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LenB
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 102
   Posted 1/28/2010 8:42 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi Guys,
 
I have been meaning to ask this question for awhile but never got around to it.  I am at 4 months post surgery (DaVinci) and although the incontinence is slowly beginning to ease, I appear to be having increasing problems with missing the pad.   I attribute some of this to the reduced size of Willie but, I think I am doing something wrong with regard to pad placement.  I was just wondering if others are having the same problem. I am using The TENA Male Guard (moderate). 
 
I change my underwear more often than I have to change the pad.  Very frustrating mad !!! 
 
Thanks for any pointers,
 
Len

Age: 65
DX: 7/10/09
Gleason: 7
Biopsey: 2 chips with some cancer cells out of 30.
Robotic Surgery: 9/10/09
Cath out: 9/23/09
1st post op PSA: 10/20/09 <0.1
2nd post op PSA:  1/25/10 <0.1
 


Burlcodad
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 254
   Posted 1/28/2010 9:28 AM (GMT -6)   

Len

I am only two weeks post surgery.  I am using Poise - maximum during day and ultimate at night.  They are quite large and  little willie seems to have no problem hitting these.  I assume that if you have tried something like this and are now down to a smaller size but if not might be something to consider.

Ray

 

 


diag 9/09
 
age at diag 54
 
PSA 6/09 1.3
 
stage 2b (biopsy done because of firmness felt on right side)
 
3 positive cores out of 12 (all less than 25%)
 
Gleason 6
 
Surgery  1/13/10 at UP- Penn Presby with Dr David Lee. Home 1/14/10 Nerves spared on both sides -Catheter removed 1/19/10  Path report scheduled for 2/11/10
 
 


Steve n Dallas
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2008
Total Posts : 4829
   Posted 1/28/2010 9:32 AM (GMT -6)   
Hopefully you aren't doing what I did when I got my cath out - I was wearing Boxers...Going to breifs did the trick. Little willie couldn't miss if he had too.
Age 54   - 5'11"   205lbs
Overall Heath Condition - Good
PSA - July 2007 & Jan 2008 -> 1.3
Biopsy - 03/04/08 -> Gleason 6 
06/25/08 - Da Vinci robotic laparoscopy
05/14/09  - 4th Quarter PSA -> less then .01
11/20/09 - 18 Month PSA -> less then .01
Surgeon - Keith A. Waguespack, M.D.


142
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 6949
   Posted 1/28/2010 9:34 AM (GMT -6)   
I found the Tena guard to have less "capacity" than the Depends guard (a known trade-off, since they (Tena) are so much thinner), and at +14 weeks (today!) I can not use them without buying a case a week. Hope to get to the level that I can soon.
Big problem is that the guards protect "down hill", so you will never use the part above Willie except at night. They do not really have much wicking power to them.
The Tena shape puts a lot more of the absorbent material higher in the pad.

I've found two adjustments -
1) If you dressed Willie to one side or the other all your life, remember that. The pad doesn't need to be centered, so run it from center up to your preferred side. The Tena pad is wider than the rest, but there is still some room for adjustment.
2) Mount the pad down more in the brief (willie permitting) so that it comes further back behind the guys. This gives you more "downhill" territory, and a little more protection. Less comfortable, though.

Also, if you have not tried the Depends, go on their website. There is a free sample option. They will send two plus a coupon, if you sign up online.

Good point above - give the boxers to the goodwill - briefs are the only way to use guards.

If anyone had told me I would be writing about this sort of thing six months ago ....

DaVinci 10/2009

Ed C. (Old67)
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2009
Total Posts : 2458
   Posted 1/28/2010 6:08 PM (GMT -6)   
Ray,
Unlike women, willie has a way of moving around. The width of the pad is as important as its capacity. Also, when you pee, make sure that you position willie properly on the pad.
Age: 67 at Dx on 12/30/08
PSA 9/05 1.15; 8/06 1.45; 12/07 2.41; 8/08 3.9; 11/08 3.5 free PSA 11%
2 cores out of 12 were positive Gleason (4+4) and (4+5)
Negative CT scan and bone scan done on 1/16
Robotic surgery performed 2/9/09 Dr Fagin, Austin TX
Pathology report:
Prostate weighed 57 grams size:5.2 x 5.0 x 4.9 cm
Posterior lateral lesions measuring 1.5 x 1.4 x 1.0 cm showing focal capsular penetration over a distance of 3mm in circumference.
Prostatic adenocarciroma accounts for approx. 10-20% of the hemisphere.
Gleason 4+4
both nerve bundles removed,
pT3a Nx Mx, Negative margins
seminal vesicles clean, lymph nodes: not dissected
continent after 4 months
8 weeks PSA test 4/7/09 result <0.1
5 months PSA test 7/9/09 result <0.1
8 months PSA test 10/9/09 result <0.1
11.5 months test 1/21/10 result 0.004


