Active Surveillance, Diet, Supplements, Information...

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Jim is sick
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2010
Total Posts : 118
   Posted 7/7/2010 12:10 PM (GMT -6)   
Hey there!
 
If there is interest I would like to start a thread on how to best do Active Surveillance as it relates to dietary changes, dietary supplements, and general information. I am interested in discussing in great detail these dietary changes to learn the best choices.
 
Please understand this thread is not intended to discuss if Active Surveillance is a worthwhile treatment option. I am not at all interested in discussing that sort of thing. So if you post here, you accept that dietary changes when doing AS is a good idea.
 
The question that sparked this thread is this. I have read of a morning drink in an older thread of mine. It included flax seed. I read that this flax seed can prevent the absorption of other meds into the blood stream. Anyone know if this is a valid concern and if it is, how to deal with it? For now we are leaving it out.
 
Would anyone doing AS that includes dietary supplements care to share your regimen?
 
I have lost 20 lbs relatively quickly, about a month on the diet. With no meat, no dairy diets the biggest problem is with getting enough protein.
 
Thanks, Jim
48, Caucasian, 5' 8", 200lbs, 190lbs, general good health.
PSA: 8-7-09 3.22, 11-13-09 4.25.
Biopsy: 32 cores. 3 cores reveal PCa, 10%, Gleason 3+3=6, T1C.
Diagnosed: 2-12-10.
Current Treatment: Active Surveillance, next appointment Oct. 2010. No meat, no dairy, lots of fruits and vegetables.
Preferred Treatment: I just want someone to harvest my immune cells, genetically engineer them to fight my prostate cancer, and then infuse them back into my body...


Steve n Dallas
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2008
Total Posts : 4849
   Posted 7/7/2010 1:05 PM (GMT -6)   

I don't think a diet for an AS person would be any different then any other diet. There's good food and bad food that effect people in both catagories.

Don't forget to do a lot of exercising - aka walking for 30 minutes a day.


Age 55   - 5'11"   215lbs
Overall Heath Condition - Good
PSA - July 2007 & Jan 2008 -> 1.3
Biopsy - 03/04/08 -> Gleason 6 
06/25/08 - Da Vinci robotic laparoscopy
05/14/09  - 4th Quarter PSA -> less then .01
11/20/09 - 18 Month PSA -> less then .01
05/18/10 - 24 Month PSA -> less then .01
Surgeon - Keith A. Waguespack, M.D.


Kongo
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2010
Total Posts : 36
   Posted 7/7/2010 2:05 PM (GMT -6)   

If you haven't done it already, you may wish to add soy milk products as a protein source.  It has about the same amount of protein as cow's milk.  Like you, I eliminated all dairy and red meat from my diet.  I do eat poultry as a source of protein too.  Like you, I also lost about 15 pounds rather quickly.  Another plus is that my PSA dropped from 4.3 at diagnosis to 2.8 just before treatment.  I think you're on the right tack.

Best


============================
Age:  59
Dx:  March 2010
PSA @ Dx:  4.3 (Latest PSA = 2.8 after elimination of dairy)
Gleason:  3+3=6 (confirmed by second pathologist)
Biopsy:  1 of 12 cores contained adenocarcinoma at 15% involvement and no evidence of perineural invasion
DRE: Normal
Stage:  T1c
Bone scan and chest x-rays:  Negative
Prostate Volume: 47 cc
PSA Velocity:  0.19 ng/ml/yr
PSA Density:  0.092 ng/ml/ccm
PSA Doubling Time:  > 10 Years
Treatment Decision:  CyberKnife radiation treatment in June 2010
 
 
 


Jim is sick
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2010
Total Posts : 118
   Posted 7/7/2010 3:00 PM (GMT -6)   
Steve n Dallas said...

I don't think a diet for an AS person would be any different then any other diet. There's good food and bad food that effect people in both catagories.

Don't forget to do a lot of exercising - aka walking for 30 minutes a day.


