Bio Tech's working on phase I things on cellular level~already published in Journal this early

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zufus
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Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 3149
   Posted 4/14/2010 11:56 AM (GMT -6)   
Hey this is way complex and I do not profess to know squat but maybe we can gleen something from some of this. You may have to google and research some, I have a few Journal articles of interest herein your could find, library maybe on line too. Let me lay out the basics as I barely understand them, but will try:
 
Two types of cell divisions take place in all living organisms, Meiosis and Mitosis  (google it), we humans have 2-sets of 23 chromsomes (46 total) that helps determine our bodies (eye color, hair and all that stuff). They have already found that during Meiosis which has like 3 stages of changes that a DNA break can and does occur and have double stranded DNA structures (that is ok so far) but might and can further break and get very wild such that like your cancer cells get out of control, even though other cells can remain normal. There can be DNA partials, lost components, fragmented and things like that.  They have identified a couple places whereby they can repair the crazy DNA through two found ways(thus leading to normal cell death I guess is the info), this is so important(herein) that Phase I results are published in a Journal, which my onco doc says is very rare to happen and this looks very promising thus far and he says Bio Techs and Large Pharma's are into this big time...as somebody is going to have a break through, first with patent if possible would win very big. Has to do with  PARP1  inhibitor and  also BRCA (which is breast cancer related)
 
So here some info to look into if this stuff interests you:
 
New England Journal of Med.  361:2  (NEJM.org)  July 9, 2009  ("Synthetic Lethality-A New Direction in Cancer-Drug Development- Dr. Iglehart & Dr. Silver)
 
Breast Cancer Research 2009, 11:111 (doi:10.1186/bcr2451)  (link?- http://breast-cancer-research.com/content/11/1/111)  "PARP inhibitors and the treatment of breast caner: beyond BRCS 1/2?  (Dr. Frizzel and Dr. Kraus)
 
Cell 128, 157-170, January 12, 2007 -2007 Elsevier, Inc.- "Essential Role for Nuclear PTEN in Maintaining Chromosomal Intergrity"  (is this Cell magazine?? perhaps?) (maybe google for PTEN and read about its significance...this something little different to read about)
 
Note that our Ploidity analysis on our pathology (an optional testing) =DNA PCa cells which is seldom paid for and done in pathology (should be considered done for additional fees), there are 3-types of ploidity analysis in our cells the best to be found with is diploid which is like normal cells 2 identical strands of DNA, if and when it may morph by breaking the chain during normal Meiosis, then you can end up with wild ploidity of Aneuploid and Teteraploid (spelling?) of which the DNA is out control and thus drugs against the PCa are much less effect or sometimes useless, and also your prognosis will thus change with these changes.
 
Here is the thing:  your initial PCa could start off with diploid (that is the best scenario), but it can and does change later in many cases to the more wild DNA structures that we cannot get good control over  (thus far). This is one reason why if you are on drug protocol longer term the cancer changes and become harder to defeat...as it has DNA structures that are wild and more uncontrollable...sometimes a new drug might work as it may find a different receptor mechanism to get accepted into the cell and help kill it or change it. There are alot of different receptor mechanisms to get into the cancer cells or have them accept another source....it gets into positive and negative charged electrons and stuff like that, way beyond my comprehension. The bad thing but maybe worth knowing up front if you start off with the other two types of ploidity analysis the PCa patient might have a heads up that you are further along in the disease getting out of total control...so maybe you don't have near as much time left as someone else...in effect.  This is my understanding and it could be incorrect...be seems to make sense to me on this dragon and helps explain why some patient do way worse or better than others even with ridiculous looking stats and high risk scenarios.
 
 
 


Youth is wasted on the Young-(W.C. Fields)

Post Edited (zufus) : 4/14/2010 11:51:51 AM (GMT-6)


