A new drip, drip, drip question

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compiler
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 7205
   Posted 2/14/2010 1:07 PM (GMT -6)   

I cannot figure out if my incontinence problem is getting better or worse! I think perhaps better, but maybe some of you can relate to this.

My main symptom since catheter removal has been the allmighty squirt, squirt, squirt. That is VERY disconcerting. I’d be walking, doing okay, and then turn the corner and SQUIRT. I’d get up from sitting, expecting a squirt, but nothing happens...until 40 seconds later, then a squirt. It is also a very uncomfortable feeling. Incidentally, I was at 1 pad during the day and 1 at night which I used for security. I am now pretty much pad-free at night.

Fast forward to now. I am getting far fewer squirts, but it has been replaced by a drip, drip, drip. Yesterday starting in the early evening, I tried to go without a pad. It is easier to go to the bathroom that way and I was at home. But now I get the urgency to keep going to the bathroom for just a drop or two. It kind of feels like when you pee normally (the good old days) and after the main urination you just squeeze out an extra few little drops/squirts and your are done. Except I am not done. I have this annoyance (alias a few drops in my penis) and I go to the bathroom and get rid of the few drops. Literally, two minutes later, I have to do it again. Last night I probably did that 10 times in an hour. It’s just an annoying feeling.

Still, my gut is telling me that things are actually getting better since those annoying uncontrollable squirts are greatly diminished. I don’t think I have any infection.

Is this a different kind of incontinence (bladder irritation)? Or might this just be part of the improvement process (my hope)?

Mel


63 years old . PSA-- 3/08--2.90; 8/09--4.01; 11/09--4.19 (Free PSA 24%),  after 45 days on cipro! DREs have always been normal. PCA-3

Biopsy on 11/30/09. 5 out of 12 cores positive. Gleason 4+3. 2 cores were 3+3 (one 5% and the other 30%) on one side. On  other side:2 cores are 4+3 (5%)--1 core 3+4 (30%) no peri-neural invasion. prostate is 45 grams. Stage: T1C.  

Surgery with Dr. Menon at Ford Hospital, 1/26/10. He says all looked good. Spared nerves. Unfortunately: Pathology Report: G 4+3 (65%-35%). Cancer in 15% of gland. Lymph Nodes: Clear.  Perineural Invasion: yes. Seminal Vessical Involvement: No.  Extraprostatic Extension: yes.  Positive Margin: Yes-- focal-- 1 spot .5mm. Final Weight is 52.7 gms. 

 Incontinence: joined that club-- definite leaks—1 pad/day. Night is dry but using 1 pad at night for security.

Next Event: First post-op PSA on 3/1/10


goodlife
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 2691
   Posted 2/14/2010 2:02 PM (GMT -6)   
Mel,

I found that it was somewhat of a mental conditioning thing as well. For a while, my brain wasn't sure what I should do.

For me, I tried not to go, even tho I could spit some out. I don't get up at night, so my brain learns how to hold a full bladder. For the first few weeks, there seems to be confusion. I think you will find eventually you will get in synch with what you really need to do.

Most of my squirts or drips came when I was bending, or lifting my legs such as putting my socks on.

Overall, it sounds like you are doing ver well. I think you may need to give it a few more weeks , and try to build up more and more storage capability.
Goodlife
 
Age 58, PSA 4.47 Biopsy - 2/12 cores , Gleason 4 + 5 = 9
Da Vinci, Cleveland Clinic  4/14/09   Nerves spared, but carved up a little.
0/23 lymph nodes involved  pT3a NO MX
Catheter and 2 stints in ureters for 2 weeks .
Neg Margins, bladder neck negative
Living the Good Life, cancer free  6 week PSA  <.03
3 month PSA <.01 (different lab)
5 month PSA <.03 (undetectable)
6 Month PSA <.01
1 pad a day, no progress on ED.  Trimix injection
No pads, 1/1/10,  9 month PSA < .01


Worried Guy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 3732
   Posted 2/14/2010 2:29 PM (GMT -6)   
Mel,
Your body makes about 2000ml of urine per day but less at night. Let's call it 2400/24 or 100 ml per hour or 1.67 ml per minute. At 25 drips per ml = 40 drips per minute.
If it takes you a minute to pee you will generate another 40 drips. You are alive, so you are constantly producing urine. That's a good thing.

