Major incontinence and minor incontinence

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cocrgolfer
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 171
   Posted 11/18/2009 9:31 AM (GMT -6)   
This was a response to a question I asked on the web site identified by Modelshipwright a few days ago. Their results say only 28% of patients in the study of over 1000 subjects were LFPF after 24 mos. However, another 40% were pad free with an occasional leak, and 22% were using just a light pad. Now we are in the 90% range which to me at least is somewhat encouraging.


Steve Ritchey, on November 18th, 2009 at 7:31 am Said:
I believe the current thinking is that if there is no improvement in incontinence after a year, and some sort of sling or valve implant can then be considered. Does this study imply that there can be significant improvement between 12 and 24 months?

Sitemaster, on November 18th, 2009 at 8:54 am Said:
I think we need to distinguish between serious incontinence that might actually need treatment and minor incontinence that most would consider to be an irritation bordering on annoying at times.

If there is still serious inability to control one’s urinary function a year after treatment, then it is unlikeey there is going to be significant improvement. By contrast, minor incontinence that has just taken longer than average to recover to something approaching normality may continue to improve for as much as 2 years. But at the end of the day there are exceptions to every “rule.” Humans have a profound ability to demonstrate their individuality!

Good luck to us all, Steve

Worried Guy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 3732
   Posted 11/18/2009 1:42 PM (GMT -6)   
If you're fussy or sqeemish STOP READING THIS NOW!
You've been warned... OK, I have your implied consent...

I weigh my used, filled pads on the Mettler balance my wife keeps in the kitchen. (But not when she is around.)
I know exactly how much I leak and how much I deposit in the toilet. Typically, I leak out 450 ml per day and deposit about 1000 per day. Since a pad will hold 150 ml before leaking, that comes to 3 pads per day .
I think incontinence should be measured in ml per day. None of this fuzzy stuff. When you get to 5 per day -a couple of dribbles - that is continent. It means I don't need a pad or can get away with a ladies Carefree mini pad.
By measuring precisely, I can tell if I am, or am not, improving.
Jeff
(I'd better go wash the pan off now before she gets home.)
DX Age 56. First routine PSA test on April 8th: 17.8.
May PSA: 22.6, 3 weeks later: PSA: 23.2.
Biopsy 6/10/09: 7/12 scores positive, Gleason 6=3+3. Bone scan and C/T scan negative.
RP DaVinci -7/21/2009 @ Univ of Roch Medical Center
Left nerve gone, right partial spared.
Catheter removed - 7/31/2009 Pathology report received:
Gleason 3+4=7 Tumor size: 2.5 x 1.8 cm location: both lobes and apex. No Malignancy in Seminal Vesicle, vasa deferentia, lymph nodes 0/13
Extraprostatic extension present; Perineural invasion: present, extensive
Prostate mass 56 grams. Pathologic Stage: pT3aN0MX
Post Surgery Status:
Potency - 10/31 3 months, Still no activity, nada, zip
Incontinence - 8/20 4 full pads per day
. 9/7 3-4 full pads per day (I'm going to try cutting down on fluids. Bad idea. I know.)
9/27 2 months: Still 3 pads per day.
11/14 4 month: Still 3 pads per day. 420ml/day, 91 um leak. At this rate I'll be fine in 2012.
Post Surgery PSA - 9/3 6 weeks- 0.05, 10/13 3 months- 0.04 undetectable.

Post Edited (Worried Guy) : 11/18/2009 3:08:14 PM (GMT-7)


geezer99
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 990
   Posted 11/18/2009 2:45 PM (GMT -6)   
My first response to this post was to jump up and run to the bathroom.

I would agree that if you are down to one light pad per day you are into the region where incontinence does not affect your quality of life and so it probably should not count. Childbirth leaves many women at this level and nobody seems to think it is worth studying, much less treating.

Brother Jeff (worried guy) is, of course, right about the proper way to do the measurement, but when I mentioned it to my wife she suggested that I sleep in the garage. We must not become so enchanted with engineering that we ignore sociology.
Age at diagnosis 66, PSA 5.5
Biopsy 12/08 12 cores, 8 positive
Gleason 3+4=7
CAT scan, Bone scan 1/09 both negative.

Robotic surgery 03/03/09 Catheter Out 03/08/09
Pathology: Lymph nodes & Seminal vesicles negative
Margins positive, Capsular penetration extensive Gleason 4+3=7
6 weeks: 1 pad/day, 1 pad/night -- mostly dry at night.
10 weeks: no pad at night -- slight leakage day/1 pad.
3 mo. PSA 0.0 - now light pads
6 mo. PSA 0.00 -- 1 light pad/day


goodlife
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 2691
   Posted 11/18/2009 4:04 PM (GMT -6)   
Hey Jeff,

Could I borrow your Mettler for a few weeks ?

It may improve your home life !
Age 58, PSA 4.47 Biopsy - 2/12 cores , Gleason 4 + 5 = 9
Da Vinci, Cleveland Clinic  4/14/09   Nerves spared, but carved up a little.
0/23 lymph nodes involved  pT3a NO MX
Catheter and 2 stints in ureters for 2 weeks .
Neg Margins, bladder neck negative
Living the Good Life, cancer free  6 week PSA  <.03
3 month PSA <.01 (different lab)
5 month PSA <.03 (undetectable)
6 Month PSA <.01
1 pad a day, no progress on ED.  Trimix injections


Worried Guy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 3732
   Posted 11/18/2009 4:14 PM (GMT -6)   
Hey Dick,
It's yours - as long as you make sure wash off the pan! :-)
Jeff
DX Age 56. First routine PSA test on April 8th: 17.8.
May PSA: 22.6, 3 weeks later: PSA: 23.2.
Biopsy 6/10/09: 7/12 scores positive, Gleason 6=3+3. Bone scan and C/T scan negative.
RP DaVinci -7/21/2009 @ Univ of Roch Medical Center
Left nerve gone, right partial spared.
Catheter removed - 7/31/2009 Pathology report received:
Gleason 3+4=7 Tumor size: 2.5 x 1.8 cm location: both lobes and apex. No Malignancy in Seminal Vesicle, vasa deferentia, lymph nodes 0/13
Extraprostatic extension present; Perineural invasion: present, extensive
Prostate mass 56 grams. Pathologic Stage: pT3aN0MX
Post Surgery Status:
Potency - 10/31 3 months, Still no activity, nada, zip
Incontinence - 8/20 4 full pads per day
. 9/7 3-4 full pads per day (I'm going to try cutting down on fluids. Bad idea. I know.)
9/27 2 months: Still 3 pads per day.
11/14 4 month: Still 3 pads per day. 420ml/day, 91 um leak. At this rate I'll be fine in 2012.
Post Surgery PSA - 9/3 6 weeks- 0.05, 10/13 3 months- 0.04 undetectable.

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