Life insurance after PC

New Topic Post Reply Printable Version
[ << Previous Thread | Next Thread >> ]

Red Nighthawk
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 289
   Posted 11/10/2009 9:46 AM (GMT -6)   
Talk about bad timing! I am considering cashing in a universal life policy that I currently have, however that would require me to replace it with another life insurance policy to protect my wife in case I roll a nine before her. Do any of you know how expensive a new life policy would be for a PC survivor? My financial advisor looked into this for me and she discovered the company holding my universal life policy will 'consider' me for a term policy only after a health exam six months post op that shows a favorable PSA among other things. That means I'd have to wait four more months. You'd think they would be eager to make the switch from a whole life to a term. Thanks for any insight.
Age: 62
Pre-op PSA: 4.1
Gleason grade: 3+4=7, present in both lobes, at least 1.1 cm, and occupying less than 5% of prostate by volume. pT2c NX MX
No lymphatic/vascular invasion present.
Seminal vesicles and extraprostatic soft tissue free of tumor.
Inked margins are free of tumor.
High grade prostatic intraepithelial neoplasia is present
Robotic RP: Sept. 15th, 2009 1 day in hospital, cath out on 9th day
Post-op PSA: at 4 weeks --> .04 (undectable)
One pad for the first six weeks. Two pairs of underpants now just to play it safe.
Surgery: Brigham & Women's Hospital, Boston


Steve n Dallas
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2008
Total Posts : 4848
   Posted 11/10/2009 10:05 AM (GMT -6)   
There are a few threads about this...In short - it's hard for cancer survivors to get life insurance.

Age 54   - 5'11"   205lbs
Overall Heath Condition - Good
PSA - July 2007 & Jan 2008 -> 1.3
Biopsy - 03/04/08 -> Gleason 6 
06/25/08 - Da Vinci robotic laparoscopy
05/14/09  - 4th Quarter PSA -> less then .01
Surgeon - Keith A. Waguespack, M.D.


James C.
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4463
   Posted 11/10/2009 10:08 AM (GMT -6)   
Here's a recent thread on the subject:

www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=35&m=1377875
James C. Age 62
Co-Moderator- Prostate Cancer Forum
4/07 PSA 7.6, referred to Urologist, recheck 6.7
7/07 Biopsy: 3 of 16 PCa, 5% involved, left lobe, GS 3/3=6
9/07 Nerve sparing open RRP 110gms.- Path Report: GS 3+3=6 Stg. pT2c, 110gms, margins clear
24 mts: PSA's: .04 each test since surgery, Bimix .3ml PRN or Trimix .15ml PRN


Red Nighthawk
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 289
   Posted 11/10/2009 10:36 AM (GMT -6)   
Thank you for the help.

I personally think I am a much lower risk now, after surgery, than I was 5 or 6 years ago, but that's not the way insurance companies look at it I guess.
Age: 62
Pre-op PSA: 4.1
Gleason grade: 3+4=7, present in both lobes, at least 1.1 cm, and occupying less than 5% of prostate by volume. pT2c NX MX
No lymphatic/vascular invasion present.
Seminal vesicles and extraprostatic soft tissue free of tumor.
Inked margins are free of tumor.
High grade prostatic intraepithelial neoplasia is present
Robotic RP: Sept. 15th, 2009 1 day in hospital, cath out on 9th day
Post-op PSA: at 4 weeks --> .04 (undetectable)
One pad for the first six weeks. Two pairs of underpants now just to play it safe.
Surgery: Brigham & Women's Hospital, Boston


Colin45
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 216
   Posted 11/10/2009 10:39 AM (GMT -6)   
If they are the same in the USA as they are in the UK it means that they can cut the cover but they never reduce the cost so their risks are less
 
