Decaf and incontence

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bemis
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 38
   Posted 2/28/2010 8:42 AM (GMT -6)   
Well I seem to leak less with no coffee but I sure do miss it.Do you think its the caffine and decaff would be OK?I found out about beer last night I drank 2 and they went right through me! Dick
age 55 /psa 10-09 5.4/biopsy 11-09 Gleson 3+3=6 3+4=7/ Radical prostateectomy 1/22/10/pathology positive margins and extraprostatic extension pY3a


Steve n Dallas
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2008
Total Posts : 4829
   Posted 2/28/2010 9:59 AM (GMT -6)   
What goes in must come out. I doubt you'd see any difference between caff/no caff.... Odds are you're like me any everyone else. Every day is different. Some days my 3 cups of Java makes me pee many times...Other days I can go a few hour before I have to pee...Beer does the same thing..Kind of depends on you overall water level.
Age 54   - 5'11"   205lbs
Overall Heath Condition - Good
PSA - July 2007 & Jan 2008 -> 1.3
Biopsy - 03/04/08 -> Gleason 6 
06/25/08 - Da Vinci robotic laparoscopy
05/14/09  - 4th Quarter PSA -> less then .01
11/20/09 - 18 Month PSA -> less then .01
Surgeon - Keith A. Waguespack, M.D.


Worried Guy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 3732
   Posted 2/28/2010 10:14 AM (GMT -6)   
According to my own research for my own body, I have found it makes no difference what you drink. The two main variables are: amount of fluid you drink or eat, and how much you move around. I avoided coffee, caffeine, decaf, juices, wine, .. I drank only water. I dehydrated myself and hydrated, I exercised and sat like a lump in front of the computer all day. For me it is Volume and activity. Period.
I know some guys say alcohol gives them trouble, other guys state coffee. I guess I'm just lucky. Everythign makes me pee. Input equals output about 1-2 hours later. And I have the data to prove it.

I can drink a lot at night and wake up with a full bladder. I figure that is rehydrating me and stretching my bladder. I gives me some sense of control But standing or walking or shoveling snow is a disaster.
Jeff
Married 34 years, DX Age 56. First routine PSA test on April 8, 09: 17.8. Start 2 weeks of Cipro to rule out protatitis. May '09 PSA: 22.6, 3 weeks later: PSA: 23.2.
Biopsy 6/10/09: 7/12 scores positive, 20%-70%, Gleason 6=3+3. Bone and C/T scans neg.
RP DaVinci -7/21/2009 @ Univ of Roch Medical Center
Left nerve gone, right partial spared.
Catheter removed - 7/31/2009 Pathology report received:
Gleason 3+4=7, Tumor size: 2.5 x 1.8 cm, location: both lobes and apex.
Extraprostatic extension present; Perineural invasion: present, extensive.
No Malignancy in Seminal Vesicle, vasa deferentia, lymph nodes 0/13
Prostate mass 56 grams. Pathologic Stage: pT3aN0MX
Post Surgery Status:
Potency - 12/11 5 months, Still no activity, zip. Using pump daily since 11/11. No effect with 20 mg of Cialis or 100 mg of Viagra. Shots next See Uro 1/22/10 Trimix #1. Try 0.08- 25%, 0.12-25%, 2/26/10 try 0.16 First Success! 90%.
Incontinence - 8/20 4 full pads per day
.. 9/7 3-4 full pads per day (Try cutting down on fluids. Bad idea. I know.)
12/11 5 months: Still 3 pads per day. 400-450ml/day
2/26/10 7 months: Still 3 pads but leak is now 320 ml (5 day avg.)
Post Surgery PSA - 9/3 6 weeks - 0.05; 10/13 3 months - 0.04, 1/14 6 months - 0.05.


LenB
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 102
   Posted 2/28/2010 10:47 AM (GMT -6)   
Cafine is a dieretic, so try yo avoid it.  I switched to decaf and it works fine.  Alcohol also make you pee a lot.

Age: 65
DX: 7/10/09
Gleason: 7
Biopsey: 2 chips with some cancer cells out of 30.
Robotic Surgery: 9/10/09
Cath out: 9/23/09
1st post op PSA: 10/20/09 <0.1
2nd post op PSA:  1/25/10 <0.1
 


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 2/28/2010 8:41 PM (GMT -6)   
I agree with Len, it's the caffine in the coffee that causes the problem, as in soda pop also. So the de-caf shouldn't be a problem. My doctor was real strict during that transition part: no juices, no booze, no coffee, no tea, and nothing carbonated. For me, not much of a sacrifice, as for years, I almost only drink water. My one exception was I still drank some Pelegrino, the Italian mineral water, and it never bothered me, it has minimal levels of natural carbonation in it, but not much.

