Question on Vitamins

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IKE-D
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2009
Total Posts : 77
   Posted 6/13/2009 8:25 PM (GMT -7)   
Hello All:
 
I don't recall my doctor placing any restrictions on taking vitamins after surgery. Any one here taking any supplements such as centrum? Any other recommendations?
 

>Age 41 -July 05 -Psa during annual physical went from previous 2.8 to 3
>Biopsy by 'primary' Urol Aug 05 - Gleason 6 low grade. 2nd opinion at  Hopkins confirmed Dx
>Chose Active Surv (AC)- modified diet etc.
>Around Oct 07 Psa moved up to 5.5. I decide to treat at Hopkins. Not sure what kind yet. My doctor decided on re-biopsy first.
>2nd Biopsy Dec 07 at Hopkins was NEGATIVE for Pca! Nothing found in 14 cores!
>'Primary' Urologist baffled. Planned a saturated biopsy (22 cores) to settle issue once and for all. I wasn't going to do 22 cores wide awake!
>July 07 - Did MRI just for comfort. Nothing significant found. No spread. I'd live! Still in AC mode.
>July 08 - Saturated Biopsy performed. Cancer confirmed again (of course, you took 22 cores)! Same Gleason score, same grade, similar numbers but Urol says treat very soon! I am thinking not so fast - numbers are same and you told me it means not aggressive! In any case I agreed with Urol I will go the way of the Seeds. I research seeds more and I don't like it.
>July 08 - Dec 08 I re-lapse back into AC mode but seriously researching/considering treatment options beside surgery - went on to Mass Gen and Georgetown to explore proton therapy and Cyberknife respectively. Anything but Surgery! Both experts who were about my age were unanimous in strongly declaring they will chose surgery 'if they were me'. In addition, I learn that if either if these radition methods (and seeds too!)  failed, no backup plan (or will be complicated)! I got the message!
>Jan 09. Went back to see my doc at Hopkins. I decide to put my fate in the hands 'The Da Vinci Robot' then!
> May 09. Had surgery. some Pain and discomfort but normal. Pathology all clear. Gleason 6 as before. Feeling very lucky. I gambled (based on my numbers) on the slow nature of the cancer and took my time. Very happy I finally did it. Hoping for a great recovery of all 'key' functions. Great wife and family helping out.


Steve n Dallas
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2008
Total Posts : 4815
   Posted 6/14/2009 3:12 AM (GMT -7)   
Guessing that you'd rather not get into the subject of the "effectiveness" of vitamins...The following quote from the following web site sums up my feelings:
 
"Unless your doctor says you need supplements for a specific diagnosis, there is no reason to take them and no need to spend the money," says the review's senior author, Christian Gluud, MD, of Copenhagen University Hospital in Denmark.
 
While some vitamin supplements can boost your health, others may actually harm.
http://www.rd.com/living-healthy/are-vitamins-really-that-good-for-you-/article46647.html

But, if you were taking vitamins before surgery, you should be fine taking them now.
Age 54   - 5'11"   205lbs
Overall Heath Condition - Good
PSA - July 2007 & Jan 2008 -> 1.3
Biopsy - 03/04/08 -> Gleason 6 
 
06/25/08 - Da Vinci robotic laparoscopy
Catheter in for five weeks.
Dry after 3 months.
 
10/03/08 - 1st Quarter PSA -> less then .01
01/16/09 - 2nd Quarter PSA -> less then .01
xx/xx/xx   - 3rd Quater skipped
05/14/09  - 4th Quarter PSA -> less then .01
Surgeon - Keith A. Waguespack, M.D.
 


IKE-D
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2009
Total Posts : 77
   Posted 6/14/2009 4:49 AM (GMT -7)   
Thanks Steve! Very useful material. Was taking centrum on and off prior to surgery and was just wondering if it's ok to continue. I'd get a call from my Dr's office this week Will ask them also, Thanks again!