Todd1963
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 3257
   Posted 4/14/2010 12:23 PM (GMT -6)   
wow. My onc has told me of this research and is assuring me that treatments on the moleculer level or only a few years out. way tooo muchh fer my peoony mind to compreehend
dx:06/03/06
Age at dx: 42 age now 45
Treated for sciatic nerve pain 6 months prior to dx.
Heavy amount of blood in urine Unable to urinate 
Lung x-ray for pnumonia revealed multiple lesions in each lung
P.S.A. at time of dx. 3216.14
Began lupron and casodex
Cat scan showed large mass in the pelvic area affecting the bladder multiple nodules in both lungs and lymph node envolvement.
Bone scan revealed possible bone involvment in the pelvic area
Biopsy 12 of 12 cores positive gleason 3+4=7
P.S.A.s since lupron 2946, 1274, 532, 5.01 1.23, .09
Begining jan 08 psa .o9, .25, .44, .86, .73, 1.34, 1.49. Doubling time is a little over 3 months
Cat Scan 12/12/08 Prostate normal size and shape. No tumors detected. Left lung clear of all nodules right lung showing only benign scar tissue. Lymph nodes normal
Bone Scan 12/24/08. Clean!!! went off casodex January 4 2009
Current psa 2/13/09 .16
Latest P.S.A. 0.05 newest P.S.A. undetectable


Todd1963
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 3257
   Posted 4/14/2010 12:50 PM (GMT -6)   
Zufas Said
Bio Techs and Large Pharma's are into this big time...as somebody is going to have a break through, first with patent if possible would win very big. Has to do with  PARP1  inhibitor and  also BRCA (which is breast cancer related)
 
There is a guy who lives near me who developed a way for a standard v-8 engine to get over 80 mpg. It worked. His patent was bought out by some oil co. He is rich. We pay over 3 bucks at the pump and big oil is doing very well my friends
   
 
Lupron $2500.00 per injection
Casodex 800 a month
estimates for dendrons new treatment 40k for a 4 month medium life extention.
Scans blood tests doc visits etc.
 
 
Dont hold your breath!!!!!!
dx:06/03/06
Age at dx: 42 age now 45
Treated for sciatic nerve pain 6 months prior to dx.
Heavy amount of blood in urine Unable to urinate 
Lung x-ray for pnumonia revealed multiple lesions in each lung
P.S.A. at time of dx. 3216.14
Began lupron and casodex
Cat scan showed large mass in the pelvic area affecting the bladder multiple nodules in both lungs and lymph node envolvement.
Bone scan revealed possible bone involvment in the pelvic area
Biopsy 12 of 12 cores positive gleason 3+4=7
P.S.A.s since lupron 2946, 1274, 532, 5.01 1.23, .09
Begining jan 08 psa .o9, .25, .44, .86, .73, 1.34, 1.49. Doubling time is a little over 3 months
Cat Scan 12/12/08 Prostate normal size and shape. No tumors detected. Left lung clear of all nodules right lung showing only benign scar tissue. Lymph nodes normal
Bone Scan 12/24/08. Clean!!! went off casodex January 4 2009
Current psa 2/13/09 .16
Latest P.S.A. 0.05 newest P.S.A. undetectable


zufus
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 3149
   Posted 4/14/2010 1:08 PM (GMT -6)   
I hear you brother they love cashin on us and I know it, I have been on DES drug which most uro's say is junk and could kill you of course (lol), and for like 4+ years intermittently has outperformed even ADT3 drugs, I monitor psa often, little to no side effects too. Cost maybe $150 a year for me vs. $13-15,000 for ADT3 (2003-2005 then). One can do estradiol patches fairly cheap with limited side effects or emcyt (cost unknown...used by Dr. Fred Lee on himself for many years). Some onco-docs prescribe DES, I don't know of any uro-doc whom does. There is no money to be made on estradiol patches, DES and maybe emcyt.....hmmm.

Don't we love mankind....greed is highly accepted as righteousness and good living, I kind hold Mother Theresa as being the righteous role model and not Donald Trump types...soooo, which of them would actually hold you at your last dying breath and actually care???? Yeah she did it for money (LOL). She held many a dying persons to aid comfort to them in their last moments and these are not all cleaned up nice Hollywood looking types of persons....either, it has been said it is in the multiple thousands number....wow. (Calcutta and such) Luckily she has others carrying on after her works.
Youth is wasted on the Young-(W.C. Fields)


Casey59
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 3172
   Posted 4/14/2010 1:17 PM (GMT -6)   
zufus said...
Don't we love mankind....greed is highly accepted as righteousness and good living, I kind hold Mother Theresa as being the righteous role model and not Donald Trump types...soooo, which of them would actually hold you at your last dying breath and actually care???? Yeah she did it for money (LOL). She held many a dying persons to aid comfort to them in their last moments and these are not all cleaned up nice Hollywood looking types of persons....either, it has been said it is in the multiple thousands number....wow. (Calcutta and such) Luckily she has others carrying on after her works.
 
