Son get's PCa before dad and older brother?

New Topic Post Reply Printable Version
[ << Previous Thread | Next Thread >> ]

Tony Crispino
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 8128
   Posted 8/5/2009 7:36 PM (GMT -6)   
Yes, I know all the rules with PCa...There are none.
 
My dad's PSA two years ago was 2.6...last year 3.8...this year 4.2...
 
My dad and I had a "frank talk" today and he believes that he likely does have PCa but no biopsy has been taken to prove it.  He wanted my advice...I told him to get retested tomorrow when he was at the doctors office.  He should add a PAP, Free PSA, and another PSA.  I told him that he has a family member with moderately aggressive prostate cancer and since he is in great health he should know what "active" or "watchful" means in active surveilence or watchful waiting.  He was "assigned" with the duty to march his butt (oh yea, was that nice) into a urologists office and start the process of diagnosis. 
 
But I also told him he is a great candidate to take this slowly.  If he needed intervention that it could mean a number of ways.  My dad is 74 and in great health.  He golfs every day and has longevity on his side of the family so he can believe that 90 is very possible.  Thus he might need some sort of intervention if a biopsy comes back positive. 
 
My dad is not worried about it if he has it.  He knows a lot from my case, and he is ok with it and not in any fear.  So waiting is something he can do comfortably.  I am the worry wart and I want him to be cautious.  He knows about over treatment and, because of my diligence, about opportunity. 
 
I know all the stories here.  Is it possible that his PSA of 4.2 is not prostate cancer?  is it possible that the three consecutive rises in PSA is not cancer?  Is it possible that just because he has an immediate family member with prostate cancer that these are cooincidences?  Of course, Yes too all of these questions.  But we are prepared to deal with it...
 
Tony
 Age 47 (44 when Dx)
Pre-op PSA was 19.8 : Surgery at The City of Hope on February 16, 2007
Geason 4+3=7, Stage pT3b, N0, Mx
Positive Margins (PM), Extra Prostatic Extension (EPE) : Bilateral Seminal vesicle invasion (SVI)
HT began in May, '07 with Lupron and Casodex 50mg (2 Year ADT)
IMRT radiation for 38 Treatments ending August 3, '07
Current PSA (May 11, 2009): <0.1
 
My Journal is at Tony's Blog  
 
STAY POSITIVE!


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25393
   Posted 8/5/2009 8:14 PM (GMT -6)   
Tony, with a well experienced PC son like you, your father is in safe hands. My best to the both of you as things may or may not unwind for your father.

David in SC
Age 57, 56 at DX, PSA 7/7 5.8, 7/8 12.3,9/8 14.5
3rd Biopsy Sept 08: Positive 7 of 7 cores, 40-90%, Gleason 7, 4+3
Open RP surgery 11/14/8, Right nerves spared, 4 days hospital, staples out 11/24/8, 5th cath out on 1/19/9
 Pathlogy Report:Gleason 3+4=7, pT2c, 42 grm, tumor 20%, Contained in capsule, one post. margin, clear lymph nodes 
2009 PSA   2/9 .05, 5/9 .10, 6/9 .11, 8/11 ?
Lastest 7/13 met with Rad. Oncl, considering options, 7/20 Catheter #6 after complete blockage, scarring closed up bladder neck, corrective laser surgery scheduled for 8/18
 
 


Ed C. (Old67)
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2009
Total Posts : 2461
   Posted 8/5/2009 8:28 PM (GMT -6)   
Tony,
I hope that your father's PSA rise is not related to PC.
Age: 67 at Dx on 12/30/08
PSA 9/05 1.15; 8/06 1.45; 12/07 2.41; 8/08 3.9; 11/08 3.5 free PSA 11%
2 cores out of 12 were positive Gleason (4+4) and (4+5)
Negative CT scan and bone scan done on 1/16
Robotic surgery performed 2/9/09 Dr Fagin, Austin TX
Pathology report:
Prostate weighed 57 grams size:5.2 x 5.0 x 4.9 cm
Posterior lateral lesions measuring 1.5 x 1.4 x 1.0 cm showing focal capsular penetration over a distance of 3mm.
Prostatic adenocarciroma accounts for approx. 10-20% of the hemisphere.
Gleason 4+4
both nerve bundles removed,
pT3a Nx Mx, Negative margins
seminal vesicles clean, lymph nodes: not dissected
continent after 4 months
8 weeks PSA test 4/7/09 result <0.1
5 months PSA test 7/9/09 result <0.1


