How about a new subject to stimulate the brains today.

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Sonny3
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 2447
   Posted 9/8/2009 8:15 AM (GMT -6)   
My surgery is scheduled for the 17th and I glean every bit of information and experience I can from all of your posts in preparation.

So here is the new subject: Supra-Pubic Catheter

My Dr. uses the Foley for the day of surgery and the one night hospital stay only. The following day before being released it is replaced with a Supra-Pubic which is removed 1 week from the surgery date. They made this change about four years ago after hundreds of follow-ups with patients who described the Foley as one of the worst parts of the surgery process.

From the posts I have seen here and other forums, the Foley seems to be a constant source of irritation and aggravation (pun intended).

Has anyone personally experienced the Supra-Pubic? I have researched it and found discussions from others that are using it for situations where they must wear one for extended (months-years) periods and they all extol it's virtues. They talk about wearing it under their jeans and suits and so on, with no issues.

If it avoids the aggravation so well I just can't figure why more surgeons aren't using it for Prostate Surgery.

Chime in and let's discuss it. Maybe for a few minutes we can forget about PC and think about something else.

Sonny
60 years old
PSA November 2007 3.0
PSA May 2009 6.4
Diagnosis confirmed July 9, 2009
12 Needle Biopsy = 9 clear , 3 postive
<5%, 90%, 40%
Gleason Score (3+4) 7 in all positive cores
CT Organ Scan - negative
Nuclear Bone Scan - Negative

Surgery set for September 17th, 2009 with Dr. Mani Menon at the Henry Ford Medical Center in Detroit.


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 9/8/2009 8:24 AM (GMT -6)   
Sonny, I agree with your thinking. Since last November, spent over 100 days on a total of 7 different foley catheters. All of them hurt, all of them sucked, that and the endless bladder spasms they generate.

My wife is a nurse with the long termed elderly, and they use lots of the suprapubic catheters with great results. Unlike what I have read, long term use supposedly puts you at risk for bladder cancer, but she said she never heard of anyone where that happened.

I wish more doctors would consider this type of catheter after prostate surgery, especially if it is going to be in there for more than a week or so. My original one was in for 30 days, because of surgical complications.

Yes, there are people that wear the suprapubics for years without any issues, and they are easier to install both male and female versions, and can be easily replaced if needed.

Prior to your post on the subject, I had my mind made up, that if I have to be on another in the future due to a lengthy blockage, I will insist on having one.

Good subject. For any other new men awaiting surgery or contemplating a surgical primary treatment for their PC, ask your uro/surgeon about this. Shouldnt make them any difference.

David in SC
Age: 57, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 7/08 12.3, 9/08 14.5, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 - 7/7 Positive, 40-90% Cancer, Gleason 4+3
Open RP: 11/08, Rht nerves saved, 4 days in hospt, on catheters for 63 days, 5th one out 1/09
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20%, Contained in capsule, 1 pos margin
2009 PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Latest: 7/09 met 2 rad. oncl, 7/09 cath #6 - blockage, 8/09 2nd corr surgery, 8/9 cath #7 - out after 38 days


Mavica
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2008
Total Posts : 407
   Posted 9/8/2009 10:38 AM (GMT -6)   
From reading the comments of patients here, and from other reading I've done - I don't understand why someone would choose this type of catheter for a short-term usage. I also think that for an overwhelming majority of patients the catheter as used post-surgery for prostate patients is a "non issue." Or, an issue very manageable because of its short term use.

Age:  59 (58 at diagnosis - June, 2008)

April '08 PSA 4.8 ("free PSA" 7.9), up from 3.5 year prior

June '08 had biopsy, 2 days later told results positive but in less than 1% of sample

Gleason's 3+3=6

Developed sepsis 2 days post-biopsy, seriously ill in hospital for 3 days

Dr. recommended robotic removal using da Vinci

Surgery 9/10/08

Northwestern Memorial Hospital, Chicago, IL

Dr. Robert Nadler, Urologist/Surgeon

Post-op Gleason's:  3+3, Tertiary 4

Margins:  Free

Bladder & Urethral:  Free

Seminal vesicles:  Not involved

Lymphatic/Vascular Invasion:  Not involved

Tumor:  T2c; Location:  Bilateral; Volume:  20%

Catheter:  Removed 12-days after surgery

Incontinent:  Yes (1/2 light pads per day)

