Lifting, exercise, what is too much, why?

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Highwheel
New Member


Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 13
   Posted 2/10/2009 11:12 PM (GMT -6)   
Today had record highs for this area (Chicago) so I came home, took out the recumbent bicycle (think lawn chair on wheels) and did 15 very easy miles. I know this is a little early for me but it brings up the question of how much exercise can you do "early"? My surgery was 1/22. The doc said don't lift over 5lbs. So what could happen if you lift too much? What are the risks if you try to recuperate too fast?
Highwheel,
PSA - 4.3, T1C 
Biopsy - Nov. 17, 2008
2 of 8 cores positive
Gleason Score 3+3=6
Age at surgery - 52
da Vinci method surgery - Jan 22, 2009
Confined, no margins


Tony Crispino
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 8128
   Posted 2/10/2009 11:19 PM (GMT -6)   
Hello Highwheel,
The real question is ~ how did you feel after the ride? If OK, then I think your doctor will agree, that just don't overdo it. For me riding 15 miles, better be on my dirt bike with a well lubed engine. Even then that could be too strenuous. But if you are used to it, and you body isn't stressed, you should be fine. Don't rush anything, but I know when I was exercising after surgery, it was a steady improvement everyday. But you shouldn't try to peddle a race for a while, either.

Tony
Age 46 (44 when Dx)
Pre-op PSA was 19.8 : Surgery at The City of Hope on February 15, 2007
Geason 4+3=7, Stage pT3b, N0, Mx
Positive Margins (PM), Extra Prostatic Extension (EPE) : Bilateral Seminal vesicle invasion (SVI)
HT began in May, '07 with Lupron and Casodex 50mg (2 Year ADT)
IMRT radiation for 38 Treatments ending August 3, '07
Current PSA (January 13, 2009): <0.1
 
My Journal is at Tony's Blog  
 
STAY POSITIVE!


Steve n Dallas
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2008
Total Posts : 4840
   Posted 2/11/2009 4:06 AM (GMT -6)   
My surgeon almost smacked me when I asked if I could mow the grass while still having the catheter in....He said once the cath was out I could go back to normal duties...
 
But as Tony said: "Don't over do it."
Age 53   - 5'11"   205lbs
Overall Heath Condition - Good
PSA - July 2007 & Jan 2008 -> 1.3
Biopsy - 03/04/08 -> Gleason 6 
 
06/25/08 - Da Vinci robotic laparoscopy
Catheter in for five weeks.
Dry after 3 months.
 
10/03/08 - 1st Quarter PSA -> less then .01
01/16/09 - 2nd Quarter PSA -> less then .01
Surgeon - Keith A. Waguespack, M.D.
 


DoingFine
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2008
Total Posts : 46
   Posted 2/11/2009 7:19 AM (GMT -6)   
Great to hear that you are out on the bike.

I found that I could lift a reasonable amount if I was very, very careful to balance the weight: That is, being certain to have the same weight in both hands, and use my legs to lift. It was the unbalanced, pulling to the side that was real trouble.

I actually did cut the grass with the catheter . . . but it took a very, very long time! (and I would never do it again!)

Everything gets better with time.

Cheers,
Age at dx: 51 Age now: 52
Great health: Riding bike 200+ miles weekly; no symptoms
First PSA: 4.7 March 2008 Second PSA: 4.97 June 2008
Biopsy June 2008 Positive 5 of 12 cores T1c, Gleason 3+3, Bone scan: 7 July negative
RRP surgery 3 Sept 2008 at the Mayo Clinic: Rochester, MN, All clear
Catheter out 22 Sept 8:30 AM, catheter back in at 11:30, Catheter out 30 Sept (this time for good!)
Total continence, no erectile difficulties from day one (Cialis 10mg daily)
Back on bike 15 Oct. (42 days . . . with doc's approval)
Dec. 2 2008 psa Undetectable!


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25382
   Posted 2/11/2009 8:35 AM (GMT -6)   
Gee, sounds like we got some non-compliant patients here. My dr/surgeon stressed the 5 lbs limit, in my case, for a full 6 weeks. He said while the large incision heals up fast (I had open RP), and it did, there was a lot of delicate internal repair and micro stiching on the inside, that until it does heal properly, can come apart in various ways. I wasn't even allowed to drive for a full month plus until the original catheter was taken out.

