Red Wine and Green Tea - Benefits

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Sharp18
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Date Joined Mar 2010
Total Posts : 78
   Posted 6/15/2010 8:45 PM (GMT -6)   
I've just came across an interesting article:
 
 
"Scientists have discovered why red wine and green tea can stop the growth of prostate cancer. Results of a new study explain that the antioxidants in these two beverages can disrupt a specific signaling process that is required for prostate cancer to grow.

Green tea and its major antioxidant, a polyphenol called epigallocatechin gallate (EGCG) have been studied extensively as a possible treatment for various diseases, including prostate cancer. Similarly, the polyphenols in red wine, including resveratrol, have been investigated for their cancer-fighting potential. Despite promising results, scientists were unable to identify the reason why these polyphenols had a positive impact on cancer growth.

The answer appears to lie in a signaling pathway called sphingosine kinase-1/sphingosine 1-phosphate (SphK1/S1P). In the new study, which involved scientists from both France and Japan, it was found that “Not only does SphK1/S1P signaling pathway play a role in prostate cancer, but it also plays a role in other cancers,” according to Gerald Weissman, MD, editor-in-chief of The FASEB Journal, which published the study.

The scientists first conducted in vitro experiments which indicated that inhibiting the SphK1/S1P pathway was necessary for the polyphenols to kill prostate cancer cells. They then used mice that had been genetically altered to develop human prostate cancer and treated some of the animals with green tea and red wine polyphenols. Tumor growth in the treated mice was reduced because of the inhibited SphK1/S1P pathway.

The scientists then conducted yet another experiment in which they used three groups of mice that had human prostate cancer cells implanted into them: one received regular water, another water with green tea polyphenol EGCG, and the third with another green tea compound, polyphenon E. Tumor size in the mice that drank either the EGCG or polyphenon E water decreased in size dramatically.

Weissman noted that even if future studies do not show that green tea and red wine are as effective as many people hope they will be, knowing why their polyphenols have the potential to stop prostate cancer could result in the development of drugs that could significantly improve treatment the disease, and others. In moderation, he said that “all signs show that red wine and green tea may be ranked among the most potent ‘health foods’ we know.”

 

RCS
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Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 1247
   Posted 6/16/2010 6:22 PM (GMT -6)   
Sharp18,
 
I'll drink to that!
 
Thanks for a most interesting article.  I wondered why various PC diets included green teas and why red wines were supposed to be better for me than whites (I do like the whites...).
 
Very informative ... thanks again.
PSA 2007 - 2.8
PSA 11/24/2008 - 7.6
Pc Dx 2/11/09; age at Dx 62
RLP 4/20/09
Biopsy -  Invasive moderately differentiated prostatic andenocarconoma; G 3+3=6; PT2C; No evidence of Seminal Vesicle or Extraprostatic Involvement; Margins clear; Tumor identified in sections from prostatic apex.
70 gram prostate.
Immediately continent after removal of cath.
ED - Trimix works well; viagra @ 60%
PSA - 7/31/09 <0.06
PSA - 12/1/09 <0.06
PSA - 3/29/10 <0.06
 
 
 


larch
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2010
Total Posts : 47
   Posted 6/16/2010 8:26 PM (GMT -6)   
As one with well above average lifetime consumption of both red wine and blended tea, me and my Gleason 7 can attest that genetics trumps red wine and green tea.

I appreciate that we are talking trends and tendencies, and I certainly would not discourage anyone from taking my path of wines and teas, but those who adopt this diet should expect no immunity from my path of a Gleason 7 diagnosis.

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 6/16/2010 8:50 PM (GMT -6)   
As one who is also a Gleason 7 and never drinks Red wine, or any other spirits, and never drinks tea or coffee.
Age: 57, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 7/08 12.3, 9/08 14.5, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 - 7/7 Positive, 40-90% Cancer, Gleason 4+3
Open RP: 11/08, Rht nerves saved, 4 days in hospt, on catheters for 63 days, 5th one out 1/09
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin
Incontinence:  1 Month     ED:  Non issue at any point post surgery, no problem post SRT
Post Surgery  PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, next one:  July
Latest: 7/9 met 2 rad. oncl, 7/9 cath #6 - blockage, 8/9 2nd corr surgery, 8/9 cath #7 out 38 days, 9/9 - met 3rd rad. oncl., mapped  9/9, 10/1 - 3rd corr. surgery - SP cath/hard dialation, 10/5 - 11/27 IMRT SRT 39 sess/72 gys ,cath #8 33 days, Cath #9 35 days, 12/7 - Cath #10 43 days, 1/19 - Corr Surgery #4,  Caths #11 and #12  same time, 2/8-Cath #11 out - 21 days, 3/2- Cath #12 out - 41 days, 3/2- Corr Surgery #5, 3/6 Cath #13 out - 4 days, Cath #14- 27 days, Cath #15 - 26 days, Cath #16 - 31 days, 5/24 put in Cath #17


