PSA Question...

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gibson00
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Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 212
   Posted 11/19/2009 2:22 PM (GMT -6)   
Edited//

Post Edited (gibson00) : 11/30/2009 5:38:10 AM (GMT-7)


compiler
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Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 7211
   Posted 11/19/2009 2:50 PM (GMT -6)   
Sadly, both are possible. Let's hope it is the inflamed prostate. I am in a very similar situation (suddenly rising PSA but also with prostatitis symptoms). I am awaiting results of a test that will determine if a biopsy is in order.

This waiting thing really sucks-- it wears and grates on you!

Mel
PSA-- 3/08--2.90;  8/09--4.01; 11/09--4.19 (Free PSA 24%), this after 45 days on cipro!
 
History of BPH/prostatitis.
 
Awaiting results of my PCA-3 test which will determine whether a biopsy is in my immediate future


LV-TX
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Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 966
   Posted 11/19/2009 4:48 PM (GMT -6)   
gibson...sounds like he had the TURP to open things up a bit from inside the prostate usually due to enlarged prostate BHP. There are drugs that he may have taken that could have resulted in lower than normal psa readings. But to answer your question it would be unusual to go from a 1 to a 9 in three months...but not out of the realm of possibility expecially if he was taken certain drugs for the urinary blockage before the procedure. He may have already had an elevated psa but was reading lower due to the drugs to begin with.

Unfortunately, he will have to wait for the results and maybe it will be nothing, but I would encourage you to read and do some searching on the various treatment options ahead of time. Not to alarm you, just to be knowledgable to ask the right questions when you get the results back.

Best of luck and keep us informed.
You are beating back cancer, so hold your head up with dignity
 
Les
 
Age 58 at Diagnosis
Oct 2006 - PSA 2.6 - DRE Normal
May 2008 - PSA 4.6 - DRE Normal / TRUS normal
July 2008 - Biopsy 4 of 12 Positive 5 - 30% Involved Bilateral w/PNI - Gleason (3+3)6 Stage T1C
Robotic Surgery Sept 18, 2008
Pathology October 1, 2008 - Gleason 7 (3+4) Staged pT2c NO MX - Gland 50 cc
Seminal Vesicles and Lymph Nodes clear
Positive Margins Right Posterior Lobe
PSA 5 week Oct 2008 <.05
                   3 month Jan 2009 .06
                   6 month Apr 2009 .06
                   9 month Jul  2009 .08
                 12 month Oct 2009 .09 


gibson00
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 212
   Posted 11/19/2009 5:36 PM (GMT -6)   
Thx for the replies. Here in Canada we are pretty limited to whatever doctor is available, what the doctor decides for treatments....and it often takes a long time...
We simply don't get to shop around for treatments here.

Post Edited (gibson00) : 11/19/2009 3:57:52 PM (GMT-7)


geezer99
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Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 990
   Posted 11/19/2009 9:34 PM (GMT -6)   
gibson
first know that you are in a caring community. We have all known your fear and uncertainty and we are here for you. As others have said you now have that fearful wait for the biopsy results. But no matter what, a PSA of 12 is high but not extreme and PCa is a very treatable cancer if that is what it comes to.

Your father is fortunate to have you at his side. Look at the permanent links at the top of the page for some good resources -- especially books. The issue with PC is that there are many good treatments with good outcomes.

We are glad that you found us and we encourage you to use us for information and support.
Age at diagnosis 66, PSA 5.5
Biopsy 12/08 12 cores, 8 positive
Gleason 3+4=7
CAT scan, Bone scan 1/09 both negative.

Robotic surgery 03/03/09 Catheter Out 03/08/09
Pathology: Lymph nodes & Seminal vesicles negative
Margins positive, Capsular penetration extensive Gleason 4+3=7
6 weeks: 1 pad/day, 1 pad/night -- mostly dry at night.
10 weeks: no pad at night -- slight leakage day/1 pad.
3 mo. PSA 0.0 - now light pads
6 mo. PSA 0.00 -- 1 light pad/day


gibson00
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 212
   Posted 11/23/2009 12:14 PM (GMT -6)   
Edited//

Post Edited (gibson00) : 11/30/2009 5:38:38 AM (GMT-7)


gibson00
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 212
   Posted 11/25/2009 7:55 AM (GMT -6)   
Edited//

Post Edited (gibson00) : 11/30/2009 5:38:48 AM (GMT-7)


gibson00
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 212
   Posted 11/26/2009 5:08 PM (GMT -6)   
Edited//

Post Edited (gibson00) : 11/30/2009 5:39:03 AM (GMT-7)


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 11/26/2009 5:15 PM (GMT -6)   
Hello, that is definitely not good news, as if he has a Gleason of 10, that's as high as it gets. Perhaps you can add a signature to the bottom of your future posts, so we can see what is going on.

