Running-jogging

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Herophilus
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 662
   Posted 12/13/2009 8:19 AM (GMT -6)   

Just did my first post prostate surgery run yesterday. Saw my surgeon on Thursday and he told me I was released to start running. He said to start slow and work my way up.(lol) like I’d be able to just jump back to doing 6 miles. After careful consideration I ran the road instead of my beloved railroad tracks. I love the tracks because the sand is easy on my knees and I always see wildlife such as deer and turkey and the occasional teenagers necking. But I chose the road because in the event that I fell over dead someone would promptly discover me (probably run me over first) but on the tracks I’d likely go undetected for days. Happy to report after my 2 miles that the area formally occupied by my prostate seemed unaware of the increase in activity. As for the remainder of my body….lets just say when I woke up this morning I had that total body soreness that in a weird perverse way, runners love. My goal is to be back to 20 -24 miles a week by February. Any runners with experience/suggestions post operatively?


Age 51, PSA 08/31/2009= 6.8, DRE Neg.
Biopsy 9/24/09 =10 of 12 positive. Gleason 6. 75% of one core.
da Vinci at Wash U, Barnes on 11/02/09
Pathology Changed Gleason to 4 + 3 = 7. Gleason 7 present in all 4 quadrants
All(4)periprostatic Lymph Nodes Negative, All(10)pelvic Lymph Nodes negative
Seminal Vesicles tumor free. No prostate extension


60Michael
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2009
Total Posts : 2222
   Posted 12/13/2009 8:34 AM (GMT -6)   
Herophilus,
Well you were able to get back to running much quicker than I was, so that is a good note. The trails have been much easier on my body than the road so most my running is still in the woods and I run with 4 dogs, and the motivate me. Like you I also enjoy the wildlife. I do keep a running journal but in looking at it I cant tell when I resumed running.  I had surgery on May 5 , 2009 and in a journal note on May 31 I wrote that this is the first day that I have not been in pain all day. But I was walking 45-60 mintues by then. I am now running 6 miles three times a week and lift weights 2-3 times a week. But strted with 2-3 mile runs. Listen to your body and you will know when it's time for the 20-24 mile mark again. I will admit that my runs are still much slower, but hey that is okay. My best guess is that you are on target for February to return to your 20-24  mile weeks. Some one wrote that the "qucikest route to equality is thru exhaustion," and that is the feeling that most runners love.
Take care
Michael
Dx with PCA 12/08 2 out of 12 cores positive 4.5 psa
59 yo when diagnosed
Robotic surgery 5/09 Atlanta, Ga
Catheter out after 10 days
Gleason upgraded to 3+5, volume less than 10%
Margin slightly involved
2 pads per day, 1 depends but getting better,
8/5 1 depend at night only, now none
 started ED tx 7/17, slow go
Post op dx of neuropathy
3 months psa.01, 6 month psa.4, 6 1/2 month psa.5
Consulting with Primary Urologist for further tx.
Great family and friends
Michael


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 12/13/2009 9:46 AM (GMT -6)   
You guys that can run, job, and exercise, do weights at our ages just amaze me. Makes me jealous too, here I am 13 months after surgery, and 2 weeks out of radiation, and just walking through 2 major stores yesterday wiped me out clean for the rest of the day.

When I was a regular walker, I loved walking the train tracks, a kind of excitement to me, and for the most part, train tracks run level.

Both of you are doing some pretty impressive physical things in my book. Good for you, and I am sure it is good for you too.

David in SC
Age: 57, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 7/08 12.3, 9/08 14.5, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 - 7/7 Positive, 40-90% Cancer, Gleason 4+3
Open RP: 11/08, Rht nerves saved, 4 days in hospt, on catheters for 63 days, 5th one out 1/09
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin
Incontinence:  1 Month     ED:  Non issue at any point post surgery
Post Surgery  PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Latest: 7/9 met 2 rad. oncl, 7/9 cath #6 - blockage, 8/9 2nd corr surgery, 8/9 cath #7 out  38 days, 9/9 - met 3rd rad. oncl., mapped  9/9, 10/1 - 3rd corr. surgery - SP cath/hard dialation, 10/5 - began IMRT SRT - 39 sess/72 gys ,cath #8 33 days, Cath #9 in 35 days, 12/7/9 - Cath #10 in place


