Is Exercise counterproductive

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compiler
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 7269
   Posted 8/4/2010 10:16 PM (GMT -6)   
I have been trying to exercise. Before PC, I worked out at the gym 2-3 times per week.
 
I am almost back to that. My regimen consists of:
 
1) A brisk walk to the gym (.85 miles from my house),.
 
2) 6-9 laps on the treadmill most at about 3.6 mph (most of the time between 3.2-3.9 mph). This generally takes 30-60 minutes.
 
3) Assorted nautulus machines -- not extremely heavy weights but enough to tax me somewhat.
 
4) Hydromassage for 10-20 minutes (that's my reward for working hard!).
 
5) A brisk walk home (another 0.8 miles).
 
OK, we get to my6 concern. Doesn't exercise increase one's T-level? If so, then this could be quite bad for PC (I realize Sonny's thread is questioning this whole concept). Anyway, if exercise increases T-level, then maybe exercise is a bad thing?
 
I might add that if I am correct, when you look at the beneficial effects of exercise, it might NOT be a bad thing.
 
Comments?
 
Mel

63 years old . PSA-- 3/08--2.90; 8/09--4.01; 11/09--4.19 (Free PSA 24%),  after 45 days on cipro! DREs have always been normal. PCA-3 was about 75 (way above the 35 threshold). That led to:

Biopsy on 11/30/09. 5 out of 12 cores positive. Gleason 4+3. 2 cores were 3+3 (one 5% and the other 30%) on one side. On  other side:2 cores are 4+3 (5%)--1 core 3+4 (30%) no peri-neural invasion. prostate is 45 grams. Stage: T1C.  

Surgery with Dr. Menon at Ford Hospital, 1/26/10. He says all looked good. Spared nerves. Unfortunately: Pathology Report: G 4+3 (65%-35%). Cancer in 15% of gland. Lymph Nodes: Clear.  Perineural Invasion: yes. Seminal Vessical Involvement: No.  Extraprostatic Extension: yes.  Positive Margin: Yes-- focal-- 1 spot .5mm. Final Weight is 52.7 gms.  (Second opinion from Jon Epstein at Hopkins confirmed these results)

 Incontinence: joined that club-- definite leaks—1 pad/day. Night is dry, was  using 1 pad at night for security, but pretty much dispensed with that most nights. Update: no pads at night. No pads while at home, but still very uncomfortable. Use 1 pad for out-of-house activities. Suddenly got MUCH better on 3/10/10, almost overnight. Still some urgency but no pads about 90% of the time.  As of 3/12/10--completely continent! Uh...OH. As of about 3/16/10 problems with constant urgency although no pads needed--feels like an infection but none showing in urine.

Update: since late March all is well in that area. I would say 99.9% continent (a spurt here and there, maybe 5 spurts per week). As of 6/22/10, I would say I am 100% continent, but I do have (controllable) significant urgency.

First post-op PSA on 3/10/10--DRUM ROLL: 0.01 Next PSA in mid-June.

Second post-op PSA on 6/21/10--0.02--Not too bad!


Steve n Dallas
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2008
Total Posts : 4848
   Posted 8/5/2010 6:20 AM (GMT -6)   
Its pretty much undisputed and goes without saying  that exercise is good for you.
 
Guessing that a better question would be-> Does exercise really increase  T-levels and to what extent?
Age 55   - 5'11"   215lbs
Overall Heath Condition - Good
PSA - July 2007 & Jan 2008 -> 1.3
Biopsy - 03/04/08 -> Gleason 6 
06/25/08 - Da Vinci robotic laparoscopy
05/14/09  - 4th Quarter PSA -> less then .01
11/20/09 - 18 Month PSA -> less then .01
05/18/10 - 24 Month PSA -> less then .01
Surgeon - Keith A. Waguespack, M.D.


