stale date on injectables

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The Boss
New Member


Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 6
   Posted 1/12/2010 10:38 AM (GMT -6)   
Do any of you who use injectibles fo erectile purposes[!] have any experience with these chemicals after they have passed the pharmacist's written stale date on the Rx. Effectiveness? Safety? Personal date limits? What to and not to look for? etc? thanks!

Steve n Dallas
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2008
Total Posts : 4829
   Posted 1/12/2010 10:56 AM (GMT -6)   

I'll eat a can of green beans after the dead date....But I'm not about to inject myself with older stuff....I hate throwing expensive things out but not in this case.

I recently got my second package that said NO MORE to freezing it to get more time out of it.....


Age 54   - 5'11"   205lbs
Overall Heath Condition - Good
PSA - July 2007 & Jan 2008 -> 1.3
Biopsy - 03/04/08 -> Gleason 6 
06/25/08 - Da Vinci robotic laparoscopy
05/14/09  - 4th Quarter PSA -> less then .01
11/20/09 - 18 Month PSA -> less then .01
Surgeon - Keith A. Waguespack, M.D.


MrGimpy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 504
   Posted 1/12/2010 1:33 PM (GMT -6)   
My vial of Trimix says 90 days refrigerated. I spoke to another person who says he fills up his syringes and freezes them for up to 6 months past that
Stats:
Age: 52
PSA (2008)=1.9
Biopsy on Jan 09, 2009
One (1) out of twelve (12) cores was positive, plus external nodule found
Gleason Score = 3+3
Surgery (Da Vinci, robotic prostatectomy): 4/7/09
Removed Catheter: 04/19/09
100% bladder control - Pad free 7/09
PSA 7/09 undetectable, under .0


hb2006
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 299
   Posted 1/12/2010 2:42 PM (GMT -6)   
I have found that if you keep Trimix refergerated, it retains it's potency for up to six months. But I think that it could depend on your compounding pharmacy. If the liquid turns cloudy or has settlement floating around, I would definitely throw it out.
Age 60, PSA 2007 4.1, PSA 2008 10.0
Diagnosed April 2008, Biopsy: 6 of 12 cores positive, Gleason 4 + 5 = 9
CT and Bone Scan negative, Open surgery at Shawnee Mission Medical Center May 21, 2008
Right side nerves spared, Radical prostatectomy and lymph node dissection
Cather removed on June 3rd, totally dry on July 9th, pT2c, lymph nodes negative
PSA Sept 28, 2008 0.00, PSA Jan 22, 2009 0.00, PSA June 29, 2009 0.00
ED Status- Currently using Trimix, Levitra daily for increased blood flow.
Noctural Erections have completely returned on a nightly basis, same hardness as before.


Cajun Jeff
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 4106
   Posted 1/12/2010 3:14 PM (GMT -6)   
Im new at the injecting game. The Dr told me I would know when it was no longer good.(This is Cavaject) It simpley would not work. When it looses its power is just like water.

Jeff T
Jeff T Age 57

9/08 PSA 5.4, referred to Urologist
9/08 Biopsy: GS 3/4=7
10/08 Nerve sparing open RRP- Path Report: GS 3+3=7 Stg. pT2c, margins clear
3 mts: PSA .05 undetectable

10th month PSA <0.01
1year psa <0.01
ED- 5 mg Cialis daily, pump daily, going to try MUSE next. Next step injections.
15 months out injections Caveject (success)


hb2006
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 299
   Posted 1/12/2010 3:27 PM (GMT -6)   
Are you using the Caverject Impulse? Or mixing by hand? Either way, the dry powder lasts for months, if not years.

I was using Edex for awhile, before I switched to Trimix. The expiration date on the syringes is either 2011 or 2012.
Age 60, PSA 2007 4.1, PSA 2008 10.0
Diagnosed April 2008, Biopsy: 6 of 12 cores positive, Gleason 4 + 5 = 9
CT and Bone Scan negative, Open surgery at Shawnee Mission Medical Center May 21, 2008
Right side nerves spared, Radical prostatectomy and lymph node dissection
Cather removed on June 3rd, totally dry on July 9th, pT2c, lymph nodes negative
PSA Sept 28, 2008 0.00, PSA Jan 22, 2009 0.00, PSA June 29, 2009 0.00
ED Status- Currently using Trimix, Levitra daily for increased blood flow.
Noctural Erections have completely returned on a nightly basis, same hardness as before.