 
Age 64 From UK now in Thailand Baby boy born 2/14/2009
First PSA was showing 9.73 on 1/21/09.   on 5/7/09 PSA 9.78  Free PSA 0.83   Free:Total  PSA 0.08 
1/28/09 Biopsy carried out 12 core results show no adenocarcinoma
5/15/0924 Core biopsy results Gleason'S Grade 3+2=5
Involving approx 30% of one out of 12 cores on each side no perineural or angiolymphatic invation identified
One side PIN High Grade Bone scan clear 
Open surgery 7/27/09
Prostate Gland weighting 34 grms lost one nerve bundle
Gleason upgraded to 3+3 Tumour not close to prostatic capsule Seminal Vesicles not involved by Tumour 6 Lymph Nodes negative for Malignant cells
First PSA Nov 2009 was 0.06 Continence 99% occasional stress dribbles no ED from first day after catheter removed


Worried Guy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 3739
   Posted 11/10/2009 10:40 AM (GMT -6)   
This is off topic a bit but Life insurance saved my life.
My Doc is one of those that do not believe in general PSA screening if: there is no history of cancer in the family, no problems, non-smoker, etc. He included a paper about why he does this in with the results of my 50 year physical blood test. I was in perfect health with perfect BMI, cholesterol, and sugar.
Six months ago, my company changed life insurance providers and the one they selected required a perfunctory physical and a PSA test. Ten days later I got a notice from the new insurance company that they would not insure me because my PSA was above 4.0. It was 17! That started the ball rolling.
Even though you won't insure me, you saved my life. Thanks Metlife!
Because of you, I'm sitting here, wearing a pee pad. On the other hand, I'm sitting here!
Talk about a "Love - Hate" relationship.

Jeff

If anyone from Met Life is reading this, feel free to use me in your next commercial.)
DX Age 56. First routine PSA test on April 8th: 17.8.
May PSA: 22.6, 3 weeks later: PSA: 23.2.
Biopsy 6/10/09: 7/12 scores positive, Gleason 6=3+3. Bone scan and C/T scan negative.
RP DaVinci -7/21/2009 @ Univ of Roch Medical Center
Left nerve gone, right partial spared.
Catheter removed - 7/31/2009 Pathology report received:
Gleason 3+4=7 Tumor size: 2.5 x 1.8 cm location: both lobes and apex. No Malignancy in Seminal Vesicle, vasa deferentia, lymph nodes 0/13
Extraprostatic extension present; Perineural invasion: present, extensive
Prostate mass 56 grams. Pathologic Stage: pT3aN0MX
Post Surgery Status:
Potency - 10/31 3 months, Still no activity, nada, zip
Incontinence - 8/20 4 full pads per day
. 9/7 3-4 full pads per day (I'm going to try cutting down on fluids. Bad idea. I know.)
9/17 2 months: Still 3 pads per day.
10/31 14 weeks: Still 3 pads per day. At this rate I'll be fine in 2012.
Post Surgery PSA - 9/3 6 weeks- 0.05, 10/13 3 months- 0.04 undetectable.


Colin45
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 216
   Posted 11/10/2009 10:49 AM (GMT -6)   
Jeff I was the same but for health insurance but in the end they covered me but excluded prostate cancer and a couple of thing they did not like either but as I said about the premium stayed the same
 
 
Age 64 From UK now in Thailand Baby boy born 2/14/2009
First PSA was showing 9.73 on 1/21/09.   on 5/7/09 PSA 9.78  Free PSA 0.83   Free:Total  PSA 0.08 
1/28/09 Biopsy carried out 12 core results show no adenocarcinoma
5/15/0924 Core biopsy results Gleason'S Grade 3+2=5
Involving approx 30% of one out of 12 cores on each side no perineural or angiolymphatic invation identified
One side PIN High Grade Bone scan clear 
Open surgery 7/27/09
Prostate Gland weighting 34 grms lost one nerve bundle
Gleason upgraded to 3+3 Tumour not close to prostatic capsule Seminal Vesicles not involved by Tumour 6 Lymph Nodes negative for Malignant cells
First PSA Nov 2009 was 0.06 Continence 99% occasional stress dribbles no ED from first day after catheter removed


Zen9
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 314
   Posted 11/10/2009 10:51 AM (GMT -6)   
I've recently spent a fair amount of time looking at life insurance after PC.
 