Regards
Ike
>Age 41 -July 05 -Psa during annual physical went from previous 2.8 to 3
>Biopsy by 'primary' Urol Aug 05 - Gleason 6 low grade. 2nd opinion at  Hopkins confirmed Dx
>Chose Active Surv (AS)- modified diet etc.
>Around Oct 07 Psa moved up to 5.5. I decide to treat at Hopkins. Not sure what kind yet. My doctor decided on re-biopsy first.
>2nd Biopsy Dec 07 at Hopkins was NEGATIVE for Pca! Nothing found in 14 cores!
>'Primary' Urologist baffled. Planned a saturated biopsy (22 cores) to settle issue once and for all. I wasn't going to do 22 cores wide awake!
>July 07 - Did MRI just for comfort. Nothing significant found. No spread. I'd live! Still in AS mode.
>July 08 - Saturated Biopsy performed. Cancer confirmed again (of course, you took 22 cores)! Same Gleason score, same grade, similar numbers but Urol says treat very soon! I am thinking not so fast - numbers are same and you told me it means not aggressive! In any case I agreed with Urol that I will go the way of the Seeds. I research seeds more and I don't like it.
>July 08 - Dec 08 I re-lapse back into AS mode but seriously researching/considering treatment options beside surgery - went on to Mass Gen and Georgetown to explore proton therapy and Cyberknife respectively. Anything but Surgery! Both experts who are about my age were unanimous in strongly declaring they will chose surgery 'if they were me'. In addition, I learn that if either if these radiation methods (and seeds too!)  failed, no backup plan (or will be complicated)! I got the message!
>Jan 09. Went back to see my doc at Hopkins. I decide to put my fate in the hands  of the 'Da Vinci Robot' then!
> May 09. Had surgery. some Pain and discomfort but normal. Pathology all clear. Gleason 6 as before. Feeling very lucky. I gambled (based on my numbers and got 4 more years!) on the slow nature of the cancer and took my time. Very happy I finally did it. Hoping for a great recovery of all 'key' functions. Great wife and family helping out.


engineer55
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 121
   Posted 6/14/2009 10:36 AM (GMT -7)   
I think the answer is stay away from any type of blood thinners, something like niacin would not be good.

CPA
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 655
   Posted 6/14/2009 12:45 PM (GMT -7)   
Greetings, Ike.  I take vitamin D - my primary care doc says that my vitamin D level was low after recent bloodwork.  Thats the only vitamin I take.  David
Age 55
Diagnosed Dec 2007 during annual routine physical
PSA doubled from previous year from 1.5 to 3.2
12 biopsies - 2 positive with 2 marginal
Gleason 3 + 3 = 6
RRP 4 Feb 08
Both nerves spared
Good pathology - no margins - all encapsulated - Gleason 4 + 3 = 7
Catheter out Feb 13 - wore pad for couple of days - pad free Feb 16
PSA every 90 days - ZERO's everytime!
Great wife and family who take very good care of me


livinadream
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 1382
   Posted 6/14/2009 5:34 PM (GMT -7)   
This is a topic that seems to come up quite often and has many a varied answers. I can only speak for myself when I say that I think vitamins have helped me tremendously. My local doctors did not prescribe any vitamin supplements however when I went to The Cancer Treatment Center of America of Zion IL they prescribed a simple regimine that I attribute for getting me back to my normal active self. I do not deal with much depression, I am back to swimming and biking five days per week, I sleep fairly well, and I feel pretty good. Is it a mental thing? Could be but for me and for now I am going to keep taking them. With a gleason 9 stage 4 cancer I am going to do what my hospital says. I do realize that many others feel differently and I by no means am imposing my views on anyone I am merely sharing my experience.
I love everyone here on HW and I am glad we can share our thoughts and opinions.

peace and love
dale
My PSA at diagnosis was 16.3
age 47 (current)
My gleason score from prostate was 4+5=9 and from the lymph nodes (3 positive) was 4+4=8
I had 44 IMRT's
Casodex
Currently on Lupron
I go to The Cancer Treatment Center of America
Married with two kids
latest PSA 5-27-08 0.11
PSA July 24th, 2008 is 0.04
PSA Dec 16th, 2008 is .016
PSA Mar 30th, 2009 is .02
Testosterone keeps rising, the current number is 156, up from 57 in May
T level dropped to 37 Mar 30th, 2009
cancer in 4 of 6 cores
92%
80%
37%
28%
 