Despite that news, there are treatments and things that still can be done. Never give up hope, and please, keep us closely posted. We truly care.

David in SC
Age: 57, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 7/08 12.3, 9/08 14.5, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 - 7/7 Positive, 40-90% Cancer, Gleason 4+3
Open RP: 11/08, Rht nerves saved, 4 days in hospt, on catheters for 63 days, 5th one out 1/09
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin
Incontinence:  1 Month     ED:  Non issue at any point post surgery
Post Surgery  PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Latest: 7/9 met 2 rad. oncl, 7/9 cath #6 - blockage, 8/9 2nd corr surgery, 8/9 cath #7 out  38 days, 9/9 - met 3rd rad. oncl., mapped  9/9, 10/1 - 3rd corr. surgery - SP cath/hard dialation, 10/5 - began IMRT SRT - 39 sess/72 gys cath #8 33 days, 11/2- SP Cath #9 in place


Worried Guy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 3732
   Posted 11/26/2009 5:26 PM (GMT -6)   
Hey Gibson,
You got our attention with the news of Gleason 10. I won't sugar coat it - that is a big deal.
There are people on this site more qualified than I who can help. I can tell you that while styles and personalities differ, every person here wants to help.

Also, be advised that there is a very strong genetic component to PCa. If you have not done so already you should get your own PSA checked.

Your father is a lucky man to have such an advocate. I wish you good luck in your new journey.
Jeff
DX Age 56. First routine PSA test on April 8th: 17.8.
May PSA: 22.6, 3 weeks later: PSA: 23.2.
Biopsy 6/10/09: 7/12 scores positive, Gleason 6=3+3. Bone scan and C/T scan negative.
RP DaVinci -7/21/2009 @ Univ of Roch Medical Center
Left nerve gone, right partial spared.
Catheter removed - 7/31/2009 Pathology report received:
Gleason 3+4=7 Tumor size: 2.5 x 1.8 cm location: both lobes and apex. No Malignancy in Seminal Vesicle, vasa deferentia, lymph nodes 0/13
Extraprostatic extension present; Perineural invasion: present, extensive
Prostate mass 56 grams. Pathologic Stage: pT3aN0MX
Post Surgery Status:
Potency - 10/31 3 months, Still no activity, nada, zip
Incontinence - 8/20 4 full pads per day
. 9/7 3-4 full pads per day (I'm going to try cutting down on fluids. Bad idea. I know.)
9/27 2 months: Still 3 pads per day.
11/14 4 month: Still 3 pads per day. 420ml/day, 91 um leak. At this rate I'll be fine in 2012.
Post Surgery PSA - 9/3 6 weeks- 0.05, 10/13 3 months- 0.04 undetectable.


gibson00
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 212
   Posted 11/26/2009 5:43 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks. I think I'll go in to see my doctor to ask about when I should be tested..

Post Edited (gibson00) : 11/30/2009 5:39:21 AM (GMT-7)


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 11/26/2009 5:58 PM (GMT -6)   
With your dad now being dx with a Gleason 10, I would go ahead and get a PSA on yourself. At least it will give you a base line to compare to in the future. Just because he has it, doesn't mean you ever will, but it can run in families.

My sons, ages 26 and 32 agreed to be tested at 35, for my peace of mind if nothing else.

Good luck to the both of you
Age: 57, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 7/08 12.3, 9/08 14.5, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 - 7/7 Positive, 40-90% Cancer, Gleason 4+3
Open RP: 11/08, Rht nerves saved, 4 days in hospt, on catheters for 63 days, 5th one out 1/09
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin
Incontinence:  1 Month     ED:  Non issue at any point post surgery
Post Surgery  PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Latest: 7/9 met 2 rad. oncl, 7/9 cath #6 - blockage, 8/9 2nd corr surgery, 8/9 cath #7 out  38 days, 9/9 - met 3rd rad. oncl., mapped  9/9, 10/1 - 3rd corr. surgery - SP cath/hard dialation, 10/5 - began IMRT SRT - 39 sess/72 gys cath #8 33 days, 11/2- SP Cath #9 in place


gibson00
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 212
   Posted 11/26/2009 7:15 PM (GMT -6)   
Sorry if this is a dumb question, but if it is just a blood test, why are people reluctant to get it??

