this seems to be a get it done group? any watchful waiters here?.

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Berdoo/Arkansas
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 183
   Posted 2/13/2010 9:36 PM (GMT -6)   
This group seems all fired up to get the job done even though the statistics in the last few years show little increase in life span, or 5 saved out of 100 treated. I realize if you are one of the 5, it is significant!!
But 95% with incont and ed etc. very significant quality of life issues at stake here.

Too bad there is no way of telling if the cancer will hurt you or not?

berdoo
age 67 psa 2.5 for 10 years and now 4.5 for a year and firmness on right side,
no symptoms

Cajun Jeff
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 4119
   Posted 2/13/2010 10:47 PM (GMT -6)   
Berdoo, I am hearing you loud and clear. We have a few that are on AS. Many of us have thought about AS but do not have the nerve to wait it our. I for one have seen my grandfather die from PC and made the choice to rip it out. This was just my personal choice.

You said it best "too bad there is not way of telling if the cancer will hurt you or not?"

I have too much to live for!

Jeff T
Cajun country
Jeff T Age 57

9/08 PSA 5.4, referred to Urologist
9/08 Biopsy: GS 3/4=7
10/08 Nerve sparing open RRP- Path Report: GS 3+3=7 Stg. pT2c, margins clear
3 mts: PSA .05 undetectable

10th month PSA <0.01
1year psa <0.01
ED- 5 mg Cialis daily, pump daily, going to try MUSE next. Next step injections.
15 months out injections Caveject (success)


profman
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 55
   Posted 2/13/2010 10:55 PM (GMT -6)   
Another reason to get the biopsy - there are certain criteria for going on AS - Gleason score, % involvement, PSA level - I considered it, but it was ruled out by results of 2nd biopsy
Diagnosed 9/4/09, age 59
PSA 3.5, up from 1.8 year before
First biopsy showed 3/10 positive cores, Gleason 3+3, less than 10% involvement in all three cores, diagnosed as T2a
Doc and I decided on Active Surveillance, pending a confirmatory biopsy
Second biopsy showed 5/10 positive cores, Gleason 3+3, left side (4 postitive cores) had 40% involvement
RRP on 12/15/09
Home on 12/16/09
Failed cystogram on 12/23/09, catheter out on 12/29/09
Path report was all good news, Gleason 3+3, no margin involvement, no perineural involvement, everything clean other than core of prostate, tumor on both sides, but more prevalent on left side, 5% involvement, 42 gram organ
Within two days down to one pad a day, now continent except if I sleep more than four hours
Back to work 1/4/10
First PSA 1/28/10 - nondetectable, next scheduled June 2, 2010
ED present, although blood does flow after Viagra. working with pump now - still trying!


goodlife
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 2692
   Posted 2/13/2010 11:05 PM (GMT -6)   
Not sure where you are getting your stats, but generally radiation, seeds, or surgery are in the 90 % cure rates. Ed and incontinence are in the 40 to 50 % range, depending on several factors.
Goodlife
 
Age 58, PSA 4.47 Biopsy - 2/12 cores , Gleason 4 + 5 = 9
Da Vinci, Cleveland Clinic  4/14/09   Nerves spared, but carved up a little.
0/23 lymph nodes involved  pT3a NO MX
Catheter and 2 stints in ureters for 2 weeks .
Neg Margins, bladder neck negative
Living the Good Life, cancer free  6 week PSA  <.03
3 month PSA <.01 (different lab)
5 month PSA <.03 (undetectable)
6 Month PSA <.01
1 pad a day, no progress on ED.  Trimix injection
No pads, 1/1/10,  9 month PSA < .01


Tudpock18
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Sep 2008
Total Posts : 4274
   Posted 2/14/2010 8:23 AM (GMT -6)   

Berdoo, yes there are a lot of guys here who push to "get the job done".  For some men there is a huge pyschological urge to "get it out", whatever the science or side effects might be.  However, there are also a few men here who are using Active Surveillance as their treatment of choice are are doing quite well.  I personally would have chosen that route if my statistics had been better.  Here are the guidelines for Active Surveilance as used by the Johns Hopkins program:

1.  Age 60+.

2.  T1C, i.e. nothing felt on DRE.

3.  PSA density of .1 or less (this is PSA divided by size of prostate, e.g. PSA of 3 divided by prostate size of 35cc equals PSA density of .086 which is less than the .1 threshhold.