SubicSquid
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 252
   Posted 1/28/2010 6:13 PM (GMT -6)   
I have been using the Walmart brand - Assurance I think. I found that by putting them on upside down from the directions (I put the wide part on the bottom), and not placing them up too high in the underwear, that the leakage problem stopped.
Age 63, PSA July 2009 5.66
Diagnosed July 2009, Biopsy: 2 of 12 cores positive, Gleason 3 + 5 = 8

MRI and Bone Scan Negative.

open Surgey October 22, 2009 (6 hours on table; 2 units blood)

Small part of incision infected (2 staples removed); finally healed at 3 month mark.

Prostate, both nerve bundles, seminal vessels, and two lymph nodes removed during surgery.

Post surgery Biopsy, Gleason 4 + 3; 2 positive margins


Returned to work after 6 weeks. First week worked only half days because of pain from sitting for long periods.

Still slightly incontinant after 12 weeks - 1 pads per day (light). Dry at night. 1-2 trips to toilet.

ED - Yes (will start Levitra possibly in January)

30 day PSA (ultra-sensitive) .07

90 day PSA (standard) <0.15


cocrgolfer
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 171
   Posted 1/28/2010 8:13 PM (GMT -6)   
Hey Len,

Yeah, I had the same problem. Even with the briefs the pad would move around and leak especially when I was active. I stopped using them a month or more ago and now use only Tena protective underware. You'll get 100% protection and mine have never leaked plus they look masculine when worn. A little expensive though.

Steve

Worried Guy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 3732
   Posted 1/28/2010 8:30 PM (GMT -6)   
LenB,
Sadly, I consider myself an expert in this field.
1) I use a pair of briefs one size smaller than my usual.
2) In my experience, Tenas have less capacity and are more prone to leakage than the CVS or Depends Mens Guards. (I can dig up my data later.)
3) I make sure the protective strips are folded up over the edge of the pad so my clothes and skin don't ever touch the pad.
4) If I am going out, I will slip half a poise pad inside the Men's Guard. That will hold about 100 ml and can be ripped out and thrown away while standing at a urinal if you can't get to a stall. It is also quieter than ripping out a Men's guard. And it is very easy to slip in a new 1/2 pad.

How much are you leaking? At 400 ml you should need about 2 full men's guards and 1 or 2 half poise pads.

Good luck,
Jeff
DX Age 56. First routine PSA test on April 8th: 17.8. Start 2 weeks of Cipro to rule out protatitis.
May PSA: 22.6, 3 weeks later: PSA: 23.2.
Biopsy 6/10/09: 7/12 scores positive, 20%-70%, Gleason 6=3+3. Bone scan and C/T scan negative.
RP DaVinci -7/21/2009 @ Univ of Roch Medical Center
Left nerve gone, right partial spared.
Catheter removed - 7/31/2009 Pathology report received:
Gleason 3+4=7, Tumor size: 2.5 x 1.8 cm, location: both lobes and apex.
Extraprostatic extension present; Perineural invasion: present, extensive.
No Malignancy in Seminal Vesicle, vasa deferentia, lymph nodes 0/13
Prostate mass 56 grams. Pathologic Stage: pT3aN0MX
Post Surgery Status:
Potency - 12/11 5 months, Still no activity, zip. Using pump daily since 11/11. No effect with 20 mg of Cialis or 100 mg of Viagra. Shots next? See Uro 1/22/10 Trimix unsuccessful.
Incontinence - 8/20 4 full pads per day
.. 9/7 3-4 full pads per day (Try cutting down on fluids. Bad idea. I know.)
11/14 4 months: Still 3 pads per day. 420ml/day, 91 um leak.
12/11 5 months: Still 3 pads per day. 400-450ml/day
1/11/10 6 months: Still 3 pads but leak is now 320 ml (5 day avg.)
Post Surgery PSA - 9/3 6 weeks - 0.05; 10/13 3 months - 0.04, 6 months - 0.05.


hopenchange
New Member


Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 19
   Posted 1/28/2010 9:14 PM (GMT -6)   
Len,
 
When I was discharged from the hospital they gave(not really) me a take home package of gauze, another catheter bag, and a two pair of Sir Dignity briefs(one sml/med and one lg/xl) among other things.  The briefs have built-in pocket for a pad.  I have had no problem keeping my much shortened member within the confines of the pocket.  If you google them you will see that they are available from a number of sources.  Their price($12-$15) is offset by the fact that there are no worries about placement of your member, the pad moving or urine leaking through since the pouch is waterproof. 

