Welcome new friend, el perro

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James C.
Veteran Member

Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4463
   Posted 3/6/2010 9:28 AM (GMT -6)   
In another thread el perro posted for the first time, saying:

I'm new here, just came across this thread while researching a little bit. I have Gleason 3+3 and have been doing active surveillance for a little over a year. PSA has been mostly stable around 2.5, but I'm due for test next week. Anyway, I read in Strum's book awhile back about ADT2(?), I think that's what he called it, Casodex + Proscar. Any experience with that protocol? There also isn't much info on transitioning from AS to a hormone regimen, if one chooses to go that route. That is, should one stay on AS alone as long as possible or hit it with the ADT early on? I hope I'm just asking for future reference, but upcoming PSA test has me antsy. Thanks.

Welcome to HW. glad you came, hate you are here... smilewinkgrin
James C. Age 62
Co-Moderator- Prostate Cancer Forum
4/07 PSA 7.6, referred to Urologist, recheck 6.7
7/07 Biopsy: 3 of 16 PCa, 5% involved, left lobe, GS 3/3=6
9/07 Nerve sparing open RRP 110gms.- Path Report: GS 3+3=6 Stg. pT2c, 110gms, margins clear
32 mts: PSA's: .04 each test since surgery, ED Continues-Bimix .3ml PRN or Trimix .15ml PRN

Veteran Member

Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 3149
   Posted 3/6/2010 10:06 AM (GMT -6)   
Since you won't hear this from anyone else why not know such things: alot of ways to combat PCa with various results and side effects, so patient has more possible choices than the usual few the docs promote. You can buy time with some protocols and perhaps with the newer things coming, like Provenge and other ways to combat PCa one would like to stay more normal functioning for longer or whatever, your possible choices. Here is Rick K.'s story a Michigan guy I met at a support group years ago and called on the phone about 1 yr. ago now., doing similar to what you mentioned.

Rick had originally been detected with psa around 11.0, gleason only a total of 5 (probably hindsight would be 6= 3+3) found in 2 of 12 cores. He opted then the the bizarre newer concept of ADT3(1995-6) via Dr. Leibowitz method (maybe like Strums concept too, slight variations in those). Do those hormone drugs for 13 months, quit them and stay only on proscar (maybe avodart if you wish-and avodart is more potent and not alot of side effects generally). Well Ricks psa was nil and he monitored thereafter and to be curious had rebiopsies done on two future times over a few years down the road...and nothing found in those (no PCa detected then), also all manly functions came back to him in very reasonable time frame he says. Now 12-13 yrs. later after doing the ADT3 (so last year) he noticed increase in psa and so per Leibowitz's protocol, one can usually resume the ADT3 and go for a second round and this is what he is doing, seems to be working well for him. Also, to those who believe he is a dead man walking (is he???), he can still undergo actually all PCa treatments, surgery would be more difficult but is possible too. So, then is Rick and idiot for choosing this??? He is very well pleased and not in a hurry to do any major protocol. I admire the man for having the guts to choose his own path and look outside the box, his choices and wishes should be paramount to for his own body. There are other protocols one could do and are being done sometimes here and in other countries: treatment chemically like with estradiol patches, DES, emcyt and other ones beyond that, they are not profittable of course and maybe not in vogue, they do render results which would have to be monitored and are someones possible choice. FYI- Dr. Fred Lee the founder of cryo-therapy has PCa himself and chose emcyt for his own treatment and with good results, he is alive and practicing and I believe it is around 10 yr mark for him....hhhhmmmm!

So is PCa simplistic as cut, zap, freeze?(guarantees??) Your decision and investigation and choice. Sometimes PCa is more like the Jungle, Twilight Zone and LimboLand!  Good journey on whatever you decided is right for you.

Youth is wasted on the Young-(W.C. Fields)

Post Edited (zufus) : 3/6/2010 8:11:27 AM (GMT-7)

Elite Member

Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25393
   Posted 3/6/2010 11:28 AM (GMT -6)   
Welcome, new friend to HW Prostate Cancer.

Sorry you need to be here, but glad you found us.

There are never bad questions here, so always feel free to ask away. We have folks that have experienced almost every gambit of Prostate Cancer: it's dx, its treatments, its side effects, etc.

Please keep posting.

David in SC

PS Bro. Zufus gave you some good advice above my post, worth reading through it several times
Age: 57, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 7/08 12.3, 9/08 14.5, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 - 7/7 Positive, 40-90% Cancer, Gleason 4+3
Open RP: 11/08, Rht nerves saved, 4 days in hospt, on catheters for 63 days, 5th one out 1/09
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin
Incontinence:  1 Month     ED:  Non issue at any point post surgery, no problem post SRT
Post Surgery  PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12
Latest: 7/9 met 2 rad. oncl, 7/9 cath #6 - blockage, 8/9 2nd corr surgery, 8/9 cath #7 out 38 days, 9/9 - met 3rd rad. oncl., mapped  9/9, 10/1 - 3rd corr. surgery - SP cath/hard dialation, 10/5 - 11/27 IMRT SRT 39 sess/72 gys ,cath #8 33 days, Cath #9 35 days, 12/7 - Cath #10 43 days, 1/19 - Corr Surgery #4,  Caths #11 and #12  same time, 2/8-Cath #11 out - 21 days, 3/2- Cath #12 out - 41 days, 3/2- Corr Surgery #5, Caths #13 & #14 same time, 3/6 Cath #13 out - 4 days

Veteran Member

Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 1267
   Posted 3/6/2010 10:31 PM (GMT -6)   
I second the motion proposed by all above in welcoming you. Please keep posting and keeping us up-to-date on your PCa journey.

Sheldon AKA Sleepless
Age 67 in Apil '09 at news of 4 of 12 cores positive T2B and Gleason 3 + 3 and 5% to 25% PSA 1.5
Re-read of slides in June said Gleason 3 + 4 same four cores 5% to 15%
June 29 daVinci prostatectomy, Dr. Eric Estey, at Royal Alexandra Hospital Edmonton one night stay
From "knock out" to wake up in recovery less than two hours.  Actual surgery 70 minutes
Flew home to Winnipeg on July 3 after 5 nights in Ramada Inn  ---  perfect recovery spot!
Catheter out July 9
Final pathology is 3 + 4 Gleason 7, clear margins, clear nodes, T2C, sugeron says report is "excellent"
First post op PSA Sept 09  less than 0.02
PSA on Oct 23 test again less than 0.02
PSA on Jan 8 less than 0.02  
Oct 1st 09 -- dry at night, during day some stress issues.
Oct 31st padless 24/7 
Feel free to email me at:  sheldonprostate@yahoo.com    

el perro
Regular Member

Date Joined Mar 2010
Total Posts : 46
   Posted 3/8/2010 1:27 AM (GMT -6)   
Thanks for the welcome. I'm mostly past the scared-out-of-my-mind phase now, though it still pops up from time to time. I've talked with several docs about different treatments, but haven't pulled the trigger on anything so far. I have PSA test this week, and then am supposed to go for 3-Tesla MRI later this month. Anyone have experience with that?

Interesting account of Leibowitz's patient. I'm glad to hear it has worked out for him. I wasn't aware that HT made surgery more complicated. Is there a layman's explanation for that?
Dx 11/2008, Gleason 3+3
Active surveillance for now

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