I Need Some Help With This One

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Sonny3
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 2447
   Posted 8/13/2010 4:59 AM (GMT -6)   
Okay so I am doing my best to understand PCa and HT since that is probably the next thing my Onco is going to suggest. I ran across this paper and I really could use your help in evaluating this information. Summary "testosterone does not cause or feed PCa, estrogen does".

www.newswithviews.com/Howenstine/james56.htm

Thanks. Looking forward to the discussions on this. If this has been discussed here before, I am sorry, I missed it.

Sonny
60 years old when diagnosed
PSA 11/07 3.0
PSA 5/09 6.4
da Vinci 9/17/09
Post Surgery Pathology: GS 4+3=7
Stage: T3a
Tumor Volume 12.5%
positive margin, extra-prostatic extension
30 day PSA 0.4, 50 day psa 0.53, 64 day psa 0.6
IMRT completed 1/15/10 35 treatments- 70Gy

2/24/10 FIRST POST RAD PSA 1.0---CARRRP --waiting for the next test.
3/22/10 Second Post RAD PSA 1.5 Dammmmnnn stubborn son of a gun
4/19/10 YAHOO PSA dropped to 1.2 Moving in the right direction.
5/7/10 PSA test 1.3 Sodium Fluoride PET Scan & CT SCAN -performed
5/20/10 PSA test 1.2 Holding off on future tests for 3 months- single lytic lesion found and scheduling radiation.
7/22/10 PSA test 1.3 - Begin radiation for MET on leg
8/9/10 - Met radiation completed

Geebra
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 476
   Posted 8/13/2010 5:20 AM (GMT -6)   
This does not look like a serious research. They are pushing products. I would not pay attention to this.
Father died from poorly differentiated PCa @ 78 - normal PSA and DRE
5 biopsies over 4 years negative while PSA going from 3.8 to 28
Dx Nov 2007, age 46, PSA 29, Gleason 4+4=8
Decided to participate in clinical trial at Duke - 6 rounds of chemo (Taxotere + Avastin)
PSA prior to treatment 1/8/2008 is 33.90, bounced on 1/31/2008 to 38.20, and down at the end of the treatment (4/24/2008) to 20.60
RRP at Duke (Dr. Moul) on 6/16/2008, Gleason downgraded 4+3=7, T3a N0MX, focal extraprostatic extension, two small positive margins
PSA undetectable for 8 months, then 2/6/2009 0.10, 4/26/2009 0.17, 5/22/2009 0.20, 6/11/2009 0.27
ADT (ongoing, duration TBD): Lupron started 6/22/2009
Salvage IMRT to prostate bed and pelvis - 72gy over 40 treatments finished 10/21/2009
PSA 6/25/2009 0.1, T=516, 7/23/2009 <0.05, T<10, 10/21/2009 <0.05, T<10

Sonny3
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 2447
   Posted 8/13/2010 5:33 AM (GMT -6)   
Geeb, I see where you are coming from, but there are references to other studies and doctors that do not seem to be promoting products. Thanks for your input, I am just trying to make sense of all of this stuff. You gotta admit, compared to selecting surgery or radiation (in various forms) this whole thing about signing on for HT is a much more complicated issue that it appears at first.

Sonny
60 years old when diagnosed
PSA 11/07 3.0
PSA 5/09 6.4
da Vinci 9/17/09
Post Surgery Pathology: GS 4+3=7
Stage: T3a
Tumor Volume 12.5%
positive margin, extra-prostatic extension
30 day PSA 0.4, 50 day psa 0.53, 64 day psa 0.6
IMRT completed 1/15/10 35 treatments- 70Gy

2/24/10 FIRST POST RAD PSA 1.0---CARRRP --waiting for the next test.
3/22/10 Second Post RAD PSA 1.5 Dammmmnnn stubborn son of a gun
4/19/10 YAHOO PSA dropped to 1.2 Moving in the right direction.
5/7/10 PSA test 1.3 Sodium Fluoride PET Scan & CT SCAN -performed
5/20/10 PSA test 1.2 Holding off on future tests for 3 months- single lytic lesion found and scheduling radiation.
7/22/10 PSA test 1.3 - Begin radiation for MET on leg
8/9/10 - Met radiation completed

tatt2man
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 2842
   Posted 8/13/2010 5:44 AM (GMT -6)   
sonny - it has always been my understanding since I started my PCa journey that testosterone feeds PCa - and reducing testosterone can slow the PSA numbers through HT.
- the link seems to be one big advertisement and not research piece - I would not put much faith in that... just like the guy with the bee pollen curing cancer page ....

in the mean time -click on this website from Princess Margaret Hospital - and use the information guide your visit link - hormone therapy

www.prostatecentre.ca/

it even has video and animation.