geezer99
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 990
   Posted 8/5/2009 8:53 PM (GMT -6)   
I wouldn't rush to a PCa diagnosis. As men age their prostates get larger and a larger prostate produces more PSA so he could just be going through a growth spurt.
Whatever the case we will all be here rooting for him.
Age at diagnosis 66, PSA 5.5
Biopsy 12/08 12 cores, 8 positive
Gleason 3+4=7
CAT scan, Bone scan 1/09 both negative.

Robotic surgery 03/03/09 Catheter Out 03/08/09
Pathology: Lymph nodes & Seminal vesicles negative
Margins positive, Capsular penetration extensive Gleason 4+3=7
6 weeks: 1 pad/day, 1 pad/night -- mostly dry at night.
10 weeks: no pad at night -- slight leakage day/1 pad.
3 mo. PSA 0.0 - now light pads


Tony Crispino
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 8128
   Posted 8/5/2009 9:12 PM (GMT -6)   
We are prepared for PCa if it is PCa. There really has not been any rush on mine or my dad's part to make the official call as we can't do that.  I do understand that PSA rises with age, and he does too, but up to 4 is the limit with that in consideration. Additionally once a trend is established it does need to be biopsied. That is where we are. But as we all know PCa potential increases with age. And we know the gene is present. In the next month or so, my dad will be doing what we all know about.

We all know the drill. Biopsy, Dx, and if positive ~ grading. I will stay tuned...

David, you are very right. I know this beast and I will let him have what I know that he doesn't already know. But he has been there every step of the way with me. Right after my Dx he started watching his PSA climb from 2.6 to now 4.2. He has been wonderful for me during this ride, and if it is PCa I will be there for him...

Tony


 Age 47 (44 when Dx)
Pre-op PSA was 19.8 : Surgery at The City of Hope on February 16, 2007
Geason 4+3=7, Stage pT3b, N0, Mx
Positive Margins (PM), Extra Prostatic Extension (EPE) : Bilateral Seminal vesicle invasion (SVI)
HT began in May, '07 with Lupron and Casodex 50mg (2 Year ADT)
IMRT radiation for 38 Treatments ending August 3, '07
Current PSA (May 11, 2009): <0.1
 
My Journal is at Tony's Blog  
 
STAY POSITIVE!


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25393
   Posted 8/5/2009 9:16 PM (GMT -6)   
Tony, you said your dad was 74, do you know what his normal PSA range would be age factored for his age? Just curious.

Be kind of nice to teach the father instead of the father teach the son, gives you a great chance to help him from an experienced hand.

David
Age 57, 56 at DX, PSA 7/7 5.8, 7/8 12.3,9/8 14.5
3rd Biopsy Sept 08: Positive 7 of 7 cores, 40-90%, Gleason 7, 4+3
Open RP surgery 11/14/8, Right nerves spared, 4 days hospital, staples out 11/24/8, 5th cath out on 1/19/9
 Pathlogy Report:Gleason 3+4=7, pT2c, 42 grm, tumor 20%, Contained in capsule, one post. margin, clear lymph nodes 
2009 PSA   2/9 .05, 5/9 .10, 6/9 .11, 8/11 ?
Lastest 7/13 met with Rad. Oncl, considering options, 7/20 Catheter #6 after complete blockage, scarring closed up bladder neck, corrective laser surgery scheduled for 8/18
 
 


John T
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 4268
   Posted 8/5/2009 9:39 PM (GMT -6)   
Tony,
Good luck to you and your Dad. I'm certain you will do the right thing with all your knowledge. I really enjoyed meeting your brother and his wife.
JohnT

64 years old.

PSA rising for 10 years to 40, free psa 10-15. Had 5 urologists, 12 biopsies and MRIS all neg. Doctors DX BPH and continue to get biopsies yearly. Positive Biopsy in 10-08, 2 cores of 25, G6 less than 5%. Scheduled Surgery as recommended.