logoslidat
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 6070
   Posted 8/5/2010 10:05 AM (GMT -6)   
Not sure about the testosterone, but it is well documented that cardio vascular exercise does increase free radicals in your in your system. Free radicals can damage cells which can lead to numerous cancers. We all have them. So what you need to do is increse the amount of anti-oxidents in your system via fruit, veggies. Blueberries, strawberries, pomegranite, vitamine E etc. To me the benefits outweigh the risk. Exercise can be a pain, but I have never, I mean never finished an exercise session and said or thought " Gee, I wish I didn't do that " Its hard to get 100% in anything, but Exercise comes close.
age 67 First psa 4/17/09 psa 8.3, 7/27/09 psa 8.1
8/12/09 biopsy 6 out of 12 pos 2-70%, rest <5% 3+3
10/19/09 open rrp U of Washington Medical Center, left bundle spared
10/30/09 catheter out. continent from the jump.
pathology- prostate confined, only thing positive was the report.everything else negative
9% of prostate affected. gleason 3+4, I suppose thats a negative
After reading pathology myself, gleason was 3+4 with tertiary 5, 2-3 foci, extensive PNI, That is a negative, but I am a positive !!
Ed an issue but keeping the blood flowing with the osbon pump
Dec 14,2009 psa 0.0 May 10 2010, psa 0.0

" Hypocrisy is vice's homage to Virtue " Francois de la Rochefoucauld, source courtesy of Tatt2

logoslidat
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 6070
   Posted 8/5/2010 10:07 AM (GMT -6)   
Oh forgot to say anti-oxidants destroy the free radicals we create.
age 67 First psa 4/17/09 psa 8.3, 7/27/09 psa 8.1
8/12/09 biopsy 6 out of 12 pos 2-70%, rest <5% 3+3
10/19/09 open rrp U of Washington Medical Center, left bundle spared
10/30/09 catheter out. continent from the jump.
pathology- prostate confined, only thing positive was the report.everything else negative
9% of prostate affected. gleason 3+4, I suppose thats a negative
After reading pathology myself, gleason was 3+4 with tertiary 5, 2-3 foci, extensive PNI, That is a negative, but I am a positive !!
Ed an issue but keeping the blood flowing with the osbon pump
Dec 14,2009 psa 0.0 May 10 2010, psa 0.0

" Hypocrisy is vice's homage to Virtue " Francois de la Rochefoucauld, source courtesy of Tatt2

Sleepless09
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 1267
   Posted 8/5/2010 3:00 PM (GMT -6)   
Mel, this is MY kind of thread!

Thank you for this. My wife has been telling me that exercise (by which she means something more than an amble to the cottage kitchen for another rum and coke) is GFMPH. Silly woman! Now I can tell her, with a straight face (at least a straight a face as I can manage after that second rum and coke) "As a matter of fact they were just discussing on the group how exercise can increase "T" something or others and this is NOT good."

So ..... discuss away!

Sheldon AKA Sleepless
Age 67 in Apil '09 at news of 4 of 12 cores positive T2B and Gleason 3 + 3 and 5% to 25% PSA 1.5
Re-read of slides in June said Gleason 3 + 4 same four cores 5% to 15%
June 29 daVinci prostatectomy, Dr. Eric Estey, at Royal Alexandra Hospital Edmonton one night stay
From "knock out" to wake up in recovery less than two hours.  Actual surgery 70 minutes
Flew home to Winnipeg on July 3 after 5 nights in Ramada Inn  ---  perfect recovery spot!
Catheter out July 9
Final pathology is 3 + 4 Gleason 7, clear margins, clear nodes, T2C, sugeron says report is "excellent"
 
Oct 1st 09 -- dry at night, during day some stress issues.
Oct 31st padless 24/7 
 
First post op PSA Sept 09  less than 0.02
PSA on Oct 23, 2009 less than 0.02
PSA on Jan 8, 2010  less than 0.02
PSA on April 9, 2010 less than 0.02 
PSA on July 9, 2010 (one year) less than 0.02
  

Ed C. (Old67)
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2009
Total Posts : 2460
   Posted 8/5/2010 6:09 PM (GMT -6)   
Mel,
I have read on many occasions that exercise is beneficial by increasing the free radicals. My T-level is high with or without exercising. I work out 4 times a week similar to what you do but without the hydro massage.
Age: 67 at Dx on 12/30/08
PSA 9/05 1.15; 8/06 1.45; 12/07 2.41; 8/08 3.9; 11/08 3.5 free PSA 11%
2 cores out of 12 were positive Gleason (4+4) and (4+5)
Negative CT scan and bone scan done on 1/16
Robotic surgery performed 2/9/09 Dr Fagin, Austin TX
Prostate weighed 57 grams size:5.2 x 5.0 x 4.9 cm
Posterior lateral lesions measuring 1.5 x 1.4 x 1.0 cm showing focal capsular penetration over a distance of 3mm in circumference.
Prostatic adenocarciroma accounts for approx. 10-20% of the hemisphere.
Gleason 4+4
both nerve bundles removed,
pT3a Nx Mx, Negative margins
seminal vesicles clean, lymph nodes: not dissected
continent after 5 months
2 months PSA test 4/7/09 result <0.1
5 months PSA test 7/9/09 result <0.1
8 months PSA test 10/9/09 result <0.1
11 months PSA test 1/21/10 result 0.004
14 months PSA test 4/19/10 result 0.005