4.  Gleason 6 or less.

5.  2 or fewer cores of cancer.

6.  No core with more than 50% cancer involvment.

Other programs may have sligtly different guidelines.  In any case, this choice is always made post biopsy....so you and your doctors know what you are dealing with and you can make an informed choice.  Otherwise you are just playing Russian roulette.

Tudpock


Age 62, Gleason 4 +3 = 7, T1C, PSA 4.2, 2 of 16 cores cancerous, 27cc
Brachytherapy December 9, 2008.  73 Iodine-125 seeds.  Procedure went great, catheter out before I went home, only minor discomfort.  Regular activities resumed, everything continues to function normally as of 12/09.  6 month PSA 1.4 and now 1 year PSA at 1.0.  My docs are "delighted"!

zampilot
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 152
   Posted 2/14/2010 8:54 AM (GMT -6)   
Berdoo, no offense to the A.S. guys but I believe the only way to get rid of the PCa is to get rid of it, aggressivley. If one cell escaped I am screwed in the long run anyway. I view A.S. as wishfull thinking, carried out while the cells grow and multiply, maybe even mutate into 4's or 5's. What do you do then? A.S. may be fine for a much older man, but not for me.

Uncle Harley
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 85
   Posted 2/14/2010 9:21 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi Berdoo, I'm one of the few A.S. members here. How can I help you? My stats & quality of life concerns led me to choose this route. If things change, then I'll have to make a decision for what treatment to employ.
PSA History
3/99 1.2
3/00 1.04
3/01 1.16
7/02 1.24
2/06 1.59
3/07 1.79
3/08 2.54
8/08 2.3
4/09 2.3
7/09 2.6
12/09 2.3
12 needle prostate biopsy Jan 09
Dx of (1) core adenocarcinoma 20%
Negative DRE
All other cores benign
Gleason 3+3 T1C
12 needle prostate biopsy Dec 09
Dx of (2) core adenocarcinoma 10% each
All others benign
Gleason 3+3 T1C on each
Currently in Active Surveillence W/ Dr Approval
Age 60


Tudpock18
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Sep 2008
Total Posts : 4274
   Posted 2/14/2010 9:55 AM (GMT -6)   

Zampilot, you are certainly welcome to your opinion but it is out of sync with much modern urological thinking.  Some of the best and most well known SURGEONS even recommend AS as a safe and effective course of action.  In any case, our new friend Berdoo is not quite ready for any choice (IMHO) since he doen't even know if he has PCa.

Tudpock

P.S. to Zampilot...where are your stats?  Are you a PCa survivor?


Age 62, Gleason 4 +3 = 7, T1C, PSA 4.2, 2 of 16 cores cancerous, 27cc
Brachytherapy December 9, 2008.  73 Iodine-125 seeds.  Procedure went great, catheter out before I went home, only minor discomfort.  Regular activities resumed, everything continues to function normally as of 12/09.  6 month PSA 1.4 and now 1 year PSA at 1.0.  My docs are "delighted"!

zampilot
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 152
   Posted 2/14/2010 10:10 AM (GMT -6)   
Doing nothing is always an alternative, it's known as Active Surveilance in the PCa world. I'm not out of sync with anything at all, neither is my urologist (the best in the state and that includes Mayo) he is also my surgeon, so unless you have credentials exceeding his you should just stick to your stats and keep your presumptive comments to yourself.
I chose not to sit with my fingers crossed and wait and wait and wait. Or go the non-surgery vanity route. Or be an Internet Board Star. My stats are my business. Why do you question my credibilty?

Tudpock18
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Sep 2008
Total Posts : 4274
   Posted 2/14/2010 10:20 AM (GMT -6)   
Active Surveillance is not "doing nothing".  And, choosing a non-surgical approach is not "vanity"...when you make statements that are not credible, you should not be surprised when someone questions or disputes them....chill out.
 
