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logoslidat
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 5871
   Posted 9/22/2010 10:01 PM (GMT -6)   
Bear with me on this last post. My thought process is different, always has been. Like Woody Allen, I should never have joined a club that would have me as a member. It is me, not ya'll This is not a " you wont have me to kick around any more. " I know my self, it just ain't fitten. I'm one of those, don't complain and don't explain person. I feel I have to explain a lot here. Not a complaint, just the facts M'aam!! Please believe me, Zero animosity toward any one.. I've always felt that people really liked me,aka Sally Fields, but when I go there is a sense of relief from those left. I will leave you with a point of information, that most of you may not know. The real meaning of Aloha, from the hawaiian point of view is not hello and good buy. When a Hawaiian says Aloha, what they are doing is saying, " I acknowledge the spirit of of God in you, will you, me." check it out. Aloha, Jack and Sharlyn Kerr
Prefer no response.
age 67 First psa 4/17/09 psa 8.3, 7/27/09 psa 8.1
8/12/09 biopsy 6 out of 12 pos 2-70%, rest <5% 3+3
10/19/09 open rrp U of Washington Medical Center, left bundle spared
10/30/09 catheter out. continent from the jump.
pathology- prostate confined, only thing positive was the report.everything else negative
9% of prostate affected. gleason 3+4, I suppose thats a negative
After reading pathology myself, gleason was 3+4 with tertiary 5, 2-3 foci, extensive PNI, That is a negative, but I am a positive !!
Ed an issue but keeping the blood flowing with the osbon pump
Dec 14,2009 psa 0.0 May 10 2010, psa 0.0

" Hypocrisy is vice's homage to Virtue " Francois de la Rochefoucauld, source courtesy of Tatt2

BillyMac
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 1858
   Posted 9/23/2010 12:49 AM (GMT -6)   
When logoslidat said that his post concerning love, hope and "faith" had nothing to do with religious implications I took him at his word. If I am reading this post correct he is abandoning the forum. That is a great pity ...... it always is disturbing when a member feels they have to leave. But what is sadder is it seems that the members who read ulterior motives into the original post have been shown to be correct in their interpretation. It is a cancer forum, not a forum for espousing belief. Why is that so difficult to understand?
Bill

tatt2man
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 2845
   Posted 9/23/2010 8:03 AM (GMT -6)   
logo - wishing you all the best

-from hawaiian web sites - researching the meaning of aloha
...............
"I recognize the (same) breath of life within you as I have within, and wish to present from me".
...............

"Aloha to learn what is not said, to see what cannot be seen & to know the unknowable."
Queen Lili‘uokalani

sincerely,
BRONSON
..............

p.s. in today's horoscope in my local paper , he compared my new situation (prostate cancer) to the discovery of flight - better off with it than before ?
-it's all in how we interpret life, death and the whole darn thing in between.
.............

Post Edited (tatt2man) : 9/23/2010 9:04:17 AM (GMT-6)


compiler
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 7212
   Posted 9/23/2010 9:05 AM (GMT -6)   

Well, when he said he didn't mean it the way many of us (including moi) read it, I accepted that and took him at his word.

Subsequent posts did kind of confirm my first impression.

However, we accused him of carefully playing with words. I'm starting to wonder if that is just how Logo writes (his style).

Frankly, I had to read this current post a few times to try and figure out what he said.

Logo, I gather you are leaving. But I hope you reconsider.

 

Regal, I'm not sure I agree with your point. If you make a religious post, you will get called on it. David posted the rule. Religion and politics are by nature inflammatory since we all tend to have strong feelings. Given the nature and purpose of this HW board, it just isn't appropriate here. I would hope Logo reconsiders, but if he CHOOSES to leave, then that's unfortunate.

 

But, driven off??

Hardly.

 

Mel

 

 


PSA-- 3/08--2.90; 8/09--4.01; 11/09--4.19 (PSAf: 24%), PCA3 =75 .
Biopsy 11/30/09. Gleason 4+3. Stage: T1C. Current Age: 64
Surgery: Dr. Menon @Ford Hospital, 1/26/10.
Pathology Report: G 4+3. Nodes: Clear. PNI: yes. SVI: No. EPE: yes. Pos. Margin: Yes-- focal-- 1 spot .5mm. 100% continent by 3/10. ED- in progress. First post-op PSA on 3/10/10-: 0.01. PSA on 6/21/10--0.02. 9/21/10--0.06

Steve n Dallas
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2008
Total Posts : 4834
   Posted 9/23/2010 10:30 AM (GMT -6)   

While we’re at it – let’s ban conversations regarding spouses and significant others.  The emotional, physical and mental support they provide can’t exactly be bottled or bought from a store.   

