I am going to Duke University for a second opinion - I need advice

New Topic Post Reply Printable Version
[ << Previous Thread | Next Thread >> ]

mikee219
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2009
Total Posts : 53
   Posted 1/18/2009 6:45 AM (GMT -6)   
Mike "should be seen quickly in our multidisciplinary clinic. There he will be seen by a team of physicians including a urologist, radiation oncologist, and medical oncologist and presented with all of the options, including several clinical trial options which I would strongly recommend."

Clinical trial. That sounds promising but scary. SHould I be thinking - what do I have to lose? How do I make a decision like this?

I can be optimistic and as "up" as possible once treatment starts but now, I'm just scared.
PSA - 9

A. Prostate, left base: Prostatic Adenocarcinoma, Gleason grade 4+4=8, involving 2 of 2 cores and 80% of tissue

B. Prostate, left mid: Prostatic Adenocarcinoma, Gleason grade 4+5=9, involving 2 of 2 cores and 70% of tissue

C. Prostate, left apex: Prostatic Adenocarcinoma, Gleason grade 5+4=9, involving 2 of 2 cores and 80% of tissue with probable perineural invasion

D. Prostate, right base: Prostatic Adenocarcinoma, Gleason grade 5+4=9, involving 2 of 2 cores and 50% of tissue

E. Prostate, right mid: Prostatic Adenocarcinoma, Gleason grade 5+5=10, involving 2 of 2 cores and 80% of tissue with perineural invasion

F. Prostate, right apex: Prostatic Adenocarcinoma, Gleason grade 5+4=9, involving 2 of 2 cores and 80% of tissue

Bone scan - negative


zufus
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 3149
   Posted 1/18/2009 7:48 AM (GMT -6)   
Hey, Mike I have been trying to tell you I have traveled your road ahead of you, my stats were very comparable and so is the journey. I also got the multiple-protocol-treatment method, save yourself all those extra steps for appointments is the idea. Hey it is an eye opener of course and might be the best for you. Tony posted the yananow questions for doctors list...if you go..ask such questions and take tape recorder and/or wife etc.

Now skeptical Bob's opinion and why it is not as perfect a scenario as they sell and promote it to be. I am not saying don't go by the way, go and listen, verify, hold them accountable to their words of wisdom. Now, hospitals are also a profit center and have boards or special doctors meetings, in other words they can promote their own agendas, maybe they could steer a patient a certain direction...maybe correctly too (plus sign)...maybe incorrectly too or not to the patients best wishes for side effects or his personal choices as their top concern...it is your disease and your future and your choices (even if it sucks). Someone may wish to have quality of life over longevity or looking at considering a compromise of modalities that has both. So what do they preach, do they listen to the patients total choices or their choices????????????????

Anyway after I got my multiple disp. gig analysis, along with mulitple DRE's (some were women), I was going to sign on with them, two of them a radiologist and an oncologist. They were nice looking (if it were about nice looking they were hired for life)and seemed to be 'doctors'(lol) and were from one of the largest Hospitals in Detroit area and suburbs. Well the onco-doc was not up to date on ADT3 combo drugs (I already had some decent knowledge as to what that meant to a patient with rough stats), she would not let me take proscar (period) but would love to dish out the Lupron+casodex, proscar is the least of side effects and already in books and abstracts as having longer survival when added to ADT3, than monotherpy or ADT2 especially when used prior to radiations and after (bolla study I think)( even if it did not make any difference about using this drug why the fuss on not giving it).  I asked her what is the downside or negative on this drug....dead silence I hit her with a question that the 'expert' could not answer (my nose was sniffying this one). I knew after another question or two she was perhaps an onco specialist for breast cancers, but not up on PCa. Her closed mindedness and unexpertise then lead to her being fired soon after. I needed all the pluses I could put into my corner, maybe this was round 7 in the fight.