Tudpock
Age 62, Gleason 4 +3 = 7, T1C, PSA 4.2, 2 of 16 cores cancerous, 27cc
Brachytherapy December 9, 2008.  73 Iodine-125 seeds.  Procedure went great, catheter out before I went home, only minor discomfort.  Regular activities resumed, everything continues to function normally as of 12/09.  6 month PSA 1.4 and now 1 year PSA at 1.0.  My docs are "delighted"!

Casey59
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 3172
   Posted 2/14/2010 10:31 AM (GMT -6)   
Yeah, zampilot, your comments are a litte behind the times. Today, we realize that not all PC is the same. Lots of guys are successfully "treated" through the Active Surveillance techniques...emphasis on the "Active" part (very different from "doing nothing" or sitting with finger crossed). And the successes are growing in numbers. My crystal ball says many more will go that route in the future. Of course, the key to success is the improved capability to identify men who are candidates for AS...not everyone is.

Berdoo, there are quite a number of guys who periodically visit this site on AS.

best regards...

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25393
   Posted 2/14/2010 10:39 AM (GMT -6)   
zampilot:

If you really believe that AS is "doing nothing", then you totally don't understand the concept and methodoligy behind it. It is an indirect treatment method by the very nature of it. And for the men fortunate enough to qualify safely for it, they can be spared more direct treatments like surgery and/or radiation methods for years, and perhaps for the rest of their lifetime. Sucess with AS usually is proof that they are dealing with a low grade cancer which is staying indollent. That can only be viewed as a good thing.

What is this "non-surgery vanity route" you speak of? What do you mean "Internet Board Star?"

You sound extremely hostile here. Please post your personal stats too, that is proper protocal here.

I am an open surgery guy and have had salvage radiation and still dealing with complications. Uncle Harley is a good example of AS.
Tudpock is a good example of someone that chose "seeding". Different treatment methods for different people for different reasons.

You need to be open minded to the whole process.

P.S. My friend. Having surgery to have it "agressively taken out of your body" doesn't always work either. I had a first class surgeon in a first class hospital. My surgery failed within 9 months. I have just been through 2 grueling months of salvage radiation, and its already possible that it has failed too. So there is no certainty or guarantee that whatever you choose will work. At least nothing that a doctor is going to put in writing.

David in SC
Age: 57, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 7/08 12.3, 9/08 14.5, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 - 7/7 Positive, 40-90% Cancer, Gleason 4+3
Open RP: 11/08, Rht nerves saved, 4 days in hospt, on catheters for 63 days, 5th one out 1/09
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin
Incontinence:  1 Month     ED:  Non issue at any point post surgery
Post Surgery  PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12
Latest: 7/9 met 2 rad. oncl, 7/9 cath #6 - blockage, 8/9 2nd corr surgery, 8/9 cath #7 out 38 days, 9/9 - met 3rd rad. oncl., mapped  9/9, 10/1 - 3rd corr. surgery - SP cath/hard dialation, 10/5 - 11/27 IMRT SRT 39 sess/72 gys ,cath #8 33 days, Cath #9 35 days, 12/7 - Cath #10 43 days, 1/19 - Corr Surgery #4,  Caths #11 and #12 in at the same time, 2/8-Cath #11 out - 21 days


