Cancer's Sweet Tooth

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kbota
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2010
Total Posts : 487
   Posted 9/3/2010 9:42 PM (GMT -6)   
Anyone heard of this? A good friend of mine who was gleason 7 told me this last week.


http://www.mercola.com/article/sugar/sugar_cancer.htm
Age 57 at Diagnosis
May, 09 PSA 2.26
June, 10 PSA 3.07 Free PSA 18%
Met with Uro, DRE +
June, 10 Biopsy, 7 of 12 cores, up to 60%, 4+5=9
July 21, 10 RRP
Nodes negative
Vesicles negative
tumor contained in capsule, still 4+5=9
perineural invastion extensive
Aug 5, 10 catheter out
Sept 3, 10 PSA - 0.00 (great big whew)

142
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 7080
   Posted 9/3/2010 10:01 PM (GMT -6)   
A good friend who was in terminal stages of another cancer told me that he had been medically advised to eliminate all excess sugar. I can't offer more than that, as my doctors have not made that observation.
My IGRT journey -
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=35&m=1756808

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25393
   Posted 9/3/2010 10:07 PM (GMT -6)   
If this were true, I was doomed from day one with my cancers in my lifetime. I am a sugar junky, and doubt that will ever change. There are studies that completely contridict the "sugar is bad for cancer patients". So what is one to believe?
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos marg
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06 11/10 ?
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, on Catheter #21, will be having Ileal Conduit Surgery in Sept.

kbota
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2010
Total Posts : 487
   Posted 9/3/2010 10:13 PM (GMT -6)   
"........So what is one to believe?"

THAT Question is one I've struggled with about soooo many issues having to do with PCa. PCa is a challenging monster isn't it?

And the problem is that the doctors are no help. There is huge disagreements amongst the experts about the best treatment protocols for a particular set of conditions/symptoms/staging,....etc.

drives me nuts
Age 57 at Diagnosis
May, 09 PSA 2.26
June, 10 PSA 3.07 Free PSA 18%
Met with Uro, DRE +
June, 10 Biopsy, 7 of 12 cores, up to 60%, 4+5=9
July 21, 10 RRP
Nodes negative
Vesicles negative
tumor contained in capsule, still 4+5=9
perineural invastion extensive
Aug 5, 10 catheter out
Sept 3, 10 PSA - 0.00 (great big whew)

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25393
   Posted 9/3/2010 11:56 PM (GMT -6)   
in my personal case, my uro and my radiation oncologist don't put much stock in the "sugar" theory. but there are plenty of dr's that do.
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos marg
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06 11/10 ?
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, on Catheter #21, will be having Ileal Conduit Surgery in Sept.

Steve n Dallas
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2008
Total Posts : 4848
   Posted 9/4/2010 4:54 AM (GMT -6)   
Sugar is bad for you with or without cancer idea
 
But then there's the quality of life issue to consider yeah

BB_Fan
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 1011
   Posted 9/4/2010 5:27 AM (GMT -6)   
The prostate cancer institute diet and nutrition guide says to avoid processed suger and simple carbs (potato, white bread, bagels, etc). The issue seems to be that insulin will promote tumor growth as I understand it. I am pre-diabetic and avoid this stuff anyway. Steve is right, suger is bad for you. You would avoid it in excess for the same reason that you would adopt a heart healthy diet.
Dx with PC Dec 2008 at 56, PSA 3.4


Biopsy: T1c, Geason 7 (3+4) - 8 cores taken with 4 positive for PCa, 30% of all 4 cores.

Robotic Surgery March 2009 Hartford Hospital, Dr Wagner
Pathology Report: T2c, Geason 8, organ confined, negitive margins, lymph nodes negitive - tumor volume 9%
nerves spared, no negitive side effects of surgery

One night in hospital, back to work in 3 weeks

psa Jun 09 <.01
psa Oct 09 <.01
psa Jan 10 .07 re-test one week later .05
psa Mar 10 .28 re-test two weeks later .31
psa May 10 .50

April 10 MRI and Bone Scan show lesion on lower spine, false positive.

Started HT 5/25/10 with 3 month shot of Trelstar. SRT scheduled for late July

psa July 10 <.01 HT at work

Casey59
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 3172
   Posted 9/4/2010 12:38 PM (GMT -6)   
BB_Fan said...
The issue seems to be that insulin will promote tumor growth as I understand it.
 
 
Correct.  It's another diet factor within our control which can either accelerate or slow cancer(s) in our bodies.  It's a simple question of whether we want to stack the odds in our favor, or stack the odds against us. 
 
Helpful hint:  pay attention to the experts.

