Dr. Meyers weblink on PCa control and do's and don'ts foods, etc.

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zufus
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   Posted 7/8/2010 10:39 AM (GMT -6)   
This is from Snuffy  (Chas.) Meyers a somewhat reknown PCa oncologist, info worth knowing especially for the high risk or hrpca people.  He has literally seen it all with patients over the years, we should be able to gleene something from his words of wisdom. You decide.
 
 
He probably still has a newsletter and website, too.  Not an endorsement herein, but information and something you can read and look over, especially since this info is probably not found at your local docs office.  Some oncologist docs have more controversy about their works than others, this is not unfounded in medical circles.
Youth is wasted on the Young-(W.C. Fields)


el perro
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Date Joined Mar 2010
Total Posts : 46
   Posted 7/9/2010 2:40 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks for the link. A lot more detail on some of his ideas than I've seen elsewhere.
Dx 11/2008, Gleason 3+3
Active surveillance for now


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 7/9/2010 5:08 PM (GMT -6)   
It's a good link and I know that you, and several others have a highly elevated opinion of "Snuffy", but I thought some of his dietary suggestions were screwy and off the chart. When I went through radiation therapy in 2000, I have a radiation oncologist, a medical oncologist, and as part of my physical therapy, even had my own oncology dietician available to me. All 3 of them would have disagreed with much of "Snuffy's" suggestions on the diet side.

Different opinions from different experts, I suppose. All of the doctor's I mentioned from 10 years back, and all 3 of the radiation oncologists I met with late last year, strongly felt that most of the dietary and supplement suggestions are unproven and can be show with many contridicatary studies. My main rad. onclogist felt strongly that the dietary changes is mostly an attempt by the cancer patient to have 'some control' over their destiny once they have been dx with cancer. But they also felt that once the "cow was out of the barn" with cancer, a lifetime of bad eating habits was not going to be remedied by some last minute in life dietary or supplement changes.

Know that won't be the most popular opinion, but that was what was told to me. All agreed across the board, that if all people, not just cancer patients, went for a heart healthy diet, in particular the Mederteranian type diet, it would reduce greatly the number of health issues in general.

We should be teaching our grandchildren or perhaps children too (if yours are still young enough) about the benefits of a lifetime of healthy eating, then, it might have some positive effect.

David in SC

P.S. Still a good article with a great amount of data and info. I believe a person can learn from a number of sources, and glean what they can from each
Age: 57, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 7/08 12.3, 9/08 14.5, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 - 7/7 Positive, 40-90% Cancer, Gleason 4+3
Open RP: 11/08, Rht nerves saved, 4 days in hospt, on catheters for 63 days, 5th one out 1/09
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin
Incontinence:  1 Month     ED:  Non issue at any point post surgery, no problem post SRT
Post Surgery  PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, next one:  July
Latest:  7/9 cath #6 - 41 days, 8/9 2nd corr surgery, 8/9 cath #7 - 38 days, mapped  9/9, 10/1 - 3rd corr. surgery - SP cath, 10/5 - 11/27 IMRT SRT 39 sess/72 gys ,cath #8 33 days, Cath #9 35 days, Cath #10 43 days, 1/19 - Corr Surgery #4,  Caths #11 and #12 ,Cath #11 - 21 days,  Cath #12 - 41 days, 3/2- Corr Surgery #5, Cath #13 - 4 days, Cath #14- 27 days, Cath #15 - 26 days, Cath #16 - 31 days, Cath #17 - 39 days, 7/2 - Corr Surgery #6, 7/2 - Caths #18 & #19


BB_Fan
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Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 1011
   Posted 7/9/2010 5:51 PM (GMT -6)   
Nothing wrong with wanting to have a little control Dave. I think "Snuffy's" position, from his book, is that once you drive PSA to an undetectable level, .05 I think, with hormones you may be able to keep it there with a combination of diet, suppliments and exerise . Is it maintainable for a long period of time, who knows. But if you can get there, any amount of time is a bonus.
Dx with PC Dec 2008 at 56, PSA 3.4


Biopsy: T1c, Geason 7 (3+4) - 8 cores taken with 4 positive for PCa, 30% of all 4 cores.