Forget about it.
 
Zen9

Sonny3
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 2448
   Posted 11/10/2009 11:08 AM (GMT -6)   
Jeff,

Met Life can use you for the "IF IN LIFE" to stand for "Incontinent Frequently". LOL

What do ya think, will it make it on TV during the football games? Captive male audience, gotta be a bunch of the PCa brothers watching.

Sonny
61 years old
PSA 11/07 3.0
PSA 5/09 6.4
Diagnosis confirmed July 9, 2009
12 Needle Biopsy = 9 clear , 3 postive
<5%, 90%, 40%
Gleason Score (3+4) 7 in all positive cores
CT Organ Scan - negative
Nuclear Bone Scan - Negative

da Vinci 9/17/09 Dr. Mani Menon Henry Ford Medical Institute

Post Surgery Pathology:
Gleason: Changed to (4+3) = 7
Stage: T3a
Tumor Volume 12.5%
ALL NERVES SPARED
Margins: focally positive right posterior mid level
Perineural Invasion: present
Seminal Invasion: absent
Venous Invasion: absent
Angiolymphatic Invasion: absent
Left Internal iliac lymph node: reveals zero
Right Internal lymph node: reveals zero


lifeguyd
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 686
   Posted 11/10/2009 11:09 AM (GMT -6)   
Red Nighthawk said...
Thank you for the help.

I personally think I am a much lower risk now, after surgery, than I was 5 or 6 years ago, but that's not the way insurance companies look at it I guess.

I recently had a term policy expire and tried to buy a new policy.  After a complete physical, I was offered a plan that was roughly DOUBLE what I had been paying before. I challenged TransAmerica's offer and they said that they would cut it back 10% after 5 more years. They said my gleason 8 was the number that put me in a riskier class.  I declined to take the policy and I am still looking.
 
The bottom line is that even if you have excellent health otherwise the 'bean counters' penalize you if you have had PCa.  I argued that statistically I was less likely to die than a peer who had never been diagnosed.  My arguements fell on deaf ears.  So, I can get insurance, but at about $3600 a year per 100k.


PSA up to 4.7 July 2006 , nodule noted during DRE
Biopsy 10/16/06 ,stageT2A
Very Aggressive Gleason 4+4=8  right side
DaVinci Surgery  January 2007
Post op confirms gleason 4+4=8 with no extension or invasion
no long term continence problems
Post surgery PSA continues to be "undetectable"
One side nerves spared
Bi-Mix for ED 
born in 1941


Worried Guy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 3739
   Posted 11/10/2009 11:51 AM (GMT -6)   
Guys.
We really can't blame the insurance companies. They are in it for the money and their best interests.
Come to think of it, when we buy insurance, aren't we the ones betting against ourselves? "Gee, if I die tomorrow my wife will collect a pile." We are betting on the wrong side of the equation.
Let's agree to keep our money and invest in something like the stock market, bonds or CDs. That's a lot less risky than betting on our PSAs, hormone therapy, proton beams, and various ectomies.

Sonny, And for the ad we can have a guy throwing a football into a toilet. Covers two issues in one throw .
Jeff
DX Age 56. First routine PSA test on April 8th: 17.8.
May PSA: 22.6, 3 weeks later: PSA: 23.2.
Biopsy 6/10/09: 7/12 scores positive, Gleason 6=3+3. Bone scan and C/T scan negative.
RP DaVinci -7/21/2009 @ Univ of Roch Medical Center
Left nerve gone, right partial spared.
Catheter removed - 7/31/2009 Pathology report received:
Gleason 3+4=7 Tumor size: 2.5 x 1.8 cm location: both lobes and apex. No Malignancy in Seminal Vesicle, vasa deferentia, lymph nodes 0/13
Extraprostatic extension present; Perineural invasion: present, extensive
Prostate mass 56 grams. Pathologic Stage: pT3aN0MX
Post Surgery Status:
Potency - 10/31 3 months, Still no activity, nada, zip
Incontinence - 8/20 4 full pads per day
. 9/7 3-4 full pads per day (I'm going to try cutting down on fluids. Bad idea. I know.)
9/17 2 months: Still 3 pads per day.
10/31 14 weeks: Still 3 pads per day. At this rate I'll be fine in 2012.
Post Surgery PSA - 9/3 6 weeks- 0.05, 10/13 3 months- 0.04 undetectable.


