Measuring improvements in continence

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English Alf
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 2217
   Posted 2/26/2010 5:15 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi.

I think I have been able to measure an improvement in my continence.

On the 12th of October 2009 (about 10 weeks after surgery) I made a note of when I peed and drank. (I posted that data as a thread at the time)
I did the same on 25th Feb 2010. (about 7 months after surgery)

So by actually having some data to compare I have been able to show myself that things have got better, even though from one day to the next nothing seems to change, thus to help reassure guys still near the beginning of their journeys I am going to share this data with you.

(My fluid intake on the two days was almost identical, with regard to what I drank, how much I drank and when I drank it. The total was about 2 liters, so I won't include the details here)

In October 2009 I peed at the following times
05.15
08.25
09.15(+BM)
10.00
11.45
11.55
12.29
14.00
16.00
16.02
18.30
19.59
21.45
22.00
24.00
So that was a total of 15 visits.
Very few of the visits involved a large quantity of pee.
I also felt like I needed to pee almost the whole time. On three occasions I had dribbled before I made it to the bathroom and at 11.55 and 16.02 I was obviously having to go back to the bathroom to deal with a bladder that had not emptied properly.
I also had to get up in the night. (And that long gap in the afternoon was only because I went to sleep.)


In Feb 2009 I peed at the following times:
06.25
08.35 (+BM)
10.22
12.32
14.18
16.55
17.59
19.25 (+BM)
21.02
21.45
23.10

Only 11 visits. I had no dribbles. Also I hadn’t even needed to get up the previous night. I only felt like I needed a pee for about an hour before I went.
Almost each visit involved what I would describe as a normal volume of pee.
The only occasion when I went when I didn’t feel a desperate need to was at 21.45 when I was about to go to bed.

(I now also find that I have about 10 or 12 BMs per week instead of 7, but as I am now eating much more wholegrain bread, fruit, vegetables etc I don’t regard that as a problem – the extra gas from all that healthy food is occasional a “nuisance” mind you, especially if I’m under the sheets or not at home!)

So I think it fair to conclude that I definitely have my bladder and bathroom visits much more under control.

I hope others do too or soon will have.

Alfred

Casey59
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 3172
   Posted 2/26/2010 7:00 AM (GMT -6)   
This is reminding me of trying to potty train my son.

You are doing great! As you said, it's a journey.

Worried Guy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 3739
   Posted 2/26/2010 11:41 AM (GMT -6)   
Hey Alf,

You do me proud. I loved your list of times. I showed them to my wife as proof that I was not the only only person in the world writing things down.

I am nowhere near as continent as you. So I weigh my pads daily. Unfortunately for the past 2 months I have not seen a significant change. At least I have the data to prove it.

Congratulations on your very signifcant progress.
Jeff
Married 34 years, DX Age 56. First routine PSA test on April 8, 09: 17.8. Start 2 weeks of Cipro to rule out protatitis. May '09 PSA: 22.6, 3 weeks later: PSA: 23.2.
Biopsy 6/10/09: 7/12 scores positive, 20%-70%, Gleason 6=3+3. Bone and C/T scans neg.
RP DaVinci -7/21/2009 @ Univ of Roch Medical Center
Left nerve gone, right partial spared.
Catheter removed - 7/31/2009 Pathology report received:
Gleason 3+4=7, Tumor size: 2.5 x 1.8 cm, location: both lobes and apex.
Extraprostatic extension present; Perineural invasion: present, extensive.
No Malignancy in Seminal Vesicle, vasa deferentia, lymph nodes 0/13
Prostate mass 56 grams. Pathologic Stage: pT3aN0MX
Post Surgery Status:
Potency - 12/11 5 months, Still no activity, zip. Using pump daily since 11/11. No effect with 20 mg of Cialis or 100 mg of Viagra. Shots, See Uro 1/22/10 Trimix unsuccessful.
Incontinence - 8/20 4 full pads per day
.. 9/7 3-4 full pads per day (Try cutting down on fluids. Bad idea. I know.)
11/14 4 months: Still 3 pads per day. 420ml/day, 91 um leak.
12/11 5 months: Still 3 pads per day. 400-450ml/day
1/11/10 6 months: Still 3 pads but leak is now 320 ml (5 day avg.)
Post Surgery PSA - 9/3 6 weeks - 0.05; 10/13 3 months - 0.04, 1/14 6 months - 0.05.


compiler
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 7269
   Posted 2/26/2010 12:59 PM (GMT -6)   

That is very interesting. I am struggling with the incontinence issue, although I seem to be doing well, compared to many.

I am still uncomfortable much of the time. I think your method of writing down your bathroom trips presents a very good metric.

 

Mel


63 years old . PSA-- 3/08--2.90; 8/09--4.01; 11/09--4.19 (Free PSA 24%),  after 45 days on cipro! DREs have always been normal. PCA-3

Biopsy on 11/30/09. 5 out of 12 cores positive. Gleason 4+3. 2 cores were 3+3 (one 5% and the other 30%) on one side. On  other side:2 cores are 4+3 (5%)--1 core 3+4 (30%) no peri-neural invasion. prostate is 45 grams. Stage: T1C.  