 

Course - we'lll probably have to go with the ol "life isn't fair" rule shakehead


goodlife
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 2691
   Posted 9/23/2010 11:11 AM (GMT -6)   
There, one more HW guy we won't have to carefully read and re-read his posts to make sure he doesn't violate rule #11. Does that automatically mean that faith , hope and love are now taboo as well ?

We should all be proud and happy !

Sad.
Goodlife
 
Age 58, PSA 4.47 Biopsy - 2/12 cores , Gleason 4 + 5 = 9
Da Vinci, Cleveland Clinic  4/14/09   Nerves spared, but carved up a little.
0/23 lymph nodes involved  pT3a NO MX
Catheter and 2 stints in ureters for 2 weeks .
Neg Margins, bladder neck negative
Living the Good Life, cancer free  6 week PSA  <.03
3 month PSA <.01 (different lab)
5 month PSA <.03 (undetectable)
6 Month PSA <.01
1 pad a day, no progress on ED.  Trimix injection
No pads, 1/1/10,  9 month PSA < .01
1 year psa (364 days) .01
15 month PSA <.01

Ziggy9
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 981
   Posted 9/23/2010 11:53 AM (GMT -6)   
goodlife said...
There, one more HW guy we won't have to carefully read and re-read his posts to make sure he doesn't violate rule #11. Does that automatically mean that faith , hope and love are now taboo as well ?

We should all be proud and happy !

Sad.


Yes Faith = Religion - Religion and political discussions are taboo at HW and have been since I've been here. Although at times a few zealots try to make it not so. Logo confirmed our opinions where his faith thread was going. The fact it caused arguments is why religion should not be discussed here. If this forum begins having religious or political threads it will divide into argumentative camps and little actual PCa discussions will happen. The fact that it was nipped in the bud again should make members of this forum yes, proud and happy.

James C.
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4462
   Posted 9/23/2010 12:17 PM (GMT -6)   
I am not gonna say what my interpretation of the post was, but I will say there is very valid and compelling reasons for Rule #11. This is a disease support site, not an open forum for todays issues of politics , religion, or other potentially disruptive subjects. Just keeping peace amongst the AS v/s Non AS members and other cancer related subjects is hard enough without injecting such flashpoint issues as politics or religion. We should all be glad that there are rules against it, as this keeps the Forum centered on it's purpose and doesn't allow for any individual interpretation of what is and isn't 'on topic". There are thousands of online opportunities for people to present their ideas, support, argue, fight and generally battle and raise heck fire , so no one is being deprived of their rights to dissent, convince or argue with others of like or unlike mind. Feel free to go there and find your niche.....

Feel free come here to support, help, share and create a safe and welcoming environment here for people who are hurting, scared, confused, desperately searching for others who can help them in their time of need, or just looking for a friendly place to share and join in comradly brotherhood.
James C. Age 63
Gonna Make Myself A Better Man tinyurl.com/28e8qcg
4/07: PSA 7.6, 7/07 Biopsy: 3 of 16 PCa, 5% involved, left lobe, GS6
9/07: Nerve Sparing open RRP, Path: pT2c, 110 gms., all clear except:
Probable microscopic involvement of the left apical margin -GS6
3 Years: PSA's .04 each test until 04/10-.06, 09/10-.09- Uh-Oh
ED continues: Bimix .30cc & Trimix .15cc PRN

Casey59
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 3172
   Posted 9/23/2010 12:57 PM (GMT -6)   

Rolerbe
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 235
   Posted 9/23/2010 1:04 PM (GMT -6)   
James C. said...
Just keeping peace amongst the AS v/s Non AS members and other cancer related subjects is hard enough...
 
And, Thank You, James, for doing a good job.  I feel that the moderation here has generally been light-handed, fair, and well done.  (even when I got my typing hand justly smacked myself once...)
 
I don't know this particular thread (and don't want to go read it) but Kudo's in general to all the Mod's.

goodlife
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 2691
   Posted 9/23/2010 3:55 PM (GMT -6)   
I certainly don't disagree with rule #11 either. But it is obvious that there is some hair splitting here. (not by mods)

To say that all faith = religion is just not true. Religion requires faith, but faith does not require religion. I suppose now that I mentioned the religion word, I am at risk for proselytizing.