architectman
New Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 5
   Posted 2/14/2010 10:44 AM (GMT -6)   
I wish I could say I was a member of the watch and wait club. But unfortunately, I felt strong pressure from friends, family and especially my medical team to proceed with what they strongly insisted was the only course of action they would even consider, the DaVinci radical prostatectomy. I was having severe anxiety attacks and felt very strongly that my condition did not necessitate such an extreme and barbaric procedure at this stage. And that in my late 40's, I was WAY too young to have to deal with incontinence and the end of sexual life as I new it. (Which in the very best scenarios is what WILL happen) I kick myself every single day that I made a rash and hasty decision for no reason. I have not had an erection in four months since my surgery, even trying all three pills and the MUSE suppositories. I wish I had followed my intense gut reaction and not my doctor's advice. The TINY, almost impossibly miniscule amount of cancer in only one out of 12 biopsy samples the size of a pin point did not worry me AT ALL, but incontinence, erectile disfunction and penile shrinkage all scared the hell out of me. I should have been counseled that watch and wait was a valid course of action for my specific condition, and I should have taken that course regardless of high pressure from anyone else. Especially in light of the pathology report, which found no cancer at all in the prostate post surgery! I am so frustrated and so ANGRY every day! The side effects are SO down played in discussions with the surgeon (or more likely, his nurse), and no real concern is shown about treatment for ED and penile rehab. Don't believe anyone who extolls the benefits of an erection-less orgasm, and an orgasm without ejaculation is nothing like pre-surgery orgasm. NO CLIMAX!

Very Unhappy Architectman
Diagnosed July 2009 adenocarcinoma of the prostate, T1c,PSA 4.5, biopsy (July 13, 2009) showed small focus of prostatic adenocarcinoma, gleason score 3+3=6 involving 1% out of 1 of 12 cores.DaVinci Surgery (October 1, 20009, Northwestern, Nadler, "excellent bilateral nerve sparing was carried out" (his words)) pathology showed no cancer at all!! PSAs at two weeks, one month and three months 0.0. Pad free (mostly) finally at 3 1/2 months. Total ED from surgery, with no sign at all of any pending return of life at four months. No response at all from V, L or C at full strength & empty stomach with plenty of manual and visual stimulation. No response to early use of MUSE.


Redman55
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 87
   Posted 2/14/2010 10:53 AM (GMT -6)   
AS is definitely an alternative, and as posted, scores are the key. At age 54, with a gleason 8 - aggressive, my decision was easy - out the puppy goes. Dean Ornish published a lot on passive approach through diet and stress control etc. He's an expert on reversing heart disease, and has applied the same to PC. Look him up as he is a big AS advocate, and the medical community has come around to many of his conclusions in the past.

Again, per my limited understanding, age and score with biopsy are the key. And, we each have to make our own call.
Age 54
PSA 8/2009 5.6 Gleason 8
DaVinci surgery 11/2009
Pathology - totally contained in margins -one bundle spared
PSA now undetectable at < .05
Continance: Night and morning fine and improving
Doing 3 P's and now using trimix


Ziggy9
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 981
   Posted 2/14/2010 11:44 AM (GMT -6)   
This is a pleasant surprise. Not too long ago Zampilot's opinion would have been the norm in a thread like this. True it would have been conveyed less arrogantly but would have been the most popular. The fact that more than the normal two or less are in support of AS indicated times have changed. I remember being quite alone here in supporting the first pro AS news releases.

Architectman your tragic story should be pointed out to all those who rush to treatment the minimal 6 weeks after biopsy, to just to take some time to research and educate yourself before making a lifetime decision. I swear many I've seen here in the past couple of years take more time in deciding on buying a vehicle than they do choosing radical PCa treatments. As I always said afterward there aren't any do overs. For many treating initial anxiety is a bigger factor than treating low risk PCa rationally. There are many new less invasive treatments also on the horizon that will soon be more acceptable options to treat low risk PCa than what is available for most now. My TFT is a prime example. BTW I agreed to another normal biopsy next week for the clinical study. It will be my fourth but I knew I was a guinea pig when I signed up two years ago. I always wonder when mentioning a few more biopsies of those who would post I rather go through radical surgery than have more biopsies. I never could understand the thinking how 10 - 12 minutes of slight discomfort is worse than surgery, incontinence of any length, pads, likely ED, dry orgasms etc. Meanwhile my worse experience was a catheter for 4 days after targeted cryosurgery. Then viagara a few times which I no longer need, gave me a headache. The only permanent effect seems to be less semen ejaculated than before. I can live with that.