David in SC
Age: 57, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 7/08 12.3, 9/08 14.5, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 - 7/7 Positive, 40-90% Cancer, Gleason 4+3
Open RP: 11/08, Rht nerves saved, 4 days in hospt, on catheters for 63 days, 5th one out 1/09
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin
Incontinence:  1 Month     ED:  Non issue at any point post surgery
Post Surgery  PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12
Latest: 7/9 met 2 rad. oncl, 7/9 cath #6 - blockage, 8/9 2nd corr surgery, 8/9 cath #7 out 38 days, 9/9 - met 3rd rad. oncl., mapped  9/9, 10/1 - 3rd corr. surgery - SP cath/hard dialation, 10/5 - 11/27 IMRT SRT 39 sess/72 gys ,cath #8 33 days, Cath #9 35 days, 12/7 - Cath #10 43 days, 1/19 - Corr Surgery #4,  Caths #11 and #12 in at the same time, 2/8-Cath #11 out - 21 days


goodlife
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 2691
   Posted 2/28/2010 9:21 PM (GMT -6)   
I have found that the artificial sweetner gives me an unusual urge to pee, NOW.

I think Jeff aka Worriedguy is pretty close to the truth. It is volume related as much as any thing. Beer/wine seem to act somewhat like the sweetner does on top of the volume.

It appears tho that once you can get the valve to work right, you can hold it all.
Goodlife
 
Age 58, PSA 4.47 Biopsy - 2/12 cores , Gleason 4 + 5 = 9
Da Vinci, Cleveland Clinic  4/14/09   Nerves spared, but carved up a little.
0/23 lymph nodes involved  pT3a NO MX
Catheter and 2 stints in ureters for 2 weeks .
Neg Margins, bladder neck negative
Living the Good Life, cancer free  6 week PSA  <.03
3 month PSA <.01 (different lab)
5 month PSA <.03 (undetectable)
6 Month PSA <.01
1 pad a day, no progress on ED.  Trimix injection
No pads, 1/1/10,  9 month PSA < .01


kw
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 883
   Posted 2/28/2010 9:39 PM (GMT -6)   
    I also watched what I drank.  Not sure if it helped but I was trying anything I could.
    Good Luck
    KW
    43 at Dx and Surgery (RRP)
    PSA 5.7, Biopsy 3 of 12 positive (up to 75%) all on left side of prostate, Gleason 7
    RRP on Oct. 17, 2006 - Nerves on right side saved. All Lab's clear. 
    Cathiter in for 28 days due to complications in healing. Removed Nov. 9, 2006
     Dec. 2006 – Oct. 2008 Cystoscope, Two Collagen injections,Second Opinion   
    Consultation for Incontinance at OU Medical Center, Bio-Feedback       
    training, Chiropractic, Accupuncture , AdVance Male Sling, Two More Collagen 
    injections, AUS Installed and Activated (Dr. Morey at UT Southwestern Dallas TX)
    All to try to resolve incontinence (using 6-8 Depends Guards a day)

    To Date All PSA's 0.00.

   http://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=35&m=721171

    http://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=35&m=978691


English Alf
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 2215
   Posted 3/1/2010 2:29 AM (GMT -6)   
I had switched to decaff a couple of months before dx so hard to say if it makes a difference, but when i switched I found the decaff helps me sleep better.

I don't feel like alcohol makes a big difference, but I drink very little.
I use small wine glasses so although I have a "glass of wine" it is only about two mouthfuls. Also never drink more than one beer and that means one half a pint bottle. I also switched from 5% alcohol beer to 3%.
(But I was also okay a few weeks ago when I drank four normal glasses of wine when I gave a dinner party for my wife's 50th birthday)

I reckon I am now almost peeing with the same frequency as before the op, my real problem these days is that I still feel like I need to pee the whole time, and I can't really tell how full my bladder is till I actually pee. (And that all make me worry that if I do leak it might be a flood rather than a dribble)

(see my thread: www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=35&m=1730141

I'm not an ice-hockey fan, but well done to Canada for finishing off their olympics with a gold medal.

Alfred

Worried Guy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 3732
   Posted 3/1/2010 5:29 AM (GMT -6)   
As I mentioned above for my personal pee production. Fluid volume was the most significant factor. All other effects were either second order or so small as to be insignificant. 250 ml of water, decaf, caf, wine, milk, will end up in my pad in 1-2 hours if I am standing or walking. It will still be in my bladder if I am sitting or in bed.
Take data and see how it works for you. (Don't let your wife know you are using the kitchen scale or her one liter measuring cup.)

142
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 6949
   Posted 3/1/2010 8:19 AM (GMT -6)   
Worried - I think suggesting a cheap plastic measuring cup (the one everyone should buy before surgery for the obligatory post-op measuring) and each one's own scale, would reduce the need to worry about the unexpected absence of some of our club members due to the effects of domestic turf wars.