Wow...a little bitter, zufus?  I have this mental picture of you sitting at a keyboard, spewing anger so fast that what you are typing barely makes any sense to anyone else...
 
You might benefit from a "cancer-free day."  The notion of a "cancer-free day" is that you don't talk about cancer, try not to think about cancer, don't visit this site or other site, and seek-out/discover that there are other positive aspects to life going on around you that can be enjoyable if you find/make time to take them onboard in your life.  Give it a try.
 
Offered, truly, with best wishes...

Todd1963
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 3257
   Posted 4/14/2010 1:44 PM (GMT -6)   
Casey. The bitterness stems from the greed of humanity not the cancer. We and I speak for the zufas can deal with being sick but personally I cant deal with the rich repubbies who have all the lower life forms convinced that they are working for thier better interests when in fact they care only for the almighty dollar and wage a politicle war against the working man.
dx:06/03/06
Age at dx: 42 age now 45
Treated for sciatic nerve pain 6 months prior to dx.
Heavy amount of blood in urine Unable to urinate 
Lung x-ray for pnumonia revealed multiple lesions in each lung
P.S.A. at time of dx. 3216.14
Began lupron and casodex
Cat scan showed large mass in the pelvic area affecting the bladder multiple nodules in both lungs and lymph node envolvement.
Bone scan revealed possible bone involvment in the pelvic area
Biopsy 12 of 12 cores positive gleason 3+4=7
P.S.A.s since lupron 2946, 1274, 532, 5.01 1.23, .09
Begining jan 08 psa .o9, .25, .44, .86, .73, 1.34, 1.49. Doubling time is a little over 3 months
Cat Scan 12/12/08 Prostate normal size and shape. No tumors detected. Left lung clear of all nodules right lung showing only benign scar tissue. Lymph nodes normal
Bone Scan 12/24/08. Clean!!! went off casodex January 4 2009
Current psa 2/13/09 .16
Latest P.S.A. 0.05 newest P.S.A. undetectable


Todd1963
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 3257
   Posted 4/14/2010 1:44 PM (GMT -6)   
Jesus was a sociallist

dx:06/03/06
Age at dx: 42 age now 45
Treated for sciatic nerve pain 6 months prior to dx.
Heavy amount of blood in urine Unable to urinate 
Lung x-ray for pnumonia revealed multiple lesions in each lung
P.S.A. at time of dx. 3216.14
Began lupron and casodex
Cat scan showed large mass in the pelvic area affecting the bladder multiple nodules in both lungs and lymph node envolvement.
Bone scan revealed possible bone involvment in the pelvic area
Biopsy 12 of 12 cores positive gleason 3+4=7
P.S.A.s since lupron 2946, 1274, 532, 5.01 1.23, .09
Begining jan 08 psa .o9, .25, .44, .86, .73, 1.34, 1.49. Doubling time is a little over 3 months
Cat Scan 12/12/08 Prostate normal size and shape. No tumors detected. Left lung clear of all nodules right lung showing only benign scar tissue. Lymph nodes normal
Bone Scan 12/24/08. Clean!!! went off casodex January 4 2009
Current psa 2/13/09 .16
Latest P.S.A. 0.05 newest P.S.A. undetectable


Casey59
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 3172
   Posted 4/14/2010 2:17 PM (GMT -6)   
Hey...I don't disagree with much of what you just said, living1963.  But honestly, you sound just like my parents in 1968, but back then they were sitting back in their living rooms (rather than at their computer keyboards) *****ing about the "darn dirty hippies."  Find a "bitterness blog" to voice this.

zufus
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 3149
   Posted 4/14/2010 2:20 PM (GMT -6)   
Casey yeah I will take a break what the hey. Is 4 months a good number??
Youth is wasted on the Young-(W.C. Fields)


James C.
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4463
   Posted 4/14/2010 3:17 PM (GMT -6)   
Ok, guys, time to throttle it back some before tempers get too out of control. No politics and personal insults allowed, you know. I suppose I might as well mention no religious stuff either, after the Jesus comment... tongue Remember that we all are individuals and all have our own take on things and our own goals in life, so we shouldn't expect everyone to see it our way- whatever our way is... smilewinkgrin Further cuts or arguments will be edited out without any more comment...
James C. Age 63
Gonna Make Myself A Better Man www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6cX61oNsRQ&feature=channel
4/07: PSA 7.6, Recheck after 4 weeks Cipro-6.7
7/07 Biopsy: 3 of 16 PCa, 5% invloved, left lobe, GS3+3=6
9/07: Nerve Sparing open RRP, 110gms, Path Report- Stg. pT2c, 10 gms., margins clear
32 Months: PSA's .04 each test since surgery, ED continues: Bimix- .3ml PRN, Trimix- .15ml PRN


