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cowboy bob
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 116
   Posted 10/6/2009 6:58 AM (GMT -6)   
As many of you know, I had my prostate removed in the summer of 2007. Since then, the addition of an AUS has fixed my incontinence, but I still have ED.  I was thinking that while penetration is very difficult the normal way, it seems that having sexual relations orally would take care of the problem. The entry method would be easy, both in the female-to-male part, as well as in the male-to-female part. Thus, both parties would obtain greater satisfation. Anyone agree?

cowboy bob
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 116
   Posted 10/6/2009 7:29 AM (GMT -6)   
p.s. I have tried Levitra, Cialis, and Viagra. Viagra helps a little, but not much.

Steve n Dallas
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2008
Total Posts : 4848
   Posted 10/6/2009 7:32 AM (GMT -6)   
I would say it's a no brainer. But some people aren't so inclined...
 
I had many friends bring up this subject as "there are more then one way to skin a cat."
Age 54   - 5'11"   205lbs
Overall Heath Condition - Good
PSA - July 2007 & Jan 2008 -> 1.3
Biopsy - 03/04/08 -> Gleason 6 
06/25/08 - Da Vinci robotic laparoscopy
05/14/09  - 4th Quarter PSA -> less then .01
Surgeon - Keith A. Waguespack, M.D.


cowboy bob
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 116
   Posted 10/6/2009 7:35 AM (GMT -6)   
Thanks Steve. It's just getting frustrating after years of enjoyment, and now it's a drag just trying.

cowboy bob
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 116
   Posted 10/6/2009 7:37 AM (GMT -6)   
p.s. I don't even think my spouse is so inclined, and I probably won't even bring it up (no pun intended). Was just trying to think of ways to make it better for both of us.

JoeyG
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 162
   Posted 10/6/2009 7:59 AM (GMT -6)   
Cowboybob,
 
Answer is certainly! There are ways to satisfaction other than penetration and oral is very much acceptable as long as both partners are willing to do it.
Age -57; Diagnosed 10/05 PSA 13.4 GS 9 Organ confined (T2B)
Cryoablation 4/06 Allegheny Hosp-Dr Ralph Miller (Cohen/Miller)
Post Cryo Nadir 8/06 0.2
Rising steadily to 0.7 4/09 :-(
Steady at 0.7 (7/09) (Pomegranate???)
Looking to take next steps soon
Hoping to qualify for salvage cryo or radiation


cowboy bob
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 116
   Posted 10/6/2009 8:02 AM (GMT -6)   
Thank you JoeyG!

JoeyG
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 162
   Posted 10/6/2009 8:04 AM (GMT -6)   
One other thing----if the wife may not be inclined but you are, you should still both try. I think the main thing that turns some people off to it is that there is the thought that it is not acceptable. Hey, Monica did it...right? 
Age -57; Diagnosed 10/05 PSA 13.4 GS 9 Organ confined (T2B)
Cryoablation 4/06 Allegheny Hosp-Dr Ralph Miller (Cohen/Miller)
Post Cryo Nadir 8/06 0.2
Rising steadily to 0.7 4/09 :-(
Steady at 0.7 (7/09) (Pomegranate???)
Looking to take next steps soon
Hoping to qualify for salvage cryo or radiation


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25393
   Posted 10/6/2009 8:18 AM (GMT -6)   
If sex is limited to only penis to vagina intercourse, than it is really limited at best. Every couple is different of course, and not talking about a right or wrong here. Some men feel so devestated by their ED, pc induced or not, and refuse to experiement or try anything other than the one thing they can't do at the moment.

For all of us that have been married long term (a lot of us here) know that the women in our lives thrive on all kinds of physical affection, far beyond "norma" intercourse. If you weren't being receptive to that before your surgery/treatment changed things, then perhaps now is a time to refresh the romance, and yes, the sexual approach in your relationship.

Don't forget the holding of hands, holding her from behind with your strong arms, a kiss on the neck for no good reason, letting her know she is still the most gorgous woman in the world in your eyes, etc. etc.

I am not saying its not hard, frustrating ,and difficult to work with and through ED, but that's more of the motivation to keep things alive and interesting with the one you love.

David in SC
Age: 57, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 7/08 12.3, 9/08 14.5, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 - 7/7 Positive, 40-90% Cancer, Gleason 4+3
Open RP: 11/08, Rht nerves saved, 4 days in hospt, on catheters for 63 days, 5th one out 1/09
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin
Post Surgery  PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Latest: 7/09 met 2 rad. oncl, 7/09 cath #6 - blockage, 8/9 2nd corr surgery, 8/9 cath #7 - out  38 days, 9/14/9 - met 3rd rad. oncl.agree to start radiation, mapping on 9/21/9, 9/24 - mtg with uro/surg, 9/29- pre-op, 10/1 - 3rd corr. surgery - suprapubic cath/hard dialation, 10/5 - first treatment IMRT.