2nd Opinion from Dr Sholtz, an Oncologist said DX wrong, path shows indolant cancer, but psa history indicates large cancer or metastasis. Futher tests and Color Doppler confirmed large transition zone tumor that 13 biopsies and MRIS missed. G 4+3 approx 2.5cm diameter.

Combidex MRI in Holland eliminated lymphnode mets. Casodex and Proscar reduced psa to 0.6 and prostate from 60mm to 32mm. Changed diet, no meat and dairy.

Seed implants on 5-19-09, 3 hours door to door, no pain, minor side affects are frequency and burining urination. Daily activities resumed day after implants.

Scheduled for 5 weeks IMRT in July

JohnT


Sleepless09
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 1267
   Posted 8/5/2009 11:24 PM (GMT -6)   
Best wishes to you and your dad, Tony. I got you both on my prayer list tonight.

Sheldon AKA Sleepless
Age 67 in Apil '09 at news of 4 of 12 cores positive T2B and Gleason 3 + 3 and 5% to 25% PSA 1.5
Re-read of slides in June said Gleason 3 + 4 same four cores 5% to 15%
June 29 daVinci prostatectomy, Dr. Eric Estey, at Royal Alexandra Hospital Edmonton one night stay
Flew home to Winnipeg on July 3 after 5 nights in Ramada Inn  ---  perfect recovery spot!
Catheter out July 9, so far, so good
Final pathology is 3 + 4 Gleason 7, clear margins, clear nodes, T2C, sugeron says report is "excellent"  


Tony Crispino
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 8128
   Posted 8/5/2009 11:31 PM (GMT -6)   
David,
No real such thing as a normal range at any age. PSA does rise as we age, but the cutoff for biopsy is set at 4 officially. I tell people that any consistent rise in PSA needs to be biopsied...Precisely what I told my dad...His DRE is negative...

Tony


 Age 47 (44 when Dx)
Pre-op PSA was 19.8 : Surgery at The City of Hope on February 16, 2007
Geason 4+3=7, Stage pT3b, N0, Mx
Positive Margins (PM), Extra Prostatic Extension (EPE) : Bilateral Seminal vesicle invasion (SVI)
HT began in May, '07 with Lupron and Casodex 50mg (2 Year ADT)
IMRT radiation for 38 Treatments ending August 3, '07
Current PSA (May 11, 2009): <0.1
 
My Journal is at Tony's Blog  
 
STAY POSITIVE!


IdahoSurvivor
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 1015
   Posted 8/5/2009 11:40 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi Tony,

Sorry to hear about your Dad's new concern. It is nice to hear that the DRE is negative and I wish him the best in his pathology report following the biopsy.

He has a great son to help him through all the decisions.

Our prayers go out to you and your Dad, Tony.

All the best,

Barry
Da Vinci LRP July 31, 2007… 54 on surgery day
PSA 4.3 Gleason 3+3=6 T2a Confined to Prostate
6th PSA 06/09 still less than 0.1


maldugs
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 789
   Posted 8/6/2009 3:49 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi Tony, if your Dad is going to become a member of our club, I know he will be fortunate to have you by his side. Just looking at my Path report, it states:- Age Related Reference Intervals for the Bayer Centaur ePSA Method

40-49 years < 2.5ug/L
50-59 years < 3.5 ug/L
60-69 years < 4.5 ug/L
70-79 years < 6.5 ug/L

as he is 4.2 it could be enlarged prostate maybe?

Regards Mal.
age 67 PSA 5.8 DRE slightly firm Rt
Biopsy 2nd July 07 5 out of 12 positive
Gleason 3+4=7 right side tumour adenocarcinoma stage T2a
RP on 30th July,

Post op Pathology, tumour stage T3a 4+3=7, microcsopic evidence of capsular penetration, seminal vessels, bladder neck,are free of tumour, lymph nodes clear, no evidence of metastatic malignancy, tumour does not extend to the apical margins.

