ever before as well. Relation? Probably not. But it could be just as easily. I asked my oncologist why Pacific Rim Asians had less prostate cancer percentages and if he thought diet was the primary reason. He wasn't buying it much. He told me to remember that PCa is largely heredity. But that it could also easily be other things in our environments ~ pesitcides, hair gel, deoderant, even the plastic in a toothbrush or water bottle that trigger prostate cancer. You have to look at everything different in the socialeconomics of the Pacific Rim, not just diet, in order to prove that anything is a cause.

On topic to MichGuys post ~ We still lack a scientific study on capsaicin of its effectiveness in humans, propper introduction to our systems, drug interactions, and what it's side effects are when delivered in high doses. We have seen hundreds of lawsuits against drug companies for releasing drugs that killed people, but at least they were held to some standard before releasing a treatment protocol. Taking a study like this and slamming the suppliment, then a couple months later declaring to the world you have been cured? For me, the bells and whistles went off when he declared he had another biopsy to prove it. Doctors will tell you that needle biopsies of the prostate are less than 65% effective at finding cancer in the first place. So no doctor would do another prostate biopsy after they already found it once. What good would it do to even get a negative second biopsy? I know the doctor wouldn't say, "well how about that, your cured" or even "Whatever it is you're doing, keep doing it, that's enough for me". They might say "It's ok if you don't want to do anything right now. But we should monitor this like a hawk searching for a mouse". I think Ziggy is the only member at this site that has a legitimate reason for additional prostate biopsies after the finding of a positive result. Any other TFT Cryo guys will too. Sounds like HIFU guys might as well be getting multiple biopsies in the future. When you understand these modalities, you can understand why.

Tony

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Age 46 (44 when Dx)