Catheter #21 - Perhaps the last ever?

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Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 8/16/2010 2:15 PM (GMT -6)   
Just got back from the uro's office.  I will address what was  decided in a 2nd post.  He took out #20 and replaced it with #21.  This was what I feared for a week, it was probably the 2nd most painful change-out of all time.  The old one was crusted, as they get, and taking it out was like someone pulling a serrated knive out of me.  My wife, dressed in her uniform, was allowed to stay and even assisted my doctor along with his nurse.  Taking it out was a pure 10 on the pain scale and left me shaking all over.  They did put a full syringe of lydacaine down the SP hole, and then began to put in the new cath.  The first couple of inches fooled me, didnt hurt, so I relaxed.  Big mistake, as soon as the cath hit the inside of the bladder, it was so raw, was just like being stabbed over and over again with a rough stick.  It took the nurse and my wife to help hold me down.  I jerked, it made the cath move out of place, so he had to push it back in.  No telling what I said screaming out in pain.  When he filled  the balloon end of it, thought I was going to die.  They let me rest lying down for a few minutes, and then it took both women to help me back to a sitting position.  Thank goodness, my wife was with me, and she drove me home and got me in the house and on meds and comfortable.  When you read my next post, you will see why this may have been the last catheter I will ever have to be on.  Who could have dreamt that I would be on #21 almost 2 years into this journey.  I am still shaky, and bleeding quite a bit, but that is expected.  When my pain meds kick in, I should be able to get some rest.  I hope and pray that not a single brother, new or old, ever have to go through such an ordeal like this.  I am thankful for a good medical team and a good wife to help me through such a painful event.
 
David in SC
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos marg
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06 11/10 ?
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 8/16/2010 4:38 PM (GMT -6)   
3 hrs later, still a lot of hurt from the cath swap. even after two loratab 10-500's (dr. order). all i can do this time, is stay off my feet, and resist the temptation to be puttering around the house. gee, its a deep burning sore feeling.
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos marg
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06 11/10 ?
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39

compiler
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 7211
   Posted 8/16/2010 6:37 PM (GMT -6)   
I am so hoping that this is the LAST ONE!!!
 
I guess if you had any lingering doubts about the other surgery....
 
Mel
PSA-- 3/08--2.90; 8/09--4.01; 11/09--4.19 (PSAf: 24%), PCA3 =75 .
Biopsy 11/30/09. Gleason 4+3. Stage: T1C. Current Age: 64
Surgery: Dr. Menon @Ford Hospital, 1/26/10.
Pathology Report: G 4+3. Nodes: Clear. PNI: yes. SVI: No. EPE: yes. Pos. Margin: Yes-- focal-- 1 spot .5mm. 100% continent by 3/10. ED- in progress. First post-op PSA on 3/10/10-: 0.01. PSA on 6/21/10--0.02. Next PSA late Sept.

vam4710
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2010
Total Posts : 89
   Posted 8/16/2010 7:33 PM (GMT -6)   
Dave,

I echo Mel's thoughts. I am so sorry you had to go through the trauma and pain. I can't begin to imagine what it must have been like.
Hopefully your discomfort will subside and THANK GOD you can put this chapter behind you. Praying for a quick and speedy recovery for you my brother!
Diagnosis June 1, 2010 @ age 50
PSA 1.7 Sept. 2008
PSA 2.14 Sept. 2009
PSA 2.75 April 2010

May 11, 2010 - DRE Negative - PCA3 Test
May 18, 2010 - PCA3 Results 39 (cutoff = 35)
May 25, 2010 - Biopsy 1 of 12 cores positive; Gleason 3+4 = 7 25%; Stage T1c
June 04, 2010 - CT and Bone scan - All Negative
July 07, 2010 - Da Vinci Robotic Lap. Surgery

PATHOLOGY
Tumor involvement - 15% both right and left halves
Gleason Down graded to 3+3=6
Seminal Vesicles - Negative
Lymph node - Negative
Sub capsular perineural Invasion - Present
Bladder Neck Margin Positive (right posterior) - Microscopic invasion-1mm Focus
pT3a-N0-MX

Incontinence - Dry at night, 2 or 3 pads during the day
5 weeks post op... down to 1 pad a day and a couple of drips - still dry at night

ED - Total flat tire.... but there is signs of life!