eggbe
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 33
   Posted 6/17/2010 1:42 PM (GMT -6)   
We have also been told coffee can prevent prostate cancer. Well, I rarely eat red meat and do eat lots of fish, drink red wine and lots of coffee. No smoking and not overweight, but alas gleason 7. Someone needs to renegotiate our contract with the creator and get some guarantees and warranties.


age 59 psa 6.3 Nov 2009
gleason 7 (4+3) Dec 2009
HIFU 1-17-10
PSA 0.2 3-4-10 (before recommended 3 months wait)
PSA 0.1 4/14/10


RCS
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 1247
   Posted 6/17/2010 4:31 PM (GMT -6)   
Did any of you guys use cell phones?  I did.  Even carried it in my pants pocket ... I keep thinking that had something to do with it.  Quite a guess ... but if there must be a cause beyond heredity, that sounded like a good one to grasp at. 
 
Oh well, I am going to finish my green tea .... and get a glass of red wine .... enjo!
PSA 2007 - 2.8
PSA 11/24/2008 - 7.6
Pc Dx 2/11/09; age at Dx 62
RLP 4/20/09
Biopsy -  Invasive moderately differentiated prostatic andenocarconoma; G 3+3=6; PT2C; No evidence of Seminal Vesicle or Extraprostatic Involvement; Margins clear; Tumor identified in sections from prostatic apex.
70 gram prostate.
Immediately continent after removal of cath.
ED - Trimix works well; viagra @ 60%
PSA - 7/31/09 <0.06
PSA - 12/1/09 <0.06
PSA - 3/29/10 <0.06
 
 
 


larch
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2010
Total Posts : 47
   Posted 6/17/2010 6:52 PM (GMT -6)   
Reason I said genetics is that two of my father's brothers and two of my brothers were diagnosed before me.
While the uncles can be explained with the 'everyone over 70 will be diagnosed sooner or later' dismissal, the two brothers were in their 50's.
I am neither a biologist nor a statistician, but ...

And I suspect that if you added the five of us up, you might get to one average man's use of cell phones.

Not saying nobody has had electronics fry the genes, just saying that if you have a father or father's brothers or your brothers with diagnosed PCa, then ignore the ACS and get you PSA tested, because for some of us, genetics/heredity is very much in play.

RCS
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 1247
   Posted 6/18/2010 6:17 AM (GMT -6)   
Larch,
 
I understand what you are saying.  With a family history of PC I am sure you can look at genetics as causitive. 
 
Thanks for the input on the cell phones.
 
I have no family history of PC so I look for a cause.  This may be a bit misleading .... on the male side I currently have lived longer than my father, gradfather, great grand father, etc .... they died young from heart ailments..... so maybe the did have the PC gene and died of a heart attack before the gene manifested.  Guess I'll never know. I've spent the past 15 years wrestling with crappy colesterol numbers (genetic) and then discover PC.  Its funny how when you think you have it all figured out ....
 
Anyhow, time for some morning green tea and then down to business.
PSA 2007 - 2.8
PSA 11/24/2008 - 7.6
Pc Dx 2/11/09; age at Dx 62
RLP 4/20/09
Biopsy -  Invasive moderately differentiated prostatic andenocarconoma; G 3+3=6; PT2C; No evidence of Seminal Vesicle or Extraprostatic Involvement; Margins clear; Tumor identified in sections from prostatic apex.
70 gram prostate.
Immediately continent after removal of cath.
ED - Trimix works well; viagra @ 60%
PSA - 7/31/09 <0.06
PSA - 12/1/09 <0.06
PSA - 3/29/10 <0.06
 
 
 


English Alf
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 2215
   Posted 6/18/2010 7:07 AM (GMT -6)   
Oh well can't win them all. I just made myself a cup of tea and put a bottle of red wine on the table for for dinner and then phoned a friend to chat as my wife had said she'd been asking how I was what with my gleason 7 and BCR.

However as with all these things maybe the red wine and tea is the reason I was not a Gleason 9.

I think it has to be green tea and not blended tea too, as green tea is made with fresh leaves that have simply been scolded and dried hence they are still green, whereas black tea is made with leaves that sort of get fermented. Unlike camomille tea I quite liike the taste of green tea.