Combination of Cialis and MUSE (alprostadil) three times weekly started 9-27-08

Returned to work 9-29-08 (18-19 days post-op)

PSA test result, post-op, 10/08: 0.0; 12/08: 0.0; 4/09: 0.0

 


huey
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 27
   Posted 9/8/2009 10:52 AM (GMT -6)   

Sonny,

Very interesting topic you have brought up. I too have seen Dr. Menon and will soon schedule surgery with him so this is of great interest to me. But it is not clear to me if they prepare the patient for the Supra-Pubic catheter during the prostectomy or this is a separate procedure the next day. Do you have any information on the procedure that you can share with us? The Supra-Pubic catheter is inserted through the abdomen into the bladder, right?

Also, good luck on your surgery and keep us posted on your progress.

Huey


Age: 64
Dx: 6/2/09, Age 63
G: 3+3
PSA: 2.04
Samples: 12, 1PC, 20%
DRE:positive
Stage: t2a
Still trying to decide on treatment.
New PSA 7/28/09: 1.3. I don't understand it???


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 9/8/2009 11:00 AM (GMT -6)   
Here's a link that both tells and shows how it is done. I know it can be done under a local.

http://www.cma.ca/index.cfm/ci_id/37124/la_id/1.htm

David in SC
Age: 57, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 7/08 12.3, 9/08 14.5, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 - 7/7 Positive, 40-90% Cancer, Gleason 4+3
Open RP: 11/08, Rht nerves saved, 4 days in hospt, on catheters for 63 days, 5th one out 1/09
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20%, Contained in capsule, 1 pos margin
2009 PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Latest: 7/09 met 2 rad. oncl, 7/09 cath #6 - blockage, 8/09 2nd corr surgery, 8/9 cath #7 - out after 38 days


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 9/8/2009 11:08 AM (GMT -6)   
Huey, I am sure they would do the suprapubic cath while you were under during your operation, just like they insert the foley while you are still under. I have had 4 foleys inserted under extreme conditions while being fully alert, not something I would recommend.

One reason, and I am guess, while a more advanced surgeon as you mention might choose to do the supra vs. the foley, is that one of the main reasons to leave a catheter in, is to allow the bladder neck - urethra connection some time to heal. Usually 5-10 days seems to be normal, depending on the surgeon, when you get into complications, longer, i.e. my original was 30 days.

A suprapubic cath would have made life easier for me during that long month, as it were, when they did take it out, I was back in the ER the next morning having an emergency cath put in under great pain and pressure, the begining of my never ending blockage.

If the surgeon used the supra instead, there would be no tube running up the urethra, rubbing up against t he bladder neck connection, and might allow quicker and less painful healing in that area. Thats my guess.

David in SC
Age: 57, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 7/08 12.3, 9/08 14.5, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 - 7/7 Positive, 40-90% Cancer, Gleason 4+3
Open RP: 11/08, Rht nerves saved, 4 days in hospt, on catheters for 63 days, 5th one out 1/09
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20%, Contained in capsule, 1 pos margin
2009 PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Latest: 7/09 met 2 rad. oncl, 7/09 cath #6 - blockage, 8/09 2nd corr surgery, 8/9 cath #7 - out after 38 days


huey
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 27
   Posted 9/8/2009 11:31 AM (GMT -6)   
David, thanks for the reply and web info. This makes the procedure clear.

You have been through quite a battle with catheters and I hope you are doing much better now. Good luck on your treatment.

Huey
Age: 64
Dx: 6/2/09, Age 63
G: 3+3
PSA: 2.04
Samples: 12, 1PC, 20%
DRE:positive
Stage: t2a
Still trying to decide on treatment.
New PSA 7/28/09: 1.3. I don't understand it???