F8
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 3987
   Posted 9/4/2010 1:17 PM (GMT -6)   

all things in moderation.  we all want to feel we have some control over the cancer.  i take a 1000mg pomegranate pill every day to give me an "edge" cool .

F8

Post Edited (F8) : 9/4/2010 2:27:21 PM (GMT-6)


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25393
   Posted 9/4/2010 2:49 PM (GMT -6)   
pay attention to the experts? not even the experts can agree among themselves, makes it difficult for a lay person/patient to go in a particular directions when the experts disagree so much.

f8- you said a key thing when you said "all things in moderation", that's been the generalized advice of all my medical team when it came to topics of particular foods or food groups. They all agree, there is no consensus of opinion among the experts when it comes to diets and supplements, something we have talked much about here.

and as a general remark, the docs say that you cant eat bad for most of your 50-70 years, get cancer, and expert a mega change in diet, no matter how much you believe, have any significant impact in cancer once its out of the bag.

If we would all just be on heart healthy diet, whether it be the Medeteranian diet, or some of the others, it would help us in many ways with our general health.

I think as one of my doctors said once, that the diet and supplement part ,is a "control" things that men in particular get into once they have cancer, they want to feel like they have some say so in the progress of their cancers.

David in SC
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos marg
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06 11/10 ?
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, on Catheter #21, will be having Ileal Conduit Surgery in Sept.

Tony Crispino
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 8128
   Posted 9/4/2010 3:01 PM (GMT -6)   
Could be but I don't consider the site credible. It is a supplement company pushing all kinds of remedies... I think the best line at the website is this one:

"* These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. If you are pregnant, nursing, taking medication, or have a medical condition, consult your physician before using this product."

Heck, they even have a vitamin that prevents allergy to mold...

Ugh...


Tony
Disease:
Advanced Prostate Cancer at age 44 (I am 48 now)
pT3b,N0,Mx (original PSA was 19.8) EPE, PM, SVI. Gleason 4+3=7

Treatments:
RALP ~ 2/17/2007 at the City of Hope near Los Angeles.
Adjuvant Radiation Therapy ~ IMRT Completed 8/07
Adjuvant Hormone Therapy ~ 28 months on Casodex and Lupron.

Status:
"I beat up this disease and took its lunch money! I am in remission."
I am currently not being treated, but I do have regular oncology visits.
I am the president of an UsTOO chapter in Las Vegas

Blog : www.caringbridge.org/visit/tonycrispino

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25393
   Posted 9/4/2010 3:12 PM (GMT -6)   
http://cancerdietitian.com/2008/02/does-sugar-feed-cancer-part-i.html

This is from a leading cancer dietician, de-bunking the nonsense about sugar and cancer. Worth reading even if you totally disagree. There are two distinct sides to this argument, and both can back their claims.
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos marg
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06 11/10 ?
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, on Catheter #21, will be having Ileal Conduit Surgery in Sept.

John T
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 4268
   Posted 9/4/2010 3:20 PM (GMT -6)   
Dr Scholz wrot a piece a while back pointing to insulin as the fuel for PC. That's why the insidence of PC among diabetics is so low. Sugar does produce insulin, but it's not the culprit, insulin is.
JT

64 years old.

PSA rising for 10 years to 40, free psa 10-15. Had 5 urologists, 12 biopsies and MRIS all neg. Doctors DXed BPH and continue to get biopsies yearly. 13th biopsy positive in 10-08, 2 cores of 25, G6 less than 5%. Scheduled for surgery as recommended by Urological Oncologist.

2nd Opinion from Dr Sholtz, a Prostate Oncologist, said DX wrong, pathology shows indolant cancer, but psa history indicates large cancer or metastasis. Futher tests and Color Doppler confirmed large transition zone tumor that 13 biopsies and MRIS missed. G7, 4+3, approx 16mmX18mm.

Combidex MRI in Holland eliminated lymphnode mets. Casodex and Proscar reduced psa to 0.6 and prostate from 60mm to 32mm. Changed diet, no meat and dairy. All staging tests indicate that tumor is local and non agressive. (PAP, PCA3, MRIS, Color Doppler, Combidex, tumor reaction to diet and Casodex, and tumor location in transition zone). Surgery a poor option because tumor is located next to the urethea and positive margin is very likely; permanent incontenance is also high probability with surgery.

Seed implants on 5-19-09, 3 hours door to door, no pain, minor side affects are frequency and urgency; very controlable with Flowmax and lasted 4 weeks. Daily activities resumed day after implants with no restrictions. Gold markers implanted with seeds to guide IMRT.

25 treatments of IMRT 6 weeks after seed implants. No side affects at all.