Robotic Surgery March 2009 Hartford Hospital, Dr Wagner
Pathology Report: T2c, Geason 8, organ confined, negitive margins, lymph nodes negitive - tumor volume 9%
nerves spared, no negitive side effects of surgery

One night in hospital, back to work in 3 weeks

psa Jun 09 <.01
psa Oct 09 <.01
psa Jan 10 .07 re-test one week later .05
psa Mar 10 .28 re-test two weeks later .31
psa May 10  .50

Aril 10 MRI and Bone Scan show lesion on lower spine, false positive. 
 
Started HT 5/25/10 with 3 month shot of Trelstar. SRT scheduled for late July


60Michael
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Date Joined Jan 2009
Total Posts : 2222
   Posted 7/9/2010 6:13 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks for the link as it is interesting reading. Feel like my diet is not too far off but I dont take supplements. The day might come where I will try anything, except a Steve MQueen going to Mexico.
Michael
Dx with PCA 12/08 2 out of 12 cores positive 4.5 psa
59 yo when diagnosed, 61 yo 2010
Robotic surgery 5/09 Atlanta, Ga
Catheter out after 10 days
Gleason upgraded to 3+5, volume less than 10%
2 pads per day, 1 depends but getting better,
 started ED tx 7/17, slow go
Post op dx of neuropathy
T2C left lateral and left posterior margins involved
3 months psa.01, 6 month psa.4, 6 1/2 month psa.5 on 11/28/10
Starting IMRT on 1/18/10, Completed 39 tx at 70 gys on 3/12/10
6 week Post IMRT PSA .44 a drop from .5 but maybe more
Great family and friends
Michael


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 7/9/2010 6:43 PM (GMT -6)   
BB, there is certainly nothing wrong with buying time. With PC in general, not a bad idea, especially depending on your age at diagnosis.
Age: 57, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 7/08 12.3, 9/08 14.5, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 - 7/7 Positive, 40-90% Cancer, Gleason 4+3
Open RP: 11/08, Rht nerves saved, 4 days in hospt, on catheters for 63 days, 5th one out 1/09
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin
Incontinence:  1 Month     ED:  Non issue at any point post surgery, no problem post SRT
Post Surgery  PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, next one:  July
Latest:  7/9 cath #6 - 41 days, 8/9 2nd corr surgery, 8/9 cath #7 - 38 days, mapped  9/9, 10/1 - 3rd corr. surgery - SP cath, 10/5 - 11/27 IMRT SRT 39 sess/72 gys ,cath #8 33 days, Cath #9 35 days, Cath #10 43 days, 1/19 - Corr Surgery #4,  Caths #11 and #12 ,Cath #11 - 21 days,  Cath #12 - 41 days, 3/2- Corr Surgery #5, Cath #13 - 4 days, Cath #14- 27 days, Cath #15 - 26 days, Cath #16 - 31 days, Cath #17 - 39 days, 7/2 - Corr Surgery #6, 7/2 - Caths #18 & #19


Sleepless09
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Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 1267
   Posted 7/9/2010 11:09 PM (GMT -6)   
David comments, "But they also felt that once the "cow was out of the barn" with cancer, a lifetime of bad eating habits was not going to be remedied by some last minute in life dietary or supplement changes."

With my cow out of the barn this evening, at friends for dinner, when asked if I'd have the blueberry or the apple pie I said I'd have both, thank you, with a nice dollop of ice cream.

Nice to know, David, that my lifetime love of pie and ice cream, while it may not have done me any good for 67 years can now safely remain with me for whatever years I may have left.

It's a quality of life issue, right?

Pity the hostess didn't have chocolate sauce for the ice cream. I think I read somewhere that chocolate is good for you.