James C.
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4462
   Posted 9/8/2009 11:54 AM (GMT -6)   
I have always felt that the emphasis on the discomfort of the catheter is sorta a cornerstone of some of the things that this site clings to. Sorta like a sacred cow, passed down thru the generations, with people telling the next guy just how it will be, before they get there, so the new guy has an already preconceived idea of just how miserable he is going to be. A self-fulfilling prophecy, so to speak. I know when I came on here for the first time, it seemed like every 4th post dealt with how to prepare for it, how to cope with it while it was in, and how miserable it was, and how much freedom we felt when it was removed. A catheter is a fairly common appliance used post-surgery for a lot of different surgeries and illnesses, and I really don't read of other areas that place so much emphasis on how awful one is, like we do here. Maybe we need to have something to complain about, to take our minds off other things, or to feel part of the group? I'm not discounting the discomfort and all, just wondering if it is really that big a deal for 10 days or so, or has it grown into a group myth? smilewinkgrin
James C. Age 62
Co-Moderator- Prostate Cancer Forum
4/07 PSA 7.6, referred to Urologist, recheck 6.7
7/07 Biopsy: 3 of 16 PCa, 5% involved, left lobe, GS 3/3=6
9/07 Nerve sparing open RRP 110gms.- Path Report: GS 3+3=6 Stg. pT2c, 110gms, margins clear
22 mts: ED- 50 mg Viagra 3X week, pump daily,Trimix 30/1/20-.05ml 2X week continues
PSA's: .04 each test since surgery


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 9/8/2009 12:05 PM (GMT -6)   
James, that kind of struck my funny bone, lol. You mean, we men at HW Prostate Cancer have created an Urban Myth. That's pretty cool in itself.

You could say the same thing about biopsies, some men feel it was the most terrible and painful thing in their life, and others just brush it off as if they were getting their teeth cleaned.

Pain, real or imagined, is a very subejctive thing.

In the same subject matter, I have wondered if being circumsised or non-circumsised makes any difference to the whole catheter subject.

From what my doctor said, they are more difficult to install in men in general, because the length is much more than in a woman's body, and we have the "hook" that has to be dealt with.

In retrospect, after all my catheter disaster stories, if I knew that I was only ever going to be on one for 5-10 days after surgery, and that was it, I would have never found it news worthy to mention in the first place, lol.

Perhaps it is a rite of passage for us surgery guys.

David in SC
Age: 57, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 7/08 12.3, 9/08 14.5, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 - 7/7 Positive, 40-90% Cancer, Gleason 4+3
Open RP: 11/08, Rht nerves saved, 4 days in hospt, on catheters for 63 days, 5th one out 1/09
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20%, Contained in capsule, 1 pos margin
2009 PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Latest: 7/09 met 2 rad. oncl, 7/09 cath #6 - blockage, 8/09 2nd corr surgery, 8/9 cath #7 - out after 38 days


Sonny3
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 2447
   Posted 9/8/2009 1:31 PM (GMT -6)   
All of you guys have a lot more experience dealing with this issue than I do, no doubt. Each of you have raised some very good points. So in the interest of being complete with my input, I called Dr. Menon's office and asked the questions.

They started doing the Supra about 2 years ago, not 4 as I thought.

Initially their goal was to relieve the source of aggravation that their patients had expressed in having to deal with the Foley. To these patients the discomfort was real and the feedback seemed to be at the top of the list when conducting the follow-ups they do for the next 5-10 years.

The Foley and the Supra are both put in at the time of surgery. Thank God this is done while my butt is knocked unconscious.

They found that removing the Foley before you leave the hospital got rid of the aggravation. Additionally, the surgical techniques they have developed for reconnecting to the bladder neck (their effort to reduce the incontinence issue) showed evidence of a better and more complete healing, in a shorter period of time.

Lastly, they told me I would actually have three tubes when I woke from surgery.

The third tube is also their effort to reduce discomfort. It is connected to a pain pump device that administers pain medication during the week following surgery before the cath is removed and you are cleared to go home. The device is called the On Q. I have personal experience with this device. My baseball playing, college senior son, had arthroscopies on both knees this summer and the device was installed for the week following to allow him to heal without pain. I have had 5 of this type of surgery over the years and I have to tell you he was moving around and rehabbing much quicker than I ever did.

