Low testosterone

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beachbum50
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 292
   Posted 6/4/2010 12:27 PM (GMT -6)   
I had the Urologist test for low testosterone, and just had a call from his Nurse, I was right, it's very low. We had spoken about it, and he felt that as the Pca had not spred, and all my PSA results have been undetectable, he would not have a problem with treating the low testosterone. I am set to visit a Endo Doctor, but wondered has anyone else been down this road? My first research would lead me to think that at 55, the problems from low levels may outweigh the negatives?
 
Beachbum turn
 
Life's a beach!
Beachbum
 
PSA 10 June 2007
Biopsy July 2, 15 of 16 samples positive
T2C
3+3=6
prostate weighed 40 grams
Di Vinci 10/09/07, four hours on table, 3 in recovery
Total time in Hospital: 29 hours, 3+4=7
Record for Dr. Lance, 65% of prostate had cancer, but NO spread, clean margins,Clean nodes,
First PSA at 5 weeks, UNDETECTABLE!
Catheter out at seven days, dry from hour one!
Second PSA 19 weeks post op, UNDETECTABLE 2/11/2008
Third PSA 5/12/08, six months post op, UNDETECTABLE
Fourth PSA 8/21/08, nine months post op, UNDETECTABLE
One Year visit in December 2008, UNDETECTABLE, now go visit every six months!
5/22/09 10 m0nth visit, still UNDETECTABLE
11/23/09 two year PSA still UNDETECTABLE
05/24/10 two and a half year checkup, once again UNDETECTABLE
The Lord has truly Blessed me.


medved
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 1096
   Posted 6/4/2010 12:32 PM (GMT -6)   
I dont know the answer to your question, but I suggest you talk with your doctor about getting a bone density test (probably QCT). Low T levels can be associated with bone density issues, and those can be addressed if you know about them.
Age 46.  Father died of p ca. 
My psa starting age 40: 1.4, 1.3, 1.43, 1.74, 1.7, 1.5, 1.5
 


lowt123
New Member


Date Joined Jun 2010
Total Posts : 1
   Posted 6/17/2010 1:20 PM (GMT -6)   
Hello – I’m doing some research on hypogonadism (also known as Low Testosterone or Low T) to better understand how the condition impacts men who have it and how they treat it.  I would appreciate any and all responses to this very quick survey. http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/NNT6JBZ

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 6/17/2010 1:35 PM (GMT -6)   
I have reported the above post to Admin, to see if it has been aprroved, or just spam.
Age: 57, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 7/08 12.3, 9/08 14.5, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 - 7/7 Positive, 40-90% Cancer, Gleason 4+3
Open RP: 11/08, Rht nerves saved, 4 days in hospt, on catheters for 63 days, 5th one out 1/09
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin
Incontinence:  1 Month     ED:  Non issue at any point post surgery, no problem post SRT
Post Surgery  PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, next one:  July
Latest: 7/9 met 2 rad. oncl, 7/9 cath #6 - blockage, 8/9 2nd corr surgery, 8/9 cath #7 out 38 days, 9/9 - met 3rd rad. oncl., mapped  9/9, 10/1 - 3rd corr. surgery - SP cath/hard dialation, 10/5 - 11/27 IMRT SRT 39 sess/72 gys ,cath #8 33 days, Cath #9 35 days, 12/7 - Cath #10 43 days, 1/19 - Corr Surgery #4,  Caths #11 and #12  same time, 2/8-Cath #11 out - 21 days, 3/2- Cath #12 out - 41 days, 3/2- Corr Surgery #5, 3/6 Cath #13 out - 4 days, Cath #14- 27 days, Cath #15 - 26 days, Cath #16 - 31 days, 5/24 put in Cath #17


Im_Patient
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 665
   Posted 6/17/2010 1:52 PM (GMT -6)   
Beachbum, I too had low testosterone at about the onset of my PCa (all docs insist it is coincidence and not my body reacting to the cancer). I believe it contributed to my ED recovery, and was related to some amount of depression. My surgeon was OK with me getting gel treatments to increase the testosterone. I was in the range of 180-280 without supplementation. Gel got me to where normal is supposed to be (around 500), and it definitely made me feel more like a normal guy again. My levels were all over the map, however, from 200-800, and the doc got tired of trying to chase it with adjusting the dosage. She was just ready to insert a testopel into my butt (which is a 6-month dosage that obviates the need for the gel, which is a hassle everyday) when my PSA became non-detectable. My wife is a bit upset about it all, wondering if the supplementation helped speed up the recurrence, but I don't regret it (I think...). I wanted to have a shot at getting the ED in check, and would have been wondering and probably resentful if I hadn't had the opportunity. My GP said that I was lucky he wasn't treating me, because there would be no way he would prescribe any testosterone, ever. So I think it is a matter of opinion from the medical field about supplementing testosterone at all. For that matter, there are a few outliers that believe that more testosterone is actually combative to PCa (but those MDs are definitely in the vast minority).