The trouble is that I bet it won't be long before some other study comes along and says it's bad for you in some other way For instance yesterday, as a result of a comment in another thread, I was searching the web for something about the role of mast**b*tion in improving blood supply to the penis and all I could find were two types of articles, the one about the fact that mast**b*tion causes prostate cancer and the other that it helps prevents it.

As for cell phones I have half a dozen phone masts within a couple of hundred yards of my appaertemnt: one about fifty feet from my bed!

Alfred
Age at Dx 48 No Family history of Prostate Cancer
Married 25 years, and I cannot thank my wife enough for her support.
April 2009: PSA 8.6 DRE: negative. Tumour in 2 out of 12 cores. Gleason 3+3.
RALP (nerve-sparing) at AVL-NKI Hospital Amsterdam on 29th July 2009. Stay 1 night.
Partial erections on while catheter still in. Catheter out on 6th Aug 2009.
Dry at night after catheter came out
Post-op Gleason 3+4. Tumour mainly in left near neck of bladder.
Left Seminal Vesicle invaded, (=T3b!)
no perineraul invasion, no vascular invasion. clear margins,
Erection 100% on 15th Aug 2009, but lots of leaking of urine
Stopped wearing pads on 21st Sept 2009
Pre-op style intercourse on 24th Oct 2009 !! No use of tablets, jabs, VED etc. but...
Nov 17th 2009 PSA = 0.1
Can still get erections okay, and almost no leaking of urine, but since December 2009 I don't have orgasms, instead I just have intense pain in place where prostate used to be.
Mar 17th 2010 PSA = 0.4!!! referred to radiation therapist
April 13th 2010 CT scan.
April 28th 2010 Started Radiation Therapy (66Gy - 33 sessions)
June 11th 2010 finished RT - main side effect tiredness, but also the occasional small leak


Cajun Jeff
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 4106
   Posted 10/11/2010 9:21 AM (GMT -6)   
My Dad and Grandfather never had a cell phone in their posession and still got PCa. I must say that I do like the idea of Red Wine. It is also good for the heart. Lets have a glass tonight!

Cajun Jeff
9/08 PSA 5.4 referred to Urologist
9/08 Biopsy: GS 3+4=7 1 positive core in 12 1% cancer core
10/08 Nerve-Sparing open radicalSurgery Path Report Downgrade 3+3=6 GS Stage pT2c margins clea
r3 month: PSA <0.1
19th month: PSA <0.1
Only issue at this time is ED

proscapt
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2010
Total Posts : 644
   Posted 10/11/2010 10:40 AM (GMT -6)   
Cell phones emit very little "radiation" when they're not actually in use transmitting. They're mostly "listening". Most of the radiation from cell phones comes when you are transmitting. So if you tend to hold the phone in your hand when you're talking (or texting, or surfing) then the cell phone is very unlikely to do anything to your prostate. OTOH, if you tend to leave the cell phone in your pants pocket while chatting on your blue tooth earpiece, then your prostate is close to the "radiation". I put "radiation" in quotes since what cell phones radiate is totally different from the kind of radiation used in RT. It's more like radio or TV waves or microwaves.

Sephie
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2008
Total Posts : 1804
   Posted 10/12/2010 5:28 AM (GMT -6)   
Avoiding cancer: I sometimes think that a cure for cancer will never be found (or announced) because there is simply too much money to be made in research. The reality with cancer is that there are certainly things you can do to lessen your chances of contracting a particular type of cancer but genetics plays a significant role.

A few cases in point: a good friend of mine (a woman) has taken more vitamin supplements than anyone I know. For years, she followed a mostly vegetarian diet, eating only fish and chicken, lots of fruits and veges, and following the advice of Dr. Weill and Dr. Ornish for years. She had a quadruple heart bypass about 10 years ago, followed a couple of years later by lung surgery to remove a carcinoid tumor. One year ago, she was diagnosed with early stage uterine cancer and had a hysterectomy. Doesn't smoke or drink, never used drugs, paid out a small fortune for high end vitamins and other supplements, practices yoga each day and annually visits with her guru...yet she was still diagnosed with two totally different types of cancer and blocked arteries. Needless to say, she was very disappointed to learn that her lifestyle choices did not preclude her from serious illness.

Had another girlfriend who was diagnosed with breast cancer at the ripe old age of 36. Exercised everyday, drank red wine every night, watched her diet and weight like a hawk. Went through surgery and chemo only to have the BC come back in her lungs. Sadly she did not survive her disease.

Red wine, green tea, vitamin D3 all have their place in a healthy lifestyle but are not magic potions.