Todd1963
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 3257
   Posted 4/14/2010 3:48 PM (GMT -6)   
Ah Gee Wiz wally I was only havin a little fun roflol

dx:06/03/06
Age at dx: 42 age now 45
Treated for sciatic nerve pain 6 months prior to dx.
Heavy amount of blood in urine Unable to urinate 
Lung x-ray for pnumonia revealed multiple lesions in each lung
P.S.A. at time of dx. 3216.14
Began lupron and casodex
Cat scan showed large mass in the pelvic area affecting the bladder multiple nodules in both lungs and lymph node envolvement.
Bone scan revealed possible bone involvment in the pelvic area
Biopsy 12 of 12 cores positive gleason 3+4=7
P.S.A.s since lupron 2946, 1274, 532, 5.01 1.23, .09
Begining jan 08 psa .o9, .25, .44, .86, .73, 1.34, 1.49. Doubling time is a little over 3 months
Cat Scan 12/12/08 Prostate normal size and shape. No tumors detected. Left lung clear of all nodules right lung showing only benign scar tissue. Lymph nodes normal
Bone Scan 12/24/08. Clean!!! went off casodex January 4 2009
Current psa 2/13/09 .16
Latest P.S.A. 0.05 newest P.S.A. undetectable


Todd1963
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 3257
   Posted 4/14/2010 3:51 PM (GMT -6)   
Cant ya give a guy a break huh??? That would sure be swell.

dx:06/03/06
Age at dx: 42 age now 45
Treated for sciatic nerve pain 6 months prior to dx.
Heavy amount of blood in urine Unable to urinate 
Lung x-ray for pnumonia revealed multiple lesions in each lung
P.S.A. at time of dx. 3216.14
Began lupron and casodex
Cat scan showed large mass in the pelvic area affecting the bladder multiple nodules in both lungs and lymph node envolvement.
Bone scan revealed possible bone involvment in the pelvic area
Biopsy 12 of 12 cores positive gleason 3+4=7
P.S.A.s since lupron 2946, 1274, 532, 5.01 1.23, .09
Begining jan 08 psa .o9, .25, .44, .86, .73, 1.34, 1.49. Doubling time is a little over 3 months
Cat Scan 12/12/08 Prostate normal size and shape. No tumors detected. Left lung clear of all nodules right lung showing only benign scar tissue. Lymph nodes normal
Bone Scan 12/24/08. Clean!!! went off casodex January 4 2009
Current psa 2/13/09 .16
Latest P.S.A. 0.05 newest P.S.A. undetectable


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25394
   Posted 4/14/2010 10:24 PM (GMT -6)   
zufus,

your original post here amazed me. i barely passsed high school biology, so your post was a thousand light years over my head. sounded interesting, but i couldn't follow most of it. glad someone has the patience to study such matters at that level.

just glad to know that such research goes on, and while it may not help our personal journeys at this point in time, perhaps the next, or the next after the next generation of PC men will have a better chance at beating this scourge.

thanks for posting it.

david in sc
Age: 57, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 7/08 12.3, 9/08 14.5, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 - 7/7 Positive, 40-90% Cancer, Gleason 4+3
Open RP: 11/08, Rht nerves saved, 4 days in hospt, on catheters for 63 days, 5th one out 1/09
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin
Incontinence:  1 Month     ED:  Non issue at any point post surgery, no problem post SRT
Post Surgery  PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04
Latest: 7/9 met 2 rad. oncl, 7/9 cath #6 - blockage, 8/9 2nd corr surgery, 8/9 cath #7 out 38 days, 9/9 - met 3rd rad. oncl., mapped  9/9, 10/1 - 3rd corr. surgery - SP cath/hard dialation, 10/5 - 11/27 IMRT SRT 39 sess/72 gys ,cath #8 33 days, Cath #9 35 days, 12/7 - Cath #10 43 days, 1/19 - Corr Surgery #4,  Caths #11 and #12  same time, 2/8-Cath #11 out - 21 days, 3/2- Cath #12 out - 41 days, 3/2- Corr Surgery #5, 3/6 Cath #13 out - 4 days, Cath #14 out - 27 days, Cath #15 - 3/29


