DNA Ploidy Test

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BB_Fan
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 1011
   Posted 4/25/2010 6:21 PM (GMT -6)   
Has anybody had this test. It was not been brought up to me by my Uro or surgeon when I was considering initial treatment. Since I was not considered high risk going into surgery, I can see why it may not be considered necessary. But now that I have had BCF, and with a gleason 8, I think that the test would be of value in deciding on further treatment. I plan on bringing it up with my oncologist next week, but would like to know if there is a reason that it is not automatically done. My Uro scheduled me for a bone scan and MRI while telling the tests probably wouldn't find anything at my PSA level. By any reason not to do a test that will give you an indication of the success of future treatmen.
Dx with PC Dec 2008 at 56, PSA 3.4, Biopsy: T1c, Geason 7 (3+4)

Robotic Surgery March 2009 Hartford Hospital, Dr Wagner
Pathology Report: T2c, Geason 8, organ confined, negitive margins, lymph nodes negitive
nerves spared, no negitive side effects of surgery

One night in hospital, back to work in 3 weeks

psa Junl 09 <.01
psa Oct 09 <.01
psa Jan 10 .07 re-test one week later .05
psa Mar 10 .28 re-test two weeks later .31


BillyMac
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 1858
   Posted 4/25/2010 9:04 PM (GMT -6)   
BB, Although the ploidy analysis has been mentioned quite a few times, I can not recall any member saying they have had it done. You would think that it has a deal of value in assessing what do do pre-treatment as well as being of benefit in deciding how aggressive to be in a case of BCR. Having said that I'll wager that if you said "would it help to have a DNA Ploidy analysis of the specimen" the great majority of urologists would say "huh?"
Bill
1/05 PSA----2.9 3/06-----3.2 3/07-------4.1 5/07------3.9 All negative DREs
Aged 59 when diagnosed
Biopsy 6/07
4 of 10 cores positive for Adenocarcinoma-------bummer!
Core 1 <5%, core 2----50%, core 3----60%, core 4----50%
Biopsy Pathologist's comment:
Gleason 4+3=7 (80% grade 4) Stage T2c
Neither extracapsular nor perineural invasion is identified
CT scan and Bone scan show no evidence of metastases
Da Vinci RP Aug 10th 2007
Post-op pathology:
Positive for perineural invasion and 1 small focal extension
Negative at surgical margins, negative node and negative vesicle involvement
Some 4+4=8 identified ........upgraded to Gleason 8
PSA Oct 07 <0.1 undetectable
PSA Jan 08 <0.1 undetectable
PSA April 08 <0.001 undetectable (disregarded due to lab "misreporting")
PSA August 08 <0.001 undetectable (disregarded due to lab "misreporting")
Post-op pathology rechecked by new lab:
Gleason downgraded to 4+3=7
Focal extension comprised of grade 3 cells
PSA September 08 <0.01 (new lab)
PSA February 09 <0.01
PSA August 09 (2 year mark), <0.01
PSA December 09 <0.01
        My Journey: http://www.yananow.net/Mentors/BillM2.htm
Never underestimate old people ............ you don't get to be old by being stupid.


Steve n Dallas
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2008
Total Posts : 4829
   Posted 4/26/2010 8:23 AM (GMT -6)   

For people like me that like in a cave and have never heard of it:

DNA Ploidy and Prostate Cancer Cells

One of the many purposes of a prostate biopsy is to perform a DNA Ploidy analysis. A DNA Ploidy analysis assesses the DNA characteristics of prostate cancer cells and may be conducted after a prostate biopsy has been performed. Prostate cancer cells can be classified as diploid, tetraploid, or aneuploid according to the amount of DNA in their nuclei. Cancerous cells that are more similar to normal cells are known as diploid, meaning that the nucleus of the cell contains the appropriate number of human chromosomes. Tetraploid means the nucleus of the cell contains four times as many chromosomes as a healthy cell, while aneuploid contains either too many or too few. Studies have shown that patients with diploid cancers have longer disease-free periods and extended recurrence-free survival times. For this reason DNA Ploidy analysis may be helpful in determining the grade of your cancer. Diploid prostate cancer cells are well-differentiated, or similar to healthy cells, and are more responsive to hormonal therapy than tetraploid or aneuploid cells. Therefore DNA Ploidy analysis may be able to predict how a patient will respond to prostate cancer treatments.

http://www.prostate-cancer.com/prostate-cancer-treatment-overview/overview-dna.html

 


Age 55   - 5'11"   215lbs
Overall Heath Condition - Good
PSA - July 2007 & Jan 2008 -> 1.3
Biopsy - 03/04/08 -> Gleason 6 
06/25/08 - Da Vinci robotic laparoscopy
05/14/09  - 4th Quarter PSA -> less then .01
11/20/09 - 18 Month PSA -> less then .01
Surgeon - Keith A. Waguespack, M.D.


medved
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 1096
   Posted 4/26/2010 9:53 AM (GMT -6)   
Some of the expert pathologists who are often recommended for second opinions, such as Bostwick Labs, will (if requested) do a ploidy analysis.
Age 46.  Father died of p ca. 
My psa starting age 40: 1.4, 1.3, 1.43, 1.74, 1.7, 1.5, 1.5
 


BB_Fan
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 1011
   Posted 4/26/2010 12:15 PM (GMT -6)   
So it seems that once you have a post surgery pathology report, and know your gleason score. The test would not be needed.

Dx with PC Dec 2008 at 56, PSA 3.4, Biopsy: T1c, Geason 7 (3+4)

Robotic Surgery March 2009 Hartford Hospital, Dr Wagner
Pathology Report: T2c, Geason 8, organ confined, negitive margins, lymph nodes negitive
nerves spared, no negitive side effects of surgery

One night in hospital, back to work in 3 weeks

psa Junl 09 <.01
psa Oct 09 <.01
psa Jan 10 .07 re-test one week later .05
psa Mar 10 .28 re-test two weeks later .31


zufus
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 3149
   Posted 4/26/2010 4:48 PM (GMT -6)   
The uro-docs are parts removers, some of them don't even run nomograms and other tests, that onco docs would use. High Gleason scores if found with other than diploid DNA structures is a heads up that the PCa cells have morphed into being harder to control with drugs. Since onco docs deal with that world, they would want to know about it, especially the top flight oncos. You probably noticed I am not enamored with uro-docs, seen a few of them and their errors and agenda and bias, changed my perception of expert!

Sorry, but most of we patients trust the uro's too much and assume they know plenty, they either don't know plenty, or don't care, or won't go outside there boxes. They do know how to make decent money on patients and seem to handle the basics well...which is there realm..you should expect that. They don't usually don't know enough about 'flare' when giving Lupron, or much about psa velocity and doubling...although they are getting better now probably because we dumb patients are asking them about those things. That stuff is basic....ploidity...they probably can't spell it! (LOL)
Youth is wasted on the Young-(W.C. Fields)

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