Lupron Works!!!

New Topic Post Reply Printable Version
[ << Previous Thread | Next Thread >> ]

Hopeful in MD
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 66
   Posted 8/10/2009 9:03 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi All - just had to post that my PSA has dropped from 3.9 in April to 0.5 in Aug.  It goes without saying that I am ecstatic that the Lupron is working.  Next shot Aug 21.  My wish to you is that you will also experience the joy of having your PSA drop to safe/undetectable levels.  I keep all of you in my prayers.  In fact, I think I will call my church and have all those coping with PCa put on its prayer list.  I hope that many of you will feel the power of those prayers.
 
Gene in Md
Hopeful in MD
Age 70.
Dx Dec 07. PSA 8.4. DRE confirmed tumor. Three of six biopsies positive. Gleason: 6 (3+3).
Seed implants Iodine 125 Jan 08.
PSA's 3.9, 1.7 after implants. 
Rising PSA's: 2.3, 3.4, 3.9, indicating  seed therapy not working. 
April 09 began hormone injection therapy with Lupron 30 MG ea. 4 mos.  Side effects - hot flashes, about 1 an hour, initial severe fatigue. Gone as of mid-July.
Jun 09 - Oncologist DRE negative for nodules - hooray!!!
Aug 09 - PSA 0.5!!!  Lupron is working! 
  
Began seeing psychologist Jun 09 for anxiety and depression.  Anxiety from serious IBS (irritable bowel) probs.  Doctor using hypno-therapy for the IBS - talk therapy for anxiety.   Recommend anyone having difficulty coping with PC or other chronic conditions etc. get professional help. 


Tony Crispino
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 8128
   Posted 8/10/2009 9:15 AM (GMT -6)   
Great post Gene,
Your advice in your signature about dealing with the emotional side of things is very strong and very real, especially for us guys on HT. Congrats on the results with the HT and stay positive. That is my mantra and I live by it...

Tony
 Age 47 (44 when Dx)
Pre-op PSA was 19.8 : Surgery at The City of Hope on February 16, 2007
Geason 4+3=7, Stage pT3b, N0, Mx
Positive Margins (PM), Extra Prostatic Extension (EPE) : Bilateral Seminal vesicle invasion (SVI)
HT began in May, '07 with Lupron and Casodex 50mg (2 Year ADT)
IMRT radiation for 38 Treatments ending August 3, '07
Current PSA (May 11, 2009): <0.1
 
My Journal is at Tony's Blog  
 
STAY POSITIVE!


Hopeful in MD
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 66
   Posted 8/10/2009 9:35 AM (GMT -6)   

Hi Tony,

Thanks for the nice post.  Staying positive is about 90% of the battle.  Your signature shows that you are doing very well.  Will keep my fingers crossed (as much as possible turn )

Gene


Hopeful in MD
Age 70.
Dx Dec 07. PSA 8.4. DRE confirmed tumor. Three of six biopsies positive. Gleason: 6 (3+3).
Seed implants Iodine 125 Jan 08.
PSA's 3.9, 1.7 after implants. 
Rising PSA's: 2.3, 3.4, 3.9, indicating  seed therapy not working. 
April 09 began hormone injection therapy with Lupron 30 MG ea. 4 mos.  Side effects - hot flashes, about 1 an hour, initial severe fatigue. Gone as of mid-July.
Jun 09 - Oncologist DRE negative for nodules - hooray!!!
Aug 09 - PSA 0.5!!!  Lupron is working! 
  
Began seeing psychologist Jun 09 for anxiety and depression.  Anxiety from serious IBS (irritable bowel) probs.  Doctor using hypno-therapy for the IBS - talk therapy for anxiety.   Recommend anyone having difficulty coping with PC or other chronic conditions etc. get professional help. 


John T
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 4229
   Posted 8/10/2009 10:43 AM (GMT -6)   
Gene,
Great news. If PSA drops to below .5 it means that your PC is made up of primarily androgen dependent PC cells and can be kept in check for a long time.
JohnT

64 years old.