goodlife
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 2691
   Posted 11/26/2009 7:31 PM (GMT -6)   
Most 35 to 40 year olds feel pretty invincible. They also really don't want to even think about something that is pereived to be an old man's disease. Besides that, to some, ignorance is bliss.
Age 58, PSA 4.47 Biopsy - 2/12 cores , Gleason 4 + 5 = 9
Da Vinci, Cleveland Clinic  4/14/09   Nerves spared, but carved up a little.
0/23 lymph nodes involved  pT3a NO MX
Catheter and 2 stints in ureters for 2 weeks .
Neg Margins, bladder neck negative
Living the Good Life, cancer free  6 week PSA  <.03
3 month PSA <.01 (different lab)
5 month PSA <.03 (undetectable)
6 Month PSA <.01
1 pad a day, no progress on ED.  Trimix injections


Cajun Jeff
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 4108
   Posted 11/26/2009 7:42 PM (GMT -6)   
Gibson, My son had his first PSA this year at my request. He is 32 years old. His Dr agreed that he needed a base line due to the fact that we had a long history of PC in my family.

Jeff T
Cajun Country
Jeff T Age 57

9/08 PSA 5.4, referred to Urologist
9/08 Biopsy: GS 3/4=7
10/08 Nerve sparing open RRP- Path Report: GS 3+3=7 Stg. pT2c, margins clear
3 mts: PSA .05 undetectable

10th month PSA <0.01
1year psa <0.01
ED- 5 mg Cialis daily, pump daily, going to try MUSE next. Next step injections.


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 11/26/2009 7:47 PM (GMT -6)   
Because to some people, what you don't know won't kill you ,but with any type of cancer, that is foolish thinking
Age: 57, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 7/08 12.3, 9/08 14.5, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 - 7/7 Positive, 40-90% Cancer, Gleason 4+3
Open RP: 11/08, Rht nerves saved, 4 days in hospt, on catheters for 63 days, 5th one out 1/09
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin
Incontinence:  1 Month     ED:  Non issue at any point post surgery
Post Surgery  PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Latest: 7/9 met 2 rad. oncl, 7/9 cath #6 - blockage, 8/9 2nd corr surgery, 8/9 cath #7 out  38 days, 9/9 - met 3rd rad. oncl., mapped  9/9, 10/1 - 3rd corr. surgery - SP cath/hard dialation, 10/5 - began IMRT SRT - 39 sess/72 gys cath #8 33 days, 11/2- SP Cath #9 in place


BillyMac
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 1858
   Posted 11/26/2009 9:00 PM (GMT -6)   
Gibson,
Although the news of a Gleason 10 is not the best of news to receive there is still quite a lot than can be done. You may feel a little more easy about the future and gain a little understanding of what the future holds re. treatment by reading some of the Gleason 9 and 10 stories on the YANA site. Nothing like reading the stories of fellas that have traveled the same road. You can find them here:

http://www.yananow.net/Chart-Gleasonu6.htm#8

Bill
1/05 PSA----2.9 3/06-----3.2 3/07-------4.1 5/07------3.9 All negative DREs
Aged 59 when diagnosed
Biopsy 6/07
4 of 10 cores positive for Adenocarcinoma-------bummer!
Core 1 <5%, core 2----50%, core 3----60%, core 4----50%
Biopsy Pathologist's comment:
Gleason 4+3=7 (80% grade 4) Stage T2c
Neither extracapsular nor perineural invasion is identified
CT scan and Bone scan show no evidence of metastases
Da Vinci RP Aug 10th 2007
Post-op pathology:
Positive for perineural invasion and 1 small focal extension
Negative at surgical margins, negative node and negative vesicle involvement
Some 4+4=8 identified ........upgraded to Gleason 8
PSA Oct 07 <0.1 undetectable
PSA Jan 08 <0.1 undetectable
PSA April 08 <0.001 undetectable (disregarded due to lab "misreporting")
PSA August 08 <0.001 undetectable (disregarded due to lab "misreporting")
Post-op pathology rechecked by new lab:
Gleason downgraded to 4+3=7
Focal extension comprised of grade 3 cells
PSA September 08 <0.01 (new lab)
PSA February 09 <0.01
PSA August 09 (2 year mark), <0.01

My Journey: www.yananow.net/Mentors/BillM2.htm

Post Edited (BillyMac) : 11/27/2009 4:44:32 AM (GMT-7)


gibson00
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 212
   Posted 11/27/2009 8:51 AM (GMT -6)   
Billymac - thanks, yeah I found that site yesterday afternoon and read a lot of the stories from the people with Gleason 9's and 10's..