Post op PSA 0.5 26th Sept.
PSA 23rd Oct.0.5 seeing Radiation Onocologist 31st Oct.
Started radiation treatment on 5th Dec, to continue until 24 Jan. 08.
Finished treatment, next PSA on 30th April.
PSA 30th April 0.4
PSA 30th July 0.5
PSA 27th Oct 0.4 (I am now 68)
PSA 11th March 09 0.5
PSA 3rd Augiust 09 0.6


oldflyingfarmer
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2009
Total Posts : 32
   Posted 8/6/2009 4:41 AM (GMT -6)   
Tony,
Sorry to hear about your Dad. My father and Uncle have both experienced the ugly cancer word ahead of me. However, there's was not aggressive and mine was. My father (now 84) has been on hormone injections for years. He is still very active. My uncle had radiation (external) and after a recurrence had to get hormone injections. I keep on my brother and son to keep a careful watch on theirs.
Good luck to your father, maybe it will just be enlarged. I am puling for him and praying for him with all the rest.
Age 55
Diabetic on insulin pump
PSA started rising in 2007
2 negative biopsiesthru 2008
2009 PSA 31, TURP found Gleason 9 cancer
Started holistic approach while waiting for surgery
RRP on May 27, 2009
Cath out 2 weeks after surgery
Very little drip, some pain
Had my 6 week post op doctor visit. PSA was <.05 so I am pleased.
Still some ED problems but seeing improvement. May try VED. Started on daily pills.


Steve n Dallas
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2008
Total Posts : 4849
   Posted 8/6/2009 6:01 AM (GMT -6)   
Son get's PCa before dad and older brother -> That would be me too.
 
Pops can't pee very well if he had too...He's a self proclaimed expect on PCa and gets tested all the time. I think he's in the single digit catagory and has had one or two clean biopsies.
 
I think I'll buzz old bro today and see whens the last time he got tested.
Age 54   - 5'11"   205lbs
Overall Heath Condition - Good
PSA - July 2007 & Jan 2008 -> 1.3
Biopsy - 03/04/08 -> Gleason 6 
06/25/08 - Da Vinci robotic laparoscopy
05/14/09  - 4th Quarter PSA -> less then .01
Surgeon - Keith A. Waguespack, M.D.


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25393
   Posted 8/6/2009 8:53 AM (GMT -6)   
Tony,

The chart that Mal posted is along the lins of what I am thinking, i had remembered reading that before my own dx.

But, if I were you with PC, and he was my dad, I would want him to have a biopsy. The negative DRE is good news, and if his general health is still good for his age, then even he has options no matter what.

David
Age 57, 56 at DX, PSA 7/7 5.8, 7/8 12.3,9/8 14.5
3rd Biopsy Sept 08: Positive 7 of 7 cores, 40-90%, Gleason 7, 4+3
Open RP surgery 11/14/8, Right nerves spared, 4 days hospital, staples out 11/24/8, 5th cath out on 1/19/9
 Pathlogy Report:Gleason 3+4=7, pT2c, 42 grm, tumor 20%, Contained in capsule, one post. margin, clear lymph nodes 
2009 PSA   2/9 .05, 5/9 .10, 6/9 .11, 8/11 ?
Lastest 7/13 met with Rad. Oncl, considering options, 7/20 Catheter #6 after complete blockage, scarring closed up bladder neck, corrective laser surgery scheduled for 8/18
 
 


Tony Crispino
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 8128
   Posted 8/6/2009 8:57 AM (GMT -6)   
Mal,
Just a note...I have seen those numbers posted before, but me and my friends in the advocacy groups as well as many doctors have taken exception to them. As I said to David, there is no normal range at any age. And trend is far more valuable than range by age. Everyone is their own case. Part of the concern is the next 70 year old coming along and seeing those stats and having a 6.2 PSA and saying "ahhh, I'm fine. Here look at this..." while they are up from a 2 the previous year. Three years ago my dad's PSA was under 2. In three years he has trended to 4.2. This trend is far more important than the ranges specified in that table. My dad and I are hopeful that this isn't prostate cancer but the trend is telling him to get a biopsy...

Thank you to all for your very kind remarks. I will pass them along to my father.

Tony


 Age 47 (44 when Dx)
Pre-op PSA was 19.8 : Surgery at The City of Hope on February 16, 2007
Geason 4+3=7, Stage pT3b, N0, Mx
Positive Margins (PM), Extra Prostatic Extension (EPE) : Bilateral Seminal vesicle invasion (SVI)
HT began in May, '07 with Lupron and Casodex 50mg (2 Year ADT)
IMRT radiation for 38 Treatments ending August 3, '07
Current PSA (May 11, 2009): <0.1
 
My Journal is at Tony's Blog  
 
STAY POSITIVE!