Scotty
  

Age 66

Routine physical at PCP office, with DRE and PSA Test. PSA 2.5, small growth felt on right side 

Urologist performed TRUS biopsy 9/17/09,samples sent to Bostwick Labs

Results received from lab indicated PCa 9/24/09

8 of 12 samples 80% Gleason 3+3+6, 6 of these on the right side

1 of 12 samples 70% Gleason 3+3=6

1 of 12 samples 60% Gleason 3+3=6

2 of 12 samples benign

CT scan and bone scan negative

Consultation at Johns Hopkins with Dr. Alan Partin 10/20/09

Open RRP at Johns Hopkins by Dr. Partin 11/06/09, right nerve bundle removed, left spared

One night in hospital, back to hotel room for three days before flying home

Foley catheter removed 11/16/09

Post-surgery pathology shows PCa was organ-contained, lymph nodes negative, seminal vesicles negative, Gleason score 3+3=6, stage T1b

First post-surgery PSA first week of February 2010. Using one pad during day and one at night as of 1/28/10

No luck with the erectile dysfunction.  Taking 50mg Viagara 3 times a week.  Doctor prescribed 100mg daily beginning 6 weeks after catheter removal, but I can't put up with the headaches and congestion. 

 

 

 

           


larryandangieohio
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 44
   Posted 1/30/2010 12:13 PM (GMT -6)   
Hello Everyone,
I've been trying to follow all the conversations about the pads/guards and I'm just more confused! No one ever talks about how much they are drinking, how many times they make runs to the bath room, or what their activity level is. I would think all three would be huge factors!

I’m only four weeks post op and still resting at home. On most days I’m sitting in a recliner making hourly trips to the bathroom and only using one pad per day. But on active days I may use three pads and fewer trips to the men’s room. I’ve been very lucky to be dry every night but I usually have two or three bathroom trips during the night.

As far as liquid intake, I’m guessing about 64 ounces per day (mostly fruit juices) and stopping all drinking two hours before bedtime.
How does this measure up to everyone else? Should I be being more active and thereby using more pads? What works for everyone else?
Larry

Age:58  PSA 8/06 8.74,  10/09 7.46,  12/22 6.50 Needle Biopsy  11/10/09: 16/16 cores positive 2 - 85% of tissue,

Gleason score 7 (3+4 with tertiary pattern 5). CT,Bone, and PET scans all negative.

Da Vinci laparoscopic prostatectomy performed on Jan. 07, 2010 at IU Simon Cancer Center…  Indianapolis, IN  Prostate size: 42 g Gleason score (primary + secondary):  4 + 3 = 7

Primary pattern (%):4, 60%  Secondary pattern (%): 3, 35%   Tertiary pattern (if present) (%): 5, 5%

Histologic type: Adenocarcinoma   Variant histology present: No   Multifocality: Yes

Extraprostatic extension: Yes   Seminal vesicle invasion: No   Cancer at surgical margin:No  

Bladder neck involvement: No    Lymph-vascular invasion: No    Perineural invasion: Yes

Catheter removed Jan-19-10  Dry Nights 2 pads/day  Baseline PSA checkup appt 2/3/10

 


LenB
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 102
   Posted 1/30/2010 12:32 PM (GMT -6)   
Larry,
 
You are doing very good.  At 4 weeks I was still using 8-10 pads per day one-2 at night.  My fluid intake is about the same as yours and my activity level is normal. I work from home so I am not out and about that much.
 
Currently I am on 2-4 pads per day Surgery was 9/10/09.  I think that I am beginning to make progress and the doc tells me I will probably be dry by April.  Everyone is different.  Some guys take a few weeks and some a few months.  I just started using the Cunningham Clamp (not bad) but I will only use it if I am going out of the house. The doc doesn't want me to become dependent on the clamp and stop my nerves, muscles and brain from reengaging in what they are supposed to be doing.
 
I hope this helped.
 