Now the radiologist onco-doc missed fired about my questions: Does your hospital have IMRT machines? Do you know where I can get (IMRT radations? they were promoting only EBRT methodology which has more side effects and not as precise, not as good) she said no I don't.
Well I call it lying: her hospital does have IMRT machines (they weren't using them yet on PCa-I found out) and secondly she did know where you can get IMRT (locally)-I smelled this one but could not confirmed it at the time and fired her 1-day before radiations were to take place. Did confirm it herein:

Well after some phone calls I was determined to know whom had this technology around here (2002 remember). I found two places that have it (LOL), but she did not know anywhere else that had it????(she probably hob-knobs with these people too)(smell test confirmed again by stupid Bob, never question your docs they are there own demi-Gods).

So I proceeded to interview those two centers(had IMRT) that were well known and had highly skilled radiation onco-docs (that were unknown to me prior). When I met up with the doc I finally chose, I was talking to him about the experience with the lady onco-doc and told him about her by name, he said yeah I know her shes even been here (but she didn't know they had IMRT-remember???). Some docs are full of agenda....you can believe I am full of it(fine-I am not cashin in on you too)....I been there and done that more than once. Do you think I liked getting 8 opinions and mostly on my own without that many referrals, and 8-10 DRE's along the way????? I am a skeptic but after seeing what I have seen, I think I have reasons.

I post this to open some eyes....question everything....and then make a decent decision and go for your gold, not someones agenda gold, they count theirs you live yours. Of course the other choices are: flip a coin, go with the flow, don't get envolved let the expert guide you...hopefully you got a good 'expert' for your particular case of PCa and many do, some have horry stories that make you cringe.

*Straight talk and unsugar coated, sorry, but my agenda is truth, choices, fairness, patients wishes...we pay the billings, the price, and walk the walk.


 

Post Edited (zufus) : 1/18/2009 11:46:57 AM (GMT-7)


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25393
   Posted 1/18/2009 9:16 AM (GMT -6)   
Mikee, I say go, it's still a great opportunity to hear a lot of options and opinions at the same time, in my area, there is nothing available like that. I agree with Bob, no sugar coating, straight talk, no blowing smoke up your a^^. You have nothing to lose, and a lot to gain. Take advantage of this assembled "knowledge" pool. Best to you.

david in sc
Age 56, 56 at DX
PSA 7/7 5.8, 7/8 12.3, 9/8 14.9, 10/8 16.4
3rd Biopsy 9-2008 Positive 7 of 7 cores positive, ranging from 40 - 90%, G 4+3 & 3+4
Open RP surgery  November 14, 2008 at St. Francis Hospital, Greenville, SC, Dr. Ronald Smith - Surgeon, Non-nerve sparing, 4 days in hospital, staples removed 11/24/8, Catheter out on 12/15/8 on day 32.  Day 33, urine stopped flowing, new catheter put in 12/16/08, Catheter out 12/29/08.  After 7 hours, complete stoppage again, emergency room put in Catheter #3 early evening of day 45, still 12/29/08. 1/5/9 - Cath #3 out, dr. did cycloscope, saw potential blockage, put in Catheter #4, 1/13/9 - Had operation St. Francis - removed blockage, put in Cath #5, suppose to be removed 1/19/9
Post-surgery Pathlogy Report:
Gleason 3+4=7, pT2c pN0 pMx, Prostate 42 grams, tumor 20% cancer
Contained in capsular, neg. margins apex, bladder neck, right lobe, neg. in seminal vessels and lymph nodes.
First PSA Post Surgery  Scheduled now for 2/9/9
 
 


dkob131
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 364
   Posted 1/18/2009 10:30 AM (GMT -6)   

Mike:

I think you should take advantage of this opportunity and go.  It sounds like you'll have all of the players at the table.

As far as clinical trials go, I would say listen very carefully and consider them.  Some of them will be the treatments of the future. There are a few people here enrolled in some. Gordy, War Eagle and such.

You'll feel much better when some type of treatment starts,its not much fun sitting around waiting.

Good luck!

