Here we go again....Overtreatments

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Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25364
   Posted 6/15/2010 10:24 AM (GMT -6)   
Hot off the press:
 
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37690573/ns/health-cancer/
Age: 57, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 7/08 12.3, 9/08 14.5, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 - 7/7 Positive, 40-90% Cancer, Gleason 4+3
Open RP: 11/08, Rht nerves saved, 4 days in hospt, on catheters for 63 days, 5th one out 1/09
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin
Incontinence:  1 Month     ED:  Non issue at any point post surgery, no problem post SRT
Post Surgery  PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, next one:  July
Latest: 7/9 met 2 rad. oncl, 7/9 cath #6 - blockage, 8/9 2nd corr surgery, 8/9 cath #7 out 38 days, 9/9 - met 3rd rad. oncl., mapped  9/9, 10/1 - 3rd corr. surgery - SP cath/hard dialation, 10/5 - 11/27 IMRT SRT 39 sess/72 gys ,cath #8 33 days, Cath #9 35 days, 12/7 - Cath #10 43 days, 1/19 - Corr Surgery #4,  Caths #11 and #12  same time, 2/8-Cath #11 out - 21 days, 3/2- Cath #12 out - 41 days, 3/2- Corr Surgery #5, 3/6 Cath #13 out - 4 days, Cath #14- 27 days, Cath #15 - 26 days, Cath #16 - 31 days, 5/24 put in Cath #17


Zen9
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 310
   Posted 6/15/2010 10:52 AM (GMT -6)   

Get used to it, Purge.

Overtreatment (which is a different issue than screening) is real; it is serious; and I predict that more than a few men who have had the quality of lives needlessly degraded are going to lash out at the medical profession that did it to them.

The people on this board are not a representative cross-section of all prostate cancer patients.  Not even close.

On a more personal note, how are the preparations for your return to full-time employment coming?  I am very happy for you.  :-)

Zen9


Post Edited (Zen9) : 6/15/2010 11:14:58 AM (GMT-6)


Zen9
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 310
   Posted 6/15/2010 11:45 AM (GMT -6)   
Maybe if you can just get through the first few weeks and show them everything you bring to the table, they would then let you work from home.  A lot of people do that these days.
 
Or maybe push back the starting date to get in a few weeks of hyperbaric treatment to reduce the level of pain.  The abstracts I read looked pretty promising.
 
Zen9
 
 

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25364
   Posted 6/15/2010 1:26 PM (GMT -6)   
(I just deleted my own post by choice, TMI)
Age: 57, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 7/08 12.3, 9/08 14.5, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 - 7/7 Positive, 40-90% Cancer, Gleason 4+3
Open RP: 11/08, Rht nerves saved, 4 days in hospt, on catheters for 63 days, 5th one out 1/09
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin
Incontinence:  1 Month     ED:  Non issue at any point post surgery, no problem post SRT
Post Surgery  PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, next one:  July
Latest: 7/9 met 2 rad. oncl, 7/9 cath #6 - blockage, 8/9 2nd corr surgery, 8/9 cath #7 out 38 days, 9/9 - met 3rd rad. oncl., mapped  9/9, 10/1 - 3rd corr. surgery - SP cath/hard dialation, 10/5 - 11/27 IMRT SRT 39 sess/72 gys ,cath #8 33 days, Cath #9 35 days, 12/7 - Cath #10 43 days, 1/19 - Corr Surgery #4,  Caths #11 and #12  same time, 2/8-Cath #11 out - 21 days, 3/2- Cath #12 out - 41 days, 3/2- Corr Surgery #5, 3/6 Cath #13 out - 4 days, Cath #14- 27 days, Cath #15 - 26 days, Cath #16 - 31 days, 5/24 put in Cath #17


Zen9
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 310
   Posted 6/15/2010 1:54 PM (GMT -6)   

My apologies if I upset you.  That was never my intention, just the opposite actually.

Zen9


Zen9
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 310
   Posted 6/15/2010 2:27 PM (GMT -6)   
I hear you.  I haven't had your pain, couldn't have handled it.  But I have lost my wife, my house, and my career.  I go in for my next PSA test next month, anxiety already starting to build, and I found myself thinking last night - you know, either result would be OK. 
 
But we've both got good PSA test results; you will eventually heal; and someday many years from now we'll both look back on this time as just a low period in our lives.
 