zufus
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 3149
   Posted 4/15/2010 5:35 AM (GMT -6)   
Your welcome Purg., kind of trying to show that their is on going research(everywhere) and we have jumped decades from were this was in say 1960, now these decades in medical science are and coming to us faster, more comparitively 1-2 yrs. might equal a decade from back then in gained knowledge and wisdom. Maybe it doesn't get here fast enough...I have seen that promise awhile. It will happen at some juncture and change everything we currently do in effect, the old tech is like an 8-track tape being replaced by cassettes and then CD's, mp3's and further.
Just look at the quantum leap in radiation technology from say 1980's and prior to todays methods-deliver-accuracy-effeciency. It is real significant if you look into it, not just a minor tweak thing. The leap from open prostatectomy to the LRRP (robotic) which is less than 10 yrs. old in this country, if quiet and interesting new technology and a choice.

Hey I don't comprehend all this either, the fact that they now know the mechanisms on how we can get cancers and PCa's and influence the cells-receptors and such, which is amazing science, is going to lead to real cures that are badly needed. They have been trying to get this juncture level of knowledge for decades and now, those sciences and are being revealed, so as to deal with this on cellular levels. It is actually big news...behind the scenes right now for us.
Youth is wasted on the Young-(W.C. Fields)


Arno
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2010
Total Posts : 54
   Posted 4/15/2010 12:51 PM (GMT -6)   
living1963 said...

Lupron $2500.00 per injection
Casodex 800 a month


Here in the Netherlands the 3-monthly Zoladex (10.8 mg) is 600 euro ($819), and
we have a generic version of Casodex (bicalutamide), which is, for 150 mg/day, just 90 euro ($123) per month.
The nice arrangement is that the Zoladex is is injected at your home by a nurse at no extra cost.
Diagnosed at age 63 Sep'09: PSA 575, GS 7 (4+3)
3 positive cores in 6
Bone scan: as a fully lit christmas tree
With Zoladex+150mg Casodex PSA <0.1
Additionally 4-weekly Zometa (zoledronin acid)


zufus
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 3149
   Posted 4/15/2010 2:45 PM (GMT -6)   
Thank you Arno for the example I have mentioned this before about how we are "marketed" to in the USA and  the drugs are made here by the way, too. Just know how lucrative this stuff is and other stuff...then maybe see why you are not told that there are other choices and avenues to control PCa...but those are not as lucrative and such. Wait till you price out Leukine., Zometa and some others..hold onto your brain after that quote. But, hey nobody is cashin on us (LOL).
 
Just for laughs:     CA$odex,  Lupedwrong, Zolodecked,  Pro-scared, Add-a-dart,
Zoo-met-ya,  Taxed-to-tears (chemo drug Taxotere)...hey its fun make up your own.
 


Youth is wasted on the Young-(W.C. Fields)

Post Edited (zufus) : 4/15/2010 1:55:02 PM (GMT-6)


Todd1963
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 3257
   Posted 4/15/2010 7:45 PM (GMT -6)   
Hey Zufus you are totally cool brother. TOTALLY COOL!!!!!!
dx:06/03/06
Age at dx: 42 age now 45
Treated for sciatic nerve pain 6 months prior to dx.
Heavy amount of blood in urine Unable to urinate 
Lung x-ray for pnumonia revealed multiple lesions in each lung
P.S.A. at time of dx. 3216.14
Began lupron and casodex
Cat scan showed large mass in the pelvic area affecting the bladder multiple nodules in both lungs and lymph node envolvement.
Bone scan revealed possible bone involvment in the pelvic area
Biopsy 12 of 12 cores positive gleason 3+4=7
P.S.A.s since lupron 2946, 1274, 532, 5.01 1.23, .09
Begining jan 08 psa .o9, .25, .44, .86, .73, 1.34, 1.49. Doubling time is a little over 3 months
Cat Scan 12/12/08 Prostate normal size and shape. No tumors detected. Left lung clear of all nodules right lung showing only benign scar tissue. Lymph nodes normal
Bone Scan 12/24/08. Clean!!! went off casodex January 4 2009
Current psa 2/13/09 .16
Latest P.S.A. 0.05 newest P.S.A. undetectable

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