PSA rising for 10 years to 40, free psa 10-15. Had 5 urologists, 12 biopsies and MRIS all neg. Doctors DX BPH and continue to get biopsies yearly. Positive Biopsy in 10-08, 2 cores of 25, G6 less than 5%. Scheduled Surgery as recommended.

2nd Opinion from Dr Sholtz, an Oncologist said DX wrong, path shows indolant cancer, but psa history indicates large cancer or metastasis. Futher tests and Color Doppler confirmed large transition zone tumor that 13 biopsies and MRIS missed. G 4+3 approx 2.5cm diameter.

Combidex MRI in Holland eliminated lymphnode mets. Casodex and Proscar reduced psa to 0.6 and prostate from 60mm to 32mm. Changed diet, no meat and dairy.

Seed implants on 5-19-09, 3 hours door to door, no pain, minor side affects are frequency and burining urination. Daily activities resumed day after implants.

Scheduled for 5 weeks IMRT in July

JohnT


Hopeful in MD
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 66
   Posted 8/10/2009 7:16 PM (GMT -6)   
John,
 
Thank you for the info about the PSA level 0.5 indicating that the cancer is androgen-dependent.  That news is a great relief and I was totally unaware of that.  I'm looking forward to a long, but pleasant relationship with my PCa.
 
BTW, I haven't read about any local support groups for those of you in this forum.  I just returned from a support group session at the Baltimore Washington Medical Center in Glen Burnie, Md.  It is hosted by urologist Dr. Ed Zagula, a prostate cancer survivor himself.  He is super knowledgeable and answers questions from those attending - about 30 men and women this time.  I think I'll start a new thread on the subject of support groups. 
 
In the meantime, be well or as well as you can.
 
Gene in Md
 
 
Hopeful in MD
Age 70.
Dx Dec 07. PSA 8.4. DRE confirmed tumor. Three of six biopsies positive. Gleason: 6 (3+3).
Seed implants Iodine 125 Jan 08.
PSA's 3.9, 1.7 after implants. 
Rising PSA's: 2.3, 3.4, 3.9, indicating  seed therapy not working. 
April 09 began hormone injection therapy with Lupron 30 MG ea. 4 mos.  Side effects - hot flashes, about 1 an hour, initial severe fatigue. Gone as of mid-July.
Jun 09 - Oncologist DRE negative for nodules - hooray!!!
Aug 09 - PSA 0.5!!!  Lupron is working! 
  
Began seeing psychologist Jun 09 for anxiety and depression.  Anxiety from serious IBS (irritable bowel) probs.  Doctor using hypno-therapy for the IBS - talk therapy for anxiety.   Recommend anyone having difficulty coping with PC or other chronic conditions etc. get professional help. 


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 8/10/2009 7:55 PM (GMT -6)   
Gene, that is great news to hear this evening, hope it stays that for years for you. Great report.

David in SC
Age 57, 56 at DX, PSA 7/7 5.8, 7/8 12.3,9/8 14.5
3rd Biopsy Sept 08: Positive 7 of 7 cores, 40-90%, Gleason 7, 4+3
Open RP surgery 11/14/8, Right nerves spared, 4 days hospital, staples out 11/24/8, 5th cath out on 1/19/9
 Pathlogy Report:Gleason 3+4=7, pT2c, 42 grm, tumor 20%, Contained in capsule, one post. margin, clear lymph nodes 
2009 PSA   2/9 .05, 5/9 .10, 6/9 .11, 8/11 ?
Lastest 7/13 met with Rad. Oncl, considering options, 7/20 Catheter #6 after complete blockage, scarring closed up bladder neck, corrective laser surgery scheduled for 8/18
 
 


James C.
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4462
   Posted 8/10/2009 7:57 PM (GMT -6)   
That's really great news. I hope you keep it low and you can join the decades survival category..
James C. Age 62
Co-Moderator- Prostate Cancer Forum
4/07 PSA 7.6, referred to Urologist, recheck 6.7
7/07 Biopsy: 3 of 16 PCa, 5% involved, left lobe, GS 3/3=6
9/07 Nerve sparing open RRP 110gms.- Path Report: GS 3+3=6 Stg. pT2c, 110gms, margins clear
22 mts: ED- 50 mg Viagra 3X week, pump daily,Trimix 30/1/20-.10ml 2X week continues
PSA's: .04 each test since surgery


goodlife
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 2691
   Posted 8/10/2009 9:12 PM (GMT -6)   
Congrats ! Great to hear success stories.