I guess my advice is hold it as long as you can and know that it will get better. You do realize that you are one lucky guy to be dry at night already. Congratulations.
Jeff
Married 34 years, DX Age 56. First routine PSA test on April 8, 09: 17.8. Start 2 weeks of Cipro to rule out protatitis. May '09 PSA: 22.6, 3 weeks later: PSA: 23.2.
Biopsy 6/10/09: 7/12 scores positive, 20%-70%, Gleason 6=3+3. Bone and C/T scans neg.
RP DaVinci -7/21/2009 @ Univ of Roch Medical Center
Left nerve gone, right partial spared.
Catheter removed - 7/31/2009 Pathology report received:
Gleason 3+4=7, Tumor size: 2.5 x 1.8 cm, location: both lobes and apex.
Extraprostatic extension present; Perineural invasion: present, extensive.
No Malignancy in Seminal Vesicle, vasa deferentia, lymph nodes 0/13
Prostate mass 56 grams. Pathologic Stage: pT3aN0MX
Post Surgery Status:
Potency - 12/11 5 months, Still no activity, zip. Using pump daily since 11/11. No effect with 20 mg of Cialis or 100 mg of Viagra. Shots, See Uro 1/22/10 Trimix unsuccessful.
Incontinence - 8/20 4 full pads per day
.. 9/7 3-4 full pads per day (Try cutting down on fluids. Bad idea. I know.)
11/14 4 months: Still 3 pads per day. 420ml/day, 91 um leak.
12/11 5 months: Still 3 pads per day. 400-450ml/day
1/11/10 6 months: Still 3 pads but leak is now 320 ml (5 day avg.)
Post Surgery PSA - 9/3 6 weeks - 0.05; 10/13 3 months - 0.04, 1/14 6 months - 0.05.


142
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 6949
   Posted 2/14/2010 2:39 PM (GMT -6)   
Mel,
I agree with goodlife's observations.

It may be that you just have not gotten to the point that the muscles actually close off the urethra. I had significant debris from the sutures up to about 8 weeks out, meaning that the scabbing was keeping things from closing up well, or so the doctor explained

That said, I've improved from 7-8 pads during the day to 2-3, sometimes just 1 for days in a row, at +16 weeks, but certain foods and drink basically open the floodgates (i.e. cause bladder irritation), and its like day 1. Not really sure what all the worst offenders are, but orange juice is a real killer, and a good dill pickle is not far behind on the list. Both have been favorites for years, so there is a bit of willpower to say no to them. Coke and beer, tried a week ago, probably never will drink them again either.

It gets better, but more slowly for some of us, it seems.

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 2/14/2010 2:40 PM (GMT -6)   
Thats why the average night bag "big bag" with catheters holds 2000 ml without back flowing, figuring it could hold the contents for a full day if needed without changing. Although I have a bag I call the "clown" bag, its the largest I have ever had, it holds 4000 ml.

The legs bags I have been given held between 200 ml, which is nothing and will keep you busy, to an average of 400 ml. The best one, and I kept it for 3 months, including both months of salvage radiation, held 800 ml. But boy, when it was getting full, you could feel the pull on whatever leg you had it attached to.
Age: 57, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 7/08 12.3, 9/08 14.5, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 - 7/7 Positive, 40-90% Cancer, Gleason 4+3
Open RP: 11/08, Rht nerves saved, 4 days in hospt, on catheters for 63 days, 5th one out 1/09
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin
Incontinence:  1 Month     ED:  Non issue at any point post surgery
Post Surgery  PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12
Latest: 7/9 met 2 rad. oncl, 7/9 cath #6 - blockage, 8/9 2nd corr surgery, 8/9 cath #7 out 38 days, 9/9 - met 3rd rad. oncl., mapped  9/9, 10/1 - 3rd corr. surgery - SP cath/hard dialation, 10/5 - 11/27 IMRT SRT 39 sess/72 gys ,cath #8 33 days, Cath #9 35 days, 12/7 - Cath #10 43 days, 1/19 - Corr Surgery #4,  Caths #11 and #12 in at the same time, 2/8-Cath #11 out - 21 days


tatt2man
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 2842
   Posted 2/14/2010 3:17 PM (GMT -6)   
congrats on the night time dryness !!

( I wish - on average night - after stopping fluids at 8:00pm - I am producing 16-32 oz from 10pm - 5am - waking up 2-4 times)

here's to increased capacity and making each motion a non-squirt issue

a not too tight hug
BRONSON
.................
Age: 54 - gay - with spouse, Steve - 59
PSA: 04/2007- 1.68 - 08/2009 - 3.46 - 10/2009 - 3.86
Confirmation of Prostate Cancer: October 16, 2009 - 6 of 12 cancerous samples , Gleason 7 (4+3)
Doctor: Dr. Mohamed Elharram -Urologist / Surgeon - Peterborough Regional Health Centre
Radical Prostatectomy Operation: November 18, 2009 , home - November 21, 2009
Post Surgery Biopsy: pT3a- gleason 7 - extraprostatic extension - perineural invasion - prostate weight - 34.1gm -
ED Prescription: Jan 8/2010 - started daily 5mg cialis
location: Peteborough, Ontario, Canada
............


Ricky2
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 97
   Posted 2/14/2010 3:32 PM (GMT -6)   
Mel,

It sounds like your doing great. It took me 4 weeks for the drips to start slowing down and I often had the urge to go with very little in my bladder. That was my bladder being irritated. Then in a matter of about 3 weeks every thing dried up (almost) Today no leaking. hang in there, Be patient.