To say I have faith in my fellow man, is not a religous statement. I just can't understand the deep paranoia here amongst older, mature men.
Goodlife
 
Age 58, PSA 4.47 Biopsy - 2/12 cores , Gleason 4 + 5 = 9
Da Vinci, Cleveland Clinic  4/14/09   Nerves spared, but carved up a little.
0/23 lymph nodes involved  pT3a NO MX
Catheter and 2 stints in ureters for 2 weeks .
Neg Margins, bladder neck negative
Living the Good Life, cancer free  6 week PSA  <.03
3 month PSA <.01 (different lab)
5 month PSA <.03 (undetectable)
6 Month PSA <.01
1 pad a day, no progress on ED.  Trimix injection
No pads, 1/1/10,  9 month PSA < .01
1 year psa (364 days) .01
15 month PSA <.01

compiler
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 7212
   Posted 9/23/2010 4:51 PM (GMT -6)   
Steve:
 
You said "let’s ban conversations regarding spouses and significant others"
 
No reason to do that. If you don't see the difference between that and the politics/religion topics, then you are choosing to close your eyes.
 
James C. said it very well.
 
Goodlife-- you make a good point. Seems we can be judicious in making these determinations.
 
I have faith that the moderators can and do use good common sense.
 
Mel
PSA-- 3/08--2.90; 8/09--4.01; 11/09--4.19 (PSAf: 24%), PCA3 =75 .
Biopsy 11/30/09. Gleason 4+3. Stage: T1C. Current Age: 64
Surgery: Dr. Menon @Ford Hospital, 1/26/10.
Pathology Report: G 4+3. Nodes: Clear. PNI: yes. SVI: No. EPE: yes. Pos. Margin: Yes-- focal-- 1 spot .5mm. 100% continent by 3/10. ED- in progress. First post-op PSA on 3/10/10-: 0.01. PSA on 6/21/10--0.02. 9/21/10--0.06

Zen9
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 312
   Posted 9/23/2010 5:12 PM (GMT -6)   
compiler said...
Steve,
You said "let’s ban conversations regarding spouses and significant others"  No reason to do that. If you don't see the difference between that and the politics/religion topics, then you are choosing to close your eyes.
 
Spot on.
 
Zen9

Piano
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 847
   Posted 9/23/2010 5:20 PM (GMT -6)   
Faith, hope and love are loaded words and before we discuss them, we need to define exactly what we mean.

My favorite definition of faith is something we continue to believe in despite all evidence to the contrary.
Mel said...
I have faith that the moderators can and do use good common sense.
I would prefer to say I trust the moderators can and do use good common sense. :-)

Post Edited (Piano) : 9/23/2010 4:26:37 PM (GMT-6)


Cajun Jeff
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 4110
   Posted 9/23/2010 5:41 PM (GMT -6)   
Goodlife I must say I agree with your statements. Look forward to meeting you face to face on Friday at the GFMPH gathering.

Cajun Jeff
9/08 PSA 5.4 referred to Urologist
9/08 Biopsy: GS 3+4=7 1 positive core in 12 1% cancer core
10/08 Nerve-Sparing open radicalSurgery Path Report Downgrade 3+3=6 GS Stage pT2c margins clea
r3 month: PSA <0.1
19th month: PSA <0.1
Only issue at this time is ED

Tony Crispino
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 8128
   Posted 9/23/2010 5:52 PM (GMT -6)   
The real meaning of the word faith is defined below...

faith   
[feyth] Show IPA
–noun
1. confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.
2. belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.
3. belief in god or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims.
4. belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.: to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty.
5. a system of religious belief: the Christian faith; the Jewish faith.
6. the obligation of loyalty or fidelity to a person, promise, engagement, etc.: Failure to appear would be breaking faith.
7. the observance of this obligation; fidelity to one's promise, oath, allegiance, etc.: He was the only one who proved his faith during our recent troubles.
8. Christian Theology . the trust in God and in His promises as made through Christ and the scriptures by which humans are justified or saved.
—Idiom
9. in faith, in truth; indeed: In faith, he is a fine lad.

It cannot in itself be assumed what is meant when a person uses the term. We must have more tolerance on display here as we cannot create an unwelcome environment for anybody.

Tony

Post Edited (TC-LasVegas) : 9/23/2010 5:19:12 PM (GMT-6)


60Michael
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2009
Total Posts : 2229
   Posted 9/23/2010 6:32 PM (GMT -6)   
Absolutely none of the above posts have harmed me.
Michael
Dx with PCA 12/08 2 out of 12 cores positive 4.5 psa
59 yo when diagnosed, 61 yo 2010
Robotic surgery 5/09 Atlanta, Ga
Catheter out after 10 days
Gleason upgraded to 3+5, volume less than 10%
2 pads per day, 1 depends but getting better,
 started ED tx 7/17, slow go
Post op dx of neuropathy
T2C left lateral and left posterior margins involved
3 months psa.01, 6 month psa.4, 6 1/2 month psa.5 on 11/28/10
Starting IMRT on 1/18/10, Completed 39 tx at 70 gys on 3/12/10
6 week Post IMRT PSA .44 a drop from .5 but maybe more
Great family and friends
Michael