Usually your body will tell you when you done enough, but to play on the side of safety, I followed every doctor's order to the letter of the law after surgery. Already been through enough hell, didn't want to do something stupid or overboard that would either hurt me or give me a major setback in my recovery.

So, if you do something against medical advice, just sign that little release paper, and do as you please and then you are on your own if something goes wrong.

Sounds harsh, don't mean it that way, but I hear all these non-compliant stories almost daily from my wife/nurse. As she says, people do have the right not to listen, the right to hurt and even kill themselves.

It's not a question of the macho/athletic man vs the couch potato/wimp, this is about proper healing from what some call one of the great major surgeries. Something to think about.

David in SC
Age 56, 56 at DX, PSA 7/7 5.8, 7/8 12.3
3rd Biopsy 9/8 Positive 7 of 7 cores pos, 40-90%, Gleason 7
Open RP surgery 11/14/8, Right nerves saved, 4 days hospital, staples out 11/24/8, 5th cath out on 1/19/9
Post-surgery Pathlogy Report:Gleason 3+4=7, pT2c, 42 grm, tumor 20%, Contained in capsular, clear margins, clear lymph nodes 
First PSA Post Surgery   2/9 .05
 
 


Tobmeister
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2009
Total Posts : 41
   Posted 2/11/2009 9:50 AM (GMT -6)   
I think the biggest risk is hernia if exerting too much stress on incisions inside and out. I was told 6 weeks until normal activity. The number one reason people have to have followup surgery is doing too much too soon - why not wait 6 weeks and be safe rather than sorry.
Diagnosed 11/12/2008 at age 51
PSA 2006 - 2.8, 2007 3.06, 2008 4.6 (remember the rate of increase is as important as the level), PSA free 8.7%
Family history - brother and uncle (remember family history is very important)
Gleason score 7 (4+3); 6 out of 19 cores sampled positive for cancer; perineural invasion present
Bone scan and CT scan both negative
Prostate mildly enlarged, DRE negative
DaVinci radical prostatectomy 12/30/2008 - left side nerves spared
Catheter removed 1/15/09 - no pain!

Post operative results:
Pathologic stage - T3aN0Mx
Post surgery biopsy - Bladder neck margin negative, lymph nodes negative, specimen confined, extracapsular extension positive, perineural invasion positive, seminal vesicle invasion negative, all margins negative, Gleason 3 + 3 = 6.

No incontinence problem within 1-2 weeks after catheter removal
1st post op PSA scheduled for 4/16/09

"Pick a good doctor and say your prayers"


Doting Daughter
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 1064
   Posted 2/11/2009 11:51 AM (GMT -6)   
As a few of the other posters have mentioned, I believe hernia is a big risk in addition to tearing the stitches. I think a stationary bike is ok, as long as you are ok, but don't be like my dad and blow leaves. I could have strangled him. :)
Father's Age 62 (now 63)
Original Gleason 3+4=7, Post-Op Gleason- 4+3=7,
DaVinci Surgery Aug 31, 2007
Focally Positive Right Margin, One positive node. T3a N1 M0.
Bone Scan/CT Negative (Sept. 10, 2007)
Oct. 17 PSA 0.07
Nov. 13 PSA 0.05
Casodex adm. Nov 07, Lupron beg. Dec 03, 2007 2 yrs
Radiation March 03-April 22, 2008- 8 weeks 5x a week
July 2, 08 PSA <.02
Oct. 10, 08 PSA <.02
Praying for a cured dad.

Co-Moderator Prostate Cancer Forum


DoingFine
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2008
Total Posts : 46
   Posted 2/11/2009 11:59 AM (GMT -6)   
I would never suggest anyone do as I did. I would only advise one to listen to his physician and very importantly . . . his body.

I think it important to recognize we all heal differently, at different rates, some faster, some slower than others. What was right for me, may be wrong for others, and vice versa.

