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John T
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 4168
   Posted 4/20/2009 1:03 PM (GMT -7)   
There hasn't been a discussion on diet for a while on this site and the newly diagosed may benefit from some of our thoughts and experiences.
 
When I knew that I couldn't have treatment for a few months and any HT would nulify the test I was scheduled for, I was concerned that my PC would spread during this time. I had a psa of 40 that was still rising. I asked my doctor what I could do to slow down the PC during my waiting period: he said go on a vegan diet. I said are you kidding? he said he was dead serious.
He said that if anyone told him 10 years ago that diet had any effect on PC he would have dismissed them outright, but after seeing many patients that were on "weird diets" and their PC had dramatically slowed he couldn't ignore the influence of diet anymore. He suggested a couple of books and said make up your own mind. So I started to do some research.
 
I don't think there is a magic pill or diet that can cure PC as some claim, but I do think there is substantial evidence that diet and supplements can slow the growth, and prevent some types of PC and reoccurrances. My PSA went from 40 to 30 and stayed level for 4 months with nothing changed but diet and supplements. It had never gone down in 10 years except once when I took proscar then immediately started to rise again.
 
I eliminated all red meat and dairy and try to keep my intake of animal protien, fish and chicken, to about 5%. Lost 10 lbs and feel better than I did 20 years ago; have ton's more energy. All my heart related numbers such as HDL, LDL, tryglycrides, and glucose have all gone from high to low range.
 
I take normal levels of Vitimine C, and D, selenium, calcium citrate, pomegranate extract, green tea extract, and lycopene extract.
 
I tell my friends I'm a jack vegan, I don't think a small amout of meat or dairy will harm you and might have some meat occasionally in the future. For a guy that lived on burgers and carne asada burritios the diet change was an adjustment; it's hard to find fast foods that are healthy. I needed the shock of having PC to change my habits.
 
I'm convinced that my previous diet probably played a role in my getting PC and definately had a role in my high heart related numbers. My doc said that most of his patients die from heart attacks not from PC and he specializes in advanced PC cases. So at the very least I'm covering the heart angle.
JT
 
 
 

64 years old.

I had an initial PSA test in 1999 of 4.4. PSA increased every 6 months reaching 40 in 5-08. PSA free ranged from 16% to 10%. Over this time period I had a total of 13 biopsies and an endorectal MRIS all negative and have seen doctors at Long Beach, UCLA, UCSF and UCI. DX has always been BPH and continue to get biopsies every year.

In 10-08 I had a 25 core biopsy that showed 2 cores positive, gleason 6 at less than 5%. Surgery was recommended and I was in the process of interviewing surgeons when my wife's oncologist recommended I get a 2nd opinion from a prostate oncologist.

I saw Dr Sholtz, in Marina Del Rey, and he said that the path reports indicated no tumor, but indolant cancer clusters that didn't need any treatment. He was concerned that my PSA history indicated that I had a large amount of PC somewhere that had yet to be uncovered and put me through several more tests.

A color doppler targeted biopsy in 11-08 found a large tumor in the transition zone, gleason 6 and 7. Because of my high PSA Dr. suspected lymph node involvement, 30% chance, and sent me to Holland for a Combidex MRI, even though bone and CT scans were clear.

Combidex MRI showed clear lymph nodes and a 2,5 cm tumor in the anterior. I was his 1st patient to come up clear on the Combidex which has a 96% accuracy,

I've been on a no meat and dairy diet since 12-08 and PSA reduce to 30 while I awaited the Combidex MRI.

The location of the tumor in the anterior apex next to the urethea makes a good surgical margin very unlikely. Currently on Casodex and Proscar for 8 weeks to shrink my 60 mm prostate. Treatment will be seeds followed by 5 weeks of IMRT while continuing on Casodex and Proscar. So far no side affects from the Casodex.