Sheldon AKA Sleepless
Age 67 in Apil '09 at news of 4 of 12 cores positive T2B and Gleason 3 + 3 and 5% to 25% PSA 1.5
Re-read of slides in June said Gleason 3 + 4 same four cores 5% to 15%
June 29 daVinci prostatectomy, Dr. Eric Estey, at Royal Alexandra Hospital Edmonton one night stay
From "knock out" to wake up in recovery less than two hours.  Actual surgery 70 minutes
Flew home to Winnipeg on July 3 after 5 nights in Ramada Inn  ---  perfect recovery spot!
Catheter out July 9
Final pathology is 3 + 4 Gleason 7, clear margins, clear nodes, T2C, sugeron says report is "excellent"
 
Oct 1st 09 -- dry at night, during day some stress issues.
Oct 31st padless 24/7 
 
First post op PSA Sept 09  less than 0.02
PSA on Oct 23 test again less than 0.02
PSA on Jan 8 less than 0.02
PSA on April 9 less than 0.02 
 
  


goodlife
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Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 2691
   Posted 7/10/2010 9:38 PM (GMT -6)   
I know this is heresy, but I'm with the QOL on this one. As a Gleason 9 guy, my odds aren't the greatest, and I probably should grasp at every straw I can find, BUT, having already given up sex as I knew it, perfectly dry pants all the time, and sweating PSA's every three months, I am not giving up steaks, pork chops, tuna, and peanuts, walnuts, etc. I am not drinking pomegranite juice, and I am doing my best to enjoy every day that I have here on earth.

One would think that nomgram stats won't be swayed much by the do's and don't's of eating, but what do I know.

I have lost 30 pounds, try to eat sensibly, exercise somewhat with work and with walks, but no trips to the gym.

As much as I can , I try to forget that I have PC. Pulling my little list of don't's out at the restaurant just reminds me again. No thanks.

But my hats to the guys who have the discipline to do it .
Goodlife
 
Age 58, PSA 4.47 Biopsy - 2/12 cores , Gleason 4 + 5 = 9
Da Vinci, Cleveland Clinic  4/14/09   Nerves spared, but carved up a little.
0/23 lymph nodes involved  pT3a NO MX
Catheter and 2 stints in ureters for 2 weeks .
Neg Margins, bladder neck negative
Living the Good Life, cancer free  6 week PSA  <.03
3 month PSA <.01 (different lab)
5 month PSA <.03 (undetectable)
6 Month PSA <.01
1 pad a day, no progress on ED.  Trimix injection
No pads, 1/1/10,  9 month PSA < .01
1 year psa (364 days) .01


Carlos
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 486
   Posted 7/11/2010 10:48 AM (GMT -6)   
Zufus, thanks for posting the link.  I noticed that Dr. Myers recommends both selenium and Vit. E even though a large clinical trial run by the NCI found that the supplements did not offer any benefit.   This is a link to the NCI clinical trial:  http://www.cancer.gov/newscenter/pressreleases/SELECTQandA
 
Here is summary:  "Although there were no statistically significant differences (in other words, these differences could have occurred by chance alone) in the rates of prostate cancer between the four groups in the trial, there was a larger number of cases in men taking only vitamin E. The difference does not prove that vitamin E causes prostate cancer and may be due to chance."  
 
Why would Dr. Myers ignore these findings?  This particular study involved 35,000 participants.
 
Carlos

Diagnosed 2/2008 at age 71, Gleason score 5+3=8, stage T1c, PSA 9.1. 
Robotic surgery 5/2008, nerves spared, stg. pT2c, N0, MX, R0, Gleason 5+3=8 
PSA <0.1 at 26 months and at all tests since surgery.