First PSA scheduled for 10/14/2010


Northern NJ

tatt2man
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 2845
   Posted 8/16/2010 7:42 PM (GMT -6)   
Dear David - [raising a glass of water / cup of green tea / scotch / bourbon/ whatever - take your pick]
(clears throat)
Here's to the last of the last ... and the start of a new journey ... hopefully soon with the Ileal Conduit Urinary Diversion Surgery that sounds like mannah from heaven for someone who has suffered so much...
To David !! ( clink glasses / tea cups ...)



hugs
BRONSON
Age: 54 -gay with spouse, Steve - live in Peteborough, Ontario, Canada
PSA: 10/06/2009 - 3.86
Biopsy: 10/16/2009- 6 of 12 cancerous samples, Gleason 7 (4+3)
Radical Prostatectomy: 11/18/2009
Pathology: pT3a- gleason 7 -extraprostatic extension -perineural invasion -prostate weight -34.1 gm
Post Surgery-PSA: April 8, 2010 - 0.05 -I am in the ZERO CLUB - hooorah!
Next PSA: October 8, 2010 -TBA

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 8/16/2010 8:23 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks guys.

Supplemented the Loratabs with Advil, but I have to be careful as the Advil makes me bleed with a cath in.
Took some more meds at the four hour mark, and just now, 7 hours after the cath swap, starting to feel some relief. The new cath is draining fast, lots of gunk and pieces in it, but thats is normal at first, starting to clear up. I try to be tough, but this was beyond my reserve of tough guy and strength today. Hoping if I can get a good night rest, perhaps I will do better tommorow.

The dr, at my wifes urging, prescribed a combo antidepressent/pain med, will have to look up the name, to take at night. she was concerned after i had a major emotional meltdown this past saturday. i have been off of all such meds for 5 full years, and thought i was doing well, but nearly 2 years into this PC journey has taken its toll on this soldier. so i will give it a try, to see if it will help

i appreciate all of your kindnesses here at hw, and to bronson, this surgery is exchanging one thing for another, and hopefully it will be the better choice. we really wanted that natural healing, and you would think 9-10 months after radiation ended, it would slowly get better. in reality, i am in worse shape now then even 2 months ago. the doc kept mentioning how raw and tore up the inside of my bladder really was. i know, because i can feel it.

david in sc
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos marg
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06 11/10 ?
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39

Ed C. (Old67)
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2009
Total Posts : 2458
   Posted 8/16/2010 10:15 PM (GMT -6)   
David,
Sorry about all the pain you are having to endure. I hope this is the last catheter and that you will have a permanent solution to fix the problem. Best of luck.
Age: 67 at Dx on 12/30/08
PSA 9/05 1.15; 8/06 1.45; 12/07 2.41; 8/08 3.9; 11/08 3.5 free PSA 11%
2 cores out of 12 were positive Gleason (4+4) and (4+5)
Negative CT scan and bone scan done on 1/16
Robotic surgery performed 2/9/09 Dr Fagin, Austin TX
Prostate weighed 57 grams size:5.2 x 5.0 x 4.9 cm
Posterior lateral lesions measuring 1.5 x 1.4 x 1.0 cm showing focal capsular penetration over a distance of 3mm in circumference.
Prostatic adenocarciroma accounts for approx. 10-20% of the hemisphere.
Gleason 4+4
both nerve bundles removed,
pT3a Nx Mx, Negative margins
seminal vesicles clean, lymph nodes: not dissected
continent after 5 months
2 months PSA test 4/7/09 result <0.1
5 months PSA test 7/9/09 result <0.1
8 months PSA test 10/9/09 result <0.1
11 months PSA test 1/21/10 result 0.004
14 months PSA test 4/19/10 result 0.005

maldugs
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 789
   Posted 8/17/2010 3:33 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi David, I am distressed to see what you are going through again, I really hope and wish this awful situation will come to an end soon mate.

Best regards Mal.
age 67 PSA 5.8 DRE slightly firm Rt
Biopsy 2nd July 07 5 out of 12 positive
Gleason 3+4=7 right side tumour adenocarcinoma stage T2a
RP on 30th July,

Post op Pathology, tumour stage T3a 4+3=7, microcsopic evidence of capsular penetration, seminal vessels, bladder neck,are free of tumour, lymph nodes clear, no evidence of metastatic malignancy, tumour does not extend to the apical margins.

