dairy and prostate cancer

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medved
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Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 1096
   Posted 8/8/2010 11:05 AM (GMT -6)   
I have been doing some reading concerning the association between consumption of dairy products and prostate cancer.  There seems to be a suggested association between consumption of low-fat milk and dairy products and prostate cancer, but maybe not between whole-milk dairy products and prostate cancer.  This is the opposite of what I would have expected.   Has anyone done research on this or received knowldedgeable medical advice about it?
 
I am posing one article here.  There are others easily accessible.
 
 
I suppose one answer would be "don't eat much or any dairy at all."   And that is pretty much what I do.  But there are countervailing considerations:  (1) it tastes good (life without pizza??), and (2) dairy apparently is protective against colon cancer. 
 
 
Age 46.  Father died of p ca. 
My psa starting age 40: 1.4, 1.3, 1.43, 1.74, 1.7, 1.5, 1.5
 

logoslidat
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 5660
   Posted 8/8/2010 6:54 PM (GMT -6)   
I read it the other way around once. That ,counterintuitively, it is no fat milk that is the culprit, thr others are ok. Go figure
age 67 First psa 4/17/09 psa 8.3, 7/27/09 psa 8.1
8/12/09 biopsy 6 out of 12 pos 2-70%, rest <5% 3+3
10/19/09 open rrp U of Washington Medical Center, left bundle spared
10/30/09 catheter out. continent from the jump.
pathology- prostate confined, only thing positive was the report.everything else negative
9% of prostate affected. gleason 3+4, I suppose thats a negative
After reading pathology myself, gleason was 3+4 with tertiary 5, 2-3 foci, extensive PNI, That is a negative, but I am a positive !!
Ed an issue but keeping the blood flowing with the osbon pump
Dec 14,2009 psa 0.0 May 10 2010, psa 0.0

" Hypocrisy is vice's homage to Virtue " Francois de la Rochefoucauld, source courtesy of Tatt2

goodlife
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 2691
   Posted 8/8/2010 7:27 PM (GMT -6)   
The synopisis was really poorly written in my opinion. There seemed to contrdictory statements, and more than once it was stated that there did not appear to be a correllation.

In today's chemical laden foods, drinking water, air, household products, etc, it seem as tho it is a real tough job to sort out which chemicals are causing certain maladies. Add on self inflicted things such as smoking, drinking, coffee, pop, etc., and we could study til the cows come home and have a hard time finding corellations.

I would say that a majority of men like a glass of coldmilk and some ice cream. 1 out of 6 men get prostate cancer, so is it in the milk ?

I can drive myself crazy trying to figure out why I was one of the 6. Even if there was a link to milk and dairy products, I would probably not stop, like so many smokers and drinkers do. It won't be me.

Now that I don't have a prostate, I don't really care. I am trying to get my 15 years in and have a good QOL, and that includes cold milk and some icecream, and some cheese.
Goodlife
 
Age 58, PSA 4.47 Biopsy - 2/12 cores , Gleason 4 + 5 = 9
Da Vinci, Cleveland Clinic  4/14/09   Nerves spared, but carved up a little.
0/23 lymph nodes involved  pT3a NO MX
Catheter and 2 stints in ureters for 2 weeks .
Neg Margins, bladder neck negative
Living the Good Life, cancer free  6 week PSA  <.03
3 month PSA <.01 (different lab)
5 month PSA <.03 (undetectable)
6 Month PSA <.01
1 pad a day, no progress on ED.  Trimix injection
No pads, 1/1/10,  9 month PSA < .01
1 year psa (364 days) .01
15 month PSA <.01

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25364
   Posted 8/8/2010 7:47 PM (GMT -6)   
sounds like a plan there, goodlife. one can go crazy trying to find a root cause to a particular cancer, and in most cases, no way of proving or disproving.
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 7/08 12.3, 9/08 14.5, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 - 7/7 Positive, 40-90% Cancer, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, Rht nerves saved, 4 days in hospt, on catheters for 63 days, 5th one out 1/09
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin

Incontinence: 1 Month ED: Non issue at any point post surgery, no problem post SRT
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16

Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06, next test 11/10
Latest: 7/9 cath #6 - 41 days, 8/9 2nd corr surgery, 8/9 cath #7 - 38 days, mapped 9/9, 10/1 - 3rd corr. surgery - SP cath, 10/5 - 11/27 IMRT SRT 39 sess/72 gys ,cath #8 33 days, Cath #9 35 days, Cath #10 43 days, 1/19 - Corr Surgery #4, Caths #11 and #12 ,Cath #11 - 21 days, Cath #12 - 41 days, 3/2- Corr Surgery #5, Cath #13 - 4 days, Cath #14- 27 days, Cath #15 - 26 days, Cath #16 - 31 days, Cath #17 - 39 days, 7/2 - Corr Surgery #6, Cath #18 - 13 days, Cath #19 - 17 days, Total Blockage, Cath # 20 - 7/19

John T
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 4188
   Posted 8/8/2010 9:39 PM (GMT -6)   
Medved,
Pick up a copy of "The China Study" by Cambel. He did a lot of research into the affects of casian??, which is in cow protien and dairy and it's affect on tumor growth. It wasn't prostate cancer specific, but the addition of cow protien vs plant protien into mice induced very rapid tumor growth. The research data is very compelling.
Cambel is convinced that cow protien or casian?? is the major cause of tumor growth in most cancers. He was originally a researcher for the dairy industry when he discovered this.
JT

64 years old.

PSA rising for 10 years to 40, free psa 10-15. Had 5 urologists, 12 biopsies and MRIS all neg. Doctors DXed BPH and continue to get biopsies yearly. 13th biopsy positive in 10-08, 2 cores of 25, G6 less than 5%. Scheduled for surgery as recommended by Urological Oncologist.

2nd Opinion from Dr Sholtz, a Prostate Oncologist, said DX wrong, pathology shows indolant cancer, but psa history indicates large cancer or metastasis. Futher tests and Color Doppler confirmed large transition zone tumor that 13 biopsies and MRIS missed. G7, 4+3, approx 16mmX18mm.

Combidex MRI in Holland eliminated lymphnode mets. Casodex and Proscar reduced psa to 0.6 and prostate from 60mm to 32mm. Changed diet, no meat and dairy. All staging tests indicate that tumor is local and non agressive. (PAP, PCA3, MRIS, Color Doppler, Combidex, tumor reaction to diet and Casodex, and tumor location in transition zone). Surgery a poor option because tumor is located next to the urethea and positive margin is very likely; permanent incontenance is also high probability with surgery.

Seed implants on 5-19-09, 3 hours door to door, no pain, minor side affects are frequency and urgency; very controlable with Flowmax and lasted 4 weeks. Daily activities resumed day after implants with no restrictions. Gold markers implanted with seeds to guide IMRT.

25 treatments of IMRT 6 weeks after seed implants. No side affects at all.

PSA at end of treatment 0.02 mostly the result of Casodex. When I stop Casodex next week expect PSA to rise. Next PSA in November. Treatments and side affects have greatly exceeded my expectations. Glad to have this 11 year journey finally conclude.

JohnT


Sephie
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2008
Total Posts : 1804
   Posted 8/9/2010 6:27 AM (GMT -6)   
As I've said before, there is no one size fits all solution to avoiding prostate or any other cancer.
We know there are certain lifestyles that can increase one's risk of a cancer - cigarette smoking and lung cancer come to mind. Yet, 20 to 30% of all lung cancers have no known causes (e.g., 20 to 30% of those diagnosed with lung cancer never smoked or were exposed to smoke).

Cow protein may contribute to more aggressive growth in some cancers, yet it is encouraged to avoid colon cancer which, according to our gastro, is the second leading cause of cancer deaths in the U.S. So, you avoid cow products to avoid one type of cancer and you risk another type. I wonder if the real culprit with dairy and meat products is all the hormones and other crap that are fed to farm animals. Anyone else notice how "developed" young girls are these days and how so many young women (women in their 20s and 30s) are being diagnosed with breast cancer? I believe the growth hormones and steroids fed to our chickens and cows are the real culprits.

Plant protein - assume this includes soy protein - has merit but it too can cause problems with certain types of cancer especially in women.

While I respect each person's dietary choices, I am not a proponent of giving up any particular food group unless there is a overwhelming medical reason to do so (such as diabetes or cardiovascular disease). As with everything else, common sense should prevail.
Husband diagnosed in 2/2008 at age 57 with stage T1c. Robotic surgery performed 3/2008. Stage upgraded to T3a (solitary focus of extraprostatic extension). Perineural tumor infiltration present. Apex margin, bladder neck and SVs negative. Final Gleason 3+4. PSA: 0.0 til July 2009. August 2009 - 0.1, September 0.3, October back to 0.0, December 0.0, March 2010 0.0. Next PSA in 6 months. Thank you God!