sincere hugs
BRONSON


post script - found this article about testosteron and PCa - at: www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000380.htm and it included new elements regarding those at risk - farmers ( I guess herbicides and pesticides) , tire plant workers, painters and those exposed to cadmium ( aritsts using certain paints !!)
shocked
.................
Age: 54 - gay - with common-law spouse of 13 years, Steve - 60
PSA: 04/2007- 1.68 - 08/2009 - 3.46 - 10/2009 - 3.86
Confirmation of Prostate Cancer: October 16, 2009 - 6 of 12 cancerous samples , Gleason 7 (4+3)
Doctor: Dr. Mohamed Elharram -Urologist / Surgeon - Peterborough Regional Health Centre
Radical Prostatectomy Operation: November 18, 2009 , home - November 21, 2009
Post Surgery Biopsy: pT3a- gleason 7 - extraprostatic extension - perineural invasion - prostate weight - 34.1gm -
ED Prescription: Jan 8/2010 - started daily 5mg cialis - girth back to normal -but not much length - June/2010 -have trimix - tried it twice - Aug 2010 -just lacking motivation right now
Incontinence: Feb 2010- 3-5 pads/1-2 clothes changes/day- March 3, 2010 - week 14 after surgery -finally seeing improvement - March 29- incontinence better - 1-2 pads a day - one pad at night - May 25 - 1 pad during day - 1 pad at night for security (barely needed at all) - stress incontinence at work - lifting trees and shrubs - August 2010 - still at one pad for day and one for night - primarily for hygiene and security - still having good and bad days due to stress and what I have consumed.
location: Peteborough, Ontario, Canada
Post Surgery-PSA: - April 8, 2010 - 0.05 - I am in the ZERO CLUB - hooorah!
Next PSA - October 8, 2010 - TBA -
............

Post Edited (tatt2man) : 8/13/2010 5:54:19 AM (GMT-6)


zufus
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 3149
   Posted 8/13/2010 6:05 AM (GMT -6)   
Howdy, amigo glad you are diligent about looking, hey like Al Pacino says...
"hey I'm just gettin started".... (Hoooo-rah!) All men have some estrogen in them normally too (fyi) if you wish to read about such. Gee I am feeding my PCa? ;-)
(adding-of course I don't believe this article even without reading it-Kreskin told me)

Zufus reminder on PCa: Twilight Zone (seems like non-fiction in comparison)-LOL
Other superlatives I like are: jungle and living in limbo land (treated or untreated)
Other than that it is simplistic all the time (NOT)- LOL
Youth is wasted on the Young-(W.C. Fields)

Post Edited (zufus) : 8/13/2010 10:48:39 AM (GMT-6)


don826
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2008
Total Posts : 1010
   Posted 8/13/2010 8:30 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi Sonny,
 
The link is to an article I ran across during my initial research on PCa therapy. It is a bit lengthy but covers the waterfront on HT. As for the link in question I have no opinion.
 
Best to you,
Don
 
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1578721/
Diagnosed 04/10/08 Age 58 at the time
Gleason 4 + 3
DRE palpable tumor on left side
100% of 12 cores positive for PCa range 35% to 85%
Bone scan clear and chest x ray clear
CT scan shows potential lymph node involvement in pelvic region
Started Casodex on May 2 and stopped on June 1, 2008
Two years on Lupron completed 01/2010.
Started IMRT/IGRT on July 10, 2008. 45 treatments scheduled
First 25 were full pelvic for a total dose of 45 Gray to lymph nodes.
Last 20 to prostate only. Total dose to prostate 81 Gray.
Completed IMRT/IGRT 09/11/08.
PSA 02/08 21.5 at diagnosis
PSA 07/08 .82 after 8 wks of hormones
PSA 10/08 .642 one month after completion of IMRT, 6 months hormone
PSA 03/09 .38 six months post radiation and nine months into hormones
PSA 06/09 .36 or .30 depending on who did the test
PSA 09/09 .33 one year after IMRT and 16 months into hormone
PSA 03/10 .32 18 months after IMRT Still on hormones
PSA 05/10 .42 Rising a little as the lupron wears off. Last lupron shot 01/10.
PSA 06/10 .322 Maybe the .42 reported in May was in error?
PSA 07/14/2010 0.1

Tony Crispino
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 8128
   Posted 8/13/2010 10:05 AM (GMT -6)   
i don't find any credible information on the "doctor". In fact he says this "therapy" can:

"Deleterious high homocysteine blood levels are quickly reversed by MC therapy which may also help prevent Alzheimer’s Disease, aging, cancer and arteriosclerosis. Folic Acid deficiency is very common currently."

He also has a product for psychiatry, lung cancer, and a product for just about every illness. In fact you should never do chemo or radiation because he has a pill that will cure you...

If you google his name, He does not show up as board certified anywhere. In fact he can cure everything.

Uh.