David


 54 y.o.
 Diagnosed 4/10/08
 DRE Normal
 PSA-5.5
 Biopsy- 12 cores, 4 positive highest 4+4=8
 Bone scan, CT scan and Chest X-ray clear 4/16/08
 Urologist suggested surgery 4/16/08
 MRI on 4/24/08 clear no suggestion of lymph node   involvement.
 4/24/08 -Started on Lupron and Casodex preparing for HDRT and IMRT in late July.  This treatment will not preclude me from surgery if I change my mind.
Decide to have DaVinci surgery after another consult with surgeon.
6/19/08- DaVinci surgery at University of Washington.
6/25/08- Path report, clear margins, no noted extension
9/12/08- PSA <0.02 
12/05/08-PSA <0.02 Six months after surgery 


DJBearGuy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 818
   Posted 1/18/2009 10:54 AM (GMT -6)   
Mike,

I think I agree with Bob, saying it this way:
-Keep your BS meter turned on
-Watch out for docs who are good-looking wink

The part about the BS meter is, as Bob alludes, fairly serious. A lot of us in this kind of situation feel a bit desperate, and will be so relieved at hearing someone say "I can cure you" that we'll tend not to be as suspicious as we would be otherwise. It might help if, when you talk to the docs, pretend you're thinking about buying a car. Maybe a used car.

None of my docs offered a clinical trial, though one did talk about it, and I did some poking around on the web. Here's a link, but I have to say, it's pretty dense stuff if you're not used to it:

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?term=prostate+cancer&recr=open

Here's a link to clinical trial results that is maybe a little more readable. These are all studies that were completed:

http://www.cancer.gov/clinicaltrials/results/prostate

There was one that sort of caught my eye, that was looking at immunotherapy for metastatic hormone refractory prostate cancer. But I didn't qualify (which I am thankful for), and then the study was terminated anyway.
DJ

Age 53
PSA 2007 about 2
PSA 2008 4.3
Diagnosed September 2008.
Biopsy: 6 of 12 cores positive
Gleason 4+3 = 7
CT and Bone scan negative
Da Vinci surgery at City of Hope December 8, 2008
Radical prostatectomy and lymph node dissection
Catheter removed on 7th day, replaced on 8th day, removed again 14th day following negative cystogram
pT2c
lymph nodes negative
microscopic margins
next PSA 1/22/08


mvesr
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2007
Total Posts : 823
   Posted 1/18/2009 11:04 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi Mikee

I me with several Doctors at Duke and decided on Dr. Judd Moul to do my open surgery late in May of 2007. I could not be more pleased with the progress so far. My PSA's have been less than zero. But as you have found out so far we are all different and there a lot variables in fighting this disease. Go to Duke and get that second opinion and the best to you.

Mika
age at dx 54 now 56
psa at dx 4.3
got the bad news 1/29/07
open surgery Duke Medical Center 5-29-07
never more than 2 pads
Tossed the pads this spring
ED still a problem
Got a shot last week and it was great
A year an a half of zero's
 


Ziggy9
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 981
   Posted 1/18/2009 11:35 AM (GMT -6)   
mikee219 said...
Mike "should be seen quickly in our multidisciplinary clinic. There he will be seen by a team of physicians including a urologist, radiation oncologist, and medical oncologist and presented with all of the options, including several clinical trial options which I would strongly recommend."

Clinical trial. That sounds promising but scary. SHould I be thinking - what do I have to lose? How do I make a decision like this?

I can be optimistic and as "up" as possible once treatment starts but now, I'm just scared.


I'm one of the few here who can speak of going through a clinical trial. That said our Pcas are much different. My cousin who also has Pca lives in SC and also went to Duke for more opinions, he speaks highly of the doctors he met there. He settled on brachytherapy for a number of reasons. His case was closer to mine than yours except he's ten years older than I am

But getting back to clinical trials, for me it was never that big a decision. For one thing I first learned of the trial from a local tv news special where one of the anchorman was diagnosed with PCa. Thus the the head of urologic oncology department's credibility was established by the broadcast enough for me. He's well respected nationally. Then it became a matter of lifestyle over possible more longevity by the common radical treatments. Although as time goes by the latter is no longer a worry. I'm the 57th person to receive TFT and all prior I know of have had no reoccurence since. Other than a little shock to the nerves and the little blue pill to get it kick started ED has become less and less a problem and there never was an incontinence problem. Also I 'm the only one here after treatment to still have wet orgasms. Although my primary concern was always incontinence. All that said there has to be some of us to do the clinical studies to further advance the research and future treatment. I believe what I've done along with others in the trial is to soon make a lumpectomy type treatment for PCa to someday soon become the primary treatment for early detected low risk PCa. There were a few women who had to do this to maybe 15 years ago with breast cancer. I include myself now among the pioneers who took a chance not denying the selfishness of it for my life has truly returned to what it was before diagnosis except for taking a blue pill sometimes. Which I'll guess I'll never reorder after my stash here is gone. So in my case I really didn't risk too much to lose. For unlike radiation I can always go to surgery or radiation if I would ever need to. So what do you have to lose? Depends on the clinical treatment itself and the state of your current health. Good luck in whatever you decide. Just remember the so called "gold standard" IMHO has become more and more tarnished with age, and life style does matter too. That's coming from some one long divorced with grown children which should also be taken into consideration. Enough Sunday morning ramblings
Diagnosed 11/08/07
Age: 58
3 of 12 @5%
Psa: 2.3
3+3=6
Size: 34g
T-2-A
 