What a bunch of nice guys, don't ya think? They take the tube out of the penis to make you comfortable and then pump you with pain medication so you really don't care about the rest of it anyway.

Seems to me that their reputation of dealing with the removal, cure or whatever you want to call it, of Prostate Cancer would be enough. They sure do seem to go the extra mile to help the patient recover with as little difficulty as possible.

I am not a commercial for these folks yet. Let's wait and see how they actually do. But, I just haven't seen this kind of patient first effort on many others posts on PC forums.

I am sure that if I have all of this wrong, some of you guys will let me know. Feel free. As I see it all of our discussions are about open and honest dialog in our efforts to be supportive to the members of this "Sorry You Have to Be Here Club", anyway.

Sonny
60 years old
PSA November 2007 3.0
PSA May 2009 6.4
Diagnosis confirmed July 9, 2009
12 Needle Biopsy = 9 clear , 3 postive
<5%, 90%, 40%
Gleason Score (3+4) 7 in all positive cores
CT Organ Scan - negative
Nuclear Bone Scan - Negative

Surgery set for September 17th, 2009 with Dr. Mani Menon at the Henry Ford Medical Center in Detroit.


DJBearGuy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 757
   Posted 9/8/2009 2:24 PM (GMT -6)   
Sonny,

Thanks for raising an important topic.

Did you happen to find out, after Menon's group removes the Foley, do they leave something in its place? The reason I ask is that one function of the Foley is to keep the passage open while healing, so that it doesn't heal itself shut. It doesn't happen too often, but there are cases where the body is understandably confused, and the wrong things heal together. I think there was a fellow here whose ureter decided to connect to his large intestine, and he wound up with feces coming out the wrong opening.

That's great that they will give you a pain pump. I was fortunate to have a nurse who was there to give me a shot of morphine whenever I needed it.

Good luck next week!

DJ
Diagnosis at age 53. PSA 2007 about 2; PSA 2008 4.3
Biopsy September 2008: 6 of 12 cores positive; Gleason 4+3 = 7
CT and Bone scan negative
Da Vinci surgery at City of Hope December 8, 2008
Radical prostatectomy and lymph node dissection
Catheter out on 7th day, replaced on 8th day, out again 14th day following negative cystogram
Pathology: pT2c; lymph nodes negative; margins involved; 41 grams, 8% involved by tumor; same Gleason 4+3=7
PSA 1/22/08 non-detectable! 8-)
4/23/09 still undetectable!


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 9/8/2009 3:54 PM (GMT -6)   
Sonny, looks like what I was thinking about the suprapubic was backed up by your doctor's talk today on the subject. I for one, will be interested in how that plays out for you ahead. Please keep me posted.

David in SC
Age: 57, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 7/08 12.3, 9/08 14.5, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 - 7/7 Positive, 40-90% Cancer, Gleason 4+3
Open RP: 11/08, Rht nerves saved, 4 days in hospt, on catheters for 63 days, 5th one out 1/09
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20%, Contained in capsule, 1 pos margin
2009 PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Latest: 7/09 met 2 rad. oncl, 7/09 cath #6 - blockage, 8/09 2nd corr surgery, 8/9 cath #7 - out after 38 days


CPA
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 655
   Posted 9/8/2009 5:33 PM (GMT -6)   
Interesting post Sonny.  I'll be honest - never heard of the suprapubic catheter until your post.  As much as I detested the foley, it seems to me it was doing a couple of jobs - letting the bladder neck and urethra heal properly and at the same time keeping them open.  While I'll admit it was not pleasant - I can't really complain that much and I know it was doing something positive for me. Probably just as well I didn't know anything about the other option.  David

Diagnosed Dec 2007 during annual routine physical at age 55
PSA doubled from previous year from 1.5 to 3.2
12 biopsies - 2 pos; 2 marginal
Gleason 3+3; upgraded to 4+3 post surgery
RRP 4 Feb 08; both nerves spared
Good pathology - no margins - all encapsulated
Catheter out Feb 13 - pad free Feb 16
PSA every 90 days - ZERO's everytime!
Great wife and family who take very good care of me


Piano
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 847
   Posted 9/8/2009 6:06 PM (GMT -6)   
I agree with James C --

I didn't have any preconceived ideas about the Foley, having had one in for a few days during a previous stint in hospital. While laid up, it was just another tube like the others attached to me -- and no bother.