IKE-D
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2009
Total Posts : 77
   Posted 6/14/2009 9:21 PM (GMT -7)   
Thanks all..!!!
>Age 41 (At Dx-July 05) -Psa during annual physical went from previous 2.8 to 3
>Biopsy by 'primary' Urol Aug 05 - Gleason 6 low grade. 2nd opinion at  Hopkins confirmed Dx
>Chose Active Surv (AS)- modified diet etc.
>Around Oct 07 Psa moved up to 5.5. I decide to treat at Hopkins. Not sure what kind yet. My doctor decided on re-biopsy first.
>2nd Biopsy Dec 07 at Hopkins was NEGATIVE for Pca! Nothing found in 14 cores!
>'Primary' Urologist baffled. Planned a saturated biopsy (22 cores) to settle issue once and for all. I wasn't going to do 22 cores wide awake!
>July 07 - Did MRI just for comfort. Nothing significant found. No spread. I'd live! Still in AS mode.
>July 08 - Saturated Biopsy performed. Cancer confirmed again (of course, you took 22 cores)! Same Gleason score, same grade, similar numbers but Urol says treat very soon! I am thinking not so fast - numbers are same and you told me it means not aggressive! In any case I agreed with Urol that I will go the way of the Seeds. I research seeds more and I don't like it.
>July 08 - Dec 08 I re-lapse back into AS mode but seriously researching/considering treatment options beside surgery - went on to Mass Gen and Georgetown to explore proton therapy and Cyberknife respectively. Anything but Surgery! Both experts who are about my age were unanimous in strongly declaring they will chose surgery 'if they were me'. In addition, I learn that if either if these radiation methods (and seeds too!)  failed, no backup plan (or will be complicated)! I got the message!
>Jan 09. Went back to see my doc at Hopkins. I decide to put my fate in the hands  of the 'Da Vinci Robot' then!
> May 09. Had surgery. some Pain and discomfort but normal. Pathology all clear. Gleason 6 as before. Feeling very lucky. I gambled (based on my numbers and got 4 more years!) on the slow nature of the cancer and took my time. Very happy I finally did it. Hoping for a great recovery of all 'key' functions. Great wife and family helping out.


geezer99
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 990
   Posted 6/15/2009 5:59 AM (GMT -7)   
Before surgery I took multivitamin, eye vitamin, fish oil and low dose aspirin. Several weeks before surgery I stopped them all because I knew that some of them had a blood thinning effect and I thought that dropping everything was easier than sorting it out.

Now, two months after surgery, I haven’t re-started because two recently published long-term studies show no positive effects and the safety of specific supplements (e.g. selenium) have been called into question. I’ll ask my internist when I have my annual physical in August. (By the way, the situation for women may be different with vitamin D and calcium apparently worthwhile)
Age at diagnosis 66, PSA 5.5
Biopsy 12/08 12 cores, 8 positive
Gleason 3 + 4 = 7
CAT scan 1/09 negative, Bone scan 1/09 negative

Robotic surgery 03/03/09 Catheter Removed 03/08/09
Post surgical pathology report. Lymph nodes negative, Seminal vesicles negative
Surgical margins positive, Capsular penetration extensive Gleason 4 + 3 = 7
At 6 weeks: 1 pad/day, 1 pad/night -- mostly dry at night.


Geebra
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 476
   Posted 6/15/2009 7:39 PM (GMT -7)   
When my wife asked my doc (I was not very enthusiastic about vitamins and other alternative stuff) he said, you can take one multi-vitamins, unless you go to a nutritionist who specializes in treating cancer patients (there are some in every large medical center). But he was not very enthusiastic about vitamins.

He said there were large studies (I could not find references on line) to determine impact of different diets and supplements and the only thing that had some (small) effect was fish.

My thought - if you are otherwise healthy, eat balanced diet, you will probably absorb all the nutrition you need.