2/22/08
3D Mapping Saturation Biopsy
1 of 45 @2%
Psa:2.1
3+3=6
28g after taking Avodart
Catheter for 1 day
Good Candidate for TFT
(Targeted Focal Therapy)
Cryosurgery(Ice Balls)
Clinical Research Study
 
4/22/08
TFT performed at University of Colorado
Medical Center at Denver Fitzsimons Campus
Catheter for 4 days
Slight soreness for 2 weeks but afterward
life returns as normal
 
7/30/08
Psa: .32
 
11/10/08
Psa.62
Not unexpected bounce after
the 80% drop the quarter earlier.
Along with urine flow readings, and
acceptable amount left in bladder measured
by sonic. Results  warrant skipping third
quarter tests, and to return 
April, 2009 for
final biopsy scheduled to
complete clinical research study 
 
 
 


Doting Daughter
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 1064
   Posted 1/18/2009 12:31 PM (GMT -6)   
Mike-
My father had a similar situation with his second opinion at Virginia Mason and we were very pleased with the team approach. We met with everyone under the sun and were given our options. It was wonderful to have all the specialists working as one unit to provide all options available. My father was informed of a clinical trial, but after discussing his case, the trial wasn't a good option for him at his stage in the game. Therefore, I would say, don't be scared, just go in educated and optimistic and if for some reason you are not happy with the facility or any of the doctors, there are no obligations. You are hiring them for a second opinion at this point. You might be surprised at how well the care is. We were extremely pleased. Good luck!
Father's Age 62 (now 63)
Original Gleason 3+4=7, Post-Op Gleason- 4+3=7,
DaVinci Surgery Aug 31, 2007
Focally Positive Right Margin, One positive node. T3a N1 M0.
Bone Scan/CT Negative (Sept. 10, 2007)
Oct. 17 PSA 0.07
Nov. 13 PSA 0.05
Casodex adm. Nov 07, Lupron beg. Dec 03, 2007 2 yrs
Radiation March 03-April 22, 2008- 8 weeks 5x a week
July 2, 08 PSA <.02
Oct. 10, 08 PSA <.02
Praying for a cured dad.

Co-Moderator Prostate Cancer Forum


zufus
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 3149
   Posted 1/18/2009 1:39 PM (GMT -6)   
All great advice herein from travelers who have either been there and done that or witnessed the whole enchiladad. I never said don't go-GO, question it all and don't give them a decision on the spot necessarily(they may push for commitment, starting with tests which you could do), you want to think it over, you could always start on casodex and maybe some other things (if doing LHRH drugs in your case take casodex or its equal for like 14 days prior to LHRH to avoid flare) this would give you (some) time to think about what you are doing. Funny how very few docs mention this nice little option!!! It is for real search out info on Dr. Labrie or talk with Paactusa.org and other sources, maybe UsToo.org also. You would be monitoring your psa often while starting up any drug to see the results, gage what it worth, if it does not work, dump it.

Ask any of them why that is stupid, smell the answer and go seek another opinion from a PCa onco reknown doc(books, internet etc.), and compare why you don't have 'anytime' at all, to look it over. The rush thing I have seen often, I question it, especially when drugs and be most helpful to buy some time. I heard that pitch a couple of times, sorry foul ball, I did start the drugs while I kept searching.

We do want you to get the straight up talk and a fair deal and best results.

