Vit D -- how much? Statin question too

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compiler
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 7270
   Posted 8/16/2010 5:32 PM (GMT -6)   
I am not one for supplements/vitamins, but I keep reading about Vit. D.
 
Maybe I should just buy some. If so, what would be a decent dosage? Are there side effects/warnings?
 
Incidentally, my cholesterol has been borderline and we (my doc. and I) have always decided NOT to medicate. However, now having PC, I opted to start a statin.
 
I've now tried Zocor 3 times. Each time, I have had side effects (muscular) that COULD be due to the zocor. I have my routine physical next month and will request a different statin (my wife uses Lipitor with no problems). I had to stop the zocor.
 
Any comments about zocor? My side effects were muscle pain/mostly spasms in my upper back and pain in my lower back. Each time, I could ascribe the symptoms to something else (heavy gym workout), but my guess is that zocor is the culprit.
 
Mel
PSA-- 3/08--2.90; 8/09--4.01; 11/09--4.19 (PSAf: 24%), PCA3 =75 .
Biopsy 11/30/09. Gleason 4+3. Stage: T1C. Current Age: 64
Surgery: Dr. Menon @Ford Hospital, 1/26/10.
Pathology Report: G 4+3. Nodes: Clear. PNI: yes. SVI: No. EPE: yes. Pos. Margin: Yes-- focal-- 1 spot .5mm. 100% continent by 3/10. ED- in progress. First post-op PSA on 3/10/10-: 0.01. PSA on 6/21/10--0.02. Next PSA late Sept.

MrGimpy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 504
   Posted 8/16/2010 6:03 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi Mel,

Zocor is a very old statin ( yes free US generic version available, Simvastatin) and many people including myself had muscle pains from using it

Crestor is the newest and cleanest statin, I use that now, its half the dosage of Lipitor or Zocor the results are astounding.

As for Vitamin D, just go outside, Sunlight produces Vitamin D for us

OR, better yet, for a double protective dose eat salmon, it is high in Vit D, 360mg, 3x more than a glass of milk AND its Omega 3 will help keep Cholesterol levels ok

also note:
Countdown to Expiry: Lipitor Goes Generic on 11/30/11
Stats:
Age: 52, PSA (2008)=1.9
Biopsy on 01/09/09, Gleason Score = 3+3
One (1) out of twelve (12) cores was positive, plus external nodule found
Surgery (Da Vinci, robotic prostatectomy): 4/7/09
Post Op Path 3+3
Removed Catheter: 04/19/09
100% bladder control - Pad free 7/09
PSA undetectable tests , <0.01 – 3,9 and 16 months post-op
Trimix provides 100% erectile function

Post Edited (MrGimpy) : 8/16/2010 5:15:33 PM (GMT-6)


RCS
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 1268
   Posted 8/16/2010 6:12 PM (GMT -6)   
Mel,

I currently take 5,000 IU of vitamin D (D3) per day. I take it for a couple of reasons, but mainly because my vitamin D level is low.

You should really have your vitamin D level tested before going to 5,000 IU. I think 2,000 IU was the limit my doctor set without testing. There is a web set you can go to to learn a lot about vitamin D:

http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/

Also, I was on statins for a while. Statins worked real well but I had some side effects (muscle weakness in legs). Went on niacin ... it worked too, but I got tired of the flushing. Some of my wifes patients took fish oil for triglycerides, so I tried fish oil ... it knocked my triglycerides way down. Then I added vitamin D. Currently total cholesterol is 175 .... but HDL is still low (38).
PSA 2007 - 2.8; 11/24/2008 - 7.6
Pc Dx 2/11/09; age at Dx 62
RLP 4/20/09
Biopsy - Invasive moderately differentiated prostatic andenocarconoma; G 3+3=6; PT2C; No evidence of Seminal Vesicle or Extraprostatic Involvement; Margins clear; Tumor identified in sections from prostatic apex. 70 gram prostate.
Continent after removal of cath.
ED - Trimix works well; viagra @ 70%
PSA - 7/31/09 <0.06; 12/1/09 <0.06; 3/29/10 <0.06; 8/4/10 <0.06

medved
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 1100
   Posted 8/16/2010 7:43 PM (GMT -6)   
Regarding vitamin D, I would start by getting a baseline level by doing a 25(OH)D test.   If your level is acceptable, you don't need to supplement.  Of course, what is "acceptable" is a subject of great debtate.  A lab may show the low end of reference range as 32 or 35 ng/ml, but some prostate cancer experts think the appropriate level is substantially higher than that.  I have seen suggestions to aim for 50+, or 60+, etc.  So I guess you gotta figure out what you're aimin' for.  (Obviously, make sure you are using the right unit of measurement too -- sometimes Vit D is measured iin nmol/L -- so do the necessary conversion, if you need to).   The Food and Nutrition Board's "tolerable upper limit" for Vit D is 2,000 i.u./day.  However, many experts seem to believe that is outdated and that significantly higher levels are safe.  If you get 2000 or more i.u. / day of Vitamin D, you probably should monitor your serum cacium levels and perhaps also your urinary calcium to creatine ratio.  Finally, most experts seem to agree that you should take D3 rather than D2, and some  say an oil-based bill is more easily absorbed.  (The caveats:  I am not a doctor; I am not a nutrition expert; these are just ideas to discuss with your doctor).
 