Sleepless09
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 1267
   Posted 10/6/2009 9:16 AM (GMT -6)   
Here's a thread to print out and put up in the kitchen with a fridge magnet the night the wife has her book club over. Hmmmmm? Just because you don't have a prostate doesn't mean you can't have fun.

I suspect the others in the room at this business meeting would be surprised to know what I'm "working on" over here!

Sheldon AKA Sleepless.
Age 67 in Apil '09 at news of 4 of 12 cores positive T2B and Gleason 3 + 3 and 5% to 25% PSA 1.5
Re-read of slides in June said Gleason 3 + 4 same four cores 5% to 15%
June 29 daVinci prostatectomy, Dr. Eric Estey, at Royal Alexandra Hospital Edmonton one night stay
Flew home to Winnipeg on July 3 after 5 nights in Ramada Inn  ---  perfect recovery spot!
Catheter out July 9, so far, so good
Final pathology is 3 + 4 Gleason 7, clear margins, clear nodes, T2C, sugeron says report is "excellent"
First post op PSA Sept 09  0.02
Oct 1st 09 -- dry at night, during day some stress issues, but better every week.    


Paul1959
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 598
   Posted 10/6/2009 1:02 PM (GMT -6)   
Guys,
would you think about putting your email address on your profile? I get NO spam from Healing Well. and it would be easier to discuss some of this where there are no women or children of patients.

But - having said that, I think JamesC, our illustrious moderator once said that there are two times in life to explore your sexuality. First is adolescence. Second is post PCA! This might also be better discussed on FrankTalk!...since it's...welll....frank.
If your wife is not keen on some of this, there are a few things you can do. First of all...Shave. Most women do not like hair...or the smell of it either. Trim it close, get a body groomer and trim it back. Or Shave altogether. There are MANY reports that women will find it easier to do if you are cleaned up down there. Wash up....everywhere down there. Take a shower. smell good. not like...well, you know.
Also, many women are afraid of gagging or losing control. Now that there will be no surprises at the end, it should help allay some fears. but make sure she is in control and in charge.

Then let's hope you are returning the favor. There are some real good techniques you should all be using...like finding her Gspot, etc.
Not sure this discussion should be here, but figured I would add my two cents.
Paul
46 at Diagnosis.
Father died of Pca 4/07 at 86.
10/07 PSA 5.06 (Biopsy 11/07 1 of 12 with 8% involvment) (1mm)
Da Vinci surgery Jan 5, '08 at Mt. Sinai Hosp. NYC www.roboticoncology.com
Saved both nerve bundles.
Path Report: Stage T2cNxMx
-Gleason (3+3)6
Pad free on March 14 - (10 weeks.) Never a problem since.
ED - at one year, ED is fine with viagra.
One year PSA - undectable!

ED Website: www.FrankTalk.org - frank discussions of Erectile Dysfunction - check it out.


Tudpock18
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Sep 2008
Total Posts : 4271
   Posted 10/6/2009 1:38 PM (GMT -6)   
TMI

Age 62, Gleason 4 +3 = 7, T1C, PSA 4.2, 2 of 16 cores cancerous, 27cc
Brachytherapy December 9, 2008.  73 Iodine-125 seeds.  Procedure went great, catheter out before I went home, only minor discomfort.  Regular activities resumed, everything continues to function normally as of 9/1/09.  6 month PSA  1.4 and my docs are "delighted"!

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25393
   Posted 10/6/2009 3:52 PM (GMT -6)   
Agree, lol
Age: 57, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 7/08 12.3, 9/08 14.5, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 - 7/7 Positive, 40-90% Cancer, Gleason 4+3
Open RP: 11/08, Rht nerves saved, 4 days in hospt, on catheters for 63 days, 5th one out 1/09
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin
Post Surgery  PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Latest: 7/09 met 2 rad. oncl, 7/09 cath #6 - blockage, 8/9 2nd corr surgery, 8/9 cath #7 - out  38 days, 9/14/9 - met 3rd rad. oncl.agree to start radiation, mapping on 9/21/9, 9/24 - mtg with uro/surg, 9/29- pre-op, 10/1 - 3rd corr. surgery - suprapubic cath/hard dialation, 10/5 - first treatment IMRT.