As for support groups, pretty hard to beat the HW support group. Don't have to get dressed up, and can lay around house on my laptop.

Plus, people are from all over the country and world. What a neat place to be !
Age 58, PSA 4.47 Biopsy - 2/12 cores , Gleason 4 + 5 = 9
Da Vinci, Cleveland Clinic  4/14/09   Nerves spared
0/23 lymph nodes involved  pT3a NO MX
Catheter and 2 stints in ureters for 2 weeks due to anatomical issues with location of ureters with respect to bladder neck.  Try 3 tubes where no tubes are supposed to be for 2 weeks !
Neg Margins, bladder neck negative
Living the Good Life, cancer free  6 week PSA  <.03
3 month PSA <.01 (different lab)


Hopeful in MD
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 66
   Posted 8/11/2009 8:45 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi David,

I've been following your story and will be thinking of you on the 18th. Maybe throw in a few prayers - won't hurt.

Thanks to you others who posted positive comments. I'll take all that I can get.

Gene
Hopeful in MD
Age 70.
Dx Dec 07. PSA 8.4. DRE confirmed tumor. Three of six biopsies positive. Gleason: 6 (3+3).
Seed implants Iodine 125 Jan 08.
PSA's 3.9, 1.7 after implants. 
Rising PSA's: 2.3, 3.4, 3.9, indicating  seed therapy not working. 
April 09 began hormone injection therapy with Lupron 30 MG ea. 4 mos.  Side effects - hot flashes, about 1 an hour, initial severe fatigue. Gone as of mid-July.
Jun 09 - Oncologist DRE negative for nodules - hooray!!!
Aug 09 - PSA 0.5!!!  Lupron is working! 
  
Began seeing psychologist Jun 09 for anxiety and depression.  Anxiety from serious IBS (irritable bowel) probs.  Doctor using hypno-therapy for the IBS - talk therapy for anxiety.   Recommend anyone having difficulty coping with PC or other chronic conditions etc. get professional help. 


Hopeful in MD
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 66
   Posted 8/12/2009 7:04 PM (GMT -6)   
Goodlife,
 
Amen to that.  I learn something new and important every time I visit HW.  Thank you to all of you who are so knowledgeable and, more importantly, who take the time to post to this forum.
 
Gene
Hopeful in MD
Age 70.
Dx Dec 07. PSA 8.4. DRE confirmed tumor. Three of six biopsies positive. Gleason: 6 (3+3).
Seed implants Iodine 125 Jan 08.
PSA's 3.9, 1.7 after implants. 
Rising PSA's: 2.3, 3.4, 3.9, indicating  seed therapy not working. 
April 09 began hormone injection therapy with Lupron 30 MG ea. 4 mos.  Side effects - hot flashes, about 1 an hour, initial severe fatigue. Gone as of mid-July.
Jun 09 - Oncologist DRE negative for nodules - hooray!!!
Aug 09 - PSA 0.5!!!  Lupron is working! 
  
Began seeing psychologist Jun 09 for anxiety and depression.  Anxiety from serious IBS (irritable bowel) probs.  Doctor using hypno-therapy for the IBS - talk therapy for anxiety.   Recommend anyone having difficulty coping with PC or other chronic conditions etc. get professional help. 


tommy76
New Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 8
   Posted 8/15/2009 2:29 PM (GMT -6)   
 
Greetings,
    Iam a new menber and want to share my story.... Iam 71...
 
 At 52, in '92, had a DX of Pc with a PSA of 9.0.   caught by accident after a full physical the month before in which i did not take a PSA.  A new doc insisted i take a PSA...and thats how i discovered it.  Had a RP , recovered no problem, went back to work in construction in 2 weeks  ....wore pads for a few months till i dried up.
 
