Catheter OUT and get this!

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Jstars
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2005
Total Posts : 489
   Posted 2/18/2009 4:46 PM (GMT -6)   
Everything seemed pretty routine -- this was post-op Day 14 and out came the catheter -- no pain really.
Was able to hold in a full bladder at least while sitting -- and start and stop at will -- at least while sitting.

I am trying the old CUP catcher method I read about on here for the first day anyways. I just want to be able to see when the leaks occur etc.
Also nice since i can keep an eye on Mr Handy in case he shows any signs of life.

Having the cup turned out to be serendipitous. While doing a good strong pee, the flow faltered for a second then whooshed back again and into the cup popped a little bean size brown thing. Oh, I thought .. must be a late blood clot. But when I picked it up with a tweaser it was hard like a rock.

A stone??? Never had any (painful) symptoms that would ever have indicated such a thing. (However I DID have a 1,25D (Active form of vitamin D) level of 48 pg/ml back in December). Anyone familiar with the Marshall Protocol will know that such a level is above the Merck cutoff of around 42 where calcium will get reabsorbed from bone and elsewhere and get deposited in soft tisue areas like the kidneys or bladder.

A google check on Bladder Stones states that due to conditions such as BPH (where urine can stagnate) it can cause stones to form (but due to BPH constrictions never get passed out I guess). No doubt this is what happened to me. I wonder if there are more? ( I did see some brownish fuzzy things in the bottom of the urine bottle after flushing at the docs -- but I thought they were just blood clots or something -- plus I felt nothing while urinating at that time.

I do have a couple of closeup photos of the stone (with a Dime as comparison) -- It was (*CORRECTION!) 1cm x .5 cm x .4 cm thick -- a flat oval (no spikey things!).

Anyone else ever see this?

All for now ... monitoring The Cup and peeing like a teenager again -- sometimes even when I deliberately want to ...
Age 58, 192lbs, 6'4", 57 at DX, PSA Aug2008 7 4 ... June2007 4.7 (BPH + LUTS)
Biopsy Nov2008 1 of 12 cores 5%, Gleason 3+3 - Sona showed 140+ ml (110 grams) prostate size.
Prostate way too big for any Rad or Seed treatment or even trying to shrink.
open RP surgery 02/03/9, Nerve sparing both sides, 1 day in hospital,
Post-surgery Pathlogy Report - All margins clear - No Invasive spread - no change in Gleason score.
Cath out on 2/18/9, passed a STONE within hours. To be analyzed by doc.

Post Edited (JimbStars) : 2/19/2009 8:21:16 AM (GMT-7)


gpg
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2009
Total Posts : 180
   Posted 2/18/2009 5:41 PM (GMT -6)   
JimbStars said...

All for now ... monitoring The Cup and peeing like a teenager again -- sometimes even when I deliberately want to ...

Braggert tongue
 
Hope the stone was a one time issue and that you continue to have a speedy recovery.  I also saw bits of sutures and tissue for a couple of months post surg.
 
Scott
Diagnosed @ 48yo 04/07
focal, low volume tumor gleason 6
RRP 07/30/07 robotic
Persistance of PSA
IMRT 11/07-01/08
Emerg, cysto obstructed bladder 01/08
Persistance of PSA
08/08 learned Dr. left significant amount of prostate
12/08 PCA3 negative
12/08 saturation biopsy 36 cores 24 having normal prostate tissue
12/08 referred whole to med malprac attorney


James C.
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4462
   Posted 2/18/2009 5:52 PM (GMT -6)   
Interesting. While I can see where you could get a smooth stone just from forming in sediment below the level of the catheter, I don't know that anything like that could form in 14 days. I'd take/send it to a Urologist and ask them to examine it for you. Isn't it nice to be able to push that urinal scent block around while peeing? tongue
James C. Age 62
Co-Moderator- Prostate Cancer Forum
4/07 PSA 7.6, referred to Urologist, recheck 6.7
7/07 Biopsy: 3 of 16 PCa, 5% involved, left lobe, GS 3/3=6
9/07 Nerve sparing open RRP- Path Report: GS 3+3=6 Stg. pT2c, 110gms, margins clear
16 mts: ED- 50 mg Viagra 3X week, pump daily,Trimix .35ml 2X week continues
PSA's: .04 each 3 months