When I had a recurrence, I immediately stopped supplementing, and didn't get the testopel (in fact, I was days away from that mistake), and now I won't get the opportunity to increase my testosterone, I figure, ever. Oh, well, as others have said on the site here many times... it is what it is.

As for your case, I can't venture an opinion, just share mine. I think you're playing a little with fire, but not everyone that does gets burned.
Regards, Jeff
Gleason, 3+4; PSA, 7.9
Robotic Prostatectomy, March 2008 (Age 48 then), nerves both sides spared, post surgery analysis confirmed 3+4 Gleason,
pT2c, prostate 60.2g, margins: negative; perineural invasion: present; lymphatic invasion: present; 3 lymph nodes removed, clear; seminal vesicle invasion: absent; Gleason 4 comprises 5-10% of carcinoma
PSA consistently <0.1 since surgery until Oct 09: 0.1; retested Oct 09, <0.1,
Jan 10, 0.2
retest Feb 1 confirmed 0.2
CT scan, bone scan Feb 10 both clear
PSA after, 2010: March, 0.17; April, 0.17; May, 0.24; June, 0.31
Starting salvage IGRT in beginning August


Radical
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 739
   Posted 6/17/2010 3:44 PM (GMT -6)   
I too suffer from low testosterone, being in Australia and Not America, somehow the measurement scale is different as my testosterone level is 8, normal range 11-37.  I know you guys measure in the hundreds !.  Docs here very reluctant to prescribe any from of testosterone replacement, after pca. 
I have done some research in relation to lifting levels naturally, and found the best way was to start weightlifting, which I did for a period of 3 months and had myself retested, and the results came back as 13, which is great. 
Problem is do I need to keep weightlifting for the rest of my life !  There must be an easier way, just got to find it.  Have tried supplements with no great results.
Any Idea's would be appreciated.....................Kev
Age 52yrs
6 out of 8 cores positive 3 X 60% / 3 X 10%
PSA 4 Gleason Score 3+4=7 Stage T1c
Robotic Surgery 24/12/08
Upgrade Gleason Score 4+3=7 Gleason Differential 60%/40%
Stage T2c Three small foci total volume <10%
Neg Margins and Nodes
Nil - Extraprostatic Extentions
Dry less than 1 week. ED- okay with Meds.
PSA at 18mths no change remains 0.03
"Everyday in Everyway I get better"


Admin
Forum Administrator


Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 9769
   Posted 6/17/2010 4:02 PM (GMT -6)   
this is approved.
Peter Waite, Founder/Editor
HealingWell.com - Community, Information, Resources
www.healingwell.com


NY-Sooner
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 463
   Posted 6/18/2010 6:15 AM (GMT -6)   
What is considered low testosteron levels?  Ever since my surgey I have had an almost non existant libido.  I was very blessed in that I have no Ed issues from my surgery, and can get rock solid erections without drugs.  But since my surgery, I just don't have desires for sex no more, nothing.  I had my testosteron checked and it came in at 350 and my doc said that was normal for my age of 59.  What is considered low, and would low T cause a complete loss of lidido?
 
Age 56, Biopsy 6/2007 - PSA 4.5, 2 of 12 with  <5% cancer Gleason 6
Surgery 9/2007 Strong Memorial,  Rochester  NY with Dr. Jean Joseph (1300 plus surgeries)
 Path - Negative margins, cancer in 20% examined tissue, Gleason 6
 Post Op - No ED issues, full erections without drugs,  used 5-7 pads a day for 3 months. Now dry except for stress leaks now and then.
 All post op psa's <.04


Im_Patient
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 665
   Posted 6/18/2010 11:06 PM (GMT -6)   
Low libido is a common result of the surgery for many men. Apparently, it is not too well known why this is. It could be partially due to the hassles that some of us have to go through to get working erections, but in your case, Sooner, that wouldn't be it (good for you!) 350 does not sound particularly low. My understanding is that T levels drop gradually as men age, and for your age, a range of 240 to over 500 would be considered normal. My doc was aiming for 500 when I was supplementing, which is about the mean for younger men. My last reading was 130, and I can definitely tell the difference libido-wise compared to when I was supplementing.