As of April 10 and 7 weeks on Casodex and Proscar PSA has gone from 30 to 0.62 and protate from 60mm to 32mm. Very minor side affects. Doc says all this indicates tumor is not aggessive

Awaiting schedule for seed impants

 


Tony Crispino
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 8128
   Posted 4/20/2009 2:04 PM (GMT -7)   
To date, no studies are proving one way or another that diet causes prostate cancer, nor can prevent it's progression. That stated, my oncologist suggests eating a heart healthy diet is always a good thing. So I have lowered my red meat intake, but I will eat a good steak once in a while.

A recent study on Vitamin E and Selenium as preventive supplements was tossed out and proved that niether were effective in preventing prostate cancer or slowing it's progression. In fact over consumption of Selenium supplementation was found to be harmful. One vitamin that is important is Vitamin D3. I take 3,000 IU's a day. It is good in multiple ways and safe to take in high dose. Because I am on hormonal therapy, D3 is good for my bones and lessens the harmful effects of testosterone ablation. D3 also has been proven to help the body fight prostate cancer.

There is currently a study that has early positive results showing Pomegranite juice does lowe PSA. But it is too early to tell if it is simply masking PSA and not extending lives.

The #1 cause of prostate cancer is genetics. And this does not require an immediate family member to be positive for the disease. It can be further back in your ancestry.

Someone once wrote me and told me about he and his identical twin brother and their fight with prostate cancer. Both were raised with a Vegan diet. Twin A (the one who wrote me) started eating red meat when he was a teenager. Twin B never did and always was physically fit. Twin B died from his fight with prostate cancer. Twin A is still living with advanced disease some 8 years after his brother died. I know it's one case, but I always think of it when these discussions about diets arise. There are many men who are very compassionate about the Myers suggestion for a Mediteranean diet. Dr. Myers is now my Facebook friend and he is still very adament about it. He believes it works and practices what he preaches. But I still will eat my red meat on occasion.

If I had a choice between red meat and sushi, the sushi would win every time. LOL, but it ain't cheap, and I can't afford to do so.

One other thing: alcohol, when consumed in high amounts is bad for anyone. It has been proven so in studies to increase occurances of several cancers including prostate cancer. But it is mixed in the reviews. Red wine has also been known to have the same effects as Pomegranite juice. The jury is still out on that one. So pass me the red wine with my steak...

Tony
Age 46 (44 when Dx)
Pre-op PSA was 19.8 : Surgery at The City of Hope on February 16, 2007
Geason 4+3=7, Stage pT3b, N0, Mx
Positive Margins (PM), Extra Prostatic Extension (EPE) : Bilateral Seminal vesicle invasion (SVI)
HT began in May, '07 with Lupron and Casodex 50mg (2 Year ADT)
IMRT radiation for 38 Treatments ending August 3, '07
Current PSA (January 13, 2009): <0.1
 
My Journal is at Tony's Blog  
 
STAY POSITIVE!


John T
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 4168
   Posted 4/20/2009 4:52 PM (GMT -7)   
Tony,
I absolutely agree that there is no scientific evidence supporting diet and cancer, and there won't be in our lifetime. The only two major studies on diet that I'm aware of is the Framingham study, and that was on heart and the China study. The costs for a large study are too prohibitive and the only funding available is from the large drug companies, food companies or the government. No one will fund a study that would be against their best interests and the political fall out from a government study would be just to great. (the food pyramid is a prime example). Even the small study on pomegranites was funded by POM Wonderful a California grower of pomegranites,
The China study which was funded by the Chinese govt was the largest study conducted on a genetically homogenous population and the results were a high correlation between the intake of animal protien and the insidence of Western disease, heart, cancer and auto imune. "The China Study" by T Colin Cambel. It's an interesting read. This also correlates with the fact that Asians have a much lower incidence of PC while Asian Americans have the same incidence as the rest of the US population.
Genetics as the cause of cancer is all over the map. I've seen some research that indicates that genetics are 5% and other that say they are the main cause.
The studies on Vitamine E and Selenium are flawed in that any attempt to isolate just one or two dietary variables with out regard to everthing else a person is injesting is not a good valid study.
I think that the best evidence we have is that most prostate oncologists that treat a lot of advanced cases all recommend a diet low in meat and dairy. The supplements they recommend vary.
I hear you when you say somthings are not worth giving up, mine is beer and cigars even when I know they are bad for me.