Post op PSA 0.5 26th Sept. Totally dry since catheter removed
PSA 23rd Oct.0.5 seeing Radiation Onocologist 31st Oct.
Started radiation treatment on 5th Dec, to continue until 24 Jan. 08.
Finished treatment, next PSA on 30th April.
PSA 30th April 0.4
PSA 30th July 0.5
PSA 27th Oct 0.4 (I am now 68)
PSA 11th March 09 0.5
PSA 3rd August 09 0.6
PSA 25th November 09 0.6 (I am now 69)
PSA 18th Jan 10 0.6
PSA 27th July 10 0.6

Cajun Jeff
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 4108
   Posted 8/17/2010 6:20 AM (GMT -6)   
David: Whew glad you got that last one done. I agree with Bronson. I tip a glass to you. I know you don't drink but I think I will have one for you. I sincerely hope that you are feeling better today.

Your Brother In PC

Cajun Jeff
9/08 PSA 5.4 referred to Urologist
9/08 Biopsy: GS 3+4=7 1 positive core in 12 1% cancer core
10/08 Nerve-Sparing open radicalSurgery Path Report Downgrade 3+3=6 GS Stage pT2c margins clea
r3 month: PSA <0.1
19th month: PSA <0.1
Only issue at this time is ED

tallguy
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 417
   Posted 8/17/2010 7:27 AM (GMT -6)   

David,

I can't imagine the pain you have gone through. There are so many of us here that share your journey and you know how much we are all pulling and praying for you. Hang in there brother.


64 year old male in excellent physical condition.

PSA jumped 3 to 8 in one year

pt2b NO Mx with a Gleason score 3+3=6.

DaVinci RP, 7/23/08. Tumor type: Acinar

size 5.5 cm x 5.7 cm weight: 77 gm.

Incontinence & ED. Dry nights , no control during day.

FUDS and cystourethroscopy testing 10/09.

24 hr pad wt. 219gm. AUA sympton index 13/35=moderate

Virtue sling surgery 2/3/10 NYU med center

Appeared to help but gradually returned to pre surgery condition.

Back to 3-4 pads/day.

Latest PSA 4/1/10 negative.

AMS 800 artificial urinary sphincter implanted 7/8/10 at U of MI.

Jerry1
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 460
   Posted 8/17/2010 9:12 AM (GMT -6)   
 
David,
 
As all the others I hope you are right and this is the last one.  My thoughts are with you that you finally get some relief.
 
Jerry1
Age 70
DX 8/13/08 , PSA 4.0, Biopsy 14 samples 1 positive 12% of sample,
Gleason Score 4+4 =8 Bone scan and MRI negative
Da Vince surgery on Oct 17, 08 Florida Hospital Dr Vipul Patel
Post Gleason report 4+4 = 8 Lymph nodes on both sides negative
margins Negative Stage II (pt2a)
Cath out on October 29th left in longer due to small leak.
11/19/08 dry no more pads
12/2/08 first PSA <0.1
3/6/09 6 Month PSA 0.0
6/3/09 9 month PSA 0.1
7/14/09 PSA still 0.1
10/15/09 PSA 0.3
10/26/09 surgery to remove 3 clips in bladder neck
11/16/09 PSA 0.3
12/14/09 PSA 0.4
12/28/09 PSA 0.5
Start salvage radiation treatments on January 18th.
Finished IMRT
First PSA after 3 mos. 1.5 not good news

soxfans4life
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 63
   Posted 8/17/2010 9:33 AM (GMT -6)   
David, Let this be the last step of the catheter journey! We think of you alot, and your wife, you both deserve the next step toward healing. We toast you both "Great Patient & Great Nurse/wife" with our coffee , hold you tight in our thoughts & prayers and as always wish we could do more. Now the recovery will begin, I just know it smurf   Annie & Mr. Sox Fan

dx. 3-08  @ age 63. gleason 6 . 1 out of 12 cores positive. 4th biopsy in 8 years. previous 3 negative. followed closely due to family hx.grandfather, father and 2 uncles dx. with prostate cancer. dre negative, cat and bone scan negative. davinci scheduled for may 27, 2008. 2 daughters, retired hospital administration, air force family years ago. Davinci on May28,2008, both nerves spared. Catheter removed in 8 days, pathology report revealed precancerous lesions. Presurgical psa was 5.9, 1st  psa scheduled for August. 1st post surgery psa 0.00, august 6,2008. 2 following psa's 0.00.Yearly followup & psa sched for may 2009. Results of this & Jan. 2010 psa 0.00. 