In fact, I would stay as far away from this as possible. If it wasn't you, a legitimate member here, posting it I would have taken this down and reported it as spam.

DO NOT TAKE THIS SERIOUSLY, it a sales attempt for FDA uncontrolled supplementary products.

Tony
Disease:
Advanced Prostate Cancer at age 44 (I am 48 now)
pT3b,N0,Mx (original PSA was 19.8) EPE, PM, SVI. Gleason 4+3=7

Treatments:
RALP ~ 2/17/2007 at the City of Hope near Los Angeles.
Adjuvant Radiation Therapy ~ IMRT Completed 8/07
Adjuvant Hormone Therapy ~ 28 months on Casodex and Lupron.

Status:
"I beat up this disease and took its lunch money! I am in remission."
I am currently not being treated, but I do have regular oncology visits.
I am the president of an UsTOO chapter in Las Vegas

Blog : www.caringbridge.org/visit/tonycrispino

John T
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 4229
   Posted 8/13/2010 10:10 AM (GMT -6)   
Sonny,
The Prostate Cancer Research Institute web site has an entire section devoted to HT including side affects ect. These articles are all written by credible doctors backed up by a lot of research. This is where I would start my research.
JT

64 years old.

PSA rising for 10 years to 40, free psa 10-15. Had 5 urologists, 12 biopsies and MRIS all neg. Doctors DXed BPH and continue to get biopsies yearly. 13th biopsy positive in 10-08, 2 cores of 25, G6 less than 5%. Scheduled for surgery as recommended by Urological Oncologist.

2nd Opinion from Dr Sholtz, a Prostate Oncologist, said DX wrong, pathology shows indolant cancer, but psa history indicates large cancer or metastasis. Futher tests and Color Doppler confirmed large transition zone tumor that 13 biopsies and MRIS missed. G7, 4+3, approx 16mmX18mm.

Combidex MRI in Holland eliminated lymphnode mets. Casodex and Proscar reduced psa to 0.6 and prostate from 60mm to 32mm. Changed diet, no meat and dairy. All staging tests indicate that tumor is local and non agressive. (PAP, PCA3, MRIS, Color Doppler, Combidex, tumor reaction to diet and Casodex, and tumor location in transition zone). Surgery a poor option because tumor is located next to the urethea and positive margin is very likely; permanent incontenance is also high probability with surgery.

Seed implants on 5-19-09, 3 hours door to door, no pain, minor side affects are frequency and urgency; very controlable with Flowmax and lasted 4 weeks. Daily activities resumed day after implants with no restrictions. Gold markers implanted with seeds to guide IMRT.

25 treatments of IMRT 6 weeks after seed implants. No side affects at all.

PSA at end of treatment 0.02 mostly the result of Casodex. When I stop Casodex next week expect PSA to rise. Next PSA in November. Treatments and side affects have greatly exceeded my expectations. Glad to have this 11 year journey finally conclude.

JohnT


Arnie
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 372
   Posted 8/13/2010 11:12 AM (GMT -6)   
While the doctor in question and his products appear to be a shill, he does cite a doctor who is not. Here are two links to articles by Morganthaler that should provide food for thought on this subject. I, like Sonny, have found other studies on the estrogen/testosterone discussion, and find that it's not as cut and dried as we have believed.

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2008/dec2008_destroying-the-myth-about-testosterone-replacement-prostate-cancer_01.htm

http://www.aolhealth.com/2010/06/04/testosterone-therapy-and-prostate-cancer

The first is rather lengthy but worth wading through....the second, sort of a synopsis and summary of presentation of the first.

Arnie in DE
Age 56 (biopsy & surgery)
PSA at Diagnosis-3.9
Biposy 8/19/08--4 of 12 cores positive; 5% involvement, Gleason 6 (3+3)
 
Surgery 1/26/09-DaVinci Robotic Prostatectomy at Presbyterian Medical Center/HUP-Phila, PA
Dr. David Lee
 
Pathology Report- Adenocarcinoma, no capsular involvement, seminal vesicles clear, lymph nodes clear, negative margins, Gleason 7 (3+4), Stage T2C, NO MX, Prostate 61.8 grams, gland involvement 2-10%
 
Catheter removed after 8 days, totally dry at 3 months. ED issues continue, Viagra (via ADC) nightly (100mgs), VED use in earnest at 6 months. "Ball Park Frank" plumping at this point......ED at 10 months continues to improve, albeit slowly. Continued daily use of 100mg Viagra (ADC). Discontinued pump use; manual stimulation to varying states of erections; achieved penetratable erection on a couple of occasions----At 13 months, nocturnal erections are frequent. Still taking 100mg of ADC Viagra nightly. Libido still in the dumper, but working on it with doctors.
3 month PSA--<0.1
6 month PSA--<0.1
10 month PSA--<0.1
13 monthPSA--<0.1
18 month PSA--<0.1
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