Len
Age: 65
DX: 7/10/09
Gleason: 7
Biopsey: 2 chips with some cancer cells out of 30.
Robotic Surgery: 9/10/09
Cath out: 9/23/09
1st post op PSA: 10/20/09 <0.1
2nd post op PSA:  1/25/10 <0.1
 


larryandangieohio
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 44
   Posted 1/30/2010 12:39 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi Len,
Thanks for the reply, I was thinking that everyone else was just more active and therefore used more pads. As for the clamp .... I have a friend here in Cincinnati that had surgery 7 weeks ahead of me. He is a truck driver and has been having a lot of leaking. His doc advised against the clamp also and for the same reasons.
Larry

Age:58  PSA 8/06 8.74,  10/09 7.46,  12/22 6.50 Needle Biopsy  11/10/09: 16/16 cores positive 2 - 85% of tissue,

Gleason score 7 (3+4 with tertiary pattern 5). CT,Bone, and PET scans all negative.

Da Vinci laparoscopic prostatectomy performed on Jan. 07, 2010 at IU Simon Cancer Center…  Indianapolis, IN  Prostate size: 42 g Gleason score (primary + secondary):  4 + 3 = 7

Primary pattern (%):4, 60%  Secondary pattern (%): 3, 35%   Tertiary pattern (if present) (%): 5, 5%

Histologic type: Adenocarcinoma   Variant histology present: No   Multifocality: Yes

Extraprostatic extension: Yes   Seminal vesicle invasion: No   Cancer at surgical margin:No  

Bladder neck involvement: No    Lymph-vascular invasion: No    Perineural invasion: Yes

Catheter removed Jan-19-10  Dry Nights 2 pads/day  Baseline PSA checkup appt 2/3/10

 


Mavica
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2008
Total Posts : 407
   Posted 1/31/2010 3:20 PM (GMT -6)   
There are no experts, no uniform formulas concerning this - because we are individually so different from one another that "standards" don't apply.  I, too, have had leaking-on-underwear problems, from time to time.  I've gone from dense pads to light ones as time has moved on.  Hopefully, I'll be through with the pads in several months.  In my situation, I've stuck to jockey shorts which keep the pads snug and tight - and I place the edge of the pad as high on the inside of the jockey briefs as space will allow.  I found that placing the pads lower made wearing them uncomfortable and also permitted leakage.  Best wishes for a full, happy recovery.

Age:  60 (58 at diagnosis - June, 2008)

April '08 PSA 4.8 ("free PSA" 7.9), up from 3.5 year prior

June '08 had biopsy, 2 days later told results positive but in less than 1% of sample

Gleason's 3+3=6

Developed sepsis 2 days post-biopsy, seriously ill in hospital for 3 days

Dr. recommended robotic removal using da Vinci

Surgery 9/10/08

Northwestern Memorial Hospital, Chicago, IL

Dr. Robert Nadler, Urologist/Surgeon

Post-op Gleason's:  3+3, Tertiary 4

Margins:  Free

Bladder & Urethral:  Free

Seminal vesicles:  Not involved

Lymphatic/Vascular Invasion:  Not involved

Tumor:  T2c; Location:  Bilateral; Volume:  20%

Catheter:  Removed 12-days after surgery

Incontinent:  Yes (1/2 light pads per day)

Combination of Cialis and MUSE (alprostadil) three times weekly started 9-27-08

Returned to work 9-29-08 (18-19 days post-op)

PSA test result, post-op, 10/08: 0.0; 12/08: 0.0; 4/09: 0.0; 9/09: 0.0

 


Worried Guy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 3732
   Posted 1/31/2010 3:46 PM (GMT -6)   
Larryandangieohio,