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 8/17/2010 10:59 AM (GMT -6)   
Ed - thanks as always

Mal, thanks mate

Jeff- drink whatever you wish, on me, the bar is open, I will take a straight shot of Pellegrino water on behalf of the brotherhood

thanks to you, tall guy and jerry

nurse annie - thanks for you and your husbands interest, now, if we could only get the Sox to overtake the Rays/Yankees we would be sitting pretty
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos marg
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06 11/10 ?
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39

142
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 6978
   Posted 8/17/2010 1:13 PM (GMT -6)   
Ah, a good cool Pellegrino! It would be nice. Have one for me.

Pity the little carbonation it has is enough to upset the bladder. Still have a couple of bottles from "before surgery". By the time I can drink them, they won't be drinkable. Oh, well.....

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 8/17/2010 3:47 PM (GMT -6)   
Have a whole case of bottles in the celler where we keep wine
__________________

Tuesday afternoon update: after a long and painful day yesterday, I awoke to find the worse of the cath-swap pain reduced greatly. Still hurts, but not at the level of yesterday. So far, have only used 1/2 the pain meds I was on yesterday, so I know that was an improvement. Even managed to go to drug store to wait for and pick up a new med. Hope this improvement continues.
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos marg
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06 11/10 ?
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39

NY-Sooner
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 463
   Posted 8/18/2010 6:57 AM (GMT -6)   
I don't understand why they have to put this catheter in while you are awake. From what you describe about the pain, it was like torture or even worst.  I know that when they pulled my catheter after surgery, I felt pain like I never felt before, but only for a split second, but still it was pain I would never want to experience again.  When you described your pain it made me squirm just knowing what you went through.
 
Why can't they give something simple to you to knock you out for a few min. When they pull wisdom teeth, they give people a shot of sodium pentathal and you are out and after 15 min you are awake without ever feeling pain. Whay can't they do something like this when inserting a catheter, knowing what pain you will feel? 
 
Age 56, Biopsy 6/2007 - PSA 4.5, 2 of 12 with  <5% cancer Gleason 6
Surgery 9/2007 Strong Memorial,  Rochester  NY with Dr. Jean Joseph (1300 plus surgeries)
 Path - Negative margins, cancer in 20% examined tissue, Gleason 6
 Post Op - No ED issues, full erections without drugs,  used 5-7 pads a day for 3 months. Now dry except for stress leaks now and then.
 All post op psa's <.04

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 8/18/2010 12:38 PM (GMT -6)   
NY,
You realize we are talking about an SP (suprapubic) catheter here. Not a foley which exits through your penis. This SP exits through a hole below my belley button. The uro's office has no real way to knock me out in that sense of the word. They don't have the equip of a dentist office. Plus, they have to be able to take it out fast and put it back in fast. There is about a 2 minute window to do the whole job, or else the hole will try to close shut, which would create a real emergency situation.
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos marg
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06 11/10 ?
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, on Catheter #21, will be having Ileal Conduit Surgery in Sept.

compiler
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 7211
   Posted 8/18/2010 4:23 PM (GMT -6)   
David:
 
Can't they just sedate you (like for a colonoscopy)?
 
Mel
PSA-- 3/08--2.90; 8/09--4.01; 11/09--4.19 (PSAf: 24%), PCA3 =75 .
Biopsy 11/30/09. Gleason 4+3. Stage: T1C. Current Age: 64
Surgery: Dr. Menon @Ford Hospital, 1/26/10.
Pathology Report: G 4+3. Nodes: Clear. PNI: yes. SVI: No. EPE: yes. Pos. Margin: Yes-- focal-- 1 spot .5mm. 100% continent by 3/10. ED- in progress. First post-op PSA on 3/10/10-: 0.01. PSA on 6/21/10--0.02. Next PSA late Sept.

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 8/18/2010 5:16 PM (GMT -6)   
No. Appearently not.

This may be a mute point now, as I have a surgery schedule. This current tube should be ok to leave in until I have the surgery. Then they can what they want and I won't feel a thing.
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos marg
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06 11/10 ?
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, on Catheter #21, will be having Ileal Conduit Surgery in Sept.
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