Worried Guy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 3732
   Posted 12/13/2009 9:46 AM (GMT -6)   
I started running about 4 weeks after surgery but I let the incontinence get me down. For about a week it was "Step step, squirt, step, step, squirt..." A simple 9:30 one miler would fill a pee pad. I have not been back down that road. I'll try it again when I get more confidence in my holding ability.
Jeff
DX Age 56. First routine PSA test on April 8th: 17.8. Start 2 weeks of Cipro to rule out protatitis.
May PSA: 22.6, 3 weeks later: PSA: 23.2.
Biopsy 6/10/09: 7/12 scores positive, Gleason 6=3+3. Bone scan and C/T scan negative.
RP DaVinci -7/21/2009 @ Univ of Roch Medical Center
Left nerve gone, right partial spared.
Catheter removed - 7/31/2009 Pathology report received:
Gleason 3+4=7 Tumor size: 2.5 x 1.8 cm location: both lobes and apex. No Malignancy in Seminal Vesicle, vasa deferentia, lymph nodes 0/13
Extraprostatic extension present; Perineural invasion: present, extensive
Prostate mass 56 grams. Pathologic Stage: pT3aN0MX
Post Surgery Status:
Potency - 12/11 5 months, Still no activity, zip. Using pump daily since 11/11.
Incontinence - 8/20 4 full pads per day
.. 9/7 3-4 full pads per day (I'm going to try cutting down on fluids. Bad idea. I know.)
. 9/27 2 months: Still 3 pads per day.
11/14 4 months: Still 3 pads per day. 420ml/day, 91 um leak.
12/11 5 months: Still 3 pads per day. 400-450ml/day Experimenting with Nyquil.
Post Surgery PSA - 9/3 6 weeks - 0.05; 10/13 3 months - 0.04 undetectable.


Arnie
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 372
   Posted 12/13/2009 10:24 AM (GMT -6)   
Herophilus.........Pre-surgery, I had gotten myself in 10-mile shape and did a tough 10 miler one week prior to my surgery---by design. Then, post surgery, I waited 'til the 4-week mark before I attempted to run again. I started out doing 3, which didn't do me in, and gradually increased to the usual 5-6 mile, 3 times a week routine. But by training higher, it was easier for me to come back at the usual level w/o setback. Incontinence at first wasn't bad, just a few dribbles, which wasn't much different than at times before surgery :-)...never felt like there was extra space in my innards, either. Now, I did wait approx. 10 weeks to go back to weight training, which I did at the 2-3 times per week level, and then at much lower weights. I'm now back to where I was this time last year on the cardio and weights. But I echo the advice of the other guys here; do everything gradually
As a runner, you know your body will tell you where you are----listen to it.
I've always considered my running as a spiritual experience/exercise, and it's even more so after my PC diagnosis and treatment----------good luck on your comeback trail!
 
Arnie in DE
Age 56 (biopsy & surgery)
PSA at Diagnosis-3.9
Biposy 8/19/08--4 of 12 cores positive; 5% involvement, Gleason 6 (3+3)
 
Surgery 1/26/09-DaVinci Robotic Prostatectomy at Presbyterian Medical Center/HUP-Phila, PA
Dr. David Lee
 
Pathology Report- Adenocarcinoma, no capsular involvement, seminal vesicles clear, lymph nodes clear, negative margins, Gleason 7 (3+4), Stage T2C, NO MX, Prostate 61.8 grams, gland involvement 2-10%
 
Catheter removed after 8 days, totally dry at 3 months. ED issues continue, Viagra (via ADC) nightly (100mgs), VED use in earnest at 6 months. "Ball Park Frank" plumping at this point......ED at 10 months continues to improve, albeit slowly. Continued daily use of 100mg Viagra (ADC). Discontinued pump use; manual stimulation to varying states of erections; achieved penetratable erection on a couple of occasions
3 month PSA--<0.1
6 month PSA--<0.1
10 month PSA--<0.1


livinadream
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 1382
   Posted 12/13/2009 10:47 AM (GMT -6)   
I to love to run. I start my mornings with swimming at 6:00am then on to work and in the evenings I run or do weights. I am convinced that not slowing down has helped me get through the treatments of ADT3. I plan to never slow down, sit down, wound down, give up, shut up until I am taken up. Life is good.
Hey I should plan a Healing Well 5K, wonder how many would join in?