For food for the most part yes, and it's relatively easy to get heart healthy food ideas from lots of places. But it's the dietary supplements that I really want to understand better. I hear calcium is bad for PCa.
48, Caucasian, 5' 8", 200lbs, 190lbs, general good health.
PSA: 8-7-09 3.22, 11-13-09 4.25.
Biopsy: 32 cores. 3 cores reveal PCa, 10%, Gleason 3+3=6, T1C.
Diagnosed: 2-12-10.
Current Treatment: Active Surveillance, next appointment Oct. 2010. No meat, no dairy, lots of fruits and vegetables.
Preferred Treatment: I just want someone to harvest my immune cells, genetically engineer them to fight my prostate cancer, and then infuse them back into my body...


John T
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Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 4268
   Posted 7/7/2010 3:17 PM (GMT -6)   
The standard supplements for PC are Pomegranite extract, lycopene, Vit D, and green tea. Virtually all doctors specializing in PC recommend these; there are many others that there is a lot of disagreement on. Animal protien should be about 5% of calories for the optimum.
Be advised that ther is no controlled study that shows diet has an effect on PC, but most oncologists specializing in PC think it has a major effect.
JT

64 years old.

PSA rising for 10 years to 40, free psa 10-15. Had 5 urologists, 12 biopsies and MRIS all neg. Doctors DXed BPH and continue to get biopsies yearly. 13th biopsy positive in 10-08, 2 cores of 25, G6 less than 5%. Scheduled for surgery as recommended by Urological Oncologist.

2nd Opinion from Dr Sholtz, a Prostate Oncologist, said DX wrong, pathology shows indolant cancer, but psa history indicates large cancer or metastasis. Futher tests and Color Doppler confirmed large transition zone tumor that 13 biopsies and MRIS missed. G7, 4+3, approx 16mmX18mm.

Combidex MRI in Holland eliminated lymphnode mets. Casodex and Proscar reduced psa to 0.6 and prostate from 60mm to 32mm. Changed diet, no meat and dairy. All staging tests indicate that tumor is local and non agressive. (PAP, PCA3, MRIS, Color Doppler, Combidex, tumor reaction to diet and Casodex, and tumor location in transition zone). Surgery a poor option because tumor is located next to the urethea and positive margin is very likely; permanent incontenance is also high probability with surgery.

Seed implants on 5-19-09, 3 hours door to door, no pain, minor side affects are frequency and urgency; very controlable with Flowmax and lasted 4 weeks. Daily activities resumed day after implants with no restrictions. Gold markers implanted with seeds to guide IMRT.

25 treatments of IMRT 6 weeks after seed implants. No side affects at all.

PSA at end of treatment 0.02 mostly the result of Casodex. When I stop Casodex next week expect PSA to rise. Next PSA in November. Treatments and side affects have greatly exceeded my expectations. Glad to have this 11 year journey finally conclude.

JohnT


Fairwind
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2010
Total Posts : 3892
   Posted 7/7/2010 4:26 PM (GMT -6)   
I'm taking Selenium and IP-6 (Inositol Hexaphoshate), Raspberries, Strawberries, fish, green tea, Pomegranite to slow things down until my surgery (or radiation)...

But as a Medical Oncologist told me, "That stuff is great Bob, but you should have started taking it 30 years ago..."
Age today: 68. Married, 6', 215 pounds, active, no health issues.
PSA at age 55: 3.5, DRE negative. Advice, "Keep an eye on it".
PSA at age 58: 4.5
PSA at age 61: 5.2
PSA at age 64: 7.5, DRE "Abnormal"
PSA at age 65: 8.5, DRE " normal", biopsy, 12 core, negative...
PSA at age 66 9.0 DRE "normal", BPH, Finesteride. (Proscar)
PSA at age 67 4.5 DRE "normal" second biopsy, negative.
PSA at age 67.5 5.6, DRE "normal" U-doc worried..
PSA at age 68, 7.0, third biopsy positive for cancer in 4 cores, 3 cores Gleason 6, one core Gleason 9. Finesteride discontinued, still no urinary symptoms, never had any..From age 55 to 65 I had no health insurance.

I have a date with the robo surgeon on Sept 3 but I'm keeping my options open. A "top" radiation oncologist here in Denver, equipped with the latest IMRT/IGRT/RapidArc machine says he can do better by me..


North Alabama
New Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 18
   Posted 7/7/2010 5:04 PM (GMT -6)   

There are a lot of unknowns about supplements because there are no measurement or quality standards or definitive studies. I've seen studies that show taking some vitamin supplements that at one time were thought to be good for you are now believed to increase the risk of some cancers.  I think you can't go wrong with low fat and high fiber for good overall health.  Here is one example of a study that contradicts previous beliefs.  So what can you really believe ?