Radical
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 739
   Posted 10/6/2009 3:57 PM (GMT -6)   
Tudpock 18 - YOU NAILED IT !
Age 51yrs
DX 11/11/08
6 out of 8 cores positive 3 X 60% / 3 X 10%
PSA 4
Gleason Score 3+4=7
Stage T1c
Robotic Surgery 24/12/08
Upgrade Gleason Score 4+3=7 Gleason Differential 60%/40%
Stage T2c
Three small foci total volume <10%
Neg Margins and Nodes
Nil - Extraprostatic Extentions
Dry less than 1 week.
ED- taking Meds- Its been 9 mnths now getting some action ! yah
PSA 1/09  .03
PSA 2/09  .03
PSA 5/09  .03
PSA 9/09  .03
"Everyday in Everyway I get better"


livinadream
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 1382
   Posted 10/6/2009 5:56 PM (GMT -6)   
This has been a good thread to follow. I too am an advocate of renewing the relationship in ways outside of normal sexuality. Learning to be romantic is a wonderful experience that both parties will enjoy greatly. Learning to love again in the emotional rather than physical will render rewards beyond your greatest expectations.
Thanks for sharing your comments and I will continue to follow this.

peace and love
Dale
My PSA at diagnosis was 16.3
age 47 (current)

http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/dalechildress

My gleason score from prostate was 4+5=9 and from the lymph nodes (3 positive) was 4+4=8
I had 44 IMRT's
Casodex
Currently on Lupron
I go to The Cancer Treatment Center of America
Married with two kids
latest PSA 5-27-08 0.11

PSA July 24th, 2008 is 0.04
PSA Dec 16th, 2008 is .016
PSA Mar 30th, 2009 is .02
PSA July 28th 2009 is .01

Testosterone keeps rising, the current number is 156, up from 57 in May

T level dropped to 37 Mar 30th, 2009
cancer in 4 of 6 cores
92%
80%
37%
28%


geezer99
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 990
   Posted 10/6/2009 6:05 PM (GMT -6)   
Don't sell your wife short. Remember that "better or worse" part. Talk about the issue at a time when immediate action is not a possibility (like first thing on a week day morning.) You have fears of being rejected, is your marriage so weak that you can't tell your wife about those fears? She may have fears about "what nice girls do." Are you unable to have sympathy?

Start at the base -- you love each other. You both have enjoyed a physical relationship. Where do you go from here? Solve your problems together. Many of us have found that the support that we got from our wives has provided enormous strength.
Age at diagnosis 66, PSA 5.5
Biopsy 12/08 12 cores, 8 positive
Gleason 3+4=7
CAT scan, Bone scan 1/09 both negative.

Robotic surgery 03/03/09 Catheter Out 03/08/09
Pathology: Lymph nodes & Seminal vesicles negative
Margins positive, Capsular penetration extensive Gleason 4+3=7
6 weeks: 1 pad/day, 1 pad/night -- mostly dry at night.
10 weeks: no pad at night -- slight leakage day/1 pad.
3 mo. PSA 0.0 - now light pads


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25393
   Posted 10/6/2009 6:49 PM (GMT -6)   
geezer, i will second those sentiments exactly as stated. it might be my PC, but my wife and I, like we have done with everything in our lives, went into this together, from the very beginning of getting biopsies, through the surgery, the recovery, the surgeries and complications after, etc. all of the above bringing us even closer together.
Age: 57, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 7/08 12.3, 9/08 14.5, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 - 7/7 Positive, 40-90% Cancer, Gleason 4+3
Open RP: 11/08, Rht nerves saved, 4 days in hospt, on catheters for 63 days, 5th one out 1/09
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin
Post Surgery  PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Latest: 7/09 met 2 rad. oncl, 7/09 cath #6 - blockage, 8/9 2nd corr surgery, 8/9 cath #7 - out  38 days, 9/14/9 - met 3rd rad. oncl.agree to start radiation, mapping on 9/21/9, 9/24 - mtg with uro/surg, 9/29- pre-op, 10/1 - 3rd corr. surgery - suprapubic cath/hard dialation, 10/5 - first treatment IMRT.


cowboy bob
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 116
   Posted 10/8/2009 8:27 AM (GMT -6)   
Great comments by everyone. Thank you. Would really love to get a woman's point of view too if any of you PC wives see this.