If you want to read more, you might be interested in this:
 
 
 
 
Age 46.  Father died of p ca. 
My psa starting age 40: 1.4, 1.3, 1.43, 1.74, 1.7, 1.5, 1.5
 

MrGimpy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 504
   Posted 8/16/2010 8:06 PM (GMT -6)   
I looked at a couple Multi Vit bottles I have and both provide over 500% of the RDA of Vit D.

Here is a link showing the best food sources, fish is the way to go. Cod Liver Oil has a boat load of the nutrient

But, they say that sunlight is the way to get all one needs

How how effective D vit is After ones prostate has been removed ?

nutritiondata.self.com/foods-000102000000000000000.html
Stats:
Age: 52, PSA (2008)=1.9
Biopsy on 01/09/09, Gleason Score = 3+3
One (1) out of twelve (12) cores was positive, plus external nodule found
Surgery (Da Vinci, robotic prostatectomy): 4/7/09
Post Op Path 3+3
Removed Catheter: 04/19/09
100% bladder control - Pad free 7/09
PSA undetectable tests , <0.01 – 3,9 and 16 months post-op
Trimix provides 100% erectile function

mikey1955
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 673
   Posted 8/16/2010 8:07 PM (GMT -6)   
Mel,

I had cognitive and muscle problems with all statins I've been on...at higher doses (40-80 mG Lipitor, 20 mG Crestor, etc.). In my case, my GP says cholesterol is familial. SE's were vivid dreams, muscle fatigue and joint problems, memory issues at higher doses.

SE's went away at lower doses under my GPs care. Everyone is different in response to statins and my SE's are no longer considered anecdotal. Do your due diligence and look it up online.

I'm presently at 10 mG Zocor (an older one) and I tolerate that well. My cholesterol is higher than it should be but, my diet, exercise, etc., is good.

Mike

Do what you think is right for you under your GPs watch.

Mike
-Nov/Dec 07, March 08 and Dec 08: Severe perineum pain . Septra/Bactrim for 8 months for diagnosed prostatitis.
-PSA start of 2008: 5.3..... PSA June of 2008: 7.3
-14 DRE all benign or nothing felt
-TRUS Biopsy Nov 08: 5 of 8 cores positive GS 3+3 or 6. 30-65%. Perineural invasion.
-General Health: pretty good, 5' 10", 180 lbs, slim.
-Open RP surgery: May 09 both nerve bundles spared. Bilateral lymph node dissection performed. Discharged 48 hours after surgery.
-Post Surgery Pathology: pT3a N0 MX, extraprostatic extension (EPE), stage III prostate cancer, lymph nodes clear, seminal vesicles clear, Gleason upraded to 3+4 GS 7. EPE within surgical margins. Other than prostate and EPE, all tissue removed negative for cancer involvement.
-Bladder control within 48 hours of catheter removal
-ED ongoing but improving. ED oral meds didn't do much initially. TRIMIX was working very well. Initial dose of 0.1 mL too much. Had priapism at 0.075 mL that ended up in a humiliating ER visit. Doses recently after 50% dilution by Uro about 0.025 mL or less. Don't use Trimix anymore...I'm too sensitive to it, even at very low doses and the Alprostadil is pretty consistent in causing erection pain...had a few episodes of 3+ hour wood with pain.
-Levitra now starting to work at low doses of 5 mG to 10 mG. Sometimes the side effects like stuffy nose aren't fun...sometimes OK.
-Was supposed to see ED doc last week, but due to his schedule, will now be late August. Will discuss bimix with him.
 

thunderbolt
New Member


Date Joined Aug 2010
Total Posts : 3
   Posted 8/16/2010 8:31 PM (GMT -6)   
Regarding statins my doc has prescribed Pravastatin for me it is one of the older and probably the best one, I have had zero side effects using it and it has brought my readings down nicely.