English Alf
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 2215
   Posted 10/12/2010 6:54 AM (GMT -6)   
Some people get cancer regardless of what they do, and some people get cancer regardless of what they don't do.
Two people exposed to the same risks don't both suffer the same consequences.

I think your genes have a bigger say in your health, and in all health matters not just cancer.

I think a load of $%^^&% can get said about cell phones:
If cell phones caused brain cancer because you hold them next to your ear then they should also cause skin cancers of the face and ear plus bone cancer in the skull and eye cancer and maybe tongue and throat cancer, plus skin and bone cancer in the hand and fingers of course. And if you put them in a breast pocket to go hands free then they should be causing breast cancer, lung cancer, maybe oesophageal cancer, liver cancer, stomach cancer (depending on where the pocket is), plus and skin cancers on the chest. And if you put them in your trouser/pants pockets to go hands free then they should cause, bone cancer in the pelvis and hip, bladder cancer, colon cancer, rectal cancer, prostate cancer, testicular cancer and penis cancer (plus ovarian and uterine and cervical cancer) etc etc.
I think the better observation might be that people whom use cell phones get cancer. Just the same as people who use pencils get cancer.

Presumably relatives of mine in the 19th century were had cancer blamed it on those pesky steam trains and telegraph offices and gas street lighting.

We're not immortal, something is going to get all of us some day.

It's probably better not to drink too much red wine and thus look after your liver than to drink too much in the hope that it will stop you getting cancer.

Alf

clocknut
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2010
Total Posts : 2667
   Posted 10/12/2010 8:31 AM (GMT -6)   
I predict it's only a matter of time until we hear about the dangers of laptops with wi-fi sitting near or on our groin areas as a cause of prostate or other cancers. In my own case, was it the housepainting I did way back in college and the dipping of hands and wrists into gasoline and kerosene when cleaning brushes? Was it the plant down the street that manufactures athletic mats and emits acetone into the atmosphere? Was it the ham radio hobby my brother and I shared when we were young teens and all the RF radiation produced by those 1950-era transmitters? Was it the agent orange type chemicals in the weed and feed I've applied to the lawn? Was it all the milk we drank and continue to drink because Dad was a milkman and we all developed a love for milk and dairy products? Or was it just fate and heredity? I think it was probably the latter.

NEIrish
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2010
Total Posts : 245
   Posted 10/12/2010 9:34 AM (GMT -6)   
Of course there is a link between what our bodies have been exposed to and subsequent illness! Those who were exposed to certain chemicals (and it's nearly always the man-made products that are the causative agent) at some point in their lives have added cumulative weight to the immune system's burden to heal the damages. Women who took the synthetic estrogen DES have a greater risk of their DAUGHTERS diagnosed with cervical or uterine cancer. People exposed to asbestos 20 to 50 yrs. earlier can develop mesothelioma. Our country banned the use of chlordane for bug eradication because of it's ability of to cause some cancers and other health problems (btw, some people are illegally bringing it back to the US from So. Am. to fight the current proliferation of bedbugs). The women who eat right, exercise etc. may very well have been exposed to additives in their milk or vegetable supplies long before they reached adulthood and can end up with breast cancer. "Better living through chemistry?" Sometimes. And sometimes the flip side isn't so great. You can eat right and exercise because you know you feel better and overwhelming evidence says you'll live longer. Genetic pre-disposition is one thing, lifestyle and cumulative exposure another. You do the best you can with what you've been dealt, right?
Husband 60yrs., no symptms: PSA 10/04 2.73, 12/06 3.64, 5/09 3.9, 10/09 4.6, 1/10 5.0w/ free PSA 24
6 core biop 4/1/10 path rept: rt mid: adnocarc. G=3+3, 5% of core; R apx v. susp. minute ca, R base bnign w/ mod. atrophy, L side atrphy only; 2nd opnion JH confrmd
MRI - 15mm nodule
BiLatRP surg 7/6/10, path: T2c, nodes, sem.ves, extra caps. neg., adenoc both sides G=3+3 cntinent, Viagr-8/27 ED

mr bill
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2010
Total Posts : 688
   Posted 10/12/2010 10:02 AM (GMT -6)   
My wife mentioned, long before it became popular, that microwave cooking in plastic or with saran wrap, teflon coating on cookware, cell phones, heat from laptop, fresh blacktop or on hot day, high tension electric transmission lines,  etc., and the list goes on,  are not good things.  It is getting to the point, and rightfully so, that you have to be careful in the food store.   Usually she is proven correct.
 
 Sorry, I just had to say that.   Just my 2 cents.