Cajun Jeff
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 4106
   Posted 1/12/2010 3:36 PM (GMT -6)   
Mixing by hand. Yes the powder is good for a long time. After the mix it must be refirgerated. I am using a syringe to inject.(very small needle)
Why did you switch from Edex to Trimix?

Jeff T


Jeff T Age 57

9/08 PSA 5.4, referred to Urologist
9/08 Biopsy: GS 3/4=7
10/08 Nerve sparing open RRP- Path Report: GS 3+3=7 Stg. pT2c, margins clear
3 mts: PSA .05 undetectable

10th month PSA <0.01
1year psa <0.01
ED- 5 mg Cialis daily, pump daily, going to try MUSE next. Next step injections.
15 months out injections Caveject (success)


clearwatercowboy
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 135
   Posted 1/12/2010 4:52 PM (GMT -6)   
Now you have me wondering if my problem is that my Bimix is worn out, even though it claims to have a couple of weeks left before expiring. Like last night, no booze at all for the past 48 hrs. Injected the normal amount, waited, waited, waited.........Only minimal response occurred. Maybe that is my problem, in addition to the alcohol. Man, we sure wish we could get this figured out, it's driving me freakin crazy.
RRP May 04, 2009
Pre-op Gleason 6
Post-op Gleason 7


Carlos
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 486
   Posted 1/12/2010 6:12 PM (GMT -6)   
I wouldn't use any out of date mix. I remember reading comments about possible bacteria growth.

clearwater, I asked my uro about mixing alcohol with bimix. He laughed and said no problem, unless one were to get a little too much to be able to inject properly.

Carlos
Diagnosed 2/2008 at age 71, PSA 9.1, Gleason 8 (5+3)and stage T1c.  CT and bone scan neg.
Robotic surgery 5/2008, nerves spared, bladder neck spared with pelvic floor reconstruction.
All margins, SV and lymph nodes were neg.  Staged pT2c, Gleason sum 8 (5+3).
Continent at 6 weeks. 
PSA <0.1 at 20 months, Jan. 4. 2010.


Piano
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 847
   Posted 1/12/2010 10:20 PM (GMT -6)   
I used my last lot of Bimix out to about 8 months. No sign of cloudiness or contamination and it remained just as effective as when fresh.

I kept mine refrigerated, and to reduce contamination when drawing it out, prepared 5 - 10 syringes at a time.
Pre-op:
Age 63 at diagnosis, now 64.
No symptoms; PSA 5.7; Gleason 4+5=9; cancer in 4 of 12 cores.
Operation:
Non-nerve sparing RRP on 7 March 2008.
Two nights in hospital; catheter out after 7 days.
Post-op:
Continent; no pads needed from the get-go.
Pathology showed organ confined and negative margins. Gleason downgraded to 4+4=8.
PSAs:
6-week : <0.05
7-month: <0.05
13-month: 0.07 (start of a trend?)
19-month: 0.09 (maybe)
ED:
After a learning curve, Bimix injections (0.2ml) worked well. From 14 months, occasional nocturnal erections. Have "graduated" to just the pump.


Ed C. (Old67)
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2009
Total Posts : 2458
   Posted 1/13/2010 1:06 PM (GMT -6)   
I have used trimix beyond it expiration date. I used mine for 6 months but I do keep it refrigerated.
Age: 67 at Dx on 12/30/08
PSA 9/05 1.15; 8/06 1.45; 12/07 2.41; 8/08 3.9; 11/08 3.5 free PSA 11%
2 cores out of 12 were positive Gleason (4+4) and (4+5)
Negative CT scan and bone scan done on 1/16
Robotic surgery performed 2/9/09 Dr Fagin, Austin TX
Pathology report:
Prostate weighed 57 grams size:5.2 x 5.0 x 4.9 cm
Posterior lateral lesions measuring 1.5 x 1.4 x 1.0 cm showing focal capsular penetration over a distance of 3mm in circumference.
Prostatic adenocarciroma accounts for approx. 10-20% of the hemisphere.
Gleason 4+4
both nerve bundles removed,
pT3a Nx Mx, Negative margins
seminal vesicles clean, lymph nodes: not dissected
continent after 4 months
8 weeks PSA test 4/7/09 result <0.1
5 months PSA test 7/9/09 result <0.1
8 months PSA test 10/9/09 result <0.1