Previous 5 biopsies over 4 years negative

PSA going from 3.8 to 28

Father died from PCa @ 78 - normal PSA and DRE

Dx Nov 2007, age 46

PSA 29, Gleason 4+4=8

Decided to participate in clinical trial at Duke

6 rounds of chemo (Taxotere+Avastin)

1/8/2008

33.90

1/11/2008

29.50

1/31/2008

38.20

2/21/2008

32.00

3/13/2008

26.20

4/3/2008

26.60

4/24/2008

20.60

followed by RRP at Duke (Dr. Moul) on 6/16/2008

Pathology

Gleason downgraded 4+3=7

  Duke: T2c N0MX, one positive margin

  Sloan Kettering: T3a N0MX, extraprostatic extension, two positive margins

PSA undetectable for 8 months, then

2/6/2009

0.10

4/26/2009

0.17

5/22/2009

0.20

6 Months ADT starting 6/12/2009

IMRT to start mid-Aug


geezer99
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 990
   Posted 6/16/2009 11:31 AM (GMT -7)   
Here is the website for one of the best long-term studies of the use of vitamins
The Physicians' Health Study

phs.bwh.harvard.edu/

It includes summaries and a list of over 300 publications.

For general interest articles on the topic, Google
Physicians Health Study
Age at diagnosis 66, PSA 5.5
Biopsy 12/08 12 cores, 8 positive
Gleason 3 + 4 = 7
CAT scan 1/09 negative, Bone scan 1/09 negative

Robotic surgery 03/03/09 Catheter Removed 03/08/09
Post surgical pathology report. Lymph nodes negative, Seminal vesicles negative
Surgical margins positive, Capsular penetration extensive Gleason 4 + 3 = 7
At 6 weeks: 1 pad/day, 1 pad/night -- mostly dry at night.

Post Edited (geezer99) : 6/16/2009 12:38:35 PM (GMT-6)


FRUSTRATED13
New Member


Date Joined Jun 2009
Total Posts : 4
   Posted 6/17/2009 3:05 PM (GMT -7)   
As far as vitimins go this is probably the most understudied and critical part of treatment along with diet as far as I'm concerned. It really is ironic that the medical profession doesn't get that food and supplements are drugs and can either help or hinder any treatment options. One of the best books I have found and am using as I prepare for IMRT is NATURAL STRATEGIES FOR CANCER PATIENTS BY RUSSELL L. BLAYLOCK M.D. In this book he puts forth a regimen of supplements when doing radiation treatment. I'll try to keep info flowing as I go through this experience. When confronted with a DR. that says it will hurt your chances I ask Please show me the studies so I can read them and come to my own conclusions. Hope this helps.

IKE-D
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2009
Total Posts : 77
   Posted 6/18/2009 9:20 PM (GMT -7)   
Thanks to you all for your responses!
>Age 41 (At Dx-July 05) -Psa during annual physical went from previous 2.8 to 3
>Biopsy by 'primary' Urol Aug 05 - Gleason 6 low grade. 2nd opinion at  Hopkins confirmed Dx
>Chose Active Surv (AS)- modified diet etc.
>Around Oct 07 Psa moved up to 5.5. I decide to treat at Hopkins. Not sure what kind yet. My doctor decided on re-biopsy first.
>2nd Biopsy Dec 07 at Hopkins was NEGATIVE for Pca! Nothing found in 14 cores!
>'Primary' Urologist baffled. Planned a saturated biopsy (22 cores) to settle issue once and for all. I wasn't going to do 22 cores wide awake!
>July 07 - Did MRI just for comfort. Nothing significant found. No spread. I'd live! Still in AS mode.
>July 08 - Saturated Biopsy performed. Cancer confirmed again (of course, you took 22 cores)! Same Gleason score, same grade, similar numbers but Urol says treat very soon! I am thinking not so fast - numbers are same and you told me it means not aggressive! In any case I agreed with Urol that I will go the way of the Seeds. I research seeds more and I don't like it.
>July 08 - Dec 08 I re-lapse back into AS mode but seriously researching/considering treatment options beside surgery - went on to Mass Gen and Georgetown to explore proton therapy and Cyberknife respectively. Anything but Surgery! Both experts who are about my age were unanimous in strongly declaring they will chose surgery 'if they were me'. In addition, I learn that if either if these radiation methods (and seeds too!)  failed, no backup plan (or will be complicated)! I got the message!
>Jan 09. Went back to see my doc at Hopkins. I decide to put my fate in the hands  of the 'Da Vinci Robot' then!
> May 09. Had surgery. some Pain and discomfort but normal. Pathology all clear. Gleason 6 as before. Feeling very lucky. I gambled (based on my numbers and got 4 more years!) on the slow nature of the cancer and took my time. Very happy I finally did it. Hoping for a great recovery of all 'key' functions. Great wife and family helping out.

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