   Went 12 years with a zero PSA  till 04 ......in 04 it went to 2.0,  05 to 4.0,  06  to  6.0  , 07 to 08, and 08 to 17.0 
 
  Had  bio on a small tumor  where my prostrate was,  was cancer.  Had bone scan and CT , showed it had gone to pelvic bone.......no pain or other problems.
    Have been on Lupron 12 months with zometa. no pain  but many harsh side effects. my Doc says iam doing so good that we will consider stopping treatments in a month....my PSA is now
0.05.........
  Side effects of both treatments are super hot flashes somtimes 30 min. apart, sore eyeballs,
  super fatigue, 20+ lb weight gain, very short of breath.
  iam looking forward to stopping this treatment and being rid of these side effects. iam very pleased with my progress ..............
       iam astounded with the cost of these drugs...when i get both treatments at once it approaches $7,000.00...wow.
     
       tommy76

Squirm
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2008
Total Posts : 744
   Posted 8/15/2009 2:51 PM (GMT -6)   
And Provenge should be out on the market soon too.

tommy76
New Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 8
   Posted 8/15/2009 2:58 PM (GMT -6)   
 
  please tell me what you know about this new drug..   my doc cant tell me much
   tommy76

tommy76
New Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 8
   Posted 8/15/2009 3:55 PM (GMT -6)   

 MR. State.....

     never heard of casodex...what is it......

   tommy76


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 8/15/2009 4:26 PM (GMT -6)   
been researching lupron, if it is a synthetic drug, why in the world does it cost 5,000 a month or more for a shot? I was blown away when I read that. also, same subject, from what i read, and perhaps i missed the point, its not curing anything with the pc, seems like the lowering of the psa is temporary and is being used more to buy time (no disrespect to any of my advanced case brothers). ever since the new rad. oncl talked to me about lupron trying to understand it more.

the side effects i read so horrific.

david in sc
Age 57, 56 at DX, PSA 7/7 5.8, 7/8 12.3,9/8 14.5
3rd Biopsy Sept 08: Positive 7 of 7 cores, 40-90%, Gleason 7, 4+3
Open RP surgery 11/14/8, Right nerves spared, 4 days hospital, staples out 11/24/8, 5th cath out on 1/19/9
 Pathlogy Report:Gleason 3+4=7, pT2c, 42 grm, tumor 20%, Contained in capsule, one post. margin, clear lymph nodes 
2009 PSA   2/9 .05, 5/9 .10, 6/9 .11, 8/9 .16
Lastest 7/13 met with Rad. Oncl, considering options, 7/20 Catheter #6 after complete blockage, scarring closed up bladder neck, corrective laser surgery scheduled for 8/18,
meeting with Rad. Oncl on 8/14 about lastest PSA
 
 


tommy76
New Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 8
   Posted 8/15/2009 4:55 PM (GMT -6)   
 
 
  iam also leary of what i hear from docs as i have 100% insurance which i believe puts me at risk...lol....boy do  these docs smile as i walk in......so i have to be informed.
 
   i wonder how many of us are treated prematurely , our knowledge is our power......ive read that a senior over 60 has a tolerance psa of up to  10...........so why are we being treated aggressively at 3.9........
    i dont worry about it tho......i play with  hot rods and drink whiskey every day.......love my lady and plan for the future.... medically , i will listen to my doc  and eventually make up my mind with his advice.
 
   i have no hesitation to tell a doc , nurse, or any one else where to get off.....its our duty...
 
 my last bio was a disaster ....male nurse stuck that thing in me......walked over to the counter and used the phone.....iam waiting, waiting, so i asked is this over....he said , oh no the doc is going to be late and came over and took it out.....then the doc comes in and the thing goes in all over again  ......god i was mad....twice ..hurt!...i got off that table and told that doc ,who didnt know about the previous 'stick', exactly what  i thought  in sailor language,[which iam].......i changed docs..................just cause their in the medical field does not make them immune .......
 