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25393
   Posted 10/8/2009 8:51 AM (GMT -6)   
Cowboy,

There have been some good posts by wives on the subject here over the months. The general feeling of these posts, is that most all the women can accept their husbands ED, but it is the husband that can't accept it. The women still say they want to be held, kissed, hugged, and all the little acts of intitmacy that go along with it. Many a man has been helped by the patience and love that their wives offer them during their recovery time. Some men simply push it all away since they can't do the "act". This attitude really hurts the women affective by those men, because they still want to feel loved, wanted, desired, etc, even though their man can't perform "normal" sex.

We men should listen to those little whispers and warning signs. Speaking from first hand experience, there's no reason we can't make the women in our life happy, loved, and even satisified, despite the side effects of PC.

David in SC
Age: 57, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 7/08 12.3, 9/08 14.5, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 - 7/7 Positive, 40-90% Cancer, Gleason 4+3
Open RP: 11/08, Rht nerves saved, 4 days in hospt, on catheters for 63 days, 5th one out 1/09
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin
Post Surgery  PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Latest: 7/09 met 2 rad. oncl, 7/09 cath #6 - blockage, 8/9 2nd corr surgery, 8/9 cath #7 - out  38 days, 9/14/9 - met 3rd rad. oncl.agree to start radiation, mapping on 9/21/9, 9/24 - mtg with uro/surg, 9/29- pre-op, 10/1 - 3rd corr. surgery - suprapubic cath/hard dialation, 10/5 - first treatment IMRT.


cowboy bob
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 116
   Posted 10/8/2009 10:52 AM (GMT -6)   
Thank you, David. I agree, but wish for "the act" too. My wife and I did this for many years until about five years ago when she decided to stop doing it. Miss the old days for sure, and thought that having it back would also take care of the penetration issue perfectly.

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25393
   Posted 10/8/2009 10:59 AM (GMT -6)   
Bob, not trying to pry, but on your last post, you said she decided to stop doing it about five years ago. I am assuming this is before your surgery, and your ED. Did you have ED issues before you had PC, or perhaps you wife had medical issues of her own, or perhaps, and I know this is personal, perhaps there were non-sexual issues between the two of you.

If both parties are willing, it would be nice if the two of you could sit down with a professional and see if there are any remedies that aren't already on the table.

For your sake, I hope you can get back some degree of "normal" from your current ED situation. I don't discount your personal frustrations one bit, I know it is important to you, and to any other man.

David in SC
Age: 57, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 7/08 12.3, 9/08 14.5, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 - 7/7 Positive, 40-90% Cancer, Gleason 4+3
Open RP: 11/08, Rht nerves saved, 4 days in hospt, on catheters for 63 days, 5th one out 1/09
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin
Post Surgery  PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Latest: 7/09 met 2 rad. oncl, 7/09 cath #6 - blockage, 8/9 2nd corr surgery, 8/9 cath #7 - out  38 days, 9/14/9 - met 3rd rad. oncl.agree to start radiation, mapping on 9/21/9, 9/24 - mtg with uro/surg, 9/29- pre-op, 10/1 - 3rd corr. surgery - suprapubic cath/hard dialation, 10/5 - first treatment IMRT.


cowboy bob
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 116
   Posted 10/8/2009 4:08 PM (GMT -6)   
Thank you, David. Yes, five years was before my surgery and ED. Never had ED issues before, and my wife has had no medical issues. She just stopped thinking that it was an "ok" thing to do. As for non-sexual issues, no, we've always had a good relationship.

I may just continue to use the Viagra, doing the best we can, and live with it. Not really what I want to do tho' in a best case scenario.

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25393
   Posted 10/8/2009 6:14 PM (GMT -6)   
ok bob, hoped i didnt offend, wasnt trying to pry, just trying to understand the background a little bit. there are so many ways to go about the ED problem, so I hope you will find yours soon.

david in sc
Age: 57, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 7/08 12.3, 9/08 14.5, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 - 7/7 Positive, 40-90% Cancer, Gleason 4+3
Open RP: 11/08, Rht nerves saved, 4 days in hospt, on catheters for 63 days, 5th one out 1/09
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin
Post Surgery  PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Latest: 7/09 met 2 rad. oncl, 7/09 cath #6 - blockage, 8/9 2nd corr surgery, 8/9 cath #7 - out  38 days, 9/14/9 - met 3rd rad. oncl.agree to start radiation, mapping on 9/21/9, 9/24 - mtg with uro/surg, 9/29- pre-op, 10/1 - 3rd corr. surgery - suprapubic cath/hard dialation, 10/5 - first treatment IMRT.


cowboy bob
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 116
   Posted 10/9/2009 6:34 AM (GMT -6)   
Hey, that's fine David. I appreciate your concern!
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