peace to all
Dale
My PSA at diagnosis was 16.3
age 47 (current)

http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/dalechildress

My gleason score from prostate was 4+5=9 and from the lymph nodes (3 positive) was 4+4=8
I had 44 IMRT's
Casodex
Currently on Lupron
I go to The Cancer Treatment Center of America
Married with two kids
latest PSA 5-27-08 0.11

PSA July 24th, 2008 is 0.04
PSA Dec 16th, 2008 is .016
PSA Mar 30th, 2009 is .02
PSA July 28th 2009 is .01
PSA OCt 15th 2009 is .11

Testosterone keeps rising, the current number is 156, up from 57 in May

T level dropped to 37 Mar 30th, 2009
cancer in 4 of 6 cores
92%
80%
37%
28%


Herophilus
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 662
   Posted 12/14/2009 11:16 AM (GMT -6)   

Thanks very much for the comments, suggestions, and encouragement.  I have found that prostate cancer is a day-by-day kind of thing…some days are better than others.  I find additional comfort from the knowledge that others have returned back to pre-operative status, or a reasonable facsimile of. BTW no person on earth is slower than I. My personal motto is “each run is a marathon, not a sprint” and I really live up to that!!!

 

 


DJBearGuy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 732
   Posted 12/14/2009 2:34 PM (GMT -6)   
Herop,

Last year I ran a local 5k, fully aware that I was going in for prostate surgery 2 days later. This year I ran the same race, and beat last year's time by more than 50 seconds. Hard to describe, but this was very meaningful to me, sort of pounds home the statement that I survived, darn it!

I will say though, that I did overdo it at first, and after a few weeks one day basically found myself totally exhausted. So when I resumed, it was with a more gradual increase.

DJ

P.S. Healingwell 5k--great idea. Wonder how we'd do it?
Diagnosis at age 53. PSA 2007 about 2; PSA 2008 4.3
Biopsy September 2008: 6 of 12 cores positive; Gleason 4+3 = 7
CT and Bone scan negative
Da Vinci surgery at City of Hope December 8, 2008
Radical prostatectomy and lymph node dissection
Catheter out on 7th day, replaced on 8th day, out again 14th day following negative cystogram
Pathology: pT2c; lymph nodes negative; margins involved; 41 grams, 8% involved by tumor; same Gleason 4+3=7
PSA 1/22/08 non-detectable! 8-)
4/23/09, 07/30/09, Oct 2009 still undetectable!


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 12/14/2009 3:31 PM (GMT -6)   
Dale, the HW 5K is a great idea! We should all give some serious thought to it, I am ok as long as you allow walkers too, not just runners.

DJ, pretty impressive that you beat last years time, post surgery, you must be a toughie. One day, when I don't have a catheter stuck up me, I would like to think about doing things like that. I still can believe I have one in me 13 months post surgery, and will have to continue till at least mid- to late January at earliest to be free.

David in SC
Age: 57, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 7/08 12.3, 9/08 14.5, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 - 7/7 Positive, 40-90% Cancer, Gleason 4+3
Open RP: 11/08, Rht nerves saved, 4 days in hospt, on catheters for 63 days, 5th one out 1/09
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin
Incontinence:  1 Month     ED:  Non issue at any point post surgery
Post Surgery  PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Latest: 7/9 met 2 rad. oncl, 7/9 cath #6 - blockage, 8/9 2nd corr surgery, 8/9 cath #7 out  38 days, 9/9 - met 3rd rad. oncl., mapped  9/9, 10/1 - 3rd corr. surgery - SP cath/hard dialation, 10/5 - began IMRT SRT - 39 sess/72 gys ,cath #8 33 days, Cath #9 in 35 days, 12/7/9 - Cath #10 in place


O Buddy Boy
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 106
   Posted 12/14/2009 8:27 PM (GMT -6)   
I ran very lightly about six weeks after my surgery, but decided to pull back a bit. However, I can't pass up running up any flight of stairs.

I have no mind for distance running. If I run I have to sprint. I don't run more than 1 lap on a track because I can't count higher than that. If there were no lines on the track I'd get lost.