Worried Guy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 3732
   Posted 3/1/2010 10:06 AM (GMT -6)   
Ah, 142
True enough, but if you follow my posts you will find that besides being an engineer and data taker I am also "careful" with my funds. I often expound the mantra: "Don't buy something new for a temprary condition." I suppose a scale and measuring cup could be had at GoodWill for a few dollars, but what fun would that be?

"What's that? Oh nothing, dear! That odor must be from the kitchen trap. I was just making some oatmeal. Yeah, that's the ticket "Oatmeal". Don't worry, I'll take care of the dishes."

(To be perfectly honest, I have my own, self-calibrated 8 oz Grated Parmesean container for collection purposes and use the scale to determine accurate volume assuming a density of 1.0 gm/ml. Rest assured you can eat at my house safely.)

((I'm going to hide the guns and ammo in case she reads this.))
Jeff

Post Edited (Worried Guy) : 3/1/2010 9:52:26 AM (GMT-7)


142
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 6949
   Posted 3/1/2010 1:40 PM (GMT -6)   
Jeff - I think those of us who grew up in rural, just-post Depression households refer to that "careful" as being "frugal". The stores hate me - I figure if its not on sale or clearance, it is still too expensive. That said sitting here in my Olympic sweatshirt. Being 1996 Atlanta Olympics. Its not completely worn out yet.

Worried Guy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 3732
   Posted 3/1/2010 3:08 PM (GMT -6)   
Hey 142,
You said It. "Frugal", "careful", "conservative", thrifty" but never "cheap". I absolutely hate buying something new. It seems like I am consuming resources and bringing one more piece of stuff into the world. I even try to buy American.
I personally am responsible for 0.00000003% of our reduced GDP.
So now you know anther reason why I do everything to reduce pee pad consumption: I'm "Careful".
If I could hang them out to dry I would. (But then my wife would leave me for sure.)

One last example, Every once in a while I will have a pad that is dry before I go to bed. After a shower I can't bring myself to put on a used pad so I burn it in my wood burning stove and extract $0.01 worth of heat. Take that Osama!

There is nothing wrong with wearing a 1996 Olympics Shirt - even with a hole of two.

Jeff

geezer99
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 990
   Posted 3/1/2010 7:07 PM (GMT -6)   
Jeff -- the engineering world is ashamed of your sloppiness. Everyone knows that volumetric flasks are calibrated at a particular temperature. Or do you know and are just trying to get your wife to believe the story about the "lemon juice" in the fridge.

On the main topic, coffee and beer did make me pee more, but if you are wearing pads a few chemical pleasures may well offset another pad change.
Age at diagnosis 66, PSA 5.5
Biopsy 12/08 12 cores, 8 positive
Gleason 3+4=7
CAT scan, Bone scan 1/09 both negative.

Robotic surgery 03/03/09 Catheter Out 03/08/09
Pathology: Lymph nodes & Seminal vesicles negative
Margins positive, Capsular penetration extensive Gleason 4+3=7
6 weeks: 1 pad/day, 1 pad/night -- mostly dry at night.
10 weeks: no pad at night -- slight leakage day/1 pad.
3 mo. PSA 0.0 - now light pads
6 mo. PSA 0.00 -- 1 light pad/day
9 mo. PSA 0.00 -- 1 light pad/day ED remains


Worried Guy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 3732
   Posted 3/2/2010 5:09 AM (GMT -6)   
Geezer,
Fear not. I am well aware of the thermal expansion and have carefully factored that in when marking the container. I calculated the optimum discard temperature by determining the benefit of letting the mix cool to room temperature thus extracting 15 BTUs vs the potential cost of another member of the household seeing it, and have wisely chosen to measure and discard while still quite warm.

And to the main topic. I think an experiment is in order. I would like to determine the effect of known diuretics in continent and incontinent patients. My data, n=1, indicate that for incontinent patients the liquid volume is the most significant factor. The diuretic effect is secondary. So secondary as to be unmeasurable.
My premise is that the diuretic effect is only noticeable in continent patients with minimal to no leakage. Data is needed so I am recruiting for study volunteers.
The next time you are going to drink a beer please temporarily forgo the chemical pleasure and rather consume an equivalent volume of water. Measure total output from the time of consumption, TC, until 1 hour later, TC+1, and 2 hours later, TC+2 and record volume. Repeat the test the next day with a beer. Try to keep the daily activity level and liquid consumption consistent for both days.