PSA at end of treatment 0.02 mostly the result of Casodex. When I stop Casodex next week expect PSA to rise. Next PSA in November. Treatments and side affects have greatly exceeded my expectations. Glad to have this 11 year journey finally conclude.

JohnT


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25393
   Posted 9/4/2010 3:58 PM (GMT -6)   
John, that's very true about insulin, and there are many things that make it in your body, ouside of sugar, and your body will produce its own, its if nots getting from dietary input.
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos marg
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06 11/10 ?
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, on Catheter #21, will be having Ileal Conduit Surgery in Sept.

Red Nighthawk
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 289
   Posted 9/5/2010 10:50 AM (GMT -6)   
Apparently, men from Asian countries don't get PCa at the rates of men in western countries. Could it be their diet? When men from Asian countries move to western countries and adopt our eating habits and lifestyle, their incidence of PCa equals our rates. It appears our lifestyle, including what we eat gives us disease.
Age: 62
Pre-op PSA: 4.1
Post-op pathology:
Gleason grade: 3+4=7, present in both lobes, at least 1.1 cm, and occupying less than 5% of prostate by volume. pT2c NX MX
No lymphatic/vascular invasion present.
Seminal vesicles and extraprostatic soft tissue free of tumor.
Inked margins are free of tumor.
High grade prostatic intraepithelial neoplasia is present
Robotic RP: Sept. 15th, 2009 1 day in hospital, cath out on 9th day
Post-op PSA: at 4 weeks ---> .04
at three month intervals -> .03; .02 .05 (darn it!)
ED: Improvement is very slow but there are positive signs. Doc has NOT put me on ED drugs yet but I am starting to anyhow.

Surgery: Dr. Jim Hu. Brigham & Women's Hospital, Boston

BobCape
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2010
Total Posts : 416
   Posted 9/5/2010 11:18 AM (GMT -6)   
"It's another diet factor within our control which can either accelerate or slow cancer(s) in our bodies. It's a simple question of whether we want to stack the odds in our favor, or stack the odds against us." - Well, I guess it's cased closed. Next time my wife offers me anything with sugar in it i'll ask her if she's trying to kill me. Of course, good luck living a normal life without sugar. I dunno, I've had multiple urologists, several radiation oncoligists, and teams of nurses and doctors in between. And the word "sugar" has NEVER BEEN MENTIONED. NOT ONCE.
First ever PSA test Jan 2010 @ 51 years old. 4.0.
Digital exam in March 2010 showed 1 side hard, other soft.
Biopsy, positive in 3 of 12.
Davinci @ Boston Medical Center, May 17, 2010.
Was suggested prior to it was likely contained.
June 1 advised 3+-4 was really 4+3 per pathology. Pos margins.
Listed on patholgy as PT3, but with extraprostatic extension,
microscopic invasion of the bladder neck, PT3A is perhaps the case.
Catheter removed June 1.. 1 pad/day, doing ok. ED, but not in rush.
Sore as heck down there, but doing much walking with my wife.
To meet with my Uri (1st meeting since) June 17 - 1 mo point, to discuss.
BMC already has me setup to meet with radiology.
Felling a little better each day. Cant tell if my expectancy just went from 10-15 down to 5-7, the information out there appears to be all over the place. I WILL NOT radiate my insides to the point of being a veg for the sake of a few years. QOL is primary to me. Selfish I guess. I pray for all of you as I do for myself, but must remember that i've had a pretty good 50+ years, and know others who have lost their children to disease.. so I dont have the nerve to complain! Update 7/14/2010: When I tried changing this sig a few days after creating it, system was broken. My new rad oncologist are discussing IMRT.. though he says he can see why waiting a bit and watching the PSA on super sensitive basis might make sense. I am leaning towards IMRT.. thinking is my body is pretty strong now, i'm 51, and if I can rid my body of this while trying to minimize the side effects.. I dunno. No really Good answers. When I said I didnt want radiation to the point of being a veg.. I really meant there is a limit as to where I wish to go in order to realize only a small increase in life expectancy.. and not that I am an unreasonable person. I do, after all, have an obligation to my wife and kids.

BB_Fan
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 1011
   Posted 9/5/2010 11:56 AM (GMT -6)   
Insulin is the cuplrit. So it's the refined sugar and simple carbs that are a problem and so be restricted. Things to avoid are the 24-36 oz sodas and slurpies, white potato and while bread, bagels, donuts and sugary pastries. Sugar from fruit and juice, whole grains, and yes purg, so chocolate are not the issue as they will not cause spikes in insulin.
Dx with PC Dec 2008 at 56, PSA 3.4


Biopsy: T1c, Geason 7 (3+4) - 8 cores taken with 4 positive for PCa, 30% of all 4 cores.