Purgatory
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Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 7/11/2010 11:07 AM (GMT -6)   
Because he comes across to some people as "I know everything, and everyone else is wrong, and its ok for everyone else to be wrong, and I am the only one right and you can trust me" kind of person. Respected doctor or not, even with his long record of helping people and thinking outside the box, the man is not always right. He distances himself from most of his peers in this world of his own. It worries me how much stock people put in some of his odd suggestions and methods. The study you mentioned is a good example of ignoring facts in front of one's nose, because it doesn't fit into their theories. I believe the man has a lot of good ideas, but don't understand why he is idolized by some so heavily. He is the odd man out in most situation. And when push comes to shove, it still comes down to lots of money, and money up front. The guy has gotten quite rich just from the sale of his thirty-dollar book, and if you want the honor to see him, you better have plenty of money in your hands, because he won't take insurance. I often wonder if it isn't the other way around, that most mainstream health insurances wouldn't approve him either.

Know these won't be popular thoughts, but I know some here have thought the same thing at times. And I go on record, this is just my personal opinion.

David in SC
Age: 57, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 7/08 12.3, 9/08 14.5, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 - 7/7 Positive, 40-90% Cancer, Gleason 4+3
Open RP: 11/08, Rht nerves saved, 4 days in hospt, on catheters for 63 days, 5th one out 1/09
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin
Incontinence:  1 Month     ED:  Non issue at any point post surgery, no problem post SRT
Post Surgery  PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, next one:  July
Latest:  7/9 cath #6 - 41 days, 8/9 2nd corr surgery, 8/9 cath #7 - 38 days, mapped  9/9, 10/1 - 3rd corr. surgery - SP cath, 10/5 - 11/27 IMRT SRT 39 sess/72 gys ,cath #8 33 days, Cath #9 35 days, Cath #10 43 days, 1/19 - Corr Surgery #4,  Caths #11 and #12 ,Cath #11 - 21 days,  Cath #12 - 41 days, 3/2- Corr Surgery #5, Cath #13 - 4 days, Cath #14- 27 days, Cath #15 - 26 days, Cath #16 - 31 days, Cath #17 - 39 days, 7/2 - Corr Surgery #6, 7/2 - Caths #18 & #19


medved
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Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 1096
   Posted 7/11/2010 12:09 PM (GMT -6)   
Dr Myers seems to have published very few articles in peer-reviewed journals, unlike many of the other prominent prostate cancer experts in the country.  Each of us can draw our own conclusions regarding whether this is  significant or not. 
 
Age 46.  Father died of p ca. 
My psa starting age 40: 1.4, 1.3, 1.43, 1.74, 1.7, 1.5, 1.5
 


zufus
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Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 3149
   Posted 7/11/2010 1:25 PM (GMT -6)   
I did say he was controversial and see what we might gleene from his ideas, I didn't say I agree with all his ideas nor do I follow particularly his advice and I have not read his book but would consider reading it, it never hurts to look at everything from every angle I like seeing opinions. I did not endorse him and said so at the beginning. PCa is very much this dilemna.
Youth is wasted on the Young-(W.C. Fields)


Carlos
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 486
   Posted 7/11/2010 1:38 PM (GMT -6)   
Zufus,  thanks again for your posts and informative links.  Like you,  I want to know as much as possible about PCa.  I do have a question:  do you or medved have any info or links that compare treatment results from Drs. Strum and Myers to other prominent oncologists at say Mayo, MDA, MSK or Johns Hopkings?   Do these highly recommended Drs. even track their results.  To paraphrase and old cliche,  "Show me the numbers".
 
Carlos

Diagnosed 2/2008 at age 71, Gleason score 5+3=8, stage T1c, PSA 9.1. 
Robotic surgery 5/2008, nerves spared, stg. pT2c, N0, MX, R0, Gleason 5+3=8 
PSA <0.1 at 26 months and at all tests since surgery.


zufus
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Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 3149
   Posted 7/11/2010 3:15 PM (GMT -6)   
Hey I can see people sharpening their knives, if someone has links on these onco-docs from leading institutions and clincal info or abstracts, let's read them together. I kind of doubt that information is openly put out their for us, if so let's look at whom put out this abstract, independent docs or a drug companies. Then analyze it and still question it. Then we may reach a possible conclusion or thoughts.
Youth is wasted on the Young-(W.C. Fields)

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