I'll be posting the next biopsy results soon. I was supposed to have it done next month but next week works out better for me.
Diagnosed 11/08/07 - Age: 58 - 3 of 12 @5%
Psa: 2.3 - 3+3=6 - Size: 34g -T-2-A
 
2/22/08 - 3D Mapping Saturation Biopsy - 1 of 45 @2% - Psa:2.1 - 3+3=6 - 28g after taking Avodart - Catheter for 1 day -Good Candidate for TFT(Targeted Focal Therapy) Cryosurgery(Ice Balls) - Clinical Research Study
 
4/22/08 - TFT performed at University of Colorado Medical Center - Catheter for 4 days - Slight soreness for 2 weeks but afterward life returns as normal
 
7/30/08 - Psa: .32
11/10/08 - Psa.62 - Not unexpected bounce after the 80% drop the quarter earlier. Along with urine flow readings, an acceptable amount left in bladder measured by sonic. Results warrant skipping third quarter tests, and to return April, 2009 for final biopsy scheduled to
complete clinical research study 
 
April 2009 12 of 12 Negative biopsy
10/12/09 - Psa .30
 
 
 


hb2006
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 299
   Posted 2/14/2010 12:34 PM (GMT -6)   
I agree with all the posts but would like to add the additional factor of family history. If your father or grand father had to have the surgery, it's a whole new ball game. My dad had even more agressive PC at the age of 70, had to do the open Surgery, Radiation Treatments and his PSA still bounces around at the age of 85. He is still alive but I didn't want to go through his experience.
 
So the surgery was an easy choice for me. I never had an issue with incontinence and the ED is controlled/resolved. Although I was using Viagra and Cialis before the PC came along.
 
Good luck....
Age 60, PSA 2007 4.1, PSA 2008 10.0
Diagnosed April 2008, Biopsy: 6 of 12 cores positive, Gleason 4 + 5 = 9
CT and Bone Scan negative, Open surgery at Shawnee Mission Medical Center May 21, 2008
Right side nerves spared, Radical prostatectomy and lymph node dissection
Cather removed on June 3rd, totally dry on July 9th, pT2c, lymph nodes negative
PSA Sept 28, 2008 0.00, PSA Jan 22, 2009 0.00, PSA June 29, 2009 0.00
ED Status- Currently using Trimix, Levitra daily for increased blood flow.
Noctural Erections have completely returned on a nightly basis, same hardness as before.


John T
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 4269
   Posted 2/14/2010 1:10 PM (GMT -6)   
Real Ziggy,
I totally agree with you. When I first started to research PC about a 14 months ago I was surprised at what the data on AS was showing, and also surprised that very few docotors and patients supported it. This was a complete disconnect. An option that was safe from side affects, had very good chances of never being treated, and if treated had the exact same cure rate as immediate treatment. If you are on the short end of the odds the worst was that you bought a couple of years free from side affects, and if you were on the long side you never needed treatment. Few options in life present such clear wins.
In just the last year the word seems to be getting out with Drs like Scardino, and Walsh saying that maybe we are treating too many men that don't have to be treated.
You just have to read this forum and realize that 50% of the posts relate to dealing with side affects. If they weren't important then why are they so prevelent and need discussion. If any of the treatments didn't have side affects that ruin men's quality of life it would be a completely different issue, but it many cases the side affects are much worse than anything the disease could have caused.
A patient's chances of dieing of a low risk PC is virtually zero. We have to continue educating patients, and especially doctors that low risk PC should be watched, and treated only when it becomes apparent that it is progressing. This is a safe and reasonable option, and fear and lack of education are causing many PC brothers to suffer needlessly.
JohnT

64 years old.

PSA rising for 10 years to 40, free psa 10-15. Had 5 urologists, 12 biopsies and MRIS all neg. Doctors DXed BPH and continue to get biopsies yearly. 13th biopsy positive in 10-08, 2 cores of 25, G6 less than 5%. Scheduled for surgery as recommended by Urological Oncologist.

2nd Opinion from Dr Sholtz, a Prostate Oncologist, said DX wrong, pathology shows indolant cancer, but psa history indicates large cancer or metastasis. Futher tests and Color Doppler confirmed large transition zone tumor that 13 biopsies and MRIS missed. G7, 4+3, approx 16mmX18mm.