With that said, I would never let life pass me by . . .
Age at dx: 51 Age now: 52
Great health: Riding bike 200+ miles weekly; no symptoms
First PSA: 4.7 March 2008 Second PSA: 4.97 June 2008
Biopsy June 2008 Positive 5 of 12 cores T1c, Gleason 3+3, Bone scan: 7 July negative
RRP surgery 3 Sept 2008 at the Mayo Clinic: Rochester, MN, All clear
Catheter out 22 Sept 8:30 AM, catheter back in at 11:30, Catheter out 30 Sept (this time for good!)
Total continence, no erectile difficulties from day one (Cialis 10mg daily)
Back on bike 15 Oct. (42 days . . . with doc's approval)
Dec. 2 2008 psa Undetectable!


kcragman
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2008
Total Posts : 240
   Posted 2/11/2009 1:01 PM (GMT -6)   
Yeah, hernia is an issue. We had one wild man at my office who started back too soon and too hard and experienced a hernia. I understand going through that is more painful than the robotic RP process. Then I think the guy tried to charge right through his hernia recovery period also. Good luck with that.

Generally you need to worry about straining in your lower abdominal area. That's why lifting is such an issue. If you can exercise without straining that area too much, then you might be OK. But your stomach muscles come into play a lot with just about everything you do so - as Tobmeister says - better to be safe than sorry.

kcragman
Age: 53; 52 at DX
March 2006: PSA 2.5
Dec 2007: PSA taken for insurance application. I did not see the results until late
              Jan '08 - after I was rejected. Their lab said PSA 4.5.
Feb 2008: PSA 3.7.
March 2008: Biopsy. Gleason 7 (4+3) 12 cores taken. 5 on the left side were
              cancerous and the 6th was suspect.  
May 5, 2008: Da Vinci robotic laparoscopy at GW Hospital, Washington DC.

Post op: Gleason 9 (4+5). 15% of prostate involved. Stage: pT3a. Negative margins. Lymph node and nerve samples taken, and appeared to be cancer free.

July 2008: PSA at 7 weeks was undetectable.
August 2008: PSA at 14 weeks (3 months) was undetectable.
Nov 2008: PSA at 6 months was undetectable.


gpg
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2009
Total Posts : 180
   Posted 2/11/2009 1:09 PM (GMT -6)   
Highwheel,

Have you watched a film of the proceedure? All manner of stuff gets cut and pushed to the side.

Some of us may be in better condition that others but healing is healing and it takes more than a few weeks.

I think you are pushing it, why don't you ask your Dr. just for grins.

Scott
Diagnosed @ 48yo 04/07
focal, low volume tumor gleason 6
RRP 07/30/07
Persistance of PSA
IMRT 11/07-01/08
Emerg, cysto obstructed bladder 01/08
Persistance of PSA
08/08 learned Dr. left significant amount of prostate
12/08 PCA3 negative
12/08 saturation biopsy 36 cores 24 having normal prostate tissue
12/08 referred whole to med malprac attorney


spisam
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2009
Total Posts : 47
   Posted 2/11/2009 5:17 PM (GMT -6)   
Dr Patel told me to lift no more than 15 lbs for 6 weeks and walk a lot. I'm doing what I'm told. No macho here.

Sam

califlostnspace
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2009
Total Posts : 51
   Posted 2/11/2009 9:10 PM (GMT -6)   

I am week 7 post op. two days ago I did the most moving around, walking, and exertion since before my RPP surgery.  that night I was feverish, threw up several times, and had general discomfort in my stomach area.  it has passed and hopefully it was a touch of the flu or stomach upset.  I really thought I had hurt myself somehow by doing too much that day.  up until that day I had been a couch potato.  I had gone back to work at week 4 doing paperwork only.  I have noticed that I did not have much stamina that day I was moving around.  I wonder how I am going to get back in decent shape to do my regular job in another 2 or 3 weeks...........guess I will start walking a bit each day. 


6'3"
205 lbs.
age at diagnosis:  51
diagnosed summer of 08
no symptoms
PSA  4.4
bone scan was normal
Radical Robotic Prostatectomy done with Da Vinci at UCSF on 12/23/08 by Dr. Peter Carroll
catheter removed 1/7/09
my local urologist referred me to a urologist at UCSF for the Da Vanci operation mainly because I had two
mesh panels in lower abdomen due to 2 hernia repairs 12 and 16 years ago
3 weeks post op I get a path report:   
 Your pathology results looked great.  Your final tumor grade was a Gleason 3+3, which was the same as your biospy grade.  The tumor did not extend outside of the prostate and all surgical resecetion margins were negative (meaning no tumor left behind).  The tumor did not involve the seminal vesicles.
Basically, the pathology is about as good as we could have hoped for.