Post Edited (TC-LasVegas) : 8/6/2009 8:00:01 AM (GMT-6)


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25393
   Posted 8/6/2009 9:04 AM (GMT -6)   
Tony, I am on your side of thinking 100% here, I am the victim of rapid PSA velocity, I think you should move forward with your dad without delay.
Age 57, 56 at DX, PSA 7/7 5.8, 7/8 12.3,9/8 14.5
3rd Biopsy Sept 08: Positive 7 of 7 cores, 40-90%, Gleason 7, 4+3
Open RP surgery 11/14/8, Right nerves spared, 4 days hospital, staples out 11/24/8, 5th cath out on 1/19/9
 Pathlogy Report:Gleason 3+4=7, pT2c, 42 grm, tumor 20%, Contained in capsule, one post. margin, clear lymph nodes 
2009 PSA   2/9 .05, 5/9 .10, 6/9 .11, 8/11 ?
Lastest 7/13 met with Rad. Oncl, considering options, 7/20 Catheter #6 after complete blockage, scarring closed up bladder neck, corrective laser surgery scheduled for 8/18
 
 


Doting Daughter
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 1064
   Posted 8/6/2009 10:35 AM (GMT -6)   
Your dad couldn't have a better person to go through this process with. Cancer or not, he is lucky to have you! We will be thinking of you both and keeping you close in thoughts and prayers!
Father's Age DX 62 (now 64)
Original Gleason 3+4=7, Post-Op Gleason- 4+3=7,
DaVinci Surgery Aug 31, 2007
Focally Positive Right Margin, One positive node. T3a N1 M0.
Bone Scan/CT Negative (Sept. 10, 2007)
Oct. 17 PSA 0.07
Nov. 13 PSA 0.05
Casodex adm. Nov 07, Lupron beg. Dec 03, 2007 2 yrs
Radiation March 03-April 22, 2008- 8 weeks 5x a week
July 2, 08 PSA <.02
Oct. 10, 08 PSA <.02
Praying for a cured dad.

Co-Moderator Prostate Cancer Forum


engineer55
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 121
   Posted 8/6/2009 11:20 AM (GMT -6)   
My PSA was up to over 7 and kept going up,  I did have cancer but not much, the big issue was a very large prostate.   I would not assume anything, I had people tell me over 5 and you might as well be dead.
 
At that age I would AS it.
Dx'ed 5/08 one core 2%  out of 12  3+3 gleason
DREs all negative
PSA was in the 3-4 range then jumped to 7
I have the enlarged prostate, on the order of 100cc.  After taking Avodart for 3 months  my
PSA was cut in half.
I did Active S for a year but concluded that I didn't want a life
of biopsies and Uro meetings.
DaVinci on 6/24/09  UCI Med Center  Dr Ahlering, long surgery based on size and location
Final was 5% one side all clear, but had a huge 90 grm prostate
Now we work on pee control, ok at night but sitting is a big problem.


JoeyG
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 162
   Posted 8/7/2009 10:50 AM (GMT -6)   
I agree that the number by itself tells little, giving many men false comfort if their psa is below that magical "4."  A baseline for both psa level and size of the prostate needs to be established, preferably when one is in his 40's and from that psa velocity and prostate size can be evaluated going forward.
Age -57; Diagnosed 10/05 PSA 13.4 GS 9 Organ confined (T2B)
Cryoablation 4/06 Allegheny Hosp-Dr Ralph Miller (Cohen/Miller)
Post Cryo Nadir 8/06 0.2
Rising steadily to 0.7 4/09 :-(
Steady at 0.7 (7/09) (Pomegranate???)
Looking to take next steps soon
Hoping to qualify for salvage cryo or radiation

New Topic Post Reply Printable Version
Forum Information
Currently it is Friday, September 21, 2018 6:44 AM (GMT -6)
There are a total of 3,005,370 posts in 329,222 threads.
View Active Threads


Who's Online
This forum has 161773 registered members. Please welcome our newest member, Audreyli.
258 Guest(s), 3 Registered Member(s) are currently online.  Details
SantaZia, Sarge 83, commandersorebod