You can do this and it is better with supporters and a home team.
 


Tony Crispino
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 8128
   Posted 1/18/2009 2:13 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi Mike,
Duke University is one of the top multifaceted prostate cancer programs in the country.  You know you are in the right place when you can have the Radiation, Surgical, oncological, nuitritional, and pallitive care groups under one roof...LOL actually there are a few roofs involved.  Mike Scott is one of the top advocates and medical consults in the milky way and he has set you up well. 
 
LOL, don't let anyone talk you away from any facility by sorting through medical costs at this time ~ your insurance is good.  But when it comes to oncologists that charge over and above what insurance would pay for, I would personally "snuff" that idea quickly if you catch my drift.  nono   That just ain't right.  I would gladly pay more for the treatment that the man giving it.  But Bob is right about making decisions in the know.  Make sure you fully understand what you are subscribing too.
 
Remember you are still in the determination process of if the cancer has left the prostate.  Signs are there that it may have, but, your lower PSA indicates a posibility of containment. 
Age 46 (44 when Dx)
Pre-op PSA was 19.8
Surgery on Feb 16, 2007 @ The City of Hope
Post-Op Pathology: Gleason 4+3=7, positive margins, Extra Prostatic Extension (EPE)
Bilateral seminal vesicle invasion (SVI); Stage pT3b, N0, Mx
HT began in May, '07 with Lupron and Casodex 50mg (2 Year ADT)
IMRT radiation for 38 Treatments ending August 3, '07
Current PSA (January 13, 2009): <0.1
 
You can visit my Journey at:
 
STAY POSITIVE!
 
 


mikee219
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2009
Total Posts : 53
   Posted 1/18/2009 2:21 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi Tony,

I catch your drift and agree.

Be well, friend.
PSA - 9
Prostatic Adenocarcinoma
Left base: Gleason grade 4+4=8, involving 2 of 2 cores and 80% of tissue
Left mid: Gleason grade 4+5=9, involving 2 of 2 cores and 70% of tissue
Left apex: Gleason grade 5+4=9, involving 2 of 2 cores and 80% of tissue with probable perineural invasion
Right base: Gleason grade 5+4=9, involving 2 of 2 cores and 50% of tissue
Right mid: Gleason grade 5+5=10, involving 2 of 2 cores and 80% of tissue with perineural invasion
Right apex: Gleason grade 5+4=9, involving 2 of 2 cores and 80% of tissue
Bone scan - negative


BillyMac
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 1858
   Posted 1/18/2009 4:00 PM (GMT -6)   
Zufus,
Bob, ol' mate, I am very interested in your posts and in total agreement re. some doctors and their agenda, but can you look at the wording in some of your posts. They sometimes seem to be a little disjointed and difficult to read making it tough to get the clear gist of what you are saying.
Bill
1/05 PSA----2.9 3/06-----3.2 3/07-------4.1 5/07------3.9 All negative DREs
Aged 59 when diagnosed
Biopsy 6/07
4 of 10 cores positive for Adenocarcinoma-------bummer!
Core 1 <5%, core 2----50%, core 3----60%, core 4----50%
Biopsy Pathologist's comment:
Gleason 4+3=7 (80% grade 4) Stage T2c
Neither extracapsular nor perineural invasion is identified
CT scan and Bone scan show no evidence of metastases
Da Vinci RP Aug 10th 2007
Post-op pathology:
Positive for perineural invasion and 1 small focal extension
Negative at surgical margins, negative node and negative vesicle involvement
Some 4+4=8 identified ........upgraded to Gleason 8
PSA Oct 07 <0.1 undetectable
PSA Jan 08 <0.1 undetectable
PSA April 08 <0.001 undetectable (disregarded due to lab "misreporting")
PSA August 08 <0.001 undetectable (disregarded due to lab "misreporting")
Post-op pathology rechecked by new lab:
Gleason downgraded to 4+3=7
Focal extension comprised of grade 3 cells
PSA September 08 <0.01 (new lab)


livinadream
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 1382
   Posted 1/18/2009 6:03 PM (GMT -6)   
Mike, I say go. It is easy to sift and sort through all the muck, and I know you will be told to gain knowledge, research research research. But at the end of the day it is you and only you that will be making the decision. If you decide to go, do not look back and do not second guess your decision. Duke is a wonderful facility and you will be getting the best of care. Trust my friend and do not allow yourself to get confused by to many opinions.
I love you my brother and I know that you will be well taken care of.