Robotic Surgery March 2009 Hartford Hospital, Dr Wagner
Pathology Report: T2c, Geason 8, organ confined, negitive margins, lymph nodes negitive - tumor volume 9%
nerves spared, no negitive side effects of surgery

One night in hospital, back to work in 3 weeks

psa Jun 09 <.01
psa Oct 09 <.01
psa Jan 10 .07 re-test one week later .05
psa Mar 10 .28 re-test two weeks later .31
psa May 10 .50

April 10 MRI and Bone Scan show lesion on lower spine, false positive.

Started HT 5/25/10 with 3 month shot of Trelstar. SRT scheduled for late July

psa July 10 <.01 HT at work

Sancarlos
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 242
   Posted 9/5/2010 2:09 PM (GMT -6)   
Red Nighthawk said...
Apparently, men from Asian countries don't get PCa at the rates of men in western countries. Could it be their diet? When men from Asian countries move to western countries and adopt our eating habits and lifestyle, their incidence of PCa equals our rates. It appears our lifestyle, including what we eat gives us disease.


In general there are two major differences between the diet of Asian men and western men, consumption of sugar and consumption of alcohol. Both relate very specifically to blood sugar, and to the amount of insulin that must be produced to process blood sugar.
Sancarlos

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25393
   Posted 9/5/2010 2:57 PM (GMT -6)   
I should add, in my own life: I am a total abstainer, for nearly 40 year, not even a drop of beer, and yes alcohol produces insulin, I never drink sugared sodas nor do I drink fruit drinks, which are high in sugar. In my case, its mostly a chocolate addiction, and most of that is high quality dark chocolate. The only time I use regular white sugar, is the few times I eat Cream of Wheat, or real maple syrup on pancakes, which I dont eat often.

I know on the other side, plenty would dispute the entire topic. At my age and this point in my journey, I dont intend to sacrifice anything else in my diet. If the studies and dr's were 100 percent on this subject, I might pay closer attention

David
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos marg
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06 11/10 ?
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, on Catheter #21, will be having Ileal Conduit Surgery in Sept.

Casey59
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 3172
   Posted 9/6/2010 9:07 AM (GMT -6)   
Purgatory said...
At my age and this point in my journey, I dont intend to sacrifice anything else in my diet.
 
 
 
Very understandable.  It's a well-known fact that change is difficult...the subject of many books, articles, lectures, and the source of lots of consultant, cardiologist, personal trainer, nutritionalist, doctor etc salaries.  After 50-something or 60-something (or whatever) years, there is a lot of "momentum" to overcome to bring about change.
 
I think we all find our comfort level in doing what we can, but I am inspired (and often motivated) by the successes of others in these areas.  Diet, undoubtedly, is the frontier in the prevention of cancer which will be explored and developed in the next decade (with momentum behind the growing awareness and findings that have been published in this recently-completed decade).  The breakthroughs in cancer pervention won't (generally) come from a pill we take or from a vaccine, it will be from the changes we make in our diets.

Post Edited (Casey59) : 9/6/2010 8:37:13 AM (GMT-6)


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25393
   Posted 9/6/2010 11:45 AM (GMT -6)   
Its not a question about "difficult", it's a matter of choice. That makes a big difference. I haven't met a single doctor yet, that would say that diet directly effects either preventing cancer or changing the course of an existing cancer. Not one. And I even had the services of an Oncology Dietician for nearly a year in the past.

They mostly feel that cancers are determined at the genetic and cellular level.

Again, no one is against a healthy heart diet just for the general benefit of good health, that makes sense.

I do not believe, for a minute, that breakthroughs for cancer prevention will ever have anything to do with diet. Am I just a crazy man with a crazy idea? Nope, plenty of doctors and established studies and the FDA share views along thoses lines.

David in SC
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos marg
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06 11/10 ?
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, on Catheter #21, will be having Ileal Conduit Surgery in Sept.

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25393
   Posted 9/6/2010 11:45 AM (GMT -6)   
Its not a question about "difficult", it's a matter of choice. That makes a big difference. I haven't met a single doctor yet, that would say that diet directly effects either preventing cancer or changing the course of an existing cancer. Not one. And I even had the services of an Oncology Dietician for nearly a year in the past.

They mostly feel that cancers are determined at the genetic and cellular level.

Again, no one is against a healthy heart diet just for the general benefit of good health, that makes sense.

I do not believe, for a minute, that breakthroughs for cancer prevention will ever have anything to do with diet. Am I just a crazy man with a crazy idea? Nope, plenty of doctors and established studies and the FDA share views along thoses lines.

David in SC
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos marg
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06 11/10 ?
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, on Catheter #21, will be having Ileal Conduit Surgery in Sept.
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