New Research Findings

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Ed C. (Old67)
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2009
Total Posts : 2461
   Posted 6/29/2010 5:10 PM (GMT -6)   
I received this from the Prostate foundation:

http://www.pcf.org/site/c.leJRIROrEpH/b.6113915/k.EA7D/Understanding_the_24_Types_of_Prostate_Cancer.htm?msource=se10npwsj&auid=6558792
Age: 67 at Dx on 12/30/08
PSA 9/05 1.15; 8/06 1.45; 12/07 2.41; 8/08 3.9; 11/08 3.5 free PSA 11%
2 cores out of 12 were positive Gleason (4+4) and (4+5)
Negative CT scan and bone scan done on 1/16
Robotic surgery performed 2/9/09 Dr Fagin, Austin TX
Prostate weighed 57 grams size:5.2 x 5.0 x 4.9 cm
Posterior lateral lesions measuring 1.5 x 1.4 x 1.0 cm showing focal capsular penetration over a distance of 3mm in circumference.
Prostatic adenocarciroma accounts for approx. 10-20% of the hemisphere.
Gleason 4+4
both nerve bundles removed,
pT3a Nx Mx, Negative margins
seminal vesicles clean, lymph nodes: not dissected
continent after 5 months
2 months PSA test 4/7/09 result <0.1
5 months PSA test 7/9/09 result <0.1
8 months PSA test 10/9/09 result <0.1
11 months PSA test 1/21/10 result 0.004
14 months PSA test 4/19/10 result 0.005


geezer99
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 990
   Posted 6/29/2010 5:41 PM (GMT -6)   
OK so now the Wall Street Journal counts as a scholarly scientific journal.

All sane people will please run screaming from the room
Age at diagnosis 66, PSA 5.5
Biopsy 12/08 12 cores, 8 positive
Gleason 3+4=7
CAT scan, Bone scan 1/09 both negative.

Robotic surgery 03/03/09 Catheter Out 03/08/09
Pathology: Lymph nodes & Seminal vesicles negative
Margins positive, Capsular penetration extensive Gleason 4+3=7
6 weeks: 1 pad/day, 1 pad/night -- mostly dry at night.
10 weeks: no pad at night -- slight leakage day/1 pad.
3 mo. PSA 0.0 - now light pads
6 mo. PSA 0.00 -- 1 light pad/day
9 mo. PSA 0.00 -- 1 light pad/day ED remains
12 mo. PSA 0.00 -- still one light pad and ED


zufus
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 3149
   Posted 6/29/2010 6:15 PM (GMT -6)   
Good stuff Ed the information comes from Prostate Cancer Foundation and look at the hospitals behind the studies, this is not the Wall Street Urinal stuff. I would not pee on this information, Dr. Bostwick et al identified 18 variant types of PCa strains a few years back, maybe now it is 24 found, as we are talking about DNA and genes, some of these variants already known about can be identified by Ploidy analysis which only a few leading pathologist offer, probably about 4-5 including the guy in Germany (a real expert). This is actually very important information and stay tuned for further informations on such things in the future. They key is manipulation of the genes. Biology is the reason we got PCa in the first place. All kinds of studies and companies are looking into this type of stuff right now, kind of why Provenge shows some promise along these lines, maybe not apples to apples though. Why not look at everything on PCa, make your own assessment of its value as to information or validity.
Always be skeptical and even skeptical of mainstream as to their motives and agendas, too.
Some can pee on this Journal article and others can frame it, it is your choice.


Youth is wasted on the Young-(W.C. Fields)


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25393
   Posted 6/29/2010 6:25 PM (GMT -6)   
Hey, I have been a reader of the WSJ for nearly 30 years, have learned a lot of things through its pages. But to be honest, I wouldn't think of it as a normal source for trusted medical or health related news. The WSJ, it's all about the money, lol. And proud of it.