Opa N
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 150
   Posted 11/10/2009 12:05 PM (GMT -6)   
Red,
I would say shop around, and if you find something, buy before geting rid of the universal policy. And, instead of cashing it in, look to selling the policy. There are investors out there who willoffer you a lump sum buyout of your policy, at amounts much higher than the cash value of the policy. They become the owner and beneficiary, with you as the insured. I get about 3 offers by mail each year on my term policy.
Roger

 Age 67 at diagnosis. Treated for coronary artery disease (CAD) since 1998, and under control with medications.

2/6/09              Routine physical, with DRE and PSA Test. PSA 4.02. Referred to Uro

4/20/09            TRUS  w/needle biopsy

4/23/09            Diagnosis PCa with Gleason 4+3 in 2/2 cores, Gleason 3+3 in 5/10 cores.

                        CT scan and Bone Scan both negative. Stage T2C.

8/27/09            DaVinci RP at WakeMed Cary NC with Dr. Tortora. Discharged 8/28.

9/8/09              Catheder removed. Path post-surgery confirms PCa, with Gleason 3+3 with scattering of 4. Positive margins in L & R posterior, R and L seminal vesicles, with perineural invasion.  Stage pT3b.

9/30/09            PSA Post-Op <0.01. Met w/Uro/Surgeon to review surgery and path report. Referred to Prostate Oncologist and Radiation Oncologist. Appointments set for 10/8.

10/8/09            Met w/ both oncologists. Adjuvant Combination Therapy to begin ASAP.

10/21/09          First Lupron injection. 30 mg dose (4 month)

11/2/09            PSA 2-month <0.01. Cystoscope w/calibration and dilation to remove scar tissue from urethra. Big relief.

 

Initial incontinence pretty bad, starting w/6 Depends pants/day. Gradually getting better, with dramatic reduction in leakage around 9/20. Currently on 1 pad during the day and one at night (for security). Actually totally dry at night.

 

 

 


Worried Guy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 3739
   Posted 11/10/2009 12:44 PM (GMT -6)   
Opa,
Yikes ! This sounds like a few years back when AIDS patients were selling their life insurance policies to third party investors. Talk about betting against yourself. I guess if you have no partners or progeny then you can figure there's no point to having it and you might as well take what you can while you're still sucking air.

I'm keeping my money. I figure insurance companies have lots of data and plenty of whiz-kids figuring odds. If they don't want me, who am I to disagree?
Jeff

If anyone without partner or progeny, plans to kick off in the next month or so, how about we buy your policy and donate the proceeds to the Healing Well site when you check out. I figure they could always use a server upgrade and the moderators certainly deserve a raise! ;-)
----I'm kidding, in case you couldn't tell. ----

Red Nighthawk
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 289
   Posted 11/10/2009 5:16 PM (GMT -6)   
Opa, I don't know about having a perfect stranger be the benificiary if I should die. Is that really a good idea? Btw, I live near Boston and Providence, if you get my drift.

Even if the results of my post have been kind of depressing, I thank you guys for responding.

I really feal that I am healthier now than I was 5 or 6 years ago. Then, I had this little time bomb growing without me even having a clue. Now that little b.st.rd is long gone, but unfortunately, once stained with the cancer label, we are labeled as dead man walking.

I'm going to talk to a guy from Select.quote and see what he has to offer. No way will I pay $3,600 per 100K.

I won't cancel or cash in the universal life until I have something else in place.