Worried Guy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 3732
   Posted 1/13/2010 1:39 PM (GMT -6)   
My very first batch arrived today! Only one week before I meet with the Uro to learn how and where to do it. I will be sure to not drink any wine for at least 24 hours before.

I'm so excited. I feel like a teenager anticipating the after party on prom night!
Jeff
DX Age 56. First routine PSA test on April 8th: 17.8. Start 2 weeks of Cipro to rule out protatitis.
May PSA: 22.6, 3 weeks later: PSA: 23.2.
Biopsy 6/10/09: 7/12 scores positive, Gleason 6=3+3. Bone scan and C/T scan negative.
RP DaVinci -7/21/2009 @ Univ of Roch Medical Center
Left nerve gone, right partial spared.
Catheter removed - 7/31/2009 Pathology report received:
Gleason 3+4=7, Tumor size: 2.5 x 1.8 cm, location: both lobes and apex.
Extraprostatic extension present; Perineural invasion: present, extensive.
No Malignancy in Seminal Vesicle, vasa deferentia, lymph nodes 0/13
Prostate mass 56 grams. Pathologic Stage: pT3aN0MX
Post Surgery Status:
Potency - 12/11 5 months, Still no activity, zip. Using pump daily since 11/11. No effect with 20 mg of Cialis or 100 mg of Viagra. Shots next? See Uro 1/20/10
Incontinence - 8/20 4 full pads per day
.. 9/7 3-4 full pads per day (Try cutting down on fluids. Bad idea. I know.)
11/14 4 months: Still 3 pads per day. 420ml/day, 91 um leak.
12/11 5 months: Still 3 pads per day. 400-450ml/day
1/11/10 6 months: Still 3 pads but leak is now 320 ml (5 day avg.)
Post Surgery PSA - 9/3 6 weeks - 0.05; 10/13 3 months - 0.04 undetectable.


Cajun Jeff
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 4106
   Posted 1/13/2010 3:33 PM (GMT -6)   
Jeff, My Dr said it best. "I giving you a new toy. Go have fun with it!"

Good advise. Hope yours is as successful and my appointment was.

Jeff T
Cajun Country
Jeff T Age 57

9/08 PSA 5.4, referred to Urologist
9/08 Biopsy: GS 3/4=7
10/08 Nerve sparing open RRP- Path Report: GS 3+3=7 Stg. pT2c, margins clear
3 mts: PSA .05 undetectable

10th month PSA <0.01
1year psa <0.01
ED- 5 mg Cialis daily, pump daily, going to try MUSE next. Next step injections.
15 months out injections Caveject (success)


biker90
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 1464
   Posted 1/13/2010 4:08 PM (GMT -6)   
My current 5 ml vial of Trimix is over 18 months old. I only use .05 ml per injection so a vial gives 100 shots. No cloudiness or signs of contamination and it still works like new. At $75 a vial, I'm a cheap date for 75 cents a pop.

Jim
Age 75. Diagnosed 11/03/06. PSA 7.05. Stage T2C Gleason 3+3.
RRP 12/7/06. Nerves and nodes okay.
Catheter out on 12/13/06. Dry on 12/14/06.
Pathological stage: T2C N0 MX. Gleason 3+4.
50 mg Viagra + .05 cc Trimix = Excellent Results
PSAs from 1/3/07 - 7/17/09 zero.
Next PSA - July/2010
Lung cancer dxed on 5/16/08. Surgery on 6/25/08 T1N1M0 - Stage IIA Finished 4 cycles of chemo on 11/7/08.
CT scans on 12/2/08 - 12/22/09 - in remission!!!
Next scan in June 2010.
Biker90's Journey
http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/jimrobinson
"Patience is essential, attitude is everything."


