Sonny End of 3rd Day waiting for the other shoe to fall

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Sonny3
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 2448
   Posted Yesterday 8:14 PM (GMT -6)   
It's Sunday afternoon 3 days post surgery and things are going so well I feel like I am waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Every day is better by discomfort standards. Really don't have any pain per se unles I sneeze or someone I talk to on the phone feels it is there obligation to make me laugh. Had to hang up on one good friend, told him he was hurting me with the jokes and laughter. He understood I think. I'll find out the next time I talk to him.

In my last post Saturday morning, I was waiting for the opportunity to pass gas. Well that time came about noon, what a welcomed relief. The rest followed shortly thereafter. 4 good Bms in the last two days. Feel human again. I think that did a lot to relieve the discomfort too.

I think that my plan to begin the post surgery recommended diet the week before surgery really helped in the intestinal part of the recovery.

I figured out by measuring the parking spots width by number of spots that it is .27 miles around the lot here at the complex. I walk four times each day and do at least 2 and sometimes 3 laps. So I figure that I am doing at least 2-2 1/2 miles per day. It is at an easy pace, I don't feel winded and don't feel like I am overdoing it.

I have noticed today that the sitting part is getting a little less comfortable and easy to do without moving around a bunch.

But I do have a question of you guys. Why is it that none of you has fessed up to the fact that the most comfortable place to sit is "ON THE JOHN." I swear that if I was home (where I have tv in the bathroom) I could sit and watch the whole football game tonight if it wasn't for the fact that my butt would go to sleep and I might be trapped there. What is up with that, it is some kind of inside trade secret for only the most experienced of you guys?

This is primarily for purgatory (Davdi in SC) as concerns the Supra Pubic Catheter. I can only speak for myself and with the caveat that I have never had a Foley. I love this thing. If you gotta have a cath. I don't know why you would have the Foley.

The tube is installed at the time of the surgery. It is center of the abdomen just a couple of inches below the navel. The tube is held in place with a couple of stitches and is just a little larger that the catheter tube. The catheter tube runs through it to the bladder. Doing it this way allows for the catheter to be taken out and reinserted if need be. I have read that folks that have to have it for a long time can actually reinsert new ones themselves with the proper training.

Advantages; the tube is faced toward the left and is just below the waistline, if you are wearing the leg bag it is a simple connect and the bag is worn on the outside of the leg and the tube is held in place by brief or boxer brief style briefs on the OUTSIDE of the leg. Sitting, standing or crossing you legs doesn't kink the tube and there is no back and forth friction with movement. When I have worn it you don't even know the tube is there. When it is connected to the large bag the tube just comes out the top of the waist band. I have been wearing cargo shorts and whenever I move around in the apt I just hang the bag on the pocket. Hasn't gotten in the way yet.

Most of the time when I go for my walks I don't bother to change from the big bag. I just drop it is a doubled plastic grocery bag or small canvas shopping bag and carry it by the handles. The only thing you see is the clear tube and you have to be looking for it to see it.

The biggest advantage to it may be why they have such high stats in dealing with continence. My catheter comes out Wednesday. On Monday morning I start what they call Cycling. I empty the bag when I get up then turn off the valve on the tube. The bladder then fills naturally. I am supposed to leave the valve off 2-3 hours, with a goal of 3. Then I urinate the good ole fashion way. I go in a measured urinal and chart how much. When I feel I am done I open the valve and leave it open for 5 minutes. If anything comes out I dump it in the measuring urinal and record how much. This tells them if I am voiding completely or not and it not how much the bladder is retaining. I do this all day then open the valve at night and let the bag collect it so I can sleep without having to get up. Next day do the same thing. Then take the results with me to the catheter removal appointment.

I can't seem to find anything wrong with this approach and it could not be done this way with a Foley. open to input guys, if you see any holes in my logic.

Can't add too much at this point. I think I am having a very good recovery and saying my daily prayers that the continence and ED issues will go along this smoothly.

Missed talking with you guys the last couple of days. My brain just wasn't all there and it was a little difficult. But now I feel back and am ready to fully participate.

Thanks so much for your prayers and support.