Do a google search on keywords 

selenium supplement prostate cancer

and look at the different study results.  One study says it can increase prostate cancer progression.


Post Edited (North Alabama) : 7/7/2010 4:15:13 PM (GMT-6)


Hope and Prayer
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2010
Total Posts : 59
   Posted 7/8/2010 12:00 AM (GMT -6)   
Jim, I understand your concern and contradictions in what is right or wrong. I've read that diary and red meat is not good so BF took that out of his diet. Then I read the Budwig diet about flaxseed with cottage cheese. What to believe!!! Then we read about Dr. Myers diet and what supplements he was taking. That is the new diet and supplement regime now. Next was visit with nutritionist at Sloan who took away half of the supplements BF was taking. One can go crazy trying to guess what to do. I do believe in the Mediterrean diet of mostly fish and vegetables. I believe in Lycopene, Vit D and pomegranate, blueberries and raspberries. It is up to the individual and what they think works best for them. I am very interested in this thread and believe that diet plays a big role. I hope you continue to post so that we can compare diet and supplements.
Boyfriend dx at age 44 with Stage 4 PC on 11/09. Gleason 4+5, 11 of 12 cores +; PSA 51.34
DaVinci surgery on 12/09

Gleason 4+5 confirmed. Lymph and vesicle invasion, right nerves spared.
pT3c N1 Mx
HT: Casedox and Lupron started 1/10

PSA 1/13/10 23.15 2/8/10 .37 3/18/10 <.05 5/14/10 <.02

Bone metastasis

Radiation: 42 sessions ending 6/10


Franchot
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2009
Total Posts : 131
   Posted 7/8/2010 3:54 AM (GMT -6)   
These are the vitamins and dosage that Dr. Scholtz recommends for men with prostate cancer:

From his literature:

"Fish oil--2000 mg daily
Calcium citrate--1000 mg at night
Vitamin D-- 2000 units daily
Lycopene--10-30 mg daily
Vitamin C--500 mg daily

Optional supplements:

Curcumin--900-1800 mg daily
Green Tea--drink tea or take capsules 500-800 mg daily
Modified citrus pectin-- 5-15 grams daily
Pomegranate extra
Co-Enzyme Q-10-- 200 mg daily (if taking a statin drug)

Vitamins and Minerals to avoid unless a clear-cut deficiency is documented:

Multivitamins, folic acid, iron, copper, and zinc"

(He also suggests that processed sugar should be avoided.)

I'm on active surveillance and I've been taking most of these for the last year and my PSA has dropped. I also don't drink dairy or eat meat. In the long run will it make any difference? I guess only time will tell or maybe some serious studies will be done.
Age: 54 6' 0" Weight: 176 Caucasian

Rising PSA over the last six years (from when I started being tested) from 3.9 to 5.2 to 4.6 to 4.5 to 4.9 to 3.9.

Free PSA: .71 % Free PSA: 18.2%

DX with PC in January 2009 after biopsy. Bone scan--negative

Consulted Cedars-Sinai Beverly Hills urologist--recommended surgery
Consulted Cedars-Sinai Beverly Hills radiologist--recommended IMRT
Consulted San Diego Cyber-Blade doctor--recommended treatments
Consulted Long Beach radiologist--recommended IGRT
Consulted Loma Linda radiologist--recommended Hypo-fractionated Proton treatments

Insurance approved any treatment I wanted.

Consulted Marnia del Rey urologist Dr. Scholz.
Dr. Scholz referred me to Dr. Bahn for a Color Doppler test.
Scholz and Bahn recommended Active Surveillance, some diet changes, and steady exercise.

I am currently on Active Surveillance.

Post Edited (Franchot) : 7/8/2010 3:00:18 AM (GMT-6)


Jim is sick
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2010
Total Posts : 118
   Posted 7/8/2010 12:01 PM (GMT -6)   
Kongo,
I'm incorporating more soy based protein as we find things that we like to eat. I just bought some soy milk, but haven't gotten up the nerve to taste it yet. ;)

JohnT,
5% protein from animal is a lot more achievable than 0%. :) Thanks for the info!