I did take up speed walking. Didn't realize it would goose the heart rate the way it does. I've been up to 167 bpm walking fast up hills. I have done six miles in an hour with an avg hr of 147 bpm.

Two cool things about walking: #1 I really think it helps with the leaking. It snowed bad here for a couple of weeks so I didn't get out much and really started to leak worse. Picked up the running again and the leaking dwindled. #2 It doesn't pound me and nag at my achilles.

Been doing weights. Started with 5# dumbells four weeks after surgery. Now I'm up to 60# curls.

Bicycle is the challenge. My wife (uro clinic nurse) asked one of the docs (I guy I ride with) at 8 weeks if it was OK and I got the green light. Local bike shop was a huge help with selecting some good saddles and recommending work out schedule (1/2 mile from the uro clinic and hospital, go figure). The bike racing shops were clueless on that subject.

On bicycle I'm up to 10 minutes on, 10 minutes of sit-ups & stretching times three. The rest is to allow circulation and prevent any immediate numbness. I will do 1-min out of saddle "sprints" at 80%, with 2 min rest on saddle x10 once or twice a week when I'm wanting my endorphin fix. I also ride back and forth to work, weather permitting, about 10 miles a day. Half the trip is out of the saddle, lol!

Looking forward to XC ski in January.
55 yo
Dx:9/29/09
DRE: Susp
PSA: 3.5
Gleason: 3+4/7
6/12 Cores Positive; Sextants were 1%, 3%, 8%, 15%, 12%, 0%
RALP: 10/09/09
PATH:
Margins: Clear
Lymph Nodes: Clear
Seminal Vesicles: Clear
Gleason: No increase from biopsy 3+4/7
Some perineural and capsule invasion.
T2c,NO,MX
Incontinence: Minor. 1 light pad a day. Some days don't need it.
ED: Natural with encouragement. 20mg Cialis and pump just makes things more fun.


goodlife
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 2691
   Posted 12/14/2009 8:49 PM (GMT -6)   
Am I jealous ? Not on my poor dead prostate.

And I thought a prostatectomy was bad. 20 to 24 mile week ? Yee gads !

Dale, can I wave the flag or something ?

Goodlife
Age 58, PSA 4.47 Biopsy - 2/12 cores , Gleason 4 + 5 = 9
Da Vinci, Cleveland Clinic  4/14/09   Nerves spared, but carved up a little.
0/23 lymph nodes involved  pT3a NO MX
Catheter and 2 stints in ureters for 2 weeks .
Neg Margins, bladder neck negative
Living the Good Life, cancer free  6 week PSA  <.03
3 month PSA <.01 (different lab)
5 month PSA <.03 (undetectable)
6 Month PSA <.01
1 pad a day, no progress on ED.  Trimix injections


Berb
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 93
   Posted 12/16/2009 1:27 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi to all HW runners.
 
I also am a runner, and it was very important to me to get back to running as soon as I could after the operation.  Did my first 5K 8 weeks after the prostatectomy - totally incontinent all the way. 
 
Have since done many fun runs, marathons and ultra marathons with no issues other than incontinence.  The pads made the process more difficult, having to change every hour (I was totally incontinent 8-10 pads a day), as the running increased urine loss. After a year, I ditched the pads and used a catheter and bag which was much better - ran London marathon with one under the leg of my long tights.  18 months ago I got an Artificial Sphincter fitted and ran my first 100K 12 weeks later. 
 
Still get a bit of leakage when I run, but a great device and infinitely better than before. Unfortunately I have been sidelined lately with a hamstring strain.  Am missing the running a great deal.
 
Keep running!
Regards
Berb

59 when diagnosed, now 61 years old
Da Vinci surgery Jan 10, 2007, nerves spared, no cancer detected outside prostate
Pre surgery PSA 8, Gleeson 3+4=7, T1C, 3 out of 12 biopsies had cancer
Complication 1: urine favoured drain tube over catheter, extra time in hospital, catheter in for 2 weeks
Complication 2 - urinary tract infection - Citrobacter (hospital bug), 6 weeks antibiotics cleared up
Complication 3 - fungal growth on genitals (candida albicans) probably from antibiotics
Aug'07 Urodynamic study for continuing incontinence 8 pads per day; diagnosed bladder neck stenosis
Oct'07 CT scan indicated nothing abnormal; cystoscopy showed narrowing at anastimosis - dialated
Dec'07 averaging 9 pads a day, started acupuncture (no benefit after 10 treatments)
Jun'08 AUS fitted
Aug'08 AUS activated - highly effective
Post surgery PSA tests: all undetectable