64 years old.

I had an initial PSA test in 1999 of 4.4. PSA increased every 6 months reaching 40 in 5-08. PSA free ranged from 16% to 10%. Over this time period I had a total of 13 biopsies and an endorectal MRIS all negative and have seen doctors at Long Beach, UCLA, UCSF and UCI. DX has always been BPH and continue to get biopsies every year.

In 10-08 I had a 25 core biopsy that showed 2 cores positive, gleason 6 at less than 5%. Surgery was recommended and I was in the process of interviewing surgeons when my wife's oncologist recommended I get a 2nd opinion from a prostate oncologist.

I saw Dr Sholtz, in Marina Del Rey, and he said that the path reports indicated no tumor, but indolant cancer clusters that didn't need any treatment. He was concerned that my PSA history indicated that I had a large amount of PC somewhere that had yet to be uncovered and put me through several more tests.

A color doppler targeted biopsy in 11-08 found a large tumor in the transition zone, gleason 6 and 7. Because of my high PSA Dr. suspected lymph node involvement, 30% chance, and sent me to Holland for a Combidex MRI, even though bone and CT scans were clear.

Combidex MRI showed clear lymph nodes and a 2,5 cm tumor in the anterior. I was his 1st patient to come up clear on the Combidex which has a 96% accuracy,

I've been on a no meat and dairy diet since 12-08 and PSA reduce to 30 while I awaited the Combidex MRI.

The location of the tumor in the anterior apex next to the urethea makes a good surgical margin very unlikely. Currently on Casodex and Proscar for 8 weeks to shrink my 60 mm prostate. Treatment will be seeds followed by 5 weeks of IMRT while continuing on Casodex and Proscar. So far no side affects from the Casodex.

As of April 10 and 7 weeks on Casodex and Proscar PSA has gone from 30 to 0.62 and protate from 60mm to 32mm. Very minor side affects. Doc says all this indicates tumor is not aggessive

Awaiting schedule for seed impants

 


montee
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 315
   Posted 4/20/2009 7:23 PM (GMT -7)   

How do you account for the fact that Asian men have the lowest occurance of PC, but when they move to this country their occurrences are the same as a white male in the U.S. if not for the diet.

I have never been a big red meat eater, maybe once a week before diagnosis, dairy however was a different story, I could eat my weight in bryers or homemade ice cream.  No previous prostate cancer in parent or grandparents.  But Dr. at Emory did say that one factor put me in the highest risk category, I was a Male.


diagnosed sept 2006 @ 54 years old, live in Georgia, gleason 3+4=7, (r) lobe only

psa 4.7 (psa rose 1 point per year for 3 years, urologist said still under 4 and no concern. If I can find out about PSA velocity, why didn't he know!)

Told not to have surgery at Dana Farber as cancer had already penetrated prostate, in seminal vesicles, would have positive margins. Would only treat with radiation and HT

RP Emory Atlanta December 2006. Path-negative margin, negative lymph nodes, negative SV, both Lobes involved, 40% gland involved
multifocal perineural invasion, Gleason 3+4=7

Fully continent 2 weeks post catheter removal

1st psa April 2007-<0.04, 6 mos-<0.04, 9 mos <0.04, 1yr <0.04, 21 mos <0.04, 2 yr 0.04 (rising?) 


Tony Crispino
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 8128
   Posted 4/20/2009 10:56 PM (GMT -7)   
There is a study that is being undertaken to determine if obesity is a cause. I could understand that. In Asian countries there has been an increase in recent years of prostate cancer rates. So I don't think its the food we are eating alone. But eating too much and carrying extra weight is a possibility and is being studied in Japan. Japan has recently adopted rules to address increasing obesity that include higher taxes and insurance rates for obese people to offset growing healthcare costs.

Doctors here still need to explain why white Americans have a lower rate than the African American community. Genetics is one possibility and socialeconomics may also contribute. And we know for a fact that our odds are 1 in 6 with know family history, and 1 in three with family history...that's genetics!