Steve n Dallas
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2008
Total Posts : 4824
   Posted 8/9/2010 7:09 AM (GMT -6)   
I'm way more concerned about getting killed driving to and from work them I am about dairy products or any products we eat for that matter.
 
I do believe in the old-> an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure...But then you have to start getting into QUALITY of life versus Quanity of life. 
 
In other words - I'm going to continue drinking my large 2% glass of milk with super - thank you very much.
Age 55   - 5'11"   215lbs
Overall Heath Condition - Good
PSA - July 2007 & Jan 2008 -> 1.3
Biopsy - 03/04/08 -> Gleason 6 
06/25/08 - Da Vinci robotic laparoscopy
05/14/09  - 4th Quarter PSA -> less then .01
11/20/09 - 18 Month PSA -> less then .01
05/18/10 - 24 Month PSA -> less then .01
Surgeon - Keith A. Waguespack, M.D.


Ash2001
New Member


Date Joined Aug 2010
Total Posts : 8
   Posted 8/9/2010 7:53 AM (GMT -6)   
Has anyone looked at the budwig diet? I am still new to the forum so have not explored enough to know if that option has already been talked about but it is worth looking at.

goodlife
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 2691
   Posted 8/9/2010 8:30 AM (GMT -6)   
Is that bud as in budweiser ?
Goodlife
 
Age 58, PSA 4.47 Biopsy - 2/12 cores , Gleason 4 + 5 = 9
Da Vinci, Cleveland Clinic  4/14/09   Nerves spared, but carved up a little.
0/23 lymph nodes involved  pT3a NO MX
Catheter and 2 stints in ureters for 2 weeks .
Neg Margins, bladder neck negative
Living the Good Life, cancer free  6 week PSA  <.03
3 month PSA <.01 (different lab)
5 month PSA <.03 (undetectable)
6 Month PSA <.01
1 pad a day, no progress on ED.  Trimix injection
No pads, 1/1/10,  9 month PSA < .01
1 year psa (364 days) .01
15 month PSA <.01

Ash2001
New Member


Date Joined Aug 2010
Total Posts : 8
   Posted 8/9/2010 8:38 AM (GMT -6)   
yes it is ..here is the website.

http://www.cancure.org/budwig_diet.htm

LV-TX
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 966
   Posted 8/9/2010 3:37 PM (GMT -6)   
Would recommend anyone going the Budwig diet to carefully research Flax Seed Oil and Prostate Cancer and draw your own conclusions.
You are beating back cancer, so hold your head up with dignity
 
Les
 
Age 58 at Diagnosis
Oct 2006 - PSA 2.6 - DRE Normal
May 2008 - PSA 4.6 - DRE Normal / TRUS normal
July 2008 - Biopsy 4 of 12 Positive 5 - 30% Involved Bilateral w/PNI - Gleason (3+3)6 Stage T1C
Robotic Surgery Sept 18, 2008
Pathology October 1, 2008 - Gleason 7 (3+4) Staged pT2c NO MX - Gland 50 cc
Seminal Vesicles and Lymph Nodes clear
Positive Margins Right Posterior Lobe
PSA 5 week Oct 2008 <.05
                   3 month Jan 2009     .06
                   6 month Apr 2009     .06
                   9 month Jul  2009     .08
                 12 month Oct 2009     .09 
                 18 month April 2010   .19

montee
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 315
   Posted 8/10/2010 5:12 AM (GMT -6)   
It was my understanding that it was the animal fat in dairy products that was the culprit, same as the red meat they don't want you to eat too much of. I use to eat a couple half gallons of bryers a week. But since surgery have not had any dairy, but do drink soy milk on cereal, radiation Onc. I saw a few weeks ago said drink all the soy milk I wanted. While on vacation this summer I found soy ice cream and now I have a soy milk/soy ice cream milk shake a few times a week. Can't tell the difference in the real stuff, especially the chocolate milk shakes. I think as in any disease, it affects some and some it doesn't. Just like smoking, some people smoke all their life and never get lung cancer, some people never smoke and get it. I guess I am different than some, never thought of not drinking milk or eating ice cream was what they were talking about when they meant quality of life, a full time catheter yes, but not ice cream. Which is why my hear, prayers and awe goes out to purgatory and his journey. Makes doing without some food trivial.
diagnosed sept 2006 @ 54 years old, live in Georgia, gleason 3+4=7, (r) lobe only

psa 4.7 (psa rose 1 point per year for 3 years, urologist said still under 4 and no concern. If I can find out about PSA velocity, why didn't he know!)