After the PCa, mine was a little uncomfortable at times, and inconvenient sure. However I was still able to go on an hourly walk each day, although a little more slowly than usual. I was still glad to be rid of it. Eighteen months later, I still clearly remember going to the urology nurse to have it removed, along with the staples.

With the Supra, you still have the inconvenience factor of managing the tube and bags. The discomfort will be gone, but for me that was a minor part of the whole deal. As the Supra requires yet another abdominal incision, if I needed a catheter in future, I would be happy to stick with Mr Foley for 7-10 days. Longer term of course, the decision would swing towards the Supra.

Like everything else, you don't know how you will handle the Foley until you try. As James said, you may find the Foley is not as bad as you think. Of course, if you have had bad experiences like David's, (Purgatory's) then the Supra is a clear winner.
Pre-op:
Age 63 at diagnosis, now 64.
No symptoms; PSA 5.7; Gleason 4+5=9; cancer in 4 of 12 cores.
Operation:
Non-nerve sparing RRP on 7 March 2008.
Two nights in hospital; catheter out after 7 days.
Post-op:
Continent; no pads needed from the get-go.
Pathology showed organ confined and negative margins. Gleason downgraded to 4+4=8.
PSAs:
6-week : <0.05
7-month: <0.05
13-month: 0.07 (start of a trend?)
ED:
After a learning curve, Bimix injections (0.2ml) are working well. VED also works but we find it inferior to Bimix.
14 months: Occasional nocturnal erections.

Post Edited (Piano) : 9/8/2009 5:09:58 PM (GMT-6)


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 9/8/2009 6:22 PM (GMT -6)   
Piano, and when I mentioned the possibility of a supra for me after this last episode, my uro/surgoen wasn't keen on the idea, but would never explain why not. Even this last episode was 38 days straight ,a bit long to have something irritating your weiner all the time, between the pulling, the sticking, and the spasms, wished there had been another choice.

David in SC
Age: 57, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 7/08 12.3, 9/08 14.5, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 - 7/7 Positive, 40-90% Cancer, Gleason 4+3
Open RP: 11/08, Rht nerves saved, 4 days in hospt, on catheters for 63 days, 5th one out 1/09
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20%, Contained in capsule, 1 pos margin
2009 PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Latest: 7/09 met 2 rad. oncl, 7/09 cath #6 - blockage, 8/09 2nd corr surgery, 8/9 cath #7 - out after 38 days


RacingOyster
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 31
   Posted 9/8/2009 8:22 PM (GMT -6)   
I had a Foley catheter for 14 days after surgery, and it gave me few problems. After a few bouts of urinary retention I had three more Foleys inserted and then removed, each for about three days. The only one of the four that gave me any problems at all was the one secured to my thigh with only tape. The other three were secured with a StatLock Foley Stabilization Device. It's a clip attached to an adhesive pad that stays in place on your thigh for the entire time you have the catheter. It's very secure, and even if the leg bag gets full and slips, it will not pull on the catheter. Because there's no slipping or pulling, there's no irritation. Some hospitals use them, and some don't, and maybe you can specifically request a StatLock device to help if you choose to go with the Foley.

Living in the northern Atlanta suburbs.

Good health and no symptoms when my annual physical uncovered an elevated PSA.

Diagnosis at age 55: PSA 4.6 - positive biopsy 3 of 12 cores - Gleason 3+3=6.

Open Radical Retropubic Prostatectomy with bilateral lymphadenectomy on 6/18/2009.

Pathology report after surgery showed negative margins, cancer contained in capsule.