Combidex MRI in Holland eliminated lymphnode mets. Casodex and Proscar reduced psa to 0.6 and prostate from 60mm to 32mm. Changed diet, no meat and dairy. All staging tests indicate that tumor is local and non agressive. (PAP, PCA3, MRIS, Color Doppler, Combidex, tumor reaction to diet and Casodex, and tumor location in transition zone). Surgery a poor option because tumor is located next to the urethea and positive margin is very likely; permanent incontenance is also high probability with surgery.

Seed implants on 5-19-09, 3 hours door to door, no pain, minor side affects are frequency and urgency; very controlable with Flowmax and lasted 4 weeks. Daily activities resumed day after implants with no restrictions. Gold markers implanted with seeds to guide IMRT.

25 treatments of IMRT 6 weeks after seed implants. No side affects at all.

PSA at end of treatment 0.02 mostly the result of Casodex. When I stop Casodex next week expect PSA to rise. Next PSA in November. Treatments and side affects have greatly exceeded my expectations. Glad to have this 11 year journey finally conclude.

JohnT


Ziggy9
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 981
   Posted 2/14/2010 1:30 PM (GMT -6)   
John I first arrived( Nov 2007- I know my date is now July 2008 but that was because I was kicked out due to complaining about censorship here under my original name of ziggy9, but I digress) I was leaning towards radical surgery. but unlike many men who come here and are soon convinced to go under the knife asap it had the opposite effect on me. Back then there were a couple of new guys who after surgery were having major incontinence problems. One still does and the other I don't know but they scared the hell out of me and made me really think of all the options. Lucky for me soon after a local TV newsman who was dx with PCa in early 2007 did a news special of his case and all the treatment options. He too was horrified with the after effects and wouldn't accept them. He was how I first learned of TFT and clinical trials. The local university is on the cutting edge with many trials and through his broadcast I not only learned of then, but ended up going to his doctor who is also the director of research. It turned out the newsman and I had a similar case of PCa.

hb2 all my opinions are directed towards the many men who have low risk dx . You make an excellent point about family histories that should be taken into account. I didn't have that as far as I know. But seriously do many of us know if fathers, uncles etc had PCa? Most would die of something else and there weren't PSA tests for them either. So we'll never know in many cases unless they died of Pca.
Diagnosed 11/08/07 - Age: 58 - 3 of 12 @5%
Psa: 2.3 - 3+3=6 - Size: 34g -T-2-A
 
2/22/08 - 3D Mapping Saturation Biopsy - 1 of 45 @2% - Psa:2.1 - 3+3=6 - 28g after taking Avodart - Catheter for 1 day -Good Candidate for TFT(Targeted Focal Therapy) Cryosurgery(Ice Balls) - Clinical Research Study
 
4/22/08 - TFT performed at University of Colorado Medical Center - Catheter for 4 days - Slight soreness for 2 weeks but afterward life returns as normal
 
7/30/08 - Psa: .32
11/10/08 - Psa.62 - Not unexpected bounce after the 80% drop the quarter earlier. Along with urine flow readings, an acceptable amount left in bladder measured by sonic. Results warrant skipping third quarter tests, and to return April, 2009 for final biopsy scheduled to
complete clinical research study 
 
April 2009 12 of 12 Negative biopsy
10/12/09 - Psa .30
 
 
 

Post Edited (realziggy) : 2/14/2010 11:38:43 AM (GMT-7)


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25393
   Posted 2/14/2010 3:52 PM (GMT -6)   
architect's sad case above should be a wake up call for anyone with a fresh PC diagnosis. With 1% cancer in 1 core only, that is about as low grade as it could possibly be. with that being said, one would think a person would want to really take their time and wade through all the possible choices, including AS. a person shouldn't be talked into any treatment, whether it be their other half, another relative, friend, doctor, specialist, etc, because ultimately, the decision to have surgery or any treatment, will come down to the patient himself, and he will forever have to live with that decision, and its consequences if any in the future.

in my time here at hw, there have been plenty of men that raced into surgery, that probably never would need it. there have been men that wouldn't even consider any other treatment method. of course, there are men that needed surgery, and their numbers justify it as their primary treatment.

