A better predictor than total psa alone?

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medved
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Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 1096
   Posted 5/3/2010 1:58 PM (GMT -6)   
I was interested in this recently-reported study:
 
But I am not sure what “intact” PSA and "kallikrein-related peptidase 2 (hK2)" are.   Is "intact" psa the same thing as complex psa?   And what is hK2??
Age 46.  Father died of p ca. 
My psa starting age 40: 1.4, 1.3, 1.43, 1.74, 1.7, 1.5, 1.5
 


Sleepless09
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 1267
   Posted 5/3/2010 9:33 PM (GMT -6)   
Interesting -- thanks for posting. I can't even begin to think of answering your questions. I hope someone can do so. Now you've got me wondering too.

Sheldon AKA Sleepless
Age 67 in Apil '09 at news of 4 of 12 cores positive T2B and Gleason 3 + 3 and 5% to 25% PSA 1.5
Re-read of slides in June said Gleason 3 + 4 same four cores 5% to 15%
June 29 daVinci prostatectomy, Dr. Eric Estey, at Royal Alexandra Hospital Edmonton one night stay
From "knock out" to wake up in recovery less than two hours.  Actual surgery 70 minutes
Flew home to Winnipeg on July 3 after 5 nights in Ramada Inn  ---  perfect recovery spot!
Catheter out July 9
Final pathology is 3 + 4 Gleason 7, clear margins, clear nodes, T2C, sugeron says report is "excellent"
 
Oct 1st 09 -- dry at night, during day some stress issues.
Oct 31st padless 24/7 
 
First post op PSA Sept 09  less than 0.02
PSA on Oct 23 test again less than 0.02
PSA on Jan 8 less than 0.02
PSA on April 9 less than 0.02 
 
  


compiler
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 7213
   Posted 5/3/2010 10:24 PM (GMT -6)   
The answer is extremely obvious to the most casual observer, so I won't waste my time with a response.
 
Mel

63 years old . PSA-- 3/08--2.90; 8/09--4.01; 11/09--4.19 (Free PSA 24%),  after 45 days on cipro! DREs have always been normal. PCA-3 was about 75 (way above the 35 threshold). That led to:

Biopsy on 11/30/09. 5 out of 12 cores positive. Gleason 4+3. 2 cores were 3+3 (one 5% and the other 30%) on one side. On  other side:2 cores are 4+3 (5%)--1 core 3+4 (30%) no peri-neural invasion. prostate is 45 grams. Stage: T1C.  

Surgery with Dr. Menon at Ford Hospital, 1/26/10. He says all looked good. Spared nerves. Unfortunately: Pathology Report: G 4+3 (65%-35%). Cancer in 15% of gland. Lymph Nodes: Clear.  Perineural Invasion: yes. Seminal Vessical Involvement: No.  Extraprostatic Extension: yes.  Positive Margin: Yes-- focal-- 1 spot .5mm. Final Weight is 52.7 gms.  (Second opinion from Jon Epstein at Hopkins confirmed these results)

 Incontinence: joined that club-- definite leaks—1 pad/day. Night is dry, was  using 1 pad at night for security, but pretty much dispensed with that most nights. Update: no pads at night. No pads while at home, but still very uncomfortable. Use 1 pad for out-of-house activities. Suddenly got MUCH better on 3/10/10, almost overnight. Still some urgency but no pads about 90% of the time.  As of 3/12/10--completely continent! Uh...OH. As of about 3/16/10 problems with constant urgency although no pads needed--feels like an infection but none showing in urine.

First post-op PSA on 3/10/10--DRUM ROLL: 0.01 Next PSA in mid-June.


medved
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 1096
   Posted 5/4/2010 9:25 AM (GMT -6)   

I am reminded of the famous quote from Ed Sullivan's puppet:  "easy for you, difficult for me." 

 


Age 46.  Father died of p ca. 
My psa starting age 40: 1.4, 1.3, 1.43, 1.74, 1.7, 1.5, 1.5
 


compiler
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 7213
   Posted 5/4/2010 10:29 AM (GMT -6)   
I'm sorry, but I just won't waste my time with anyone who never heard of kallikrein-related peptidase 2 (hK2
 
Mel

63 years old . PSA-- 3/08--2.90; 8/09--4.01; 11/09--4.19 (Free PSA 24%),  after 45 days on cipro! DREs have always been normal. PCA-3 was about 75 (way above the 35 threshold). That led to:

Biopsy on 11/30/09. 5 out of 12 cores positive. Gleason 4+3. 2 cores were 3+3 (one 5% and the other 30%) on one side. On  other side:2 cores are 4+3 (5%)--1 core 3+4 (30%) no peri-neural invasion. prostate is 45 grams. Stage: T1C.  