David in SC
Age: 57, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 7/08 12.3, 9/08 14.5, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 - 7/7 Positive, 40-90% Cancer, Gleason 4+3
Open RP: 11/08, Rht nerves saved, 4 days in hospt, on catheters for 63 days, 5th one out 1/09
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin
Incontinence:  1 Month     ED:  Non issue at any point post surgery, no problem post SRT
Post Surgery  PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, next one:  July
Latest: 7/9 met 2 rad. oncl, 7/9 cath #6 - blockage, 8/9 2nd corr surgery, 8/9 cath #7 out 38 days, 9/9 - met 3rd rad. oncl., mapped  9/9, 10/1 - 3rd corr. surgery - SP cath/hard dialation, 10/5 - 11/27 IMRT SRT 39 sess/72 gys ,cath #8 33 days, Cath #9 35 days, 12/7 - Cath #10 43 days, 1/19 - Corr Surgery #4,  Caths #11 and #12  same time, 2/8-Cath #11 out - 21 days, 3/2- Cath #12 out - 41 days, 3/2- Corr Surgery #5, 3/6 Cath #13 out - 4 days, Cath #14- 27 days, Cath #15 - 26 days, Cath #16 - 31 days, 5/24 put in Cath #17


Ed C. (Old67)
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2009
Total Posts : 2461
   Posted 6/29/2010 6:49 PM (GMT -6)   
David,
The WSJ is simply pointing to information from the Prostate Cancer Foundation. The original source comes from two very reputable research institution. I can't vouch for its accuracy but I sure hope it is true.
Age: 67 at Dx on 12/30/08
PSA 9/05 1.15; 8/06 1.45; 12/07 2.41; 8/08 3.9; 11/08 3.5 free PSA 11%
2 cores out of 12 were positive Gleason (4+4) and (4+5)
Negative CT scan and bone scan done on 1/16
Robotic surgery performed 2/9/09 Dr Fagin, Austin TX
Prostate weighed 57 grams size:5.2 x 5.0 x 4.9 cm
Posterior lateral lesions measuring 1.5 x 1.4 x 1.0 cm showing focal capsular penetration over a distance of 3mm in circumference.
Prostatic adenocarciroma accounts for approx. 10-20% of the hemisphere.
Gleason 4+4
both nerve bundles removed,
pT3a Nx Mx, Negative margins
seminal vesicles clean, lymph nodes: not dissected
continent after 5 months
2 months PSA test 4/7/09 result <0.1
5 months PSA test 7/9/09 result <0.1
8 months PSA test 10/9/09 result <0.1
11 months PSA test 1/21/10 result 0.004
14 months PSA test 4/19/10 result 0.005


Tudpock18
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Sep 2008
Total Posts : 4278
   Posted 6/29/2010 9:41 PM (GMT -6)   

Ed, actually I just read the story in my hard copy of the WSJ...thanks for posting here for others to see.  Hopefully this research will lead to what most of us would like to see, i.e. a way to identify aggressiveness of PCa so as to determine proper treatment rather than just taking a sledge hammer to it.  For those folks not too narrow minded to take the time to read this (rather than just trashing the reporting medium) I think they will find it encouraging.

Tudpock (Jim)


Age 62, Gleason 3 + 4 = 7, T1C, PSA 4.2, 2 of 16 cores cancerous, 27cc
Brachytherapy December 9, 2008.  73 Iodine-125 seeds.  Procedure went great, catheter out before I went home, only minor discomfort.  Regular activities resumed, everything continues to function normally as of 4/10/10.  6 month PSA 1.4 and now 1 year PSA at 1.0.  My docs are "delighted"!

Ed C. (Old67)
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2009
Total Posts : 2461
   Posted 6/30/2010 9:09 AM (GMT -6)   
Thanks Jim. I find this research encouraging. It may not help those of us who are way down on our journey but hopefully it will help others in the future including my 3 sons. The question I have to those who read the article is whether aggressiveness is related to Gleason score or whether it is entirely different. In other words, can you have a Gleason 6 that is aggressive?
Age: 67 at Dx on 12/30/08
PSA 9/05 1.15; 8/06 1.45; 12/07 2.41; 8/08 3.9; 11/08 3.5 free PSA 11%
2 cores out of 12 were positive Gleason (4+4) and (4+5)
Negative CT scan and bone scan done on 1/16
Robotic surgery performed 2/9/09 Dr Fagin, Austin TX
Prostate weighed 57 grams size:5.2 x 5.0 x 4.9 cm
Posterior lateral lesions measuring 1.5 x 1.4 x 1.0 cm showing focal capsular penetration over a distance of 3mm in circumference.
Prostatic adenocarciroma accounts for approx. 10-20% of the hemisphere.
Gleason 4+4
both nerve bundles removed,
pT3a Nx Mx, Negative margins
seminal vesicles clean, lymph nodes: not dissected
continent after 5 months
2 months PSA test 4/7/09 result <0.1
5 months PSA test 7/9/09 result <0.1
8 months PSA test 10/9/09 result <0.1
11 months PSA test 1/21/10 result 0.004
14 months PSA test 4/19/10 result 0.005