Ricky
Age 70

PSA 5/2008- 3.6, PSA 7/2009- 6.1, retested 9/2009-5.1.
Biopsy 9/2009. 4 of 12 positive. Gleason 3+4=7
CT and bone scan negative.
Robotic De Vince Surgery 10/29/2009. 1 night in hospital. No pain. Cath out on 11/6
Pathology Report: Gleason score 3+4. Margins slightly involved <.1mm to .25mm. Perineural invasion present, stage pT2c. Tumor 18%. Seminal Vesicle - absent, Lymph Nodes 0 of 6.
Continence- first 4 weeks after cath out Dry at night, rest of time, bladder held nothing. 6-7 pads per day. as of 12/30 no pads most of time. almost dry except for a few drips. I keep doing Kegels.
ED. Started VED on 12/17. 15 min every other day. 20mm cilias twice a week. No sign of life yet.


compiler
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 7205
   Posted 2/14/2010 3:54 PM (GMT -6)   

I42:

 

It may well be what I was eating.

Last night was weird. I did have some Coke. Also dill pickles. Also salty nuts. Also, hot and sour soup!!

 

I bet I did some bladder irritation!

 

Mel


63 years old . PSA-- 3/08--2.90; 8/09--4.01; 11/09--4.19 (Free PSA 24%),  after 45 days on cipro! DREs have always been normal. PCA-3

Biopsy on 11/30/09. 5 out of 12 cores positive. Gleason 4+3. 2 cores were 3+3 (one 5% and the other 30%) on one side. On  other side:2 cores are 4+3 (5%)--1 core 3+4 (30%) no peri-neural invasion. prostate is 45 grams. Stage: T1C.  

Surgery with Dr. Menon at Ford Hospital, 1/26/10. He says all looked good. Spared nerves. Unfortunately: Pathology Report: G 4+3 (65%-35%). Cancer in 15% of gland. Lymph Nodes: Clear.  Perineural Invasion: yes. Seminal Vessical Involvement: No.  Extraprostatic Extension: yes.  Positive Margin: Yes-- focal-- 1 spot .5mm. Final Weight is 52.7 gms. 

 Incontinence: joined that club-- definite leaks—1 pad/day. Night is dry but using 1 pad at night for security.

Next Event: First post-op PSA on 3/1/10


142
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 6949
   Posted 2/14/2010 7:17 PM (GMT -6)   
Mel,
You should stay away from anything carbonated or sparkling until the system is settled. I allowed myself a shot glass of champagne for new years eve, and suffered for all of the next day.

Ed C. (Old67)
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2009
Total Posts : 2458
   Posted 2/14/2010 10:30 PM (GMT -6)   
Mel,
I went through the same feeling you are having. At night I didn't have to get up at all or only once. During the day I was going frequently and only having few squirts. It was very annoying. My doctor told me to hold as long as I could to train the bladder. He also said hat he could prescribe medication to relax the bladder but I chose not to do that. After a while you will find that the urge to urinate will go away.
Age: 67 at Dx on 12/30/08
PSA 9/05 1.15; 8/06 1.45; 12/07 2.41; 8/08 3.9; 11/08 3.5 free PSA 11%
2 cores out of 12 were positive Gleason (4+4) and (4+5)
Negative CT scan and bone scan done on 1/16
Robotic surgery performed 2/9/09 Dr Fagin, Austin TX
Pathology report:
Prostate weighed 57 grams size:5.2 x 5.0 x 4.9 cm
Posterior lateral lesions measuring 1.5 x 1.4 x 1.0 cm showing focal capsular penetration over a distance of 3mm in circumference.
Prostatic adenocarciroma accounts for approx. 10-20% of the hemisphere.
Gleason 4+4
both nerve bundles removed,
pT3a Nx Mx, Negative margins
seminal vesicles clean, lymph nodes: not dissected
continent after 4 months
8 weeks PSA test 4/7/09 result <0.1
5 months PSA test 7/9/09 result <0.1
8 months PSA test 10/9/09 result <0.1
11.5 months test 1/21/10 result 0.004


Cajun Jeff
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 4106
   Posted 2/14/2010 10:56 PM (GMT -6)   
Mel: I still find after a year and 4 months that if I have red wine I get a squirt and squirt with no control over it. The feeling of the urge to go does get better over time. Yes holding off seemed to help a bit but I guess over all it just takes time for us to get adjusted to the new pluming.

Jeff T
Jeff T Age 57

9/08 PSA 5.4, referred to Urologist
9/08 Biopsy: GS 3/4=7
10/08 Nerve sparing open RRP- Path Report: GS 3+3=7 Stg. pT2c, margins clear
3 mts: PSA .05 undetectable

10th month PSA <0.01
1year psa <0.01
ED- 5 mg Cialis daily, pump daily, going to try MUSE next. Next step injections.
15 months out injections Caveject (success)

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