Thanks again for all the input.
Age: 62
Pre-op PSA: 4.1
Gleason grade: 3+4=7, present in both lobes, at least 1.1 cm, and occupying less than 5% of prostate by volume. pT2c NX MX
No lymphatic/vascular invasion present.
Seminal vesicles and extraprostatic soft tissue free of tumor.
Inked margins are free of tumor.
High grade prostatic intraepithelial neoplasia is present
Robotic RP: Sept. 15th, 2009 1 day in hospital, cath out on 9th day
Post-op PSA: at 4 weeks --> .04 (undetectable)
One pad for the first six weeks. Two pairs of underpants now just to play it safe.
Surgery: Brigham & Women's Hospital, Boston


goodlife
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 2692
   Posted 11/10/2009 5:29 PM (GMT -6)   
Actually, depending on the length of the policy, it may not be a bad investment. If you lived 27 years you would break even. Anything less than that and you are making money.
Age 58, PSA 4.47 Biopsy - 2/12 cores , Gleason 4 + 5 = 9
Da Vinci, Cleveland Clinic  4/14/09   Nerves spared, but carved up a little.
0/23 lymph nodes involved  pT3a NO MX
Catheter and 2 stints in ureters for 2 weeks .
Neg Margins, bladder neck negative
Living the Good Life, cancer free  6 week PSA  <.03
3 month PSA <.01 (different lab)
5 month PSA <.03 (undetectable)
6 Month PSA <.01
1 pad a day, no progress on ED.  Trimix injections


Worried Guy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 3739
   Posted 11/10/2009 6:01 PM (GMT -6)   
Hey Goodlife and Red ,
I just ran a short Excel program to see where the break even point is. I considered 4 cases.
I assumed you put in $3600 at the beginning of the year and money was worth 3%, 4%, 5%, and an inflationary 10% in a safe CD. (I included 10% because who knows what will happen in 5-10 years when gasoline is $8.00 per gallon.
Rate Break even
3%......20.5 yrs
4%......18.1 yrs
5%......16.8 yrs
10%....13.0 yrs
Add the years to your age and that's your break even croak date. If you get the inusrance and die before that date- you "win" ! If you live longer, you lose.
If you put the money in your own bank account CD and live longer than the croak date- you win! Really! If you die before then you (or your family) lose.

The old cowboys had it right. They would keep a $5 bill rolled up in their revolver's empty chamber under the hammer to pay for their burial - if required. That was their life insurance.
Unless you don't have enough for your burial and basic bills who needs more?
I am not a "financial consultant" so you can ignore my rant. However, I am an engineer, and I know math and the power of compounding interest. I know which way I would vote.

Good luck. - Unless you are betting against a long life then, Worst of luck to you. ;-)
(I mean that in a nice way, you understand)
Jeff

Post Edited (Worried Guy) : 11/10/2009 4:10:33 PM (GMT-7)


Worried Guy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 3739
   Posted 11/10/2009 6:55 PM (GMT -6)   
Guys,
I updated the program a little bit. If you want to calculate it on your own just email me and I'll send it to you. All you have to do is type in the interest rate and the yearly payment and it will calculate the cash year end value for up to 22 years.
Disclaimer so I don't go to prison: It's just math - not investment advice.
I made it an Excel file in .xls format. 1997-2003 compatible.
Enjoy,
Jeff

Mbshine
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2008
Total Posts : 67
   Posted 11/10/2009 7:16 PM (GMT -6)   
 
   I am a financiql planner and dont think this forum should be used for personal biz, so ask aound and shop around..
 
 
we have found cancer survivors with "no recurrence" or ovenight hospitalizations for any reason for two years are rated pretty fiarly....five years even better....
 
 
start askingg questions and term is your basic progection and cheapest outlay..
 
 
mbshine
 
survivor

lifeguyd
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 686
   Posted 11/10/2009 10:48 PM (GMT -6)   
goodlife said...
Actually, depending on the length of the policy, it may not be a bad investment. If you lived 27 years you would break even. Anything less than that and you are making money.