BillyMac
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 1858
   Posted 2/18/2009 6:02 PM (GMT -6)   
Don't know what it could be but one thing it isn't is a stone. Stones are formed in the kidneys over quite a period of time............if they are expelled on their own they travel via the ureters to the bladder and thence to the outside world. A stone of about 2-3mm diameter causes excruciating pain every millimetre of its journey till it reaches the bladder and even then you can feel that it's irritating the bladder. There is no way a stone of 2cmx1cmx0.5 cm could have (1) fitted through the ureters and (2) you being unaware of its presence if it moved from the kidney. It will be interesting to see what your doc thinks it is. The good news on the recovery so far is great.
Bill
1/05 PSA----2.9 3/06-----3.2 3/07-------4.1 5/07------3.9 All negative DREs
Aged 59 when diagnosed
Biopsy 6/07
4 of 10 cores positive for Adenocarcinoma-------bummer!
Core 1 <5%, core 2----50%, core 3----60%, core 4----50%
Biopsy Pathologist's comment:
Gleason 4+3=7 (80% grade 4) Stage T2c
Neither extracapsular nor perineural invasion is identified
CT scan and Bone scan show no evidence of metastases
Da Vinci RP Aug 10th 2007
Post-op pathology:
Positive for perineural invasion and 1 small focal extension
Negative at surgical margins, negative node and negative vesicle involvement
Some 4+4=8 identified ........upgraded to Gleason 8
PSA Oct 07 <0.1 undetectable
PSA Jan 08 <0.1 undetectable
PSA April 08 <0.001 undetectable (disregarded due to lab "misreporting")
PSA August 08 <0.001 undetectable (disregarded due to lab "misreporting")
Post-op pathology rechecked by new lab:
Gleason downgraded to 4+3=7
Focal extension comprised of grade 3 cells
PSA September 08 <0.01 (new lab)

Post Edited (BillyMac) : 2/18/2009 4:06:16 PM (GMT-7)


Jstars
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2005
Total Posts : 489
   Posted 2/18/2009 8:17 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks for the comments, support and advice.
Billy you could be right that it is something else.
Yep James -- pushing away -- nice.
Only my Uro or someone can figure this one out.
I did call it a bladder stone just for because i have felt no pains -- so as you said is unlikely from the kidney.
But the stagnant urine/BPH Theory would make sense -- it grew right there so no other passing required.
I dunno if the fact that it was only hours since the cath came out -- urethra still enlarged perhaps? Enough to
let that boulder thru? Or maybe the catheter/deflated balloon dragged it down a ways ??

I will call my Urologist tomorrow and see if he wants to look at it (and me) soon.

Laters,
jim
Age 58, 192lbs, 6'4", 57 at DX, PSA Aug2008 7 4 ... June2007 4.7 (BPH + LUTS)
Biopsy Nov2008 1 of 12 cores 5%, Gleason 3+3 - Sona showed 140+ ml (110 grams) prostate size.
Prostate way too big for any Rad or Seed treatment or even trying to shrink.
open RP surgery 02/03/9, Nerve sparing both sides, 1 day in hospital, cath due out on 2/18/9
Post-surgery Pathlogy Report - All margins clear - No Invasive spread - no change in Gleason score.


Jstars
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2005
Total Posts : 489
   Posted 2/19/2009 10:22 AM (GMT -6)   
Made a correction in the size of that stone (reduced by 1/2) -- read the scale wrong - duh!

Also my Uro's office said they would send it out for analysis -- so I'll be off to do that soon.

Hey I noticed one way to leak a lot less in the early days of continence rehab -- Don't drink a lot and pee for real whenever you get the urge -- Hah hah hah.

jim
Age 58, 192lbs, 6'4", 57 at DX, PSA Aug2008 7 4 ... June2007 4.7 (BPH + LUTS)
Biopsy Nov2008 1 of 12 cores 5%, Gleason 3+3 - Sona showed 140+ ml (110 grams) prostate size.
Prostate way too big for any Rad or Seed treatment or even trying to shrink.
open RP surgery 02/03/9, Nerve sparing both sides, 1 day in hospital,
Post-surgery Pathlogy Report - All margins clear - No Invasive spread - no change in Gleason score.
Cath out on 2/18/9, passed a STONE within hours. To be analyzed by doc.