Surgery with Dr. Menon at Ford Hospital, 1/26/10. He says all looked good. Spared nerves. Unfortunately: Pathology Report: G 4+3 (65%-35%). Cancer in 15% of gland. Lymph Nodes: Clear.  Perineural Invasion: yes. Seminal Vessical Involvement: No.  Extraprostatic Extension: yes.  Positive Margin: Yes-- focal-- 1 spot .5mm. Final Weight is 52.7 gms.  (Second opinion from Jon Epstein at Hopkins confirmed these results)

 Incontinence: joined that club-- definite leaks—1 pad/day. Night is dry, was  using 1 pad at night for security, but pretty much dispensed with that most nights. Update: no pads at night. No pads while at home, but still very uncomfortable. Use 1 pad for out-of-house activities. Suddenly got MUCH better on 3/10/10, almost overnight. Still some urgency but no pads about 90% of the time.  As of 3/12/10--completely continent! Uh...OH. As of about 3/16/10 problems with constant urgency although no pads needed--feels like an infection but none showing in urine.

First post-op PSA on 3/10/10--DRUM ROLL: 0.01 Next PSA in mid-June.


logoslidat
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 5879
   Posted 5/4/2010 10:48 AM (GMT -6)   
Mel, That was a rude posting. Medved, i dont what that is either and most dont, which is good for mel. That was Senor Wences, a guest on Sullivan for years, S'okay?S'awright!
age 66 First psa 4/17/09 psa 8.3, 7/27/09 psa 8.1
8/12/09 biopsy 6 out of 12 pos 2-70%, rest <5% 3+3
10/19/09 open rrp U of W Medical Center, left bundle spared
10/30/09 catheter out. continent from the jump.
pathology- prostate confined, only thing positive was the report.everything else negative
9% of prostate affected. gleason 3+4, I suppose thats a negative
After reading pathology myself, gleason was 3+4 with tertiary 5, 2-3 foci That is a negative, but I am a positive !!
Ed an issue but keeping the blood flowing with the osbon pump
8 week psa 0,o

" Hypocrisy is vice's homage to Virtue " read it in Bartlet's book of quotation years ago stuck with me, can't remember who said it.


JB71
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 206
   Posted 5/4/2010 12:03 PM (GMT -6)   
Sorry Compiler, but I have no friggen idea either. A bit short and rude and this from you ? LOL

Must have gotten out of bed from the wrong side.

Post Edited (JB71) : 5/4/2010 5:26:55 PM (GMT-6)


medved
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 1096
   Posted 5/4/2010 1:10 PM (GMT -6)   
I took Compiler's comments as a joke (because it is hard to believe anyone would say that seriously). I subscribe to a principle sometimes referred to as "dan lekaf zechut" -- judging others favorably or giving people the benefit of the doubt. So I give Mel the benefit of the doubt.
Age 46.  Father died of p ca. 
My psa starting age 40: 1.4, 1.3, 1.43, 1.74, 1.7, 1.5, 1.5
 


Casey59
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 3172
   Posted 5/4/2010 1:32 PM (GMT -6)   
It's a professor thing...

In engineering class, when working out a lengthy problem, they will skip over big steps and jump ahead, saying that these steps are "intuitively obvious to the casual observer."

Used as a joke outside of class...

compiler
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 7213
   Posted 5/4/2010 1:46 PM (GMT -6)   
GOOD GRIEF, FOLKS!!!
 
It was most definitely a joke. My first comment was a joke and just in case I made a second to underscore the fact that it WAS a joke.
 
I can't believe any of you read that as a serious post (especially the last one).
 
That should have been clear to the most casual observer!
 
Mel

63 years old . PSA-- 3/08--2.90; 8/09--4.01; 11/09--4.19 (Free PSA 24%),  after 45 days on cipro! DREs have always been normal. PCA-3 was about 75 (way above the 35 threshold). That led to:

Biopsy on 11/30/09. 5 out of 12 cores positive. Gleason 4+3. 2 cores were 3+3 (one 5% and the other 30%) on one side. On  other side:2 cores are 4+3 (5%)--1 core 3+4 (30%) no peri-neural invasion. prostate is 45 grams. Stage: T1C.  