Told not to have surgery at Dana Farber as cancer had already penetrated prostate, in seminal vesicles, would have positive margins. Would only treat with radiation and HT

RP Emory Atlanta December 2006. Path-negative margin, negative lymph nodes, negative SV, both Lobes involved, 40% gland involved
multifocal perineural invasion, Gleason 3+4=7

1st psa April 2007-<0.04, 6 mos-<0.04, 9 mos <0.04, 1yr <0.04, 21 mos <0.04, 2 yr 0.04 (rising?) 26 mos-0.05, 27 mos-0.04, 29 mos 0.06 Sept 09 ,<0.04 3 year <0.04 39 mo. 0.07 (rising again) 0.07 2 different times 3 mos apart.,now seeing Rad. Onc.  next 2 tests with him 3 mos apart <0.05. 

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25364
   Posted 8/10/2010 9:51 AM (GMT -6)   
Thank you, Montee. For most of us, in our PC journeys, we have our own variety of daily battles and sacrifices along the trek. I have never been a lover of dairy products. I never liked milk as a kid, so I don't use it at all as an adult. Rarely do I eat ice cream, and even cheese its hit and miss with me. No yogurt, sour cream, creme cheese, etc for this guy. So what is a loss for one, means nothing to me. I have said all along, it eating sugar 100% was proven to feed or encourage cancer, I would be totally screwed, lol. At this point in my life, I plan to eat what I feel like, but in moderation. Long gone, are the days of eating at Buffets and other All-You-Can-Eat places. I could almost get sick when I think of the utter gluttony I have seen as such places.
Goes back to doing what we think is right for ourselves.

David

P.S I still would like to see how they milky soy beans, but thats a whole udder subject
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 7/08 12.3, 9/08 14.5, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 - 7/7 Positive, 40-90% Cancer, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, Rht nerves saved, 4 days in hospt, on catheters for 63 days, 5th one out 1/09
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin

Incontinence: 1 Month ED: Non issue at any point post surgery, no problem post SRT
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16

Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06, next test 11/10
Latest: 7/9 cath #6 - 41 days, 8/9 2nd corr surgery, 8/9 cath #7 - 38 days, mapped 9/9, 10/1 - 3rd corr. surgery - SP cath, 10/5 - 11/27 IMRT SRT 39 sess/72 gys ,cath #8 33 days, Cath #9 35 days, Cath #10 43 days, 1/19 - Corr Surgery #4, Caths #11 and #12 ,Cath #11 - 21 days, Cath #12 - 41 days, 3/2- Corr Surgery #5, Cath #13 - 4 days, Cath #14- 27 days, Cath #15 - 26 days, Cath #16 - 31 days, Cath #17 - 39 days, 7/2 - Corr Surgery #6, Cath #18 - 13 days, Cath #19 - 17 days, Total Blockage, Cath # 20 - 7/19

Jim is sick
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2010
Total Posts : 118
   Posted 8/11/2010 10:54 AM (GMT -6)   
Watching Snuffy's videos lately. Concerning what not to eat. He lists corn fed beef as a big no no. He goes on to tell it's the corn that the beef are fed that is causing the trouble. From memory hope it's accurate... People get along better when their omega 3 (good) and omega 6 (bod) fatty acids are more or less balanced. I also read 1:1 to 4:1 is good. I think that's a 4:1 bad to good. So that's awesome, so what? Well it appears that corn has a 45:1 ratio! Paraphrasing Snuffy, "It don't take much corn to mess up your system." So he goes on to state The federal government are subsidizing the over production of corn. Corn finds it's way into your diet in unexpected ways. Chickens fed corn equates to corn oil distilled by the bird. Good news is white meat is 95% fat free. He warns to avoid corn chips, and the like. So corn is cheap and they're feeding it to everything we eat... I have already removed corn syrup from my diet, but my question is, does the 45:1 ratio of bad to good Omega fatty acid pertain to corn syrup (high fructose corn syrup) as well?
48, Caucasian, 5' 8", 210lbs, 180lbs, general good health.
PSA:
8-7-09 3.22
11-13-09 4.25.