I'll also say that even when I was at normal T levels via supplementation, I still did not have the libido I had prior to surgery. I have to believe that some of this is physiological and not psychological.
Gleason, 3+4; PSA, 7.9
Robotic Prostatectomy, March 2008 (Age 48 then), nerves both sides spared, post surgery analysis confirmed 3+4 Gleason,
pT2c, prostate 60.2g, margins: negative; perineural invasion: present; lymphatic invasion: present; 3 lymph nodes removed, clear; seminal vesicle invasion: absent; Gleason 4 comprises 5-10% of carcinoma
PSA consistently <0.1 since surgery until Oct 09: 0.1; retested Oct 09, <0.1,
Jan 10, 0.2
retest Feb 1 confirmed 0.2
CT scan, bone scan Feb 10 both clear
PSA after, 2010: March, 0.17; April, 0.17; May, 0.24; June, 0.31
Starting salvage IGRT in beginning August


Swimom
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 1732
   Posted 6/20/2010 9:42 AM (GMT -6)   
Testosterone is like most other hormones in the body; "normal" for one person may be quite different for another but, there are definately ranges.
A man of 59 probably will not feel like his normal self with a level of 350 however, physically, there is enough to sustain muscle mass and bone density. I would absolutely expect low libido and perhaps a little unexplained loss of the oh-so important general sense of well being...a little zing is missing.
 
It's important to know the causes as well as the possible treatments of endo issues. While it won't erase the fact that for a lot of men with a PCA history, hormone replacement is not an option, some men can (and should) be treated safely. Bottom line...hormones, the whole feedback loop thing; it's complicated. It requires doing one's homework in anatomy/physiology and pathophysiology to even begin sorting  it all out. The question is; why is this happening?? It might be an elevated estradiol, could be a loss of testosterone for who knows what reason. The question to me personally is; is this problem seriously affecting a man's quality of life? If it is, seek answers as to see if treatment options are available.
 Hilarem datorum diligit Deus


beachbum50
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 292
   Posted 6/28/2010 9:32 AM (GMT -6)   
Thanks to each of you for your thoughts, I am meeting with an Endo in August to see what might be causing the low T, and if he has any options before I make any decisions. Swimom, yes, God does love a cheerful giver, have not seen that in Latin since my Latin 1 class in 1971!
 
Lifes a Beach, watch out for the crabs!
Beachbum tongue
Beachbum
 
PSA 10 June 2007
Biopsy July 2, 15 of 16 samples positive
T2C
3+3=6
prostate weighed 40 grams
Di Vinci 10/09/07, four hours on table, 3 in recovery
Total time in Hospital: 29 hours, 3+4=7
Record for Dr. Lance, 65% of prostate had cancer, but NO spread, clean margins,Clean nodes,
First PSA at 5 weeks, UNDETECTABLE!
Catheter out at seven days, dry from hour one!
Second PSA 19 weeks post op, UNDETECTABLE 2/11/2008
Third PSA 5/12/08, six months post op, UNDETECTABLE
Fourth PSA 8/21/08, nine months post op, UNDETECTABLE
One Year visit in December 2008, UNDETECTABLE, now go visit every six months!
5/22/09 10 m0nth visit, still UNDETECTABLE
11/23/09 two year PSA still UNDETECTABLE
05/24/10 two and a half year checkup, once again UNDETECTABLE
The Lord has truly Blessed me.


JB71
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 206
   Posted 6/28/2010 11:16 AM (GMT -6)   
My testosterone is in the basement somewhere. After 90 days of Lupron it dropped to 0.6. Yes, thats right and like NotHard in Australia, the numbers in Canada are similar, a range should be between 7 and 38.

Can anyone offer a conversion system for this so at least I'll be able to understand the numbers from guys who are reporting 350 to 800 ?

Lupron is finished ( I HOPE !), surgery and radiation also so I' think I should be raising that testosterone number again.

What does everyone think ?

Jerry from Canada.


Pete trips again!
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 1899
   Posted 6/29/2010 10:10 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi Beach Bum, sorry to hear about your low T. I used to post here a long time ago, well a couple years anyway! I suffered w/ low T for 2 &1/2 years after my radical (7 years ago this Aug.!!!) and had no idea what was wrong w/ me! Depression got really bad along w/ other problems like no libido and penis atrofie. It got so bad after seeing shrinks and doc's who thought I was outright crazy and so did I!!!!
Once descovered by my primary care doc who refused to treat me, I was unable to find a doc, endo or uro who would treat me w/ TRT or testosterrone replacement theropy! They all told me it was like throwing gas on fire to give me T after having P/C!!! I finally found a doc who was speeking at an "Us Too" meeting who said he believed that ones quality of life was important and agreed to treat me. Then here in H/W I met Swimom who's husband had low T and Biker Jim had just been diognosed also! With their help and the support of other here, especially Jet Guy, I learned how to live again!!! I can't say enough about them!!! I started w/ the gels like Testim and the other one, I forget the name but my T kept dropping and I needed more and more gel which became rediculis!!! So I started shots at the Dr's office after about a year on the gels! I was getting one a month which worked for about another year or so. Then blood tests showed that between 3 and 4 weeks my T would drop like a lead balloon! Like from 600 to 75 in that 3rd week! So I started getting a shot every 3 weeks at the dr's office which began getting expensive!! So we made arangements to have my wife give me a shot every 3 weeks and thats where I an today! I can still feel it dropping twards the end of the 3rd week ( I start falling asleep and getting really tired) Also my libido goes sky high about a week after my shot (my poor wife!) then drops off twards the third week> (no intrest!)
This problem is much more common than they used to think w/ post radical patiants!!! There are a lot of us!!! The Docs have also loosened up alot more then they were back when I was diagnosed. Many more will treat you if you have zeros on your PSA tests for over a year or two and a low grade Gleason score!!!
So Good luck and if you have any questions, I will check in here for a few days!
Your Friend,
Pete