Post Edited (JimbStars) : 2/19/2009 8:26:17 AM (GMT-7)


rework
New Member


Date Joined Jan 2009
Total Posts : 9
   Posted 2/19/2009 3:41 PM (GMT -6)   
My situation was similar.  Up until about a month after my catheter was removed, I was able to put out small forest fires.  But then the flow became slower and slower.  I went to see my Uro, he poked around in my urethra for awhile and said "Oh, here's the problem; you have a stone in here."  He was able to get ahold of it and pull it out.  Things have been good since

Surgery in July,08, age 60
more later...


Jstars
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2005
Total Posts : 489
   Posted 2/19/2009 4:18 PM (GMT -6)   
Rework,
Yes that is exactly what I am looking for -- if the flow gets meager I will suspect a stone is in the way (even if no pain being felt -- i suppose if the stone is right at the Bottleneck where the bladder sphincter muscle is it might not irritate that much.
Thanks for that bit of information.

Also when I brought in the stone, the Nurse Practitioner said that, yes, a stone could form just within a 14 day timeframe due to having the catheter in -- and also some bacterial infections can help grow such stones rapidly. She felt sure that the Doc would have seen it when he did the Cystoscopy a couple weeks before the surgery -- and he obviously did not.

I also took a look at it under a low power microscope -- nice mineral inclusions lacing the 'stoney' parts. I took a few pictures of those too before I let the stone go. How do you attach pictures to these posts ?? Maybe this website should get into the 21st Century sometime?

jim
Age 58, 192lbs, 6'4", 57 at DX, PSA Aug2008 7 4 ... June2007 4.7 (BPH + LUTS)
Biopsy Nov2008 1 of 12 cores 5%, Gleason 3+3 - Sona showed 140+ ml (110 grams) prostate size.
Prostate way too big for any Rad or Seed treatment or even trying to shrink.
open RP surgery 02/03/9, Nerve sparing both sides, 1 day in hospital,
Post-surgery Pathlogy Report - All margins clear - No Invasive spread - no change in Gleason score.
Cath out on 2/18/9, passed a STONE within hours. To be analyzed by doc.

Post Edited (JimbStars) : 2/19/2009 6:29:57 PM (GMT-7)


James C.
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4462
   Posted 2/19/2009 4:53 PM (GMT -6)   
Jim said: I also took a look at it under a low power microscope -- nice mineral inclusions lacing the 'stoney' parts. I took a few pictures of those too before I let the stone go. How do you attach pictures to these posts ?? Maybe this website should get into the 21st Century sometime?

Jim, there is no capability to add or view photos here. You can put them on one of the various free photo viewing website and post a link to it here. By the way, for those who may not understand, this website is owned and paid for by one dedicated person who provides us this forum free. It is expensive to maintain and relies on small amounts of money from advertising and sometimes charitable donations of the members. Given the money available, it's as close to the 21st Century as it can get. smilewinkgrin
James C. Age 62
Co-Moderator- Prostate Cancer Forum
4/07 PSA 7.6, referred to Urologist, recheck 6.7
7/07 Biopsy: 3 of 16 PCa, 5% involved, left lobe, GS 3/3=6
9/07 Nerve sparing open RRP- Path Report: GS 3+3=6 Stg. pT2c, 110gms, margins clear
16 mts: ED- 50 mg Viagra 3X week, pump daily,Trimix .35ml 2X week continues
PSA's: .04 each 3 months


Jstars
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2005
Total Posts : 489
   Posted 2/19/2009 8:33 PM (GMT -6)   
I hear you James ... I did not know this was a one man operation ... good for Him!

Yes I figured a pix website with a link would do it -- but I am basically lazy and have not got around to that yet.

jim
Age 58, 192lbs, 6'4", 57 at DX, PSA Aug2008 7 4 ... June2007 4.7 (BPH + LUTS)
Biopsy Nov2008 1 of 12 cores 5%, Gleason 3+3 - Sona showed 140+ ml (110 grams) prostate size.
Prostate way too big for any Rad or Seed treatment or even trying to shrink.
open RP surgery 02/03/9, Nerve sparing both sides, 1 day in hospital,
Post-surgery Pathlogy Report - All margins clear - No Invasive spread - no change in Gleason score.
Cath out on 2/18/9, passed a STONE within hours. To be analyzed by doc.

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