Sonny
60 years old
PSA November 2007 3.0
PSA May 2009 6.4
Diagnosis confirmed July 9, 2009
12 Needle Biopsy = 9 clear , 3 postive
<5%, 90%, 40%
Gleason Score (3+4) 7 in all positive cores
CT Organ Scan - negative
Nuclear Bone Scan - Negative

Surgery done on September 17th by Dr. Menon, Vattikuit Urology Institute, Henry Ford Medical Center, Detroit.


Sleepless09
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 1267
   Posted Yesterday 10:36 PM (GMT -6)   
Hey Sonny, great to hear from you again and thanks for the interesting catheter report. The next time I have my prostate out, that's what I'm going to try to do.

I'm a fan of walking, and drinking, and walking, and drinking, but I'm worried with the walking that you might over do it. I'm not sure anything more than a quarter to half a mile, a couple times a day, makes any difference on the up side, but I do know that if you over do it, that's not good. I don't want to discourage you, but recovery is no time to be pushing yourself beyond what's optimal. But, of course, I don't really know what optimal is.

Keep on with those reports,

Sheldon AKA Sleepless
Age 67 in Apil '09 at news of 4 of 12 cores positive T2B and Gleason 3 + 3 and 5% to 25% PSA 1.5
Re-read of slides in June said Gleason 3 + 4 same four cores 5% to 15%
June 29 daVinci prostatectomy, Dr. Eric Estey, at Royal Alexandra Hospital Edmonton one night stay
Flew home to Winnipeg on July 3 after 5 nights in Ramada Inn  ---  perfect recovery spot!
Catheter out July 9, so far, so good
Final pathology is 3 + 4 Gleason 7, clear margins, clear nodes, T2C, sugeron says report is "excellent"  


DJBearGuy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 818
   Posted Yesterday 11:13 PM (GMT -6)   
Sonny,

Good to hear you are doing well. I will be very interested to hear about your experience in the next few days.

I thought my surgical experience was really good. But I wasn't able to walk as much as you--because after 20 minutes or so, that Foley tube rattling around would just make my pecker sore. So you have a definite advantage there.

You must be right about the toilet seat. I think I had stumbled on an arrangement of pillows that was sort of similar. Most regular comfortable chairs were not so comfortable for a while.

DJ
Diagnosis at age 53. PSA 2007 about 2; PSA 2008 4.3
Biopsy September 2008: 6 of 12 cores positive; Gleason 4+3 = 7
CT and Bone scan negative
Da Vinci surgery at City of Hope December 8, 2008
Radical prostatectomy and lymph node dissection
Catheter out on 7th day, replaced on 8th day, out again 14th day following negative cystogram
Pathology: pT2c; lymph nodes negative; margins involved; 41 grams, 8% involved by tumor; same Gleason 4+3=7
PSA 1/22/08 non-detectable! 8-)
4/23/09, 07/30/09 still undetectable!


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25393
   Posted Yesterday 11:14 PM (GMT -6)   
Hey Bro. Sonny,

Up late tonight and just caught your update. I still think you are having a remarkable time post surgery, and the higher quality methods your dr. is using impresses me to no ends. Thanks for detailing the suprapubic catheter experience, yes, there are people that have them for above 10 to 15 years , or even more. I agree with you, makes me wonder why my own uro/surgeon has allowed me to suffer for over 100 days on 7 different ones in the past 10 months.

Continue to heal, I am sincerely happy to hear how well you are doing.

David in SC
Age: 57, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 7/08 12.3, 9/08 14.5, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 - 7/7 Positive, 40-90% Cancer, Gleason 4+3
Open RP: 11/08, Rht nerves saved, 4 days in hospt, on catheters for 63 days, 5th one out 1/09
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20%, Contained in capsule, 1 pos margin
2009 PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Latest: 7/09 met 2 rad. oncl, 7/09 cath #6 - blockage, 8/09 2nd corr surgery, 8/9 cath #7 - out  38 days, 9/14/9 - met 3rd rad. oncl., agreed to start radiation, does not rec. HT at this time, mapping on 9/21/9


Sonny3
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 2448
   Posted Yesterday 11:54 PM (GMT -6)   
Hey guys thanks for the updates about the walking. I may be overdoing it. Maybe try cutting back a little tomorrow. Still do the 4 walks tomorrow, just maybe only 1 lap each time.