Fairwind,
I appreciate the comment about should have started this 30 years ago. That's why I'm telling my 21 year old son to change his habits now.

North Alabama,
I know what you mean about the quality. When I'm ready to add supplements I know I will get them from Life Extension. I have no affiliation with them except a friend of mine bought a subscription for me for their book and magazines. They really do help support cancer research (edit: by providing funding), something I have never seen from any other supplement provider. Dr. Strum is on their board by the way.

Hope ad a Prayer,
I'm considering holding off on supplements until after my next PSA test in October. The logic being, lets see what diet alone did. Still thinking about it. I know I will avoid saw palmetto because I believe it does not effect anything but falsely lowering the PSA.

As for comparing diets sure, I'm in. However it's going to have to wait. I have used up my lunch hour. :P

Thanks everyone!


48, Caucasian, 5' 8", 200lbs, 190lbs, general good health.
PSA: 8-7-09 3.22, 11-13-09 4.25.
Biopsy: 32 cores. 3 cores reveal PCa, 10%, Gleason 3+3=6, T1C.
Diagnosed: 2-12-10.
Current Treatment: Active Surveillance, next appointment Oct. 2010. No meat, no dairy, lots of fruits and vegetables.
Preferred Treatment: I just want someone to harvest my immune cells, genetically engineer them to fight my prostate cancer, and then infuse them back into my body...

Post Edited (Jim is sick) : 7/9/2010 9:09:29 AM (GMT-6)


Franchot
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2009
Total Posts : 131
   Posted 7/8/2010 5:23 PM (GMT -6)   
Jim,

There is Soy Milk and there is Soy "Chalk" as I like to call it. Through my experience of trying different brands, I ended up buying Silk brand because of the taste and texture. Silk Vanilla and Silk Very Vanilla (though higher in sugar) are very good, but I finally settled on Silk Heart and Light Silk Vanilla due to lower calories.

Silk is a national brand, but there are also local brands around here which are very good also.
Age: 54 6' 0" Weight: 176 Caucasian

Rising PSA over the last six years (from when I started being tested) from 3.9 to 5.2 to 4.6 to 4.5 to 4.9 to 3.9.

Free PSA: .71 % Free PSA: 18.2%

DX with PC in January 2009 after biopsy. Bone scan--negative

Consulted Cedars-Sinai Beverly Hills urologist--recommended surgery
Consulted Cedars-Sinai Beverly Hills radiologist--recommended IMRT
Consulted San Diego Cyber-Blade doctor--recommended treatments
Consulted Long Beach radiologist--recommended IGRT
Consulted Loma Linda radiologist--recommended Hypo-fractionated Proton treatments

Insurance approved any treatment I wanted.

Consulted Marnia del Rey urologist Dr. Scholz.
Dr. Scholz referred me to Dr. Bahn for a Color Doppler test.
Scholz and Bahn recommended Active Surveillance, some diet changes, and steady exercise.

I am currently on Active Surveillance.


Fairwind
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2010
Total Posts : 3892
   Posted 7/8/2010 6:20 PM (GMT -6)   
Franchot, what was your Gleason score?
Age today: 68. Married, 6', 215 pounds, active, no health issues.
PSA at age 55: 3.5, DRE negative. Advice, "Keep an eye on it".
PSA at age 58: 4.5
PSA at age 61: 5.2
PSA at age 64: 7.5, DRE "Abnormal"
PSA at age 65: 8.5, DRE " normal", biopsy, 12 core, negative...
PSA at age 66 9.0 DRE "normal", BPH, Finesteride. (Proscar)
PSA at age 67 4.5 DRE "normal" second biopsy, negative.
PSA at age 67.5 5.6, DRE "normal" U-doc worried..
PSA at age 68, 7.0, third biopsy positive for cancer in 4 cores, 3 cores Gleason 6, one core Gleason 9. Finesteride discontinued, still no urinary symptoms, never had any..From age 55 to 65 I had no health insurance.

I have a date with the robo surgeon on Sept 3 but I'm keeping my options open. A "top" radiation oncologist here in Denver, equipped with the latest IMRT/IGRT/RapidArc machine says he can do better by me..


Franchot
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2009
Total Posts : 131
   Posted 7/9/2010 2:28 AM (GMT -6)   
Fairwind said...
Franchot, what was your Gleason score?