Zen9

April6th
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2010
Total Posts : 264
   Posted 6/15/2010 3:32 PM (GMT -6)   
Sorry but I believe this article is a POS at worst and shoddy reporting at best.

There is no attribution to the studies they quote and the reporter presents one sentence conclusions from the studies. The conclusions from studies can rarely be summed up in one sentence.

Another flaw is that they are measuring survival rates for groups of men who have or have not had PSA screening. Very very tough to do with a disease that may take 10-15 years to prove fatal.

And there is a big difference between over treatment and over testing. I cannot imagine any man who would not want to know if they had prostate cancer even if it was the mildest form possible. Information is power. The problem that arises is that the medical community doesn't always know how to interprept the information and accurately and reliably to determine the treatment. This is the aspect that needs improvement.

A PSA test is (relatively) cheap and painless--I hope this article doesn't discourage anyone from having the test. Its not like the test is as invasive as a biopsy.

Dan
Here are some of my stats:
Age:54
Father diagnosed with PC at age 72 - wasn't contained to prostate when found in 1992.
My PSA rose from 3.2 to 5.1 over the course of 1.5 years with Free PSA at 25% for the last two tests.
DRE showed no evidence of tumor but Uro thought my prostate was a little large for someone my age
PCa diagnosed 4/6/10 after biopsy on 4/1/10
1 out of 12 biopsy samples was positive with 5% of biopsy sample cancerous
Gleason 3+4
Da Vinci surgery on 6/1/10
Pathology report shows cancer confined to prostate and all other tissue clean


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25364
   Posted 6/15/2010 7:20 PM (GMT -6)   
zen, I am truly sorry for the things you have lost along the way - they are all biggies, i.e. the wife, house and career. That would be hard to deal with on top of dealing with PC. My wife is my rock of sanity through all of this, I couldn't imagine fighting my fight without her strength and wisdom. That's why I never ever like to judge anyone else, we never know what burdens another person bears. As miserable as my situation can keep me, I am all too aware that there are so many more people in worse situations. I admire you for holding your head up through your own personal losses.

Dan - I am certainly not approving or agreeing to that link. It popped up on the news, and I passed it along. I am a big believer in regular PSA tests and DRE's. It's what you don't know, that can kill you. And there is nothing invasive about it, and even cost isn't a major factor to keep any man from being tested.

David in sC
Age: 57, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 7/08 12.3, 9/08 14.5, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 - 7/7 Positive, 40-90% Cancer, Gleason 4+3
Open RP: 11/08, Rht nerves saved, 4 days in hospt, on catheters for 63 days, 5th one out 1/09
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin
Incontinence:  1 Month     ED:  Non issue at any point post surgery, no problem post SRT
Post Surgery  PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, next one:  July
Latest: 7/9 met 2 rad. oncl, 7/9 cath #6 - blockage, 8/9 2nd corr surgery, 8/9 cath #7 out 38 days, 9/9 - met 3rd rad. oncl., mapped  9/9, 10/1 - 3rd corr. surgery - SP cath/hard dialation, 10/5 - 11/27 IMRT SRT 39 sess/72 gys ,cath #8 33 days, Cath #9 35 days, 12/7 - Cath #10 43 days, 1/19 - Corr Surgery #4,  Caths #11 and #12  same time, 2/8-Cath #11 out - 21 days, 3/2- Cath #12 out - 41 days, 3/2- Corr Surgery #5, 3/6 Cath #13 out - 4 days, Cath #14- 27 days, Cath #15 - 26 days, Cath #16 - 31 days, 5/24 put in Cath #17


April6th
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2010
Total Posts : 264
   Posted 6/15/2010 7:51 PM (GMT -6)   
David, I didn't assume you were posting it because you agreed (or disagreed) with it---it was just something noteworthy that we would be interested in.

Dan
Here are some of my stats:
Age:54
Father diagnosed with PC at age 72 - wasn't contained to prostate when found in 1992.
My PSA rose from 3.2 to 5.1 over the course of 1.5 years with Free PSA at 25% for the last two tests.
DRE showed no evidence of tumor but Uro thought my prostate was a little large for someone my age
PCa diagnosed 4/6/10 after biopsy on 4/1/10
1 out of 12 biopsy samples was positive with 5% of biopsy sample cancerous
Gleason 3+4
Da Vinci surgery on 6/1/10
Pathology report shows cancer confined to prostate and all other tissue clean

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