Sleepless09
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 1267
   Posted 6/30/2010 9:40 AM (GMT -6)   
Ed, thanks for sharing this. I know some here follow "the literature" but for those of us who don't read the scientific reports, a WSJ or NYT article is how we learn --- and reading posts from our brothers here too, of course.

Sheldon AKA Sleepless
Age 67 in Apil '09 at news of 4 of 12 cores positive T2B and Gleason 3 + 3 and 5% to 25% PSA 1.5
Re-read of slides in June said Gleason 3 + 4 same four cores 5% to 15%
June 29 daVinci prostatectomy, Dr. Eric Estey, at Royal Alexandra Hospital Edmonton one night stay
From "knock out" to wake up in recovery less than two hours.  Actual surgery 70 minutes
Flew home to Winnipeg on July 3 after 5 nights in Ramada Inn  ---  perfect recovery spot!
Catheter out July 9
Final pathology is 3 + 4 Gleason 7, clear margins, clear nodes, T2C, sugeron says report is "excellent"
 
Oct 1st 09 -- dry at night, during day some stress issues.
Oct 31st padless 24/7 
 
First post op PSA Sept 09  less than 0.02
PSA on Oct 23 test again less than 0.02
PSA on Jan 8 less than 0.02
PSA on April 9 less than 0.02 
 
  


John T
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 4269
   Posted 6/30/2010 11:10 AM (GMT -6)   
It is interesting to note that many oncologists that have been treating patients for years have been saying that there are many types of PC ranging from indolant to extremenly agressive varients and everything in bewtween, and the treatment has to be tailered to the cancer's biology. Over the years we have a one size fits all treatment protocol, either surgery or radiation with follow up treatments when they don't work. Hopefully in the future we can tailer treatments to the individule's specific situation. This will be the gold standard, not the barbaric way we are treating pc today.
JohnT

64 years old.

PSA rising for 10 years to 40, free psa 10-15. Had 5 urologists, 12 biopsies and MRIS all neg. Doctors DXed BPH and continue to get biopsies yearly. 13th biopsy positive in 10-08, 2 cores of 25, G6 less than 5%. Scheduled for surgery as recommended by Urological Oncologist.

2nd Opinion from Dr Sholtz, a Prostate Oncologist, said DX wrong, pathology shows indolant cancer, but psa history indicates large cancer or metastasis. Futher tests and Color Doppler confirmed large transition zone tumor that 13 biopsies and MRIS missed. G7, 4+3, approx 16mmX18mm.

Combidex MRI in Holland eliminated lymphnode mets. Casodex and Proscar reduced psa to 0.6 and prostate from 60mm to 32mm. Changed diet, no meat and dairy. All staging tests indicate that tumor is local and non agressive. (PAP, PCA3, MRIS, Color Doppler, Combidex, tumor reaction to diet and Casodex, and tumor location in transition zone). Surgery a poor option because tumor is located next to the urethea and positive margin is very likely; permanent incontenance is also high probability with surgery.

Seed implants on 5-19-09, 3 hours door to door, no pain, minor side affects are frequency and urgency; very controlable with Flowmax and lasted 4 weeks. Daily activities resumed day after implants with no restrictions. Gold markers implanted with seeds to guide IMRT.

25 treatments of IMRT 6 weeks after seed implants. No side affects at all.

PSA at end of treatment 0.02 mostly the result of Casodex. When I stop Casodex next week expect PSA to rise. Next PSA in November. Treatments and side affects have greatly exceeded my expectations. Glad to have this 11 year journey finally conclude.

JohnT

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