livinadream
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 1382
   Posted 8/5/2010 7:31 PM (GMT -6)   
I have to say that my rigorous exercise sure helped me through ADT3 and now that I am off the treatment I am working harder for my triathlons. Exercise can't be bad.

peace to you
dale
My PSA at diagnosis was 16.3
age 47 (current)

http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/dalechildress

My gleason score from prostate was 4+5=9 and from the lymph nodes (3 positive) was 4+4=8
I had 44 IMRT's
I was on Lupron, Casodex, and Avodart for two years with my last shot March 2009. I am currently (7-22-2010) not on any medication.
My Oncology hospital is The Cancer Treatment Center of America in Zion IL
PSA July of 2007 was 16.4
PSA May of 2008 was.11
PSA July 24th, 2008 is 0.04
PSA Dec 16th, 2008 is .016
PSA Mar 30th, 2009 is .02
PSA July 28th 2009 is .01
PSA OCt 15th 2009 is .11
PSA Jan 15th 2010 is .13
PSA April 16th of 2010 is .16
PSA July 22nd of 2010 is .71
Testosterone keeps rising, the current number is 156, up from 57 in May

T level dropped to 37 Mar 30th, 2009
cancer in 4 of 6 cores
92%
80%
37%
28%

T40
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 103
   Posted 8/6/2010 6:58 AM (GMT -6)   
There is some thought that exercise increases blood flow and assists with the healing process. Closing in on one year and I exercise 5 to 6 rimes a week. I'm younger but I still think exercising has significantly increased my recovery time.
Age 40
Pre-op PSA was 5.8 from wellness test on May 19, 09
Follow up test from uro was 4.6 with a 9.3% free psa
Gleason 3+3 in one core, 3+4 in second core of 12 samples taken
Surgery performed 9-19-09.
One side nerves spared. Nerve graft on other side.
Six weeks incontinence almost over. ED a work in progress but seeing some response.
4 months no longer using pads. ED using trimix with positive response.
Post op October 2nd, 2009 All margins were negative. Post op pathology 3+4 PT2A NOMO
6 wk PSA .004 3 month PSA .003 12-18-09 6 month PSA .003 3-17-10
9 month PSA .005 6-9-10 (They changed the protocol to .005 as lowest number) They told me this after I got the results...
At 11 month mark viagra works to about 90% with Trimix working just fine. PA tells me I'm months ahead of schedule on ED

logoslidat
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 6070
   Posted 8/6/2010 11:38 AM (GMT -6)   
Ed C. I may be wrong but free radicals are in know way good for you. They do happen to exist in our bodies as errant " particals " zapping around. Also to my knowledge, Cardio exercise increases them. The answer is not to, not do cardio, but to increase antioxident consumption to negate them and get the well acknowledged benefits of cardio. Weights are great and all the rest, but trust me on this it is the cardio that us older folks need. This is what givs you the endurance and stamina, that aging and lack of cardio, take away as we age.
age 67 First psa 4/17/09 psa 8.3, 7/27/09 psa 8.1
8/12/09 biopsy 6 out of 12 pos 2-70%, rest <5% 3+3
10/19/09 open rrp U of Washington Medical Center, left bundle spared
10/30/09 catheter out. continent from the jump.
pathology- prostate confined, only thing positive was the report.everything else negative
9% of prostate affected. gleason 3+4, I suppose thats a negative
After reading pathology myself, gleason was 3+4 with tertiary 5, 2-3 foci, extensive PNI, That is a negative, but I am a positive !!
Ed an issue but keeping the blood flowing with the osbon pump
Dec 14,2009 psa 0.0 May 10 2010, psa 0.0

" Hypocrisy is vice's homage to Virtue " Francois de la Rochefoucauld, source courtesy of Tatt2
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