i haven't seen a single person come here, with a case so bad, that they wouldnt' be allowed the proper time to examine their situations with a clear head, and be exposed to learning about all available treatment plans on the table, including AS.

david in sc
Age: 57, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 7/08 12.3, 9/08 14.5, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 - 7/7 Positive, 40-90% Cancer, Gleason 4+3
Open RP: 11/08, Rht nerves saved, 4 days in hospt, on catheters for 63 days, 5th one out 1/09
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin
Incontinence:  1 Month     ED:  Non issue at any point post surgery
Post Surgery  PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12
Latest: 7/9 met 2 rad. oncl, 7/9 cath #6 - blockage, 8/9 2nd corr surgery, 8/9 cath #7 out 38 days, 9/9 - met 3rd rad. oncl., mapped  9/9, 10/1 - 3rd corr. surgery - SP cath/hard dialation, 10/5 - 11/27 IMRT SRT 39 sess/72 gys ,cath #8 33 days, Cath #9 35 days, 12/7 - Cath #10 43 days, 1/19 - Corr Surgery #4,  Caths #11 and #12 in at the same time, 2/8-Cath #11 out - 21 days


zampilot
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 152
   Posted 2/14/2010 4:17 PM (GMT -6)   
I know two men who were advised A.S. in the last 6 years. One went to BT three years ago, now has had removal, one is now in the last 2 years of the 5 they gave him a year after AS was advised. Fun huh? For you proponents of doing nothing, what will you say future when the Doc tells you things have changed and you now need radiation/hormone therapy? In case you don't get it, you will then be terminal. Arrogant? No just matter of fact, realistic, non-cheerleader. Sorry if that hurts your ego or feelings, but that happens....edited.... occaisionaly.
A.S. is for wishful thinkers. Don't like my opinions? Too bad, I'm not here to be a "you'll make it, fight the tough battle etc" cheerleaders who post that to make no one but themselves feel good. Want an honest opinion of what I've done, side-effects etc? That's why I post.

post edited to remove Rules Violation, Rule #4.
No posts that attack, insult, "flame", defame, or abuse members or non-members. Respect other members of the community and don’t belittle, make fun off, or insult another member or non-member. Decisions about health and well-being are highly personal, individual choices. "Flaming" and insults, however, will not be tolerated. Agree to disagree. This applies to both the forums and chat. James C.

Post Edited By Moderator (James C.) : 2/14/2010 2:25:33 PM (GMT-7)


James C.
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4463
   Posted 2/14/2010 4:26 PM (GMT -6)   
Ok, guys , lets calm it down and get back to support and help, which is the main purpose of this Forum.
James C. Age 62
Co-Moderator- Prostate Cancer Forum
4/07 PSA 7.6, referred to Urologist, recheck 6.7
7/07 Biopsy: 3 of 16 PCa, 5% involved, left lobe, GS 3/3=6
9/07 Nerve sparing open RRP 110gms.- Path Report: GS 3+3=6 Stg. pT2c, 110gms, margins clear
32 mts: PSA's: .04 each test since surgery, ED Continues-Bimix .3ml PRN or Trimix .15ml PRN


Tudpock18
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Sep 2008
Total Posts : 4274
   Posted 2/14/2010 4:27 PM (GMT -6)   

Obviously Zampilot's vast knowledge of 2 AS cases trumps the opinions of novices like Scardino and Walsh.  But, one of the beauties of HW is that everyone is entitled to their opinions and I think his speak for themselves...

Tud


Age 62, Gleason 4 +3 = 7, T1C, PSA 4.2, 2 of 16 cores cancerous, 27cc
Brachytherapy December 9, 2008.  73 Iodine-125 seeds.  Procedure went great, catheter out before I went home, only minor discomfort.  Regular activities resumed, everything continues to function normally as of 12/09.  6 month PSA 1.4 and now 1 year PSA at 1.0.  My docs are "delighted"!