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25382
   Posted 2/12/2009 9:20 AM (GMT -6)   
I was thinking about something my dr said Monday when we met. He said at almost 3 months out from open surgery, I really can't hurt anything inside, but he said there were lots of adhesions that can come loose and cause bad pain if I over do it. Even at 3 months out, I feel my lifting ability and upper body strength is perhaps 50 -60 % as pre-surgery, hard to be subjective about it really. The dr mostly said that your body will let you know if it's too much with activity, walking, lifting, exercise, and should listen to the early signals that you are pushing it. So on those basic instructions, I am continuing to heal and improve. My wife says she can really tell a big difference just in the past 2 weeks. Hope it continues that way.
Age 56, 56 at DX, PSA 7/7 5.8, 7/8 12.3
3rd Biopsy 9/8 Positive 7 of 7 cores pos, 40-90%, Gleason 7
Open RP surgery 11/14/8, Right nerves saved, 4 days hospital, staples out 11/24/8, 5th cath out on 1/19/9
Post-surgery Pathlogy Report:Gleason 3+4=7, pT2c, 42 grm, tumor 20%, Contained in capsular, clear margins, clear lymph nodes 
First PSA Post Surgery   2/9 .05
 
 


kw
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 883
   Posted 2/12/2009 9:03 PM (GMT -6)   

    Here is my little story about how much how soon!  about two weeks after my RRP I went in for a cystogram (if I am remembering correctly) which is where they fill your bladder with a solution to check for leaks before the cathiter is removed.  Anyway, I was situated where I could see the screen the radiologist was looking at.  I saw all these black jagged lines and asked what that was?  She said "those are all the stitches".  Seeing that made a believer out of me.  I did nothing for 6 weeks. 

    I would listen to your doctor and your body and take it easy for a while,

    Good Luck,  KW


    43 at Dx and Surgery (RRP)
    PSA 5.7, Biopsy 3 of 12 positive (up to 75%) all on left side of prostate, Gleason 7
    RRP on Oct. 17, 2006 - Nerves on right side saved. All Lab's clear. 
    Cathiter in for 28 days due to complications in healing. Removed Nov. 9, 2006
    First Post op PSA on Dec. 11, 2006  Undetectable 0.00.
    ED workable and usable with Viagra.
    Feb. 20th, 2007 - Feb. 4th, 2008  Cystoscope, Two Collagen injections,Second Opinion Consultation for Incontinance at OU Medical Center, Bio-Feedback training, Chiropractic, Accupuncture  to try to resolve ongoing incontinance (4-6 pads a day)  All PSA's 0.00.
    Feb. 22nd, 2008 - Surgery to install the AMS AdVance Male Sling.
    March 27th, 2008 - Sling not working, Little or no improvement.
    April 18, 2008 - Collagen injection.  Back to using 4-6 full pads a day within a week.
    May 14, 2008 - Another collagen injection to try to Band-Aid the leaking for our June cruise.  Will start making conusultation appiontments for AUS after we return.
    July 14th, 2008 - AUS consultation with Dr. Morey at UT Southwestern (Dallas).
    July 30, PSA 0.00.
    Aug. 22nd, 2008 - AUS Surgery by Dr. Morey
    Oct. 6th, 2008 - AUS Activation by Dr. Morey.  Working Great, only light drips and dribbles.
    Jan, 31st, 2009 - PSA ????? Will post when I get the results!  


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25382
   Posted 2/12/2009 9:22 PM (GMT -6)   
I would say KW just gave some good general advice about healing and not over doing it.
Age 56, 56 at DX, PSA 7/7 5.8, 7/8 12.3
3rd Biopsy 9/8 Positive 7 of 7 cores pos, 40-90%, Gleason 7
Open RP surgery 11/14/8, Right nerves saved, 4 days hospital, staples out 11/24/8, 5th cath out on 1/19/9
Post-surgery Pathlogy Report:Gleason 3+4=7, pT2c, 42 grm, tumor 20%, Contained in capsular, clear margins, clear lymph nodes 
First PSA Post Surgery   2/9 .05
 
 

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