logoslidat
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 6079
   Posted 8/16/2010 10:32 PM (GMT -6)   
I take 80 mg simvastatin, still can't get chloresterol below 200 and I eat healthy and exercise, cardiologist is not concerned with that number. I take 1200 iu d3 plus 1000 in multiple vitamin, plus am in the son alot. Idon't know if its too much but thats what I do. Have no side effects from statin. Im lucky I guess as I very seldom get side effects from any drug. Cialis gives me stuffy nose foe the first hour or so. My thing with statins is Im afraid to take pom with it and would like to take Pom. Guess Im betting on statins over Pom.
age 67 First psa 4/17/09 psa 8.3, 7/27/09 psa 8.1
8/12/09 biopsy 6 out of 12 pos 2-70%, rest <5% 3+3
10/19/09 open rrp U of Washington Medical Center, left bundle spared
10/30/09 catheter out. continent from the jump.
pathology- prostate confined, only thing positive was the report.everything else negative
9% of prostate affected. gleason 3+4, I suppose thats a negative
After reading pathology myself, gleason was 3+4 with tertiary 5, 2-3 foci, extensive PNI, That is a negative, but I am a positive !!
Ed an issue but keeping the blood flowing with the osbon pump
Dec 14,2009 psa 0.0 May 10 2010, psa 0.0

" Hypocrisy is vice's homage to Virtue " Francois de la Rochefoucauld, source courtesy of Tatt2

MrGimpy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 504
   Posted 8/17/2010 6:33 AM (GMT -6)   
Mel,

Note: When taking statins you will also want to start taking CoQ10, the statin depletes that nutrient which is extremely necessary

logoslidat,

The 200 number really is not an indicator if your statin is working. My total with NO statins was 149, yet I was at a very high risk of heart disease. My Lipid profile showed Lipo A to be very high.

The days of knowing just the 4 numbers ( total, LDA, HDA and Trig) are past, a Lipid profile drills down into the levels and can pinpoint genetic markers that can be reversed

Talk to your Dr, below is just one of many labs that do this type of test

bioreference.com/act/
Stats:
Age: 52, PSA (2008)=1.9
Biopsy on 01/09/09, Gleason Score = 3+3
One (1) out of twelve (12) cores was positive, plus external nodule found
Surgery (Da Vinci, robotic prostatectomy): 4/7/09
Post Op Path 3+3
Removed Catheter: 04/19/09
100% bladder control - Pad free 7/09
PSA undetectable tests , <0.01 – 3,9 and 16 months post-op
Trimix provides 100% erectile function

zufus
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 3149
   Posted 8/17/2010 7:44 AM (GMT -6)   
Like others have said above, monitor amount of D3 with testings.
You never want to have HYPERCALCEMIA happen, you can read about that. I got my D3 measured at 60 recently, which for a cancer patient is not a risky level. Dr. Strum has written about this and LifeExtension magazine has articles in details about such, might be biased info, but you could still read it, no law against that.
Youth is wasted on the Young-(W.C. Fields)

tarhoosier
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2010
Total Posts : 495
   Posted 8/17/2010 8:48 AM (GMT -6)   
My first tested D level was 25 ng. I took 11,000 iu/day for 8 months, changing suppliers before I could elevate to 60-80 ng. 7200/day now maintains this level. I use GNC gelcaps/2400x3.
I had LDL and cholesterol that was in "normal" range, but was not "ideal". After 10 months of simvastatin @20/day both measures went up!. After a change to 40mg both came down to desired level. No side effects. Effect on psa is not apparent. Both are for general health issues.

Arnie
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 374
   Posted 8/17/2010 12:51 PM (GMT -6)   
My Vit D-3 level was also 25 when tested. I'm now on 50,000 IU per week (one 50K per week) as prescribed by my doctor. They told me I would need to do this to get it up into the 60-80 range like Tarhoosier did. Once there, they'll back me down to a maintenance level.

As for cholesterol, mine's been high for years. My MD and I did the "to statin or not to statin, that is the question!" dance for quite some time. My overall number hovers around 280, and my LDL is around 150-160. Some people, however, can have high cholesterol and do not need statins. Some have low cholesterol and should be on statins. It's not so much the circulating levels as whether it's sticking to arterial walls or not. The things to watch in conjunction with Cholesterol are two inflammatory blood markers----C-Reactive Protein and Homocysteine. If they are high, chances are you'll have buildup. Mine are almost non-existent.
Of course, there was still no way to tell---------so my doctor proposed getting a test done that was not covered by insurance. A Cardio Scan of the heart and all main arteries; a CAT Scan if you will. Due to the fact that I observed a good diet, was a long distance runner and did weight trianing, a treadmill test would not show us anything, as I could pass that with flying colors and still be as much as 70% occluded. So I dug deep ($850.00) and had the scan done......what price health, eh?---Result: Clean as PVC pipe in all arteries and heart. 0% buildup. Measures hard and soft plaque so it's all detected.

I just didn't want to take something and incur side effects if it wasn't necessary. My research tells me that this scan will someday be the "gold standard" that insurance companies recognize, but for now, it's still treadmill or out-of-pocket.

Arnie in DE
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