prostate biopsy letting cancer out of the prostate

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Dirtmover
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 158
   Posted 1/23/2009 11:28 AM (GMT -6)   
heres an intresting topic that doesnt seem to get alot of thought in new dx, what are the odds of a biopsy letting the cancer get out of the prostate as the needle leave the body? i personally dont have alot of in fo on this ,however together ,maybe we can come up with some intresting facts,is ther a more accurate way to dx the diases with out  tghe biopsy?          thanks ...dirt


Diagnosed November 2007   (43 years old )
PSA 3.9 / Gleason 6 / TC1 6 cores 1 shows 25%
Sugery scheduled 5/29/08 - City of Hope - Dr. Mark Kawachi
 "First show of the day"
 and now for the new ive been waiting for
 FINAL PATH REPORT:gleason upgraded to 3+4 T2c bilateral disease,tumor involvment 5%
extra prostatic extention:absent
seminal vesical invasion :absent
pathological staging:pTNM pT2 ORGAN CONFINED
margins free of carcinoma
usable erections ;6-6-08 with little blue pill
continence; 1 pad a day, dry at night
continence a non issue at 10weeks


BillSD
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2008
Total Posts : 143
   Posted 1/23/2009 12:06 PM (GMT -6)   
Here is an article related to the topic:

http://www.zerocancer.org/site/News2?JServSessionIdr009=3pcrut1gk4.app1a&page=NewsArticle&id=9013&news_iv_ctrl=1001

My oncologist said unless the cancer is in the margin and the needle penetrates the margin at the invasion site, there is little change the biopsy itself will spread the cancer.

So, choose your position...there seem to be learned proponents on both sides.

Bill in San Diego
Age 60 (59 when Dx) PSA 4.4
Biopsy 5/15/08 Gleason (3+3=6)
Bone scan and pelvic CT: clear
HT - 2 mo Casodex, 3 mo Trelstar
RRP Surgery 9/15/08 La Mesa California
Geason 3+4=7, Stage pT2c pN0 MX
Seminal vesicals, perineural margin, 18 lymph nodes, bladder neck: all carcinoma free
Perineural invasion & Distal Margin: Carcinoma present
IMRT adjuvant radiation (35 Treatments) End 1/27/09
PSA (10/13/08): <0.1
 


Mavica
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2008
Total Posts : 407
   Posted 1/23/2009 12:15 PM (GMT -6)   
I thought about this very subject/possibility . . . following my biopsy, not before (probably like most of us).  I suffered the ill effects of sepsis - and partial septic shock following my biopsy which resulted in some touch and go condition for several days when I was hospitalized.  I thought that if bacteria could cause the sepsis certainly some cancer might leak from the prostate punctures.  I don't know enough about medicine or science to venture a guess as to the possibilities of that happening - and in all of my reading on Prostate Cancer I've not seen this possibility seriously raised, though maybe I've missed mention of it.  I was wondering, also, if the seemingly universal recommendation from Urologists that prostate surgery be undertaken within six-weeks of the positive biopsy results and diagnosis of cancer is in any way tied to a fear of or risk of that cancer spreading if too much time passes without action.  The scientists are the ones who we'll have to take our lead from, but, like so many other areas of research, unanimity of viewpoint isn't easily reached.  Thanks for mentioning this issue.


Age:  59 (58 at diagnosis - June, 2008)

April '08 PSA 4.8 ("free PSA" 7.9), up from 3.5 year prior

June '08 had biopsy, 2 days later told results positive but in less than 1% of sample

Gleason's 3+3=6

Developed sepsis 2 days post-biopsy, seriously ill in hospital for 3 days

Dr. recommended robotic removal using da Vinci

Surgery 9/10/08

Northwestern Memorial Hospital, Chicago, IL

Dr. Robert Nadler, Urologist/Surgeon

Post-op Gleason's:  3+3, Tertiary 4

Margins:  Free

Bladder & Urethral:  Free

Seminal vesicles:  Not involved

Lymphatic/Vascular Invasion:  Not involved

Tumor:  T2c; Location:  Bilateral; Volume:  20%

Catheter:  Removed 12-days after surgery

Incontinent:  Yes (getting better, though)

Combination of Cialis and MUSE (alprostadil) three times weekly started 9-27-08

Returned to work 9-29-08 (18-19 days post-op)

PSA test result, post-op, 10/08: 0.0; 12/08: 0.0

 

Post Edited (Mavica) : 1/23/2009 10:24:43 AM (GMT-7)


zufus
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 3149
   Posted 1/23/2009 12:56 PM (GMT -6)   

The PCa cell migration from biopsies has been a continual arguement. It just shows how crazy the whole PCa scenario and methodologies for treatments, assessment, and such really are  (Twilight Zone-again). Who knows for certain????

 


 

Post Edited (zufus) : 1/23/2009 6:18:47 PM (GMT-7)


Tony Crispino
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 8128
   Posted 1/23/2009 1:08 PM (GMT -6)   
I don't really know this one. I can see it as possible. For me the door was wide open anyway...

Tony
Age 46 (44 when Dx)
Pre-op PSA was 19.8 : Surgery at The City of Hope on February 15, 2007
Geason 4+3=7, Stage pT3b, N0, Mx
Positive Margins (PM), Extra Prostatic Extension (EPE) : Bilateral Seminal vesicle invasion (SVI)
HT began in May, '07 with Lupron and Casodex 50mg (2 Year ADT)
IMRT radiation for 38 Treatments ending August 3, '07
Current PSA (January 13, 2009): <0.1
 
My Journal is at Tony's Blog  
 
STAY POSITIVE!


BillyMac
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 1858
   Posted 1/23/2009 4:51 PM (GMT -6)   
mavica,
I think you'll find that surgery is not done before the 6 week period has passed.....i.e. not within the 6 week period. This is to ensure that any possible post biopsy inflammation etc has settled down before the op is carried out. The possibility of biopsy needle tracking has been raised a few times here and although at first glance it would seem to be quite feasible, I have never been able to find a documented case of it happening. On the infection front, (sorry mavica to read that you were one of the unlucky ones) it is amazing that so very few end up with a prostate infection given the biopsy method and the bacteria encountered.
Bill
1/05 PSA----2.9 3/06-----3.2 3/07-------4.1 5/07------3.9 All negative DREs
Aged 59 when diagnosed
Biopsy 6/07
4 of 10 cores positive for Adenocarcinoma-------bummer!
Core 1 <5%, core 2----50%, core 3----60%, core 4----50%
Biopsy Pathologist's comment:
Gleason 4+3=7 (80% grade 4) Stage T2c
Neither extracapsular nor perineural invasion is identified
CT scan and Bone scan show no evidence of metastases
Da Vinci RP Aug 10th 2007
Post-op pathology:
Positive for perineural invasion and 1 small focal extension
Negative at surgical margins, negative node and negative vesicle involvement
Some 4+4=8 identified ........upgraded to Gleason 8
PSA Oct 07 <0.1 undetectable
PSA Jan 08 <0.1 undetectable
PSA April 08 <0.001 undetectable (disregarded due to lab "misreporting")
PSA August 08 <0.001 undetectable (disregarded due to lab "misreporting")
Post-op pathology rechecked by new lab:
Gleason downgraded to 4+3=7
Focal extension comprised of grade 3 cells
PSA September 08 <0.01 (new lab)

Post Edited (BillyMac) : 1/23/2009 2:54:16 PM (GMT-7)

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