I measure everythijng. I have more data on my pee production than NASA has on ISS missions.
If I am working from home, I drink 10-12 oz for breakfast, 10-12 lunch and 10-12 dinner and 8 oz just before bed.
If I am going out I cut way back on fluids 8 oz breakfast, 6 oz lunch, and 8-9 oz if I am out or 12-14 if I am home. I will drink a full 16 oz just before bed to make up for the loss. I get up once during the night and pee with such force I wake up my wife. (I'm so proud of that sound.)
Lately, I have been leaking about 10 oz per day - more if I am active, less If I am sitting. I do not leak if I sit or lie down. When I kegel I can make it to the bathroom with a constant but low level of leak. For me, no level of kegeling will stop the drip completely. It comes close, but never stops. If I relax - out it comes. Clearly the connection is there but there is something preventing complete closure. Being the engineeer I figured it is equivalent to a 70 um pinhole - a little bigger than the cross section of a hair.
Typically I will pee about 10x per day and 1x at night.
Your mileage will vary.
Jeff
I have all my data on an excel spreadsheet with plots. Yep, more data than NASA for sure.
DX Age 56. First routine PSA test on April 8th: 17.8. Start 2 weeks of Cipro to rule out protatitis.
May PSA: 22.6, 3 weeks later: PSA: 23.2.
Biopsy 6/10/09: 7/12 scores positive, 20%-70%, Gleason 6=3+3. Bone scan and C/T scan negative.
RP DaVinci -7/21/2009 @ Univ of Roch Medical Center
Left nerve gone, right partial spared.
Catheter removed - 7/31/2009 Pathology report received:
Gleason 3+4=7, Tumor size: 2.5 x 1.8 cm, location: both lobes and apex.
Extraprostatic extension present; Perineural invasion: present, extensive.
No Malignancy in Seminal Vesicle, vasa deferentia, lymph nodes 0/13
Prostate mass 56 grams. Pathologic Stage: pT3aN0MX
Post Surgery Status:
Potency - 12/11 5 months, Still no activity, zip. Using pump daily since 11/11. No effect with 20 mg of Cialis or 100 mg of Viagra. Shots next? See Uro 1/22/10 Trimix unsuccessful.
Incontinence - 8/20 4 full pads per day
.. 9/7 3-4 full pads per day (Try cutting down on fluids. Bad idea. I know.)
11/14 4 months: Still 3 pads per day. 420ml/day, 91 um leak.
12/11 5 months: Still 3 pads per day. 400-450ml/day
1/11/10 6 months: Still 3 pads but leak is now 320 ml (5 day avg.)
Post Surgery PSA - 9/3 6 weeks - 0.05; 10/13 3 months - 0.04, 1/14 6 months - 0.05.


tatt2man
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 2842
   Posted 2/1/2010 8:06 AM (GMT -6)   
hiya guys
- thanks for the tips and ideas regarding leakage - I was doing well until this last week - in which I seemed to have to change my pants and pads three times a day - night time is fine - I got a male urinal bottle to keep in the bedroom ( to avoid having to go down a flight of stairs to the bathroom) - last night collection was 32 oz - :o -even though last fluid - 8 oz of water was a 8pm... and pee'd twice at bedtime ...
-will try the upside down routine for the pad today - mr. happy was always a right-dresser and that is where he leaks - so pad will be off to that side - I am an analytical type to but get bored - so will let Jeff be the NASA liason.
dry hugs ( for the moment)
BRONSON

P.S. I do like kegel as a verb ! :)
.................
Age: 54 - gay - with spouse, Steve - 59
PSA: 04/2007- 1.68 - 08/2009 - 3.46 - 10/2009 - 3.86
Confirmation of Prostate Cancer: October 16, 2009 - 6 of 12 cancerous samples , Gleason 7 (4+3)
Doctor: Dr. Mohamed Elharram -Urologist / Surgeon - Peterborough Regional Health Centre
Radical Prostatectomy Operation: November 18, 2009 , home - November 21, 2009
Post Surgery Biopsy: pT3a- gleason 7 - extraprostatic extension - perineural invasion - prostate weight - 34.1gm -
ED Prescription: Jan 8/2010 - started daily 5mg cialis
location: Peteborough, Ontario, Canada
............


goodlife
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 2691
   Posted 2/1/2010 8:33 AM (GMT -6)   
I found that putting a pad in my shoe really helps when I can't keep willie where he belongs. He likes it down there !
Age 58, PSA 4.47 Biopsy - 2/12 cores , Gleason 4 + 5 = 9
Da Vinci, Cleveland Clinic  4/14/09   Nerves spared, but carved up a little.
0/23 lymph nodes involved  pT3a NO MX
Catheter and 2 stints in ureters for 2 weeks .
Neg Margins, bladder neck negative
Living the Good Life, cancer free  6 week PSA  <.03
3 month PSA <.01 (different lab)
5 month PSA <.03 (undetectable)
6 Month PSA <.01
1 pad a day, no progress on ED.  Trimix injection
No pads, 1/1/10


cocrgolfer
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 171
   Posted 2/1/2010 2:04 PM (GMT -6)   
Len,
A P.S. to my previous advice.......you can use the Tena underwear AND put a pad in them. That saves the expensive Tena, let's you use a pad, and you have double protection.

Steve
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