  I will get off my soapbox now.

geezer99
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 990
   Posted 10/12/2010 1:52 PM (GMT -6)   
A very sensible article. I particularly liked:
"Weissman noted that even if future studies do not show that green tea and red wine are as effective as many people hope they will be, knowing why their polyphenols have the potential to stop prostate cancer could result in the development of drugs that could significantly improve treatment the disease"

By the way, I am two years behind on my green tea but I make up for it by being ten years ahead on the red wine!

BuiDoi
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2010
Total Posts : 234
   Posted 10/12/2010 3:33 PM (GMT -6)   

<As one with well above average lifetime consumption of both red wine and blended tea, me and my Gleason 7 can attest that genetics trumps red wine and green tea.>

<In moderation, he said that “all signs show that red wine and green tea may be ranked among the most potent ‘health foods’ we know.”>

Can I preface all by saying that I AM a believer, as I have seen what can be done.   I too agree with the Genetic Thump, as I was taking such materials and developed PC. 

Given the 'assurance' that it took years for MY PC to develop, then I can suggest that as I only started taking the stuff 6 mths before DX, then it likely had minimal impact.  Whilst I increased dosage to a therapeutic dose for a few months, and did get the PSA to start to fall, I used discression and had the operation , but continue with OPC treatment, in the hope of defying any Mets.


The issue is the amount that is being taken..  To enjoy the occasional glass of wine and tea is really not enough, and whilst good and enjoyable,  the only way to get 'therapeutic doses' is to take supplements.  Concentrates of those beneficial substances.

As I have reported elsewhere, we take OPC  (OPCXtra to be precise), and it contains those same Polyphenols and OPC's and Antioxidants, but from various origins - being  Green Tea, Bilberry, Grape-Skin, Grape-Seed, Mediterranean Pine, and more..   A daily dose is 1ts, and for some action, it's increased to 2 and more...  I was taking 6 a day, as is my frined who is causing (mobile-phone) cancer (brain cancer) to shrink.

There is a tremendous amount of scientific research into the subject and the general trend is to declare that  OPC's, Resveratrol's, Anti-Oxidants  are the "Fountain of youth",  "The Holy Grail" cure for all that ails us.

Just open your minds and GOOGLE and search !

Like this one..

Oxygen Radical Absorbance Capacity (ORAC) of Selected Foods – 2007
    Introduction
The development of many chronic and degenerative diseases, such as cancer (1), heart
disease (5), and neuronal degeneration such as Alzheimer’s (4) and Parkinson’s disease
(9) has been theorized to be caused, in part, by oxidative stress.
Oxidative stress has also
been implicated in the process of aging (2). I
t is known that reactive oxygen species can
damage biological molecules such as proteins, lipids, and DNA.
While the human body
has developed a number of systems to eliminate free radicals from the body, it is not
100% efficient (20).

http://www.ars.usda.gov/SP2UserFiles/Place/12354500/Data/ORAC/ORAC_R2.pdf

 and

http://www.longwoodherbal.org/opcs/opcs.pdf

There was a big item on Today Tonight about the BEAUTY benefits
of
the product  ANTHOGENOL and Anti-Aging.

http://au.todaytonight.yahoo.com/article/7023477/none/new-face-anti-ageing

ANTHOGENOL  was described as one of the MOST-POWERFUL  anti-oxidant OPC's

http://www.addslife.com.au/

The OPC said to be used  in ANTHOGENOL, is  "Vitis vinifera dry seed extract " (Grape-Seed)

http://www.addslife.com.au/opcs.html
.


Nov 2009 = First-PSA 5.3 @ 60yo - Asymptomatic - DRE-Non-Palpable
Jan-'10 = TRUS Bx DX - AdenoCar T1c - GS(3+3)=6 , 5 & 45% max., L-MidZone
May-'10 = RRP-Nrv-Spare
Post Op. GS(3+4)=7, 1.1cm3, Pos Margins, EPE (focal) Lateral Left
Margin-Involvement (extensive) Posterior , Grade3 x 8mm
+8week PSA<0.01, ED-85%, Incont-30%
+16W PSA<0.01, ED -85%, Cont -5%
+17W First 'DRY' day. ED -90%

Post Edited (BuiDoi) : 10/12/2010 4:24:40 PM (GMT-6)


clocknut
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2010
Total Posts : 2667
   Posted 10/12/2010 6:36 PM (GMT -6)   
I have six gallons of red wine fermenting in our kitchen right now. It should be drinkable by Christmas. Do you think that's enough to keep my PSA at zero for a while? I'll drink it in moderation, of course.
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