 tommy76
 
 
    

wlkin
New Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 7
   Posted 8/17/2009 4:14 AM (GMT -6)   
Age 67. Was having prostate problems. PSA's had risen to 14, I was told. Was scheduled for robotic surgery, but had chest pain the night before. Canceled surgery and started hormone therapy. PSA was about 6 then. Bio showed two incidents of cancer. Bone scan was ok. Dr. believe the cancer was caught early. 30 days after first shot and Casodex, PSA was 0.5 or there abouts. Receive a 90 day injection with pills to go along with the shot. Side effects, hot flashes, extremely tired, headaches, probably a few other that I can think of at the moment. At times, I feel like there is something else wrong because of the side effects. Are these normal side effects?

wlkin

tommy76
New Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 8
   Posted 8/17/2009 11:21 AM (GMT -6)   
  Yes, those side effect are normal for lupron, i dont even know what casodex is ,or what its for???  seems like you have to feel bad to feel good......
 
       tommy76

tommy76
New Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 8
   Posted 8/17/2009 3:08 PM (GMT -6)   

 

thanks......your treatment results are remarkable.....i have become increasingly aware that so called pros in a lot of professions  are lacking including the med field.  i have even had some issues in the infusion center with  nurses.......  i  go to the cancer treatment centers of S Texas......have been for 12 months.......have never heard of casodex ......may be able to use after lupron no longer works.....iam always watching out for me and mine healthwise.   and...iam wondering why it took 12 months on lupron to drop my PSA  from 17 to .05.   and i was told that if i get off lupron  for a while and my PSA comes back ,lupron may not work against it????? ....he never mentioned casodex .......has anyone here had this happen to them?   

what is the rumors on the new PC drug............my doc doesnt know much. 

thanks

tommy76 


wlkin
New Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 7
   Posted 8/17/2009 3:49 PM (GMT -6)   
I was prescribed Casodex, 1 pill 3 times a day. My PSA dropped with that. Then I started getting a shot in the stomach and taking Casodex, 1 pill a day. Thought the stomach shot would be painful, but it was an autoinjector. The first shot was barely noticeable and the second shot was a little uncomfortable. Thanks for the info. The hot flashes I can deal with, but the "run down and run over" feeling numerous times a day is a little discomforting. Having said that, I realize it could be a lot worst.

wlkin

Hopeful in MD
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 66
   Posted 8/17/2009 7:08 PM (GMT -6)   

Hi Wlkin,

My guess is that the injection was Zoladex, although I haven't had that med (yet).  I am on Lupron and my PSA has gone from 3.9 to 0.5 in 4 months.  Next shot Aug. 21.  I am not on anything other than Lupron.  However, for the first two months or so after my first shot, Apr. 21, 2009, I was extremely tired / fatigued and wanted to lay around and sleep.  Fortunately, that feeling has been long gone.  I am now walking on a treadmill at 3 mph (faster than you think) for 30 min each day.  In addition, I am lifting 5 lb bar bells using 5 different moves.  Those two things alone give me more energy and block any tiredness / depression that I might otherwise have. 

I am impressed that your PSA is 0.05!! Not shabby in my book.  I wonder if the Casodex is combining with the injection to cause your side effects.  The hot flashes are a bother for sure.  I change my clothes 2 to 3 times a day.  I'm thinking of asking my uro on Aug. 21 for something to mitigate them.  At the same time, I don't want to acquire a host of new symptoms, so I'll probably follow his advice.

Good luck with your treatment.  Hopefully, you will find the side effects less bothersome over time.

Gene in Md


Hopeful in MD
Age 70.
Dx Dec 07. PSA 8.4. DRE confirmed tumor. Three of six biopsies positive. Gleason: 6 (3+3).
Seed implants Iodine 125 Jan 08.
PSA's 3.9, 1.7 after implants. 
Rising PSA's: 2.3, 3.4, 3.9, indicating  seed therapy not working. 
April 09 began hormone injection therapy with Lupron 30 MG ea. 4 mos.  Side effects - hot flashes, about 1 an hour, initial severe fatigue. Gone as of mid-July.
Jun 09 - Oncologist DRE negative for nodules - hooray!!!
Aug 09 - PSA 0.5!!!  Lupron is working! 
  