PSA at 4 weeks after surgery <0.1 (all other problems are minor considering being cancer-free)

Catheters required on-and-off for 34 days after surgery due to recurring urinary retention.

Currently using 3-4 pads during the day, dry at night (10 weeks after surgery).

 


Sonny3
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 2447
   Posted 9/8/2009 8:38 PM (GMT -6)   
As I have come to expect from this forum, you guys are the calm, experienced voices of reason.

Each of your posts have valid information. Thank you for sharing your experiences with me.

I don't know that I really have a choice in the catheter that will be used. It would appear that using the Foley the day of surgery followed by the Supra-Pubic is the standard routine for them. I suppose that I could talk to them and tell them I don't want to go through the added surgery of the Supra but I am not sure.

I chose Dr. Menon and his staff because of their skill and reputation in this area. They must have sound reasoning for doing it this way and I might be better off going with the program. If nothing else I can learn something that can be passed on to others who will travel down this road behind us.

It has been and interesting day of conversation though. Some of the questions that were raised prompted me to call the Dr. and I now know more about this facet of the plan than I did yesterday. Thank you guys for that. I want to know as much as I can before I go up there a week from tomorrow.

I can only imagine that my brain will be going a mile a second from the time I arrive until I go into surgery. The more I know before hand, the more I learn what I should ask before hand, and the more organized I am with my questions (written down of course) the calmer I can approach this when the time arrives.

Thanks guys,

Sonny
60 years old
PSA November 2007 3.0
PSA May 2009 6.4
Diagnosis confirmed July 9, 2009
12 Needle Biopsy = 9 clear , 3 postive
<5%, 90%, 40%
Gleason Score (3+4) 7 in all positive cores
CT Organ Scan - negative
Nuclear Bone Scan - Negative

Surgery set for September 17th, 2009 with Dr. Mani Menon at the Henry Ford Medical Center in Detroit.


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 9/8/2009 9:13 PM (GMT -6)   
Sonny, I am sure you will do well with your upcoming surgery. You got one more weekend to get through, then it will be your surgery week. The good thing, once they get you in pre-op, and get your hooked up with IV(s), they can give you the "I don't care any more" med through the tube, and you know something, you really won't care. lol. I never mind that part.

Yeah, written questions are the way to go, I never let any of my doctors rush me out, regardless of the one's that overbook like the airlines, I don't give up until I get all my questions answered. A few people use small tape recorders, if you do that, it is polite to ask if it is ok to record.

Wishing you the best ahead brother, let's get that surgery behind you.

David in SC
Age: 57, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 7/08 12.3, 9/08 14.5, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 - 7/7 Positive, 40-90% Cancer, Gleason 4+3
Open RP: 11/08, Rht nerves saved, 4 days in hospt, on catheters for 63 days, 5th one out 1/09
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20%, Contained in capsule, 1 pos margin
2009 PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Latest: 7/09 met 2 rad. oncl, 7/09 cath #6 - blockage, 8/09 2nd corr surgery, 8/9 cath #7 - out after 38 days


Bluenose
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2008
Total Posts : 260
   Posted 9/8/2009 9:28 PM (GMT -6)   

 

  ...IMO, I feel the supra is over the top. PCa is already getting hit with the 'over treatement' tag....I was scared to death about the cath, just from what I'd read on this froum, I argree with James post 100%....it's not that bad, I took the advice I gleened from this forum, and had no problem at all. I shaved my thighs, went with the leg bag during the day, big bag at night. Hearing my fathers voice, 'sometimes you just have to grab the bootsrtraps and get with it'.. With that said, with what David(Purg) went through, he's a rare bird, no doubt I would be saying NO Way do I want another cath....and hopefully self cath is not in his future. 


 
  age: 53 @ Dx, Pre-op PSA Feb 08' 5.0, April 08' 4.1
  Biopsy 5.1.08, 5 of 15 cores postive, T2a, Gleason 3+4=7
  DaVinci performed 7.29.08
  Bladder sling installed, umbilical hernia repaired during surgery.
  Path report, "cancer fully contained, margins clear".
  Cath removed 8.8.08, ED therapy begins 8.9.08
  100mg Viagra three times a week, pump for ten minutes daily
  and hold for ten minutes.
  8.16.08 switched to Levitra 20mg, immediate results
  9.15.08 Pad free at night, one thin (light) pad during the day
  9.18.08 1st Post-op PSA Undetectable Zero's....Yes!
  12.22.08 2nd Post-op PSA  Zero's still...
  6.23.09 1yr Post-op PSA Still a zero..
  Pads gone 1.3.09, finally found the courage...Thanks ya'll
          ".....tryin' to reason with hurricane season...."
       