Clearly a double blind study is out so we can make it a poll survey. ;-)

Post Edited (Worried Guy) : 3/2/2010 6:08:08 AM (GMT-7)


cocrgolfer
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 171
   Posted 3/2/2010 6:03 AM (GMT -6)   
Jeff,


Don't forget to factor in the volumn of water lost through evaporation in normal perspiration and the total volumn of water in all the food you eat, plus the volumn of water in the feces. (something new to weigh) Also the volumn of water lost in tears while reading about the shenanagans going on in Washington and the amount lost via drool while watching a Beyonce video.



Steve

Worried Guy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 3732
   Posted 3/2/2010 7:04 AM (GMT -6)   
Steve,
Thanks for pointing that out. I might have to modify the study protocol. I recently purchased a Mettler PS60 for a project. It has a resolution of 0.05 pounds (20g) with a sufficient range so I could weigh myself. Thankfully, I can tare out my body weight so I do not actually have to touch any solids that might need measuring.
Jeff
The Beyonce drool is another matter. Click here--> Put a ring on it!

Casey59
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 3172
   Posted 3/2/2010 7:39 AM (GMT -6)   
So much for being frugal...
 
A new Mettler balance, and next thing you know you'll be continent.

Worried Guy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 3732
   Posted 3/2/2010 7:43 AM (GMT -6)   
I can hope... I can hope...

(The Mettler was a charged business expense. That's even better than being careful frugal.

cocrgolfer
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 171
   Posted 3/2/2010 1:00 PM (GMT -6)   
I watched the Beyonce video and collected 11.5 ml of drool. I liked it I liked it.

Steve

bemis
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 38
   Posted 3/3/2010 9:13 AM (GMT -6)   
Worried Guy  I would have a hard time measuring liquid volume as most ends up in the pad.Even when I get up and walk to the bathroom I leak until I start to pee.As I'm getting around a bit more I'm figuring out pad stratigies .I leak around pads eventualy but can change them without takeing shoes and pants off.Full diapers work best but are hard to deal with in public areas.I went skiing for the first time yesterday [5 easy runs] at 5 1/2 weeks post surgery it was great[ I did drive my camping van to make pad change easyer].I plan on skiing most days to build myself up and have some fun before adjunct radiation starting April 13.    DICK
age 55 /psa 10-09 5.4/biopsy 11-09 Gleson 3+3=6 3+4=7/ Radical prostateectomy 1/22/10/pathology positive margins and extraprostatic extension pY3a


Worried Guy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 3732
   Posted 3/3/2010 2:44 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi Dick,

I measure my leak by weighing my full pee pads for the day and subtracting the equivalent weight of new, dry pads. I have a diaper pail in the bathroom lined with a plastic bag. I put all my full pads in there and at the end of the day, weigh the whole bag. I record the info and then throw the bag into the outside trash bin.

Here's a trick I learned about PPPP, Personal Pee Protection Products. I put Mens Guards, or Poise Pads inside the plastic diaper. When the pad gets full I just rip it out and replace it without taking off the diaper. Best of all I don't have to worry about being mortified if I have a leak. I used that method when I was testing to determine how much each pad model can actually hold.
If I am home, I wear regular BVD briefs, one size too small, with a Mens Guard and half a Poise pad.
I used that method to determine how much each pad model can actually hold.

It is great news that you are skiing so soon. Congratulations.
Do those kegels. You have 6 weeks to get better.

Jeff
Married 34 years, DX Age 56. First routine PSA test on April 8, 09: 17.8. Start 2 weeks of Cipro to rule out protatitis. May '09 PSA: 22.6, 3 weeks later: PSA: 23.2.
Biopsy 6/10/09: 7/12 scores positive, 20%-70%, Gleason 6=3+3. Bone and C/T scans neg.
RP DaVinci -7/21/2009 @ Univ of Roch Medical Center
Left nerve gone, right partial spared.
Catheter removed - 7/31/2009 Pathology report received:
Gleason 3+4=7, Tumor size: 2.5 x 1.8 cm, location: both lobes and apex.
Extraprostatic extension present; Perineural invasion: present, extensive.
No Malignancy in Seminal Vesicle, vasa deferentia, lymph nodes 0/13
Prostate mass 56 grams. Pathologic Stage: pT3aN0MX
Post Surgery Status:
Potency - 12/11 5 months, Still no activity, zip. Using pump daily since 11/11. No effect with 20 mg of Cialis or 100 mg of Viagra. Shots next See Uro 1/22/10 Trimix #1. Try 0.08- 25%, 0.12-25%, 2/26/10 try 0.16 First Success! 90%.
Incontinence - 8/20 4 full pads per day
.. 9/7 3-4 full pads per day (Try cutting down on fluids. Bad idea. I know.)
12/11 5 months: Still 3 pads per day. 400-450ml/day
2/26/10 7 months: Still 3 pads but leak is now 320 ml (5 day avg.)
Post Surgery PSA - 9/3 6 weeks - 0.05; 10/13 3 months - 0.04, 1/14 6 months - 0.05.

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