Began seeing psychologist Jun 09 for anxiety and depression.  Anxiety from serious IBS (irritable bowel) probs.  Doctor using hypno-therapy for the IBS - talk therapy for anxiety.   Recommend anyone having difficulty coping with PC or other chronic conditions etc. get professional help. 


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 8/17/2009 9:16 PM (GMT -6)   
Gene, I have recently started working partime (accounting and tax work) for a hypnotherapist in my area. He treats people for the very things you described. Six months ago, I would have thought it was all phooey, but the more I see and hear, it looks like what he does really does help people. Good luck to you.

David in SC
Age 57, 56 at DX, PSA 7/7 5.8, 7/8 12.3,9/8 14.5
3rd Biopsy Sept 08: Positive 7 of 7 cores, 40-90%, Gleason 7, 4+3
Open RP surgery 11/14/8, Right nerves spared, 4 days hospital, staples out 11/24/8, 5th cath out on 1/19/9
 Pathlogy Report:Gleason 3+4=7, pT2c, 42 grm, tumor 20%, Contained in capsule, one post. margin, clear lymph nodes 
2009 PSA   2/9 .05, 5/9 .10, 6/9 .11, 8/9 .16
Lastest 7/13 met with Rad. Oncl, considering options, 7/20 Catheter #6 after complete blockage, scarring closed up bladder neck, corrective laser surgery scheduled for 8/18,
meeting with Rad. Oncl on 8/14 about lastest PSA
 
 


smilingoldcoot
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2008
Total Posts : 338
   Posted 8/27/2009 12:05 AM (GMT -6)   

Casodex is an anti-androgen. It works in thebody by preventing the actions of androgens (male hormones).

Casodex is used together with another hormone to treat PCa.

It is also considered a Chemo drug.

 

I am not a doc only someone with PCA. Below is what I understand:

1.  If you have PCa and do not have surgery or radiation and even sometimes then, you still have PCa.

2.  Lupron and Casodex only starves the cancer you have or might have and keeps it from growing (if it is working)

3.  This treatment will artificially  keep your PSA low. My Doctor at UFPTI told me that we would not know difinitively if the radiation had killed the PCa until about a year after I stopped my HRT (2 years). I started in May 2008 before radiation (IMRT and PROTON) so I have another 8 months before I should come on HRT and then we will see.

I can't really say much about side affects except some infrequent hot flashes.

 

Rich


Biopsy 1998 = Neg Bio 2000 = Neg with PIN Bio 1/10/08 Gleason 10, Stage T1C 8 of 12 samples positive all < Than 5%
Bone Scan, CTs and MRI Negative early 2008
March 2008 MD Anderson - No Surgery or Proton = No Action
Feb & Mar PET (Possilbe Lymph Node Involvement  & Prostacint Scan Negative
March 2008 U of Florida Proton Therapty Lupron & Casodek May 08 for 2 years
Completed 25 IMRT and 17 PBRT U of Florida Proton Therapy Institute 7/24/08
Latest CT June 08) showed no trace of tumor in lymph node area
7/24/2008 PSA .21, free PSA .08, Percent free PSA 38.1, testosterone 14.6
8/1/2008 2nd Lupon Shot -- 10/27/2008 PSA <.01 -- 12/9/2008 3rd Lupon Shot
12/11/08 MRI Suspicious for Metastic disease L5 & S1 -- Bone Scan 12/19/08 Indicates No Bone Mets Spinal Stenosis and Neropathy in my legs
2/06/09 PSA = < .01  -- 4/09/2009  PSA <.01 --4th Lupron shot 7/02/2009 PSA <.01 Lupron
Our Journey is on WWW.GLEASONSCORE10.COM

New Topic Post Reply Printable Version
Forum Information
Currently it is Sunday, June 24, 2018 2:46 PM (GMT -6)
There are a total of 2,974,767 posts in 326,206 threads.
View Active Threads


Who's Online
This forum has 161300 registered members. Please welcome our newest member, sunvsmoon.
405 Guest(s), 4 Registered Member(s) are currently online.  Details
The Dude Abides, Girlie, johncl, Subdenis