Surgery with Dr. Menon at Ford Hospital, 1/26/10. He says all looked good. Spared nerves. Unfortunately: Pathology Report: G 4+3 (65%-35%). Cancer in 15% of gland. Lymph Nodes: Clear.  Perineural Invasion: yes. Seminal Vessical Involvement: No.  Extraprostatic Extension: yes.  Positive Margin: Yes-- focal-- 1 spot .5mm. Final Weight is 52.7 gms.  (Second opinion from Jon Epstein at Hopkins confirmed these results)

 Incontinence: joined that club-- definite leaks—1 pad/day. Night is dry, was  using 1 pad at night for security, but pretty much dispensed with that most nights. Update: no pads at night. No pads while at home, but still very uncomfortable. Use 1 pad for out-of-house activities. Suddenly got MUCH better on 3/10/10, almost overnight. Still some urgency but no pads about 90% of the time.  As of 3/12/10--completely continent! Uh...OH. As of about 3/16/10 problems with constant urgency although no pads needed--feels like an infection but none showing in urine.

First post-op PSA on 3/10/10--DRUM ROLL: 0.01 Next PSA in mid-June.


TheOldFart
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2010
Total Posts : 34
   Posted 5/4/2010 5:27 PM (GMT -6)   
I laughed and took it as a joke the second I read it. I use the same line at times. I guess I understood because I was a mechanical engineer before I retired. Still remember those college classes. :)

compiler
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 7213
   Posted 5/4/2010 6:47 PM (GMT -6)   

I'm surprised anyone took it seriously. At least one person gave me "the benefit of the doubt."

Sheeessshhhhh..

 

 

Ok, 'nuff said by me.

 

Mel


63 years old . PSA-- 3/08--2.90; 8/09--4.01; 11/09--4.19 (Free PSA 24%),  after 45 days on cipro! DREs have always been normal. PCA-3 was about 75 (way above the 35 threshold). That led to:

Biopsy on 11/30/09. 5 out of 12 cores positive. Gleason 4+3. 2 cores were 3+3 (one 5% and the other 30%) on one side. On  other side:2 cores are 4+3 (5%)--1 core 3+4 (30%) no peri-neural invasion. prostate is 45 grams. Stage: T1C.  

Surgery with Dr. Menon at Ford Hospital, 1/26/10. He says all looked good. Spared nerves. Unfortunately: Pathology Report: G 4+3 (65%-35%). Cancer in 15% of gland. Lymph Nodes: Clear.  Perineural Invasion: yes. Seminal Vessical Involvement: No.  Extraprostatic Extension: yes.  Positive Margin: Yes-- focal-- 1 spot .5mm. Final Weight is 52.7 gms.  (Second opinion from Jon Epstein at Hopkins confirmed these results)

 Incontinence: joined that club-- definite leaks—1 pad/day. Night is dry, was  using 1 pad at night for security, but pretty much dispensed with that most nights. Update: no pads at night. No pads while at home, but still very uncomfortable. Use 1 pad for out-of-house activities. Suddenly got MUCH better on 3/10/10, almost overnight. Still some urgency but no pads about 90% of the time.  As of 3/12/10--completely continent! Uh...OH. As of about 3/16/10 problems with constant urgency although no pads needed--feels like an infection but none showing in urine.

First post-op PSA on 3/10/10--DRUM ROLL: 0.01 Next PSA in mid-June.


livinadream
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 1382
   Posted 5/6/2010 7:54 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks for the humor Mel you are good

peace to you
dale
My PSA at diagnosis was 16.3
age 47 (current)

http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/dalechildress

My gleason score from prostate was 4+5=9 and from the lymph nodes (3 positive) was 4+4=8
I had 44 IMRT's
Casodex
Currently on Lupron
I go to The Cancer Treatment Center of America
Married with two kids
latest PSA 5-27-08 0.11

PSA July 24th, 2008 is 0.04
PSA Dec 16th, 2008 is .016
PSA Mar 30th, 2009 is .02
PSA July 28th 2009 is .01
PSA OCt 15th 2009 is .11
PSA Jan 15th 2010 is .13
PSA April 16th of 2010 is .16
Testosterone keeps rising, the current number is 156, up from 57 in May

T level dropped to 37 Mar 30th, 2009
cancer in 4 of 6 cores
92%
80%
37%
28%

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