Worried Guy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 3734
   Posted 9/8/2009 9:49 PM (GMT -6)   
I was fortunate to have the Foley for 10 days. It was uncomfortable but livable. It's only 10 days. I figure any extra hole the doc is making is a chance for infection and a place that needs to heal. With the SP cath, he is going through your skin, abdominals and bladder. And you still have a tube sticking out of you that can get caught on the bedside table. That seems like a lot of extra messin' where they shouldn't be messin' so to speak. With the Foley you already have a hole where one belongs. And when it comes out you piss like a race horse. I wished I could have invited my friends over to hear it!
Good luck with whatever you choose. May the catheter be your biggest concern. ;-)
Jeff
DX Age 56. First routine PSA test on April 8th: 17.8. My GP does not believe in general PSA screening so I did not get results during my 50 year physical.
May PSA: 22.6, 3 weeks later: PSA: 23.2.
Biopsy 6/10/09: 7/12 scores positive, Gleason 6=3+3. Bone scan and C/T scan negative.
----------------------------------------------
RP DaVinci -7/21/2009 @ Univ of Roch Medical Center
Left nerve gone, right partial spared.
Catheter removed - 7/31/2009 Pathology report received:
Gleason 3+4=7 Tumor size: 2.5 x 1.8 cm location: both lobes and apex. No Malignancy in Seminal Vesicle, vasa deferentia, lymph nodes 0/13
Extraprostatic extension present
Perineural invasion: present, extensive
Prostate mass 56 grams. Pathologic Stage: pT3aN0MX
----------------------------------------------
One Month Status:
Potency - No data
Incontinence - 8/20 3-4 full pads per day
9/7 3-4 full pads per day (I'm going to try cutting down on fluids. Bad idea, I know)


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 9/8/2009 9:54 PM (GMT -6)   
Bluenose,

Yeah, according to my uro/surgeon, I seem to be in a 5% at most group of men having continual blockage problem after surgery, especially this far out. The more caths I have been on, the more I got use to them, didn't make me like it any more, but you adapt, you adjust. Plus after several very painful blockages, you learn that there are far worse things to deal with than the nuisance of having a catheter in you. It got to the point, where I wouldn't agree to have one taken out, until there was a real game plan in place for the blockages.

Scary there, I had the corrective laser surgery on August 18th, a little over 3 weeks ago, and for the past two days, I can already feel and tell the stream is slowing down already, and I am getting that deep bladder neck pain again. I thought I would be good for at least a year this time, don't know yet, if it keeps slowing up, going to be forced to call my doctor, still again. We talked once about self cath, not going to happen with me. Hoping for the best. And this current round of mending me up is so that I can be ready to start salvage radiation if needed. Will know more about that when I meet with the 3rd radiation oncologist this coming Monday.

David in SC
Age: 57, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 7/08 12.3, 9/08 14.5, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 - 7/7 Positive, 40-90% Cancer, Gleason 4+3
Open RP: 11/08, Rht nerves saved, 4 days in hospt, on catheters for 63 days, 5th one out 1/09
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20%, Contained in capsule, 1 pos margin
2009 PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Latest: 7/09 met 2 rad. oncl, 7/09 cath #6 - blockage, 8/09 2nd corr surgery, 8/9 cath #7 - out after 38 days


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 9/8/2009 10:01 PM (GMT -6)   
Jeff, until Sonny posted his doctor's plan using a suprapubic catheter, had never heard or read of one being used post prostate surgery. According to my wife (nurse), usually only for long term catheter use, i.e. elderly who can't move about much, certain people with other disabilities. They say they are not uncomfortable, not compared to where a foley comes out of a man, or a woman for that matter.