Boy howdy, the black and blues sure showed up today. The last time my johnson was that black and blue was in Hong Kong while I was in the Navy. But that's not a story for here. Suffice is to say that at 19 yrs old I thought it was going to fall off.

David, thanks for the words man. I thought about sending you an email with my phone number. But the last time I sent one to your listed yahoo address I didn't get a reply, so I wasn't sure it's working for you. Was going to talk with you personally in case you had any questions abt the Supra that I didn't address. Let me know.

Thanks for the continued support,
Sonny
60 years old
PSA November 2007 3.0
PSA May 2009 6.4
Diagnosis confirmed July 9, 2009
12 Needle Biopsy = 9 clear , 3 postive
<5%, 90%, 40%
Gleason Score (3+4) 7 in all positive cores
CT Organ Scan - negative
Nuclear Bone Scan - Negative

Surgery done on September 17th by Dr. Menon, Vattikuit Urology Institute, Henry Ford Medical Center, Detroit.


Piano
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 847
   Posted Today 12:00 AM (GMT -6)   
Sonny: it's great to hear you are doing so well.

I am especially interested in the Supra. Considering it's position, 2 inches below the navel, that places it above the bladder. So how does the bladder empty while you are upright?

I initially thought that the bladder would be full to overflowing, but now I think I am about to answer my own question: the bladder is an elastic bag and contracts to always be the smallest size it can be. With the Supra valve open, this contraction will force the urine out, so the bladder will be empty.

Following on from that, you will have no urge to void either, since the bladder will always be empty, or close enough. So I answered my second question too, I think.

If I am wrong about the mechanics of this, someone please chip in.
Pre-op:
Age 63 at diagnosis, now 64.
No symptoms; PSA 5.7; Gleason 4+5=9; cancer in 4 of 12 cores.
Operation:
Non-nerve sparing RRP on 7 March 2008.
Two nights in hospital; catheter out after 7 days.
Post-op:
Continent; no pads needed from the get-go.
Pathology showed organ confined and negative margins. Gleason downgraded to 4+4=8.
PSAs:
6-week : <0.05
7-month: <0.05
13-month: 0.07 (start of a trend?)
ED:
After a learning curve, Bimix injections (0.2ml) are working well. VED also works but we find it inferior to Bimix.
14 months: Occasional nocturnal erections.


Sonny3
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 2448
   Posted Today 6:31 AM (GMT -6)   
Piano, you assumptions must be correct. I never feel pressure on the bladder and they told me something (I was drugged) about pressure and negative whatever, that it would just always empty the bladder out and the only thing I needed to do was have the bag below my groin. That made it clear as mud didn't it.

I have noticed that there is always something moving in the tube. Even when I am carrying the bag at my side in the grocery bag, with the tubing coiled, it always seems to flow into the collection area when there is enough in the tube.

They did tell me that part of the cycling process is to allow the bladder to begin expanding once again because it will have been in a contracted state. They need it to fill back up much like a balloon. Stretch it out so it holds more.

Whatever the technology. I think this has been a comfortable arrangement. I do like the idea about the cycling and trying out the ability to hold my own water for 2 days before the cath is removed. It may be dumb on my part but it gives me a more confident feeling that when I leave here I will be able to hold it fairly well.

We'll see. I have removed the pain pump lead that was in my abdomen and according to instructions I need to wait until about 2pm to begin the cycling process. They are taking my cath out a day early so they told me to wait until the afternoon the first day of cycling to begin.

Thanks for the well wishes and support,

Sonny
60 years old
PSA November 2007 3.0
PSA May 2009 6.4
Diagnosis confirmed July 9, 2009
12 Needle Biopsy = 9 clear , 3 postive
<5%, 90%, 40%
Gleason Score (3+4) 7 in all positive cores
CT Organ Scan - negative
Nuclear Bone Scan - Negative

Surgery done on September 17th by Dr. Menon, Vattikuit Urology Institute, Henry Ford Medical Center, Detroit.

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