Biopsy: 32 cores. 3 cores reveal PCa, 10%, Gleason 3+3=6, T1C.

Diagnosed: 2-12-10.

Current Treatment: Active Surveillance, next appointment Oct. 2010. No meat, no dairy, lots of fruits and vegetables.

Current Supplements (LEF.ORG):
Super Omega-3 EPA/DHA w/Sesame Lignans&Olive Fruit Ext.
Mega Green Tea Extract Decaffinated 98% Polyphenols
Mega Lycopene Ext.

Preferred Treatment: I just want someone to harvest my immune cells, genetically engineer them to fight my prostate cancer, and then infuse them back into my body...

erbob
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 281
   Posted 8/11/2010 11:37 AM (GMT -6)   
Back in 1981 when I was going through cancer treatments (surgery, chemo and rad for a sarcoma) the news media came out with the statement that nitrosomines were bad cancer causing agents. This included beer, meat prepared on a grill and many other foods including hot dogs. One of my cancer doctors, at that time, told me that he very often consumes a hot dog or two and he would continue doing so. When I asked "Why would you continue doing so if you know that they are bad for you", he responded that the lab rats used in those experiments were ONLY fed, as an example hot dogs, and he felt that they were bound to develop cancer if that was ALL that they injested especially in such concentrated amounts. Seems that too much of any good thing can still be bad for you.
Bob, located in Southern Colorado

Age 73 Retired Railroader.
Dx Jan 2010, Volume 51.345
Gleason 3+4=7, second opinion 4+3=7 (Don't know which to believe)
PSA
2.6 4/96.......... 3.7 4/07
1.9 5/97.......... 3.2 1/08
2.3 4/98.......... 6.1 4/09
2.2 10/99......... 5.3 5/09
2.4 8/00......... 5.3 8/09
2.3 6/01......... 6.9 10/09
2.9 2/03......... 7.3 12/09
3.6 4/04......... 6.1 1/10
3.0 5/05......... 5.0 3/10
4.7 4/06......... 0.7 5/10 (Lupron/Bicalutamide)
Volume study at CPCC (Westmont, IL) Feb 15, 2010 = 55.7cc
On Feb 15, 2010 put on 90 days of Bicalutamide
Got LHRH Lupron shot on Feb 29,2010
Another Volume study May 24, 2010 = in mid-40cc
BRACHYTHERAPY received May 26, 2010
Received 80 I-125 (Iodine seeds)
Activity per seed (mCi) 0.373
Total activity implanted (mCi)29.80
Measured exposure @ 3 feet (mR/hr) 0.06
Received the Brachytherapy at the Chicago Prostate Cancer Center from Dr. Brian Moran
Walked in the facilty and just a few hours later walked right out.
No after effects other than just a little sore from the needle sticks but NOT serious
enough to take ANY meds for pain.
PSA to be taken in three months (Aug 2010).

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25364
   Posted 8/11/2010 2:06 PM (GMT -6)   
Bob, that's why I have said all along on the eating choices, its all about moderation on any one food or food group. I don't think folks need to make these tough for-life sacrifices of foods they enjoy. We just don't need to be like the lab rat, and eat our faves 100% of the time. The studies on any one particular food or food group are not conclusive as evidence to most of the experts.
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 7/08 12.3, 9/08 14.5, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 - 7/7 Positive, 40-90% Cancer, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, Rht nerves saved, 4 days in hospt, on catheters for 63 days, 5th one out 1/09
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin

Incontinence: 1 Month ED: Non issue at any point post surgery, no problem post SRT
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16

Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06, next test 11/10
Latest: 7/9 cath #6 - 41 days, 8/9 2nd corr surgery, 8/9 cath #7 - 38 days, mapped 9/9, 10/1 - 3rd corr. surgery - SP cath, 10/5 - 11/27 IMRT SRT 39 sess/72 gys ,cath #8 33 days, Cath #9 35 days, Cath #10 43 days, 1/19 - Corr Surgery #4, Caths #11 and #12 ,Cath #11 - 21 days, Cath #12 - 41 days, 3/2- Corr Surgery #5, Cath #13 - 4 days, Cath #14- 27 days, Cath #15 - 26 days, Cath #16 - 31 days, Cath #17 - 39 days, 7/2 - Corr Surgery #6, Cath #18 - 13 days, Cath #19 - 17 days, Total Blockage, Cath # 20 - 7/19
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