peace and love
dale
My PSA at diagnosis was 16.3
age 46 (current)
My gleason score from prostate was 4+5=9 and from the lymph nodes was 4+4=8
I had 44 IMRT's
Casodex
Currently on Lupron
I go to The Cancer Treatment Center of America
Married with two kids
latest PSA 5-27-08 0.11
PSA July 24th, 2008 is 0.04
PSA Dec 16th, 2008 is .06
Testosterone keeps rising, the current number is 156, up from 57 in May
cancer in 4 of 6 cores
92%
80%
37%
28%
 


BillyMac
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 1858
   Posted 1/18/2009 8:09 PM (GMT -6)   
mikee219,
I would most certainly go ahead with the consult.......you need as much information as you can get on which to base your decisions. But Bob is right, you have to approach this armed with your own knowledge base and a little skepticism does not go astray either. I know the fear is hard to get on top of...............the word cancer is enough to drive an icy dagger into our hearts but try and focus on stories such as these rather than than dwelling on the worst aspects:
www.yananow.net/Mentors/JulianS.htm and
www.yananow.net/Mentors/RobM.htm
Good luck with the consultation.
Bill
1/05 PSA----2.9 3/06-----3.2 3/07-------4.1 5/07------3.9 All negative DREs
Aged 59 when diagnosed
Biopsy 6/07
4 of 10 cores positive for Adenocarcinoma-------bummer!
Core 1 <5%, core 2----50%, core 3----60%, core 4----50%
Biopsy Pathologist's comment:
Gleason 4+3=7 (80% grade 4) Stage T2c
Neither extracapsular nor perineural invasion is identified
CT scan and Bone scan show no evidence of metastases
Da Vinci RP Aug 10th 2007
Post-op pathology:
Positive for perineural invasion and 1 small focal extension
Negative at surgical margins, negative node and negative vesicle involvement
Some 4+4=8 identified ........upgraded to Gleason 8
PSA Oct 07 <0.1 undetectable
PSA Jan 08 <0.1 undetectable
PSA April 08 <0.001 undetectable (disregarded due to lab "misreporting")
PSA August 08 <0.001 undetectable (disregarded due to lab "misreporting")
Post-op pathology rechecked by new lab:
Gleason downgraded to 4+3=7
Focal extension comprised of grade 3 cells
PSA September 08 <0.01 (new lab)


divo
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 637
   Posted 1/18/2009 8:17 PM (GMT -6)   
Mikee....:You go....listen....and then think, and THEN make your decision..... This is your life, your journey, you are the hero......Diane
Husband Pete
dx Jan 2001 gleason 4 + 3 PSA 16.5
Seed implant and conformal radiation and Lupron from Jan 2001 to Jan2002
2005 Dec PSA began to rise from .5 to 8 within 6 months
Salvage surgery at MSK 9/06 Dr. Eastham
Fistula operation 2/07 MSK Dr. Wong
Many cystoscopies and ER visits with strictures
Catheter for one year....Catheter taken out Sept 07..
Total Incontinence since then....
PSA .52 3/08
AUS Operation at MSK Sept 8 2008 Dr. Sandhu
Activated Oct 28th Dr. Sandhu..MSK
Some difficulty with AUS arising Nov 10 2008
Meeting with Dr. Sandhu to discuss AUS problems and new PSA test Dec 11, 2008
PSA .6 12/08
AUS improving..only 2 pads a day and one at night
Complete hip replacement surgery Dr. Waters Gainesville, FL 1/9/09
Forging ahead to health!

New Topic Post Reply Printable Version
Forum Information
Currently it is Sunday, September 23, 2018 5:57 AM (GMT -6)
There are a total of 3,005,814 posts in 329,265 threads.
View Active Threads


Who's Online
This forum has 161805 registered members. Please welcome our newest member, julia007.
230 Guest(s), 3 Registered Member(s) are currently online.  Details
SantaZia, Sarge 83, julia007