My Gleason is 3+3=6. T1C.

(I should probably put that in my profile. blush )
Age: 54 6' 0" Weight: 176 Caucasian

Rising PSA over the last six years (from when I started being tested) from 3.9 to 5.2 to 4.6 to 4.5 to 4.9 to 3.9.

Free PSA: .71 % Free PSA: 18.2%

DX with PC in January 2009 after biopsy. Bone scan--negative

Consulted Cedars-Sinai Beverly Hills urologist--recommended surgery
Consulted Cedars-Sinai Beverly Hills radiologist--recommended IMRT
Consulted San Diego Cyber-Blade doctor--recommended treatments
Consulted Long Beach radiologist--recommended IGRT
Consulted Loma Linda radiologist--recommended Hypo-fractionated Proton treatments

Insurance approved any treatment I wanted.

Consulted Marnia del Rey urologist Dr. Scholz.
Dr. Scholz referred me to Dr. Bahn for a Color Doppler test.
Scholz and Bahn recommended Active Surveillance, some diet changes, and steady exercise.

I am currently on Active Surveillance.


Jim is sick
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2010
Total Posts : 118
   Posted 7/9/2010 10:16 AM (GMT -6)   
I was thinking about this last night and I have decided not to wait for the October appointment to start the supplements. I have printed a lot of information and will sit down and make a final decision on my regimen tonight. I can't believe it has taken me like 3 months to decide what to take. I'm doing the best I can. It's difficult running a 2m company and find the time to take care of yourself. I always take care of my family and employees before myself. Anyway I'm looking forward to trying to beat this thing into submission.
48, Caucasian, 5' 8", 200lbs, 190lbs, general good health.
PSA: 8-7-09 3.22, 11-13-09 4.25.
Biopsy: 32 cores. 3 cores reveal PCa, 10%, Gleason 3+3=6, T1C.
Diagnosed: 2-12-10.
Current Treatment: Active Surveillance, next appointment Oct. 2010. No meat, no dairy, lots of fruits and vegetables.
Preferred Treatment: I just want someone to harvest my immune cells, genetically engineer them to fight my prostate cancer, and then infuse them back into my body...


el perro
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2010
Total Posts : 46
   Posted 7/9/2010 3:31 PM (GMT -6)   
Dr Myers has a lot of info on his web site and blogs, prostateforum.com, I think. A recent newsletter describes his "Active Growth Arrest" protocol. It includes many of the supplements and dietary changes mentioned above, plus he also emphasizes exercise and cholesterol control. He also mentions Proscar or Avodart to reduce DHT as part of the protocol. Seems to be pushing the envelope a bit, and probably controversial. I haven't seen "growth arrest" used by anyone else.
Dx 11/2008, Gleason 3+3
Active surveillance for now


Jim is sick
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2010
Total Posts : 118
   Posted 7/12/2010 11:42 AM (GMT -6)   
El perro,

Any way to get this info without paying $7.00 for each of the articles? I'm not sure how to use his site. :(
48, Caucasian, 5' 8", 200lbs, 190lbs, general good health.
PSA: 8-7-09 3.22, 11-13-09 4.25.
Biopsy: 32 cores. 3 cores reveal PCa, 10%, Gleason 3+3=6, T1C.
Diagnosed: 2-12-10.
Current Treatment: Active Surveillance, next appointment Oct. 2010. No meat, no dairy, lots of fruits and vegetables.
Preferred Treatment: I just want someone to harvest my immune cells, genetically engineer them to fight my prostate cancer, and then infuse them back into my body...


el perro
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2010
Total Posts : 46
   Posted 7/12/2010 2:28 PM (GMT -6)   
Jim,
There are a lot of Dr Myers' dos and don'ts in a recent link from zufus - www.prostatecancertopics.com/topic000.pdf
The 3rd or 4th slide in this file shows a lot of his recommendations. There's also a link to Myers' video blogs on various PCa topics at the top of his prostateforum.com site. All the video blogs can be viewed for free. I did buy the $7 newsletter on Active Growth Arrest. It's more of an overview than giving specific dosages, etc. I think the link from zufus probably has more detail than the newsletter.
Dx 11/2008, Gleason 3+3
Active surveillance for now

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