Post Edited (gibson00) : 11/30/2009 5:39:40 AM (GMT-7)


English Alf
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Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 2216
   Posted 11/27/2009 10:48 AM (GMT -6)   
Gibson


Firsly welcome! And welcome indirectly to your dad.



PSA worries are not about needles and stuff on the whole.

The PSA test is just a sort of forecast, an indication of what might be happening inside your body, it does not on its own say whether you have cancer.



When the PSA was first developed I gather that someone decided that a PSA level of about 2 was the threshold between "Good and Bad" and it is because such a threshold exists that guys can be reluctant to get the test. The drawback is thus that you have a test and then worry about what the result will be - "Am I above or below the pass mark?" - and then you worry about what it is, and then worry about what the next one is going to be and so on. So you need to go in with your eyes open and an ability to cope with what may prove to be a lot of unknowns.

It is the combination of PSA, and changes to PSA over time (velocity) plus DREs and biospy (from which they should be able to give you a Gleason Score) that give the accurate picture.



And mucking about with the prostate (TURP, DRE, biospy ) defintely pushes up the PSA - even lots of sex before the test can raise it a little. (My PSA level three weeks before before my biopsy was 8.6 and the week after it was 13.6. and I won't repeat what my second urologist's comment was about the first urologist having wasted time and money sending me for a PSA test so soon after a 12 needle biospy!)



I actually feel that I was in a way fortunate to get the bad news straight away, though it's a bit hard to explain what I mean.

I had never heard of the PSA test when I was offered one. I had not researched it when I found out that my level was high, so ended up having the biopsy before I had had much time to worry about that either, by which time the PSA level was almost irrelevant.

So what I'm saying is that I think that I might not in fact have liked a lower, but raised, PSA so much if the biopsy had been negatiove too, as that would then merely have had me heading nervously into a longer period of worrying. It's sort of the difference between a very vague and undefined worrying about what might be wrong compared to worrying about what is actually wrong, because then you have a nettle to grasp and can turn your thoughts to dealing with it. I found it not very worrying to research PCa when I knew I had it.



Now I am indeed worrying about my PSA level of course, as it should be "zero" after surgery and it isn't. But the guys here forum have been telling me to be positive etc.



Alfred

Swimom
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 1732
   Posted 11/27/2009 11:54 AM (GMT -6)   
gibson00 said...
Sorry if this is a dumb question, but if it is just a blood test, why are people reluctant to get it??
 
 
Because we all hate bad news, ignorance is bliss, what we don't know won't hurt us....Must be a hundred usual excuses. None are good but, people fear the unknowns of a cancer diagnosis.

 Hilarem datorum diligit Deus


gibson00
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 212
   Posted 11/28/2009 8:04 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi all, another quick question...

He has now had two TURP operations (about 5 days between them), and was still unable to pee when they took the catheter out the day after the second one. So they put it back in for now. I think the surgeon said he thinks that the reason he still cannot pee may be due to the tissue changes from the cancer...
Is that possible? I thought if they removed enough tissue via the TURP surgeries, that he would be able to...
Any suggestions? I think the surgeon mentioned the possibility of a permanent type of catheter through his abdomen??? Why wouldn't they just remove the prostate??
Frustrating...

gibson00
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 212
   Posted 12/10/2009 1:24 PM (GMT -6)   
Wanted to give another update...
Tried taking cath out, but could not pee properly, and after two trips to the ER, they had to re-cath. When they did the catheter again, they had a lot of trouble getting it in, which I guess means they couldn't get it into the Prostate (or bladder sphincter??), but eventually got a very thin catheter in (they were almost ready to put a needle into his bladder to empty it, as he had 1100 ml)..

They did a scope today to see if they could see anything, figure out why after two TURPs he can't pee, but they said they saw nothing abnormal, and decided to keep him cathed for 2 more weeks, and switched him from Detrol to Ditropan.
Have to talk to my dad again tonight...he said 'normal', but not sure if he asked why then is it so tight that they have trouble getting a cath in.
Could it be the bladder sphincter causing the issue???
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