Actually, I have had term insurance in place for years as lower priced mortgage insurance.  However the older I get the less of a bargain it becomes.  After my Pca surgery it has become unaffordable despite the fact that I am a better risk now than I was a few years ago.  How do you figure that?
PSA up to 4.7 July 2006 , nodule noted during DRE
Biopsy 10/16/06 ,stageT2A
Very Aggressive Gleason 4+4=8  right side
DaVinci Surgery  January 2007
Post op confirms gleason 4+4=8 with no extension or invasion
no long term continence problems
Post surgery PSA continues to be "undetectable"
One side nerves spared
Bi-Mix for ED 
born in 1941


Mavica
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2008
Total Posts : 407
   Posted 11/10/2009 11:19 PM (GMT -6)   
I'm fortunate to still be working and covered by a group life insurance policy from which I cannot be excluded.  I have additional insurance through my employer and if I want to increase the amount I think I'll be required to declare my cancer surgery and a two-year exclusionary period (for a death benefit claim made because of death due to prostate cancer) applies - if I've read the policy correctly.  Friends of mine have suffered from cancer and heart surgery and I believe new policies they've considered require a two or more year exclusionary period.  If you're eligible for any group coverage, that may be the best option available.

Age:  60 (58 at diagnosis - June, 2008)

April '08 PSA 4.8 ("free PSA" 7.9), up from 3.5 year prior

June '08 had biopsy, 2 days later told results positive but in less than 1% of sample

Gleason's 3+3=6

Developed sepsis 2 days post-biopsy, seriously ill in hospital for 3 days

Dr. recommended robotic removal using da Vinci

Surgery 9/10/08

Northwestern Memorial Hospital, Chicago, IL

Dr. Robert Nadler, Urologist/Surgeon

Post-op Gleason's:  3+3, Tertiary 4

Margins:  Free

Bladder & Urethral:  Free

Seminal vesicles:  Not involved

Lymphatic/Vascular Invasion:  Not involved

Tumor:  T2c; Location:  Bilateral; Volume:  20%

Catheter:  Removed 12-days after surgery

Incontinent:  Yes (1/2 light pads per day)

Combination of Cialis and MUSE (alprostadil) three times weekly started 9-27-08

Returned to work 9-29-08 (18-19 days post-op)

PSA test result, post-op, 10/08: 0.0; 12/08: 0.0; 4/09: 0.0; 9/09: 0.0

 


Red Nighthawk
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 289
   Posted 11/11/2009 12:07 PM (GMT -6)   
Great responses! Thanks to all.

Just to clarify, I am not trying to 'take advantage' of my PC, which is now long gone, by enriching my beneficiaries through insurance. I am trying to figure out a way to protect my wife (financially) with term insurance, so I can cash in a universal (whole) life policy and take the proceeds and pay off all my kid's college loans, which are now killing us. Sorry for being so off topic with this, but it is kind of related. The stress of having these huge loans is not good for me and my recovery, and that is why I posted here instead of some financial board someplace. Your input so far has been incredible and I thank you all.
Age: 62
Pre-op PSA: 4.1
Gleason grade: 3+4=7, present in both lobes, at least 1.1 cm, and occupying less than 5% of prostate by volume. pT2c NX MX
No lymphatic/vascular invasion present.
Seminal vesicles and extraprostatic soft tissue free of tumor.
Inked margins are free of tumor.
High grade prostatic intraepithelial neoplasia is present
Robotic RP: Sept. 15th, 2009 1 day in hospital, cath out on 9th day
Post-op PSA: at 4 weeks --> .04 (undetectable)
One pad for the first six weeks. Two pairs of underpants now just to play it safe.
Surgery: Brigham & Women's Hospital, Boston

New Topic Post Reply Printable Version
Forum Information
Currently it is Thursday, September 20, 2018 1:41 AM (GMT -6)
There are a total of 3,004,988 posts in 329,186 threads.
View Active Threads


Who's Online
This forum has 161755 registered members. Please welcome our newest member, SwollenColon93.
226 Guest(s), 2 Registered Member(s) are currently online.  Details
Girlie, F8