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25393
   Posted 2/14/2010 4:28 PM (GMT -6)   
zampilot:

where is all the anger and hostility coming from? you certainly don't need to be taking out on the rank and file members here, they have done nothing wrong to you. your opinion(s) are as welcome as the next person. you sound like you are in a one-person fight, with no one to fight but yourself.

why don't you post your signature, that is one way of getting respect for your views, to show your journey to others, its adds credibility, and might add some understanding why you are being the way that you are.

you said a.s. is for wishful thinkers, but you meant to say a.s. is for thinkers, for the men with low or minimal numbers, for men that will take responsibility for taking an active role in watching their numbers and situation. you have it all wrong, its not a case of doing nothing, its a case of doing something, something that might delay for years, or forever, doing something that is going to mess up your quality of life as you know it forever.

you say at the end "want an honest opinion of what I've done, side-effects etc?" Sure, then post your story, and your journey, tell us what you did.

but if HW makes you that hostile and upset, you might be better served by not reading here and not posting here, that is certainly your free choice as well.

david in sc
Age: 57, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 7/08 12.3, 9/08 14.5, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 - 7/7 Positive, 40-90% Cancer, Gleason 4+3
Open RP: 11/08, Rht nerves saved, 4 days in hospt, on catheters for 63 days, 5th one out 1/09
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin
Incontinence:  1 Month     ED:  Non issue at any point post surgery
Post Surgery  PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12
Latest: 7/9 met 2 rad. oncl, 7/9 cath #6 - blockage, 8/9 2nd corr surgery, 8/9 cath #7 out 38 days, 9/9 - met 3rd rad. oncl., mapped  9/9, 10/1 - 3rd corr. surgery - SP cath/hard dialation, 10/5 - 11/27 IMRT SRT 39 sess/72 gys ,cath #8 33 days, Cath #9 35 days, 12/7 - Cath #10 43 days, 1/19 - Corr Surgery #4,  Caths #11 and #12 in at the same time, 2/8-Cath #11 out - 21 days


James C.
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4463
   Posted 2/14/2010 4:32 PM (GMT -6)   
Ok, guys , lets calm it down and get back to support and help, which is the main purpose of this Forum.
James C. Age 62
Co-Moderator- Prostate Cancer Forum
4/07 PSA 7.6, referred to Urologist, recheck 6.7
7/07 Biopsy: 3 of 16 PCa, 5% involved, left lobe, GS 3/3=6
9/07 Nerve sparing open RRP 110gms.- Path Report: GS 3+3=6 Stg. pT2c, 110gms, margins clear
32 mts: PSA's: .04 each test since surgery, ED Continues-Bimix .3ml PRN or Trimix .15ml PRN


Ziggy9
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 981
   Posted 2/14/2010 4:34 PM (GMT -6)   
zampilot said...
I know two men who were advised A.S. in the last 6 years. One went to BT three years ago, now has had removal, one is now in the last 2 years of the 5 they gave him a year after AS was advised. Fun huh? For you proponents of doing nothing, what will you say future when the Doc tells you things have changed and you now need radiation/hormone therapy? In case you don't get it, you will then be terminal. Arrogant? No just matter of fact, realistic, non-cheerleader. Sorry if that hurts your ego or feelings, but that happens....edited.... occaisionaly.
A.S. is for wishful thinkers. Don't like my opinions? Too bad, I'm not here to be a "you'll make it, fight the tough battle etc" cheerleaders who post that to make no one but themselves feel good. Want an honest opinion of what I've done, side-effects etc? That's why I post.

First of all without knowing what those two mens dx numbers were there's little for us to go on. AS is only recommended for those with low risk numbers or the elderly who have more pressing health concerns. According to you all PCAs terminal? Do you seriously believe that? Do you even have PCa? Why no dx numbers for you? For someone who claims to give an honest opinion you have zero credibility and basic knowledge of PCa it appears. ...............edited....................... Put up your dx numbers if you really want to establish some credibility here. If not.....

Post edited, Rule 4, no flaming, belittling, etc.
Ok, guys , lets calm it down and get back to support and help, which is the main purpose of this Forum.

Post Edited By Moderator (James C.) : 2/14/2010 5:34:40 PM (GMT-7)

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