My oncologist, Dr. Nicholas Vogelzang, pointed out at a seminar that we have no more proof that what's in our diet causes any more prostate cancer or causes worse progression any more than our toothpastes, deodorants, water bottles, and water processing plants can. He was being general, but there are no supporting studies that indicate a Vegan diet is better than meat and potatoes for prostate cancer

I still say pass the red wine. I like my steaks medium. But in the good sense of a heart healthy diet, I have reduced the red meat intake.

Tony
Age 46 (44 when Dx)
Pre-op PSA was 19.8 : Surgery at The City of Hope on February 16, 2007
Geason 4+3=7, Stage pT3b, N0, Mx
Positive Margins (PM), Extra Prostatic Extension (EPE) : Bilateral Seminal vesicle invasion (SVI)
HT began in May, '07 with Lupron and Casodex 50mg (2 Year ADT)
IMRT radiation for 38 Treatments ending August 3, '07
Current PSA (January 13, 2009): <0.1
 
My Journal is at Tony's Blog  
 
STAY POSITIVE!


Gmike
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2009
Total Posts : 48
   Posted 4/21/2009 3:16 AM (GMT -7)   
I've just been reading Dr. Patrick Walsh's book "Guide To Surviving Prostate Cancer." He states that the 3 biggest risk factors for PCa are age, race, and family history. On diet he says "Animal fat is bad for you, especially the fat found in red meat and dairy products. Men who eat a lot of these foods are more likely to develop advanced prostate cancer and die from it. Why? There is an enzyme in prostate cancer cells that craves the fatty acids in dairy products and red meat. Consequently, when a man with prostate cancer consumes a diet high in these foods, his cancer cells get nine times more energy than normal cells. ......." Maybe that's why I lust for Breyers Natural Vanilla Bean Ice Cream.

I have an appointment with my Uro in two weeks as a prelude to my second biopsy. It would be so nice to have a clear yes or no result since as a GM retiree I may soon lose my health insurance.

Mike
PSA
2004: 2.0
2006: 4.0 (40% Free)
2007: 3.1
2008: 5.03

Biopsy (age 58)
August 2008: 1 core of 12 was "atypical" Prostate weight 46 grams

Family history: Father and Grandfather both had PCa


divo
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 637
   Posted 4/21/2009 7:02 PM (GMT -7)   
John, This is a very useful thread, and good for many who either have or want to avoid problems. My husband, Pete, a scientist, totally believes that Vitamin D3 is the proponent lacking in many people. We both take 2 or 3,000 units a day. There have been many studies lately connecting lack of Vit D to Prostate cancer, breast cancer, and also autism. Also, as both you and Tony mentioned, other fruits and vegetables, that we all know about are extremely valuable....Pete's PSA has been very slowly rising again...(after two major treatments), but capsacin, pomegranite juice, green tea, and little or no red meat seem to have kept it a bay....We will see in the forseeable future.. Di
Husband Pete
dx Jan 2001 gleason 4 + 3 PSA 16.5
Seed implant and conformal radiation and Lupron from Jan 2001 to Jan2002
2005 Dec PSA began to rise from .5 to 8 within 6 months
Salvage surgery at MSK 9/06 Dr. Eastham
Fistula operation 2/07 MSK Dr. Wong
Many cystoscopies and ER visits with strictures
Catheter for one year....Catheter taken out Sept 07..
Total Incontinence since then....
PSA .52 3/08
AUS Operation at MSK Sept 8 2008 Dr. Sandhu
Activated Oct 28th Dr. Sandhu..MSK
Some difficulty with AUS arising Nov 10 2008
Meeting with Dr. Sandhu to discuss AUS problems and new PSA test Dec 11, 2008
PSA .6 12/08
AUS improving..only 2 pads a day and one at night
Complete hip replacement surgery Dr. Waters Gainesville, FL 1/9/09
Hip replacement total success..pain gone!!
PSA .7 2/10/09

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