James C.
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4462
   Posted 1/13/2010 5:01 PM (GMT -6)   
corvetteman: Jeff, I wanted to follow up with your posting. Since you are using
powder Caverject, how's the aching, pain side of it? What's the dosing? Is
insurance paying for it? Do you plan to stay with this or move on to the
tri and bi mix? I have used the powdered and found I couldn't tolerate the
aching/painful sensation, although the erection was nail-driving hard...lol
James C. Age 62
Co-Moderator- Prostate Cancer Forum
4/07 PSA 7.6, referred to Urologist, recheck 6.7
7/07 Biopsy: 3 of 16 PCa, 5% involved, left lobe, GS 3/3=6
9/07 Nerve sparing open RRP 110gms.- Path Report: GS 3+3=6 Stg. pT2c, 110gms, margins clear
24 mts: PSA's: .04 each test since surgery, ED Continues-Bimix .3ml PRN or Trimix .15ml PRN


Cajun Jeff
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 4106
   Posted 1/13/2010 5:40 PM (GMT -6)   
James at this point there in NO aching or pain side to caverject! The dose has a 20 on it the Dr said when I finish this vial he will make it 40 which I would use 1/2 as much. Yep nail-driving hard :) Insurance does not pay. Dr sells it in his office a cost. My dose is 2.5 and last 1 hr.

Dr. said I should not use it more than 1 time a day. :)

Hope that answers you questions

Jeff T
Jeff T Age 57

9/08 PSA 5.4, referred to Urologist
9/08 Biopsy: GS 3/4=7
10/08 Nerve sparing open RRP- Path Report: GS 3+3=7 Stg. pT2c, margins clear
3 mts: PSA .05 undetectable

10th month PSA <0.01
1year psa <0.01
ED- 5 mg Cialis daily, pump daily, going to try MUSE next. Next step injections.
15 months out injections Caveject (success)


hb2006
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 299
   Posted 1/14/2010 10:21 AM (GMT -6)   
corvetteman3
 
You are one of those really lucky guys that don't react to Alprostadil. Caverject and Edex both gave me super erections but I couldn't stand the aching pain that showed up after about an hour. I tried all sorts of OTC pain medication but nothing worked.
 
I got the same result with MUSE. Lots of pain but not much to show for it. Lately, I have discovered that I had to switch to the 1/2 inch super fine needle because the 5/16 inch needle was missing something. Trimix works great now with no pain.
 
Btw, the Caverject, Edex or Trimix injections always seem to last 3 hours plus for me. No matter how much I reduce the dosage, it's still 3 hours.
Age 60, PSA 2007 4.1, PSA 2008 10.0
Diagnosed April 2008, Biopsy: 6 of 12 cores positive, Gleason 4 + 5 = 9
CT and Bone Scan negative, Open surgery at Shawnee Mission Medical Center May 21, 2008
Right side nerves spared, Radical prostatectomy and lymph node dissection
Cather removed on June 3rd, totally dry on July 9th, pT2c, lymph nodes negative
PSA Sept 28, 2008 0.00, PSA Jan 22, 2009 0.00, PSA June 29, 2009 0.00
ED Status- Currently using Trimix, Levitra daily for increased blood flow.
Noctural Erections have completely returned on a nightly basis, same hardness as before.


Cajun Jeff
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 4106
   Posted 1/14/2010 3:45 PM (GMT -6)   
It is kind of odd that the Muse did not work for me and was painful. I hope the injection contiune the way they are. 1hr. no pain. Feel so natural like the old days. What more can I ask for.

Jeff T
Jeff T Age 57

9/08 PSA 5.4, referred to Urologist
9/08 Biopsy: GS 3/4=7
10/08 Nerve sparing open RRP- Path Report: GS 3+3=7 Stg. pT2c, margins clear
3 mts: PSA .05 undetectable

10th month PSA <0.01
1year psa <0.01
ED- 5 mg Cialis daily, pump daily, going to try MUSE next. Next step injections.
15 months out injections Caveject (success)

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