cocrgolfer
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 171
   Posted 12/16/2009 5:38 AM (GMT -6)   
My experience:
Pre-surgery my wife and I would jog four miles in around forty minutes on the beach. In the afternoons I would walk two and a half or three hours on the golf course. Intersperse that with some days of six hours in the kayak. Post-surgery, a few days after the catheter came out, twenty minutes about did me in. I'm back to beach speed walks and we do three and a half miles in fifty minutes. I can manage only nine holes walking in the afternoon. My kayak has been abandoned for now. At night I'm exhausted. Even though I had very little pain or swelling after the RRP myy energy levels are now about 70% of pre-surgery two months later. This surgery is much more traumatic on the inside than one would think observing the outside. Also, the battle against incontinence is extremely energy sapping too, the constant squeezing, kegeling, trips to the bathroom, worrying, changing pads. This is going to take a lot more recovery time than I initially expected.

Another point: My lungs don't seem to function as freely as before and I wonder if that could be residual effects of the anesthesia. Anybody else experience a tightness in the chest like that?

Steve

DJBearGuy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 732
   Posted 12/17/2009 5:12 PM (GMT -6)   
Steve,

At about 2 months after surgery I think you sound like you're doing well. Make sure you're eating well, as your body is continuing to heal and needs the nutrients. I was trying to lose weight and get in shape at the same time, and that can be tricky, probably is what did me in for a while.

Now that you mention it, it seemed to me that my allergies were worse after surgery. I use an inhaler more often than I used to, but I thought it was just me getting older.

Dave, thanks for the compliment. All the 5k races I've seen have been run/walk, so you should feel welcome to join in.

Berb, you actually ran a marathon with a catheter in? Amazing! Weren't you sore afterward? In a place that normally doesn't get that sore?

DJ
Diagnosis at age 53. PSA 2007 about 2; PSA 2008 4.3
Biopsy September 2008: 6 of 12 cores positive; Gleason 4+3 = 7
CT and Bone scan negative
Da Vinci surgery at City of Hope December 8, 2008
Radical prostatectomy and lymph node dissection
Catheter out on 7th day, replaced on 8th day, out again 14th day following negative cystogram
Pathology: pT2c; lymph nodes negative; margins involved; 41 grams, 8% involved by tumor; same Gleason 4+3=7
PSA 1/22/08 non-detectable! 8-)
4/23/09, 07/30/09, Oct 2009 still undetectable!


cocrgolfer
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 171
   Posted 12/17/2009 6:17 PM (GMT -6)   
If all you nothern guys want to come down to sunny Florida I will organize a 5k on the beach. Just tell me when. We could start thinking about prizes. For the incontinent-1st place-a brand new penis clamp. 2nd-three packs of Tena pads. 3rd-a new plastic urine receptacle. ED-1st-trimex injection kit. 2nd-VED pump. 3rd-months supply of Cialis.

Suggestions?

Steve

Gmike
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2009
Total Posts : 48
   Posted 12/17/2009 6:46 PM (GMT -6)   
I started biking 10 days after seeding on my recumbent bike. I have rides of 37, 38, and 57 miles. The recumbent was in the shop today so my wife and I got out the tandem with the skinny seat (it is cut out for the sensitive area.) We rode 36 miles. So far no problems. My doctor said as long as there was no discomfort I was okay to go.
Dx: 05/21/2009 (age 58)
1 core of 12 positive (10%), Gleason 6, Stage T1c, PSA 5.2 (21% Free)
Family history: Grandfather had PCa, died at age 79 of other causes, Father had PCa still living at age 80 cancer free (11 years)
07/15/2009 TUMT (Transurethral Microwave Therapy) for BPH
08/29/2009 Started on Casodex
10/5/2009 Color Flow Doppler at Dattoli upgraded stage to T3a, started Avodart
10/12/2009 to 11/20/2009 IMRT at Dattoli Clinic in Sarasota
12/03/2009 Brachytherapy performed by Dr. Dattoli

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