For most surgery guys, the catheter is such a short period of time, usually in line with staples being removed, they find out for the most part, it doesn't hurt coming out, and with most, they leave surgery with a strong stream and beging the next phase, getting dry.

David in SC
Age: 57, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 7/08 12.3, 9/08 14.5, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 - 7/7 Positive, 40-90% Cancer, Gleason 4+3
Open RP: 11/08, Rht nerves saved, 4 days in hospt, on catheters for 63 days, 5th one out 1/09
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20%, Contained in capsule, 1 pos margin
2009 PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Latest: 7/09 met 2 rad. oncl, 7/09 cath #6 - blockage, 8/09 2nd corr surgery, 8/9 cath #7 - out after 38 days


jackcc
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2006
Total Posts : 80
   Posted 9/9/2009 12:56 AM (GMT -6)   
If I had read these posts before my surgery, I would have been scared to death.
1........I knew nothing about any of this before surgery.
2........I was against additional surgeries or procedures. One was enough.
3........The foley was no big deal. It was a new adventure and I dealt with it as I had to.
It was all part of the surgery.
4........Sometimes, too much knowledge is not a good thing.
5........Again. It was no big deal./

Sonny3
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 2447
   Posted 9/10/2009 12:12 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks guys for all of the positive support, prayers and blessings. Surgery is officially one week from today and I feel as ready as I will ever be. Dang, I am so tired out from the countless Kegels throughout the day, everyday, in preparation.

I am not really giving much thought to it right now. I am way to busy trying to finish all the "honey do's" and "Job Jars" before I leave. I sure don't want my wife to be worrying about anything while I am gone. As you know from my previous posts, the Dr. won't allow her to go with me because of the airplane bugs. Her system just can't take another hit right now or ever for that matter.

Reading through the posts, you guys have to know that all I ever look for is open and honest dialog. Nothing is ever viewed as negative by me. Like my own posts, they are always only someone's opinion, research and experiences. We all have to remember that like I and all of you, we came to be members of the "Crappy Club - You Don't Want to Be A Member Of", through no fault of our own. We came to this site in search of answers, questions, knowledge and support.

As I see it something is to be learned in one way or another from every post I read or write. No one size fits all in this arena.

So keep the posts a flyin. Somebody will read something along the way and use it or pass it along and we will never know whose life we touched, made better or saved because of something we wrote.

Thanks guys,
Sonny
60 years old
PSA November 2007 3.0
PSA May 2009 6.4
Diagnosis confirmed July 9, 2009
12 Needle Biopsy = 9 clear , 3 postive
<5%, 90%, 40%
Gleason Score (3+4) 7 in all positive cores
CT Organ Scan - negative
Nuclear Bone Scan - Negative

Surgery set for September 17th, 2009 with Dr. Mani Menon at the Henry Ford Medical Center in Detroit.


STW
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2009
Total Posts : 292
   Posted 9/10/2009 4:18 PM (GMT -6)   
A Foley issue I've not seen yet was my lot. At two weeks post op, when they tried to remove it, the dang thing was stuck. Apparently, it hung up on a stitch somewhere up there and needed more time for the stitch to dissolve. Interesting experience to have both the doc and his PA tugging away with no results.

They sent me home (a Thursday) with instructions to call Monday if it is still stuck. It came out with a pit of an internal pop on Saturday.
Diagnosed at 54
PSA 8.7
Biopsy 1/7/09
4 of 6 cores positive, one at 90%
Gleason 3+4=7
Neg bone scan 1/15/09
One shot Lupron Depot 1/27/09
Tax Season
RP 4/29/09
Neg lymph nodes, postive seminal vesicle, 1 positive margin
Gleason 3+4=7 with tertiary 5
Catheter out at 2 weeks no nighttime incontinence
Pad free week 5
PSA 6/6/09 <0.1
PSA 9/10/09 <0.1

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