When I was young & stupid I broke almost every bone in my body and I'm paying a heavy price now but I'm still here and so glad to see my two sons grow up to be fine young men, both are in the Navy. I'm so proud! My biggest health problem>> I'm a certified Luny~Tune!!


Im_Patient
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 665
   Posted 6/29/2010 9:55 PM (GMT -6)   
OK, I did a little looking online...
I can't give you a conversion yet, but the US units of testosterone serum levels are ng/dl, for what that's worth. If you have the units for Australia/Canada, I know enough chemistry to be dangerous, I can do the conversion (or plug it into google, it is amazing at conversions).
Jeff
Gleason, 3+4; PSA, 7.9
Robotic Prostatectomy, March 2008 (Age 48 then), nerves both sides spared, post surgery analysis confirmed 3+4 Gleason,
pT2c, prostate 60.2g, margins: negative; perineural invasion: present; lymphatic invasion: present; 3 lymph nodes removed, clear; seminal vesicle invasion: absent; Gleason 4 comprises 5-10% of carcinoma
PSA consistently <0.1 since surgery until Oct 09: 0.1; retested Oct 09, <0.1,
Jan 10, 0.2
retest Feb 1 confirmed 0.2
CT scan, bone scan Feb 10 both clear
PSA after, 2010: March, 0.17; April, 0.17; May, 0.24; June, 0.31
Starting salvage IGRT on August 4


Im_Patient
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 665
   Posted 6/30/2010 10:52 PM (GMT -6)   
OK, a little more looking online, the difference is this:
US uses ng/dL, Australia / Canada uses nmol/L. See "sex hormone" at this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reference_ranges_for_blood_tests
It appears that you multiply the Aus/Canada reading by 28.8 to get the US reading, since there are 288.42 g/mole for testosterone if this page is correct:
http://forum.onlineconversion.com/showthread.php?t=11328 .
Jeff
Gleason, 3+4; PSA, 7.9
Robotic Prostatectomy, March 2008 (Age 48 then), nerves both sides spared, post surgery analysis confirmed 3+4 Gleason,
pT2c, prostate 60.2g, margins: negative; perineural invasion: present; lymphatic invasion: present; 3 lymph nodes removed, clear; seminal vesicle invasion: absent; Gleason 4 comprises 5-10% of carcinoma
PSA consistently <0.1 since surgery until Oct 09: 0.1; retested Oct 09, <0.1,
Jan 10, 0.2
retest Feb 1 confirmed 0.2
CT scan, bone scan Feb 10 both clear
PSA after, 2010: March, 0.17; April, 0.17; May, 0.24; June, 0.31
Starting salvage IGRT on August 4


beachbum50
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 292
   Posted 7/2/2010 10:13 AM (GMT -6)   
Thanks Pete and all who have posted here. I will let you know what the Endo. has to say after my visit next month.
 
Beachbum turn
Beachbum
 
PSA 10 June 2007
Biopsy July 2, 15 of 16 samples positive
T2C
3+3=6
prostate weighed 40 grams
Di Vinci 10/09/07, four hours on table, 3 in recovery
Total time in Hospital: 29 hours, 3+4=7
Record for Dr. Lance, 65% of prostate had cancer, but NO spread, clean margins,Clean nodes,
First PSA at 5 weeks, UNDETECTABLE!
Catheter out at seven days, dry from hour one!
Second PSA 19 weeks post op, UNDETECTABLE 2/11/2008
Third PSA 5/12/08, six months post op, UNDETECTABLE
Fourth PSA 8/21/08, nine months post op, UNDETECTABLE
One Year visit in December 2008, UNDETECTABLE, now go visit every six months!
5/22/09 10 m0nth visit, still UNDETECTABLE
11/23/09 two year PSA still UNDETECTABLE
05/24/10 two and a half year checkup, once again UNDETECTABLE
The Lord has truly Blessed me.

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