Surgery with Dr. Menon at Ford Hospital, 1/26/10. He says all looked good. Spared nerves. Unfortunately: Pathology Report: G 4+3 (65%-35%). Cancer in 15% of gland. Lymph Nodes: Clear.  Perineural Invasion: yes. Seminal Vessical Involvement: No.  Extraprostatic Extension: yes.  Positive Margin: Yes-- focal-- 1 spot .5mm. Final Weight is 52.7 gms. 

 Incontinence: joined that club-- definite leaks—1 pad/day. Night is dry, was  using 1 pad at night for security, but pretty much dispensed with that most nights.

Next Event: First post-op PSA on 3/1/10


Ricky2
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 97
   Posted 2/26/2010 1:22 PM (GMT -6)   
Alfred,

Looks like your doing great. It makes me think of a issue that I never have brought up with my uro. From what I understand, that when they do surgery, they pull the bladder down to take the place of the prostate and use part of the bladder to reconnect to the sphincter muscle. In the process your bladder gets smaller. Your bladder also is irritated and swollen and not very elastic. As it heals, the bladder regains it elasticity. The question I have is does it help to hold the pee as long as you can to stretch the bladder out to it original size? I have been doing great in the incontinence dept.(no leaking), but it doesn't seem that my bladder holds as much. I still have to get up a couple of times at night..

Ricky,
Age 70

PSA 5/2008- 3.6, PSA 7/2009- 6.1, retested 9/2009-5.1.
Biopsy 9/2009. 4 of 12 positive. Gleason 3+4=7
CT and bone scan negative.
Robotic De Vince Surgery 10/29/2009. 1 night in hospital. No pain. Cath out on 11/6
Pathology Report: Gleason score 3+4. Margins slightly involved <.1mm to .25mm. Perineural invasion present, stage pT2c. Tumor 18%. Seminal Vesicle - absent, Lymph Nodes 0 of 6.
Continence- first 4 weeks after cath out Dry at night, rest of time, bladder held nothing. 6-7 pads per day. as of 12/30 no pads most of time. almost dry except for a few drips. I keep doing Kegels.
ED. Started VED on 12/17/2009. Every other day for 15 min. Cialis .20 mm twice a week
PSA 02/08/2010 <.1
02/22/10 Trimex injection .2ml less than 50% just a little discomfort.


English Alf
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 2217
   Posted 2/28/2010 10:39 AM (GMT -6)   
Jeff
Lists what d'ya mean lists I don't make lists! Oh wait a minute...

It started with the list of things to be tested for (which had not included PSA as I'd never heard of it 12 months ago)
There was the list of questions to ask the uro.
The list of things I wanted to say to the uro after a painful biopsy
The list of things to tell my wife
There was the list of follow up questions for my GP
The list of question for my insurance company
The list of questions form the second uro
Oh and the list of answers
The list of my stats
The list of people I'd told.
The list of things to do before the op
The list of "things" to do in case I couldn't do "things" any more after the op.
The list of thing to take to the hospital
The list of food and drink to take or avoid
the list of exercises
the revised list of my stats
That Xmas card list 2009
The list of appointments still to come
The list to the left when I'm walking to the bathroom in the middle of the night. (Yeah I had to go again in the night last night but the weather got warmer here so the heating turned off at night and so I got colder than I had when it was -10 at night.)

Feeling a bit listless

Alfred

Worried Guy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 3739
   Posted 2/28/2010 11:37 AM (GMT -6)   
Alf
I don't make lists either. I make spreadsheets and calcualtions.
Spreadsheet for different pee pad capacities.
Spreadsheet for bladder pressure and distance I can shoot.
Spreadsheet for bladder capacity.
Spreadsheet for effect of Cialis and Viagra. (That one was easy. it was Zero)
Spreadsheet for Trimix and reaction.
Spreadsheet for daily leak.
Spreadsheet for effect of different fluids.
Spreadsheet for optimum daily pee pad cost.

Then there are calculations:
Calculations to determine how much caloric energy is in a pee pad.
Calculations for what pressure will produce what distance from a fixed height.
Calculations for how much air can be heated one degree by letting a used pee pad come up to temperature.
Calculations to determine how much energy can I harness by using a condom catheter with a tube to spin a generator attached to my ankle.
Calculations to determine how much energy can be saved if all the incontinent men in the US extracted the energy from full pads before throwing them away.

Oh my! I just made two lists!
A mental case indeed...
Jeff

Worried Guy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 3739
   Posted 2/28/2010 12:24 PM (GMT -6)   
I just remember a couple of more incontinence studies I did.

The effect of tight briefs vs loose.
The effect of Zyrtec-D
The effect of Nyquil
The effect of TENS stimulation of the perineum.

I have more data than NASA. Unfortunately my pants are still wet. Sigh.

So what do we learn from all this? Never leave an engineer home alone with a computer, and a Mettler balance.

Jeff
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