BillyMac
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 1858
   Posted 9/23/2010 6:51 PM (GMT -6)   
Ah Tony, I am disappointed. I think we all know the definition and meaning of "faith". And now we understand with this thread what logoslidat ( who I sincerely hope stays here) had in mind when raising "faith". Those who object to the ban on raising religion should campaign to have that ban removed so they can voice their thoughts ....... of course they must then concede that same right to those who do not believe to point out the foolishness of such belief. Then we can let the big dogs hunt ....... but we all understand the end result of that course. I find no reason to mention my lack of belief when I post a message about anything so why, oh why, must the religiously inclined constantly feel the need to sneak in a declaration of faith or a mention of their particular deity with their posts.
Bill

Tony Crispino
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 8128
   Posted 9/23/2010 7:04 PM (GMT -6)   
Some have made it clear that they really don't care what is meant when the word "faith" is used and they will assume it to mean what they want it to mean and will make trouble at their choosing when they see it. I find it appalling that anyone is intentionally following members around here to cause argument. Rule 11 does not ban the words being argued here nor does it ban other words that the same people will intentionally seek to make trouble about. This can in fact be determined to be flaming other members...And if we are to hold up one rule, we should also hold up the other.

I have posted this thread in the Moderator's forum and I will follow what they see is fit.

Tony

Ziggy9
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 981
   Posted 9/23/2010 7:31 PM (GMT -6)   
TC-LasVegas said...
Some have made it clear that they really don't care what is meant when the word "faith" is used and they will assume it to mean what they want it to mean and will make trouble at their choosing when they see it. I find it appalling that anyone is intentionally following members around here to cause argument. Rule 11 does not ban the words being argued here nor does it ban other words that the same people will intentionally seek to make trouble about. This can in fact be determined to be flaming other members...And if we are to hold up one rule, we should also hold up the other.

I have posted this thread in the Moderator's forum and I will follow what they see is fit.

Tony


Nobody is following people around to check their every post. This was about a thread that screamed faith in it's very title and whose originator confessed was happy to provoke a discussion (or argument) about that subject. The first paragraph mentions the separation of church and state. Then later was a desparging remark about science. It didn't take a genius to see religion was meant by his using the word faith. The fact we are still arguing illustrates the poison nature of this as a topic in a non religious forum.

Post Edited (Ziggy9) : 9/23/2010 6:43:56 PM (GMT-6)


kbota
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2010
Total Posts : 486
   Posted 9/23/2010 7:46 PM (GMT -6)   
I guess I'm of a different mindset on the faith/religion thing. I am a Christian man....period. But I have no right to force my views on anyone. Nor do I have the right to "become offended" if someone chooses not to believe as I do. (ie...disagrees with me.)

Personally, I am a respecter of persons, and I choose to not be offended when someone believes different from me.

Isn't that a very simple concept? Or what am I missing?

To the mods.... Is it acceptable to tell another poster that "I"ll keep you in my prayers" ? Or does that violate #11 ?
Age 57 at Diagnosis
May, 09 PSA 2.26
June, 10 PSA 3.07 Free PSA 18%
Met with Uro, DRE +
June, 10 Biopsy, 7 of 12 cores, up to 60%, 4+5=9
July 21, 2010 - RRP
Nodes negative
Vesicles negative
tumor contained in capsule, still 4+5=9
perineural invasion extensive
Aug 5, 10 catheter out
Sept 3, 10 PSA - 0.00 (great big whew)
As of 9/3/2010, I'm 99% continent - only occasional stress incontinence !

Ziggy9
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 981
   Posted 9/23/2010 7:57 PM (GMT -6)   
kbota said...
I guess I'm of a different mindset on the faith/religion thing. I am a Christian man....period. But I have no right to force my views on anyone. Nor do I have the right to "become offended" if someone chooses not to believe as I do. (ie...disagrees with me.)

Personally, I am a respecter of persons, and I choose to not be offended when someone believes different from me.

Isn't that a very simple concept? Or what am I missing?

To the mods.... Is it acceptable to tell another poster that "I"ll keep you in my prayers" ? Or does that violate #11 ?


You're missing how religious and/or political threads here would turn this forum into argumentative camps and thus make PCa discussion which is the topic of this forum secondary. There are plenty of past precedents for this in other forums and newsgroups. You allow a toe hold for inflammatory subjects and a fire will result.

As far as I'll keep you...
there was once a regular here who objected to those when they were sent his way. I find that too intolerant I admit so I don't care about those personally. I doubt rule 11 is intended for those remarks.

clocknut
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2010
Total Posts : 2670
   Posted 9/23/2010 8:00 PM (GMT -6)   
I've been lurking on this site since I had my robotic prostatectomy on Aug. 20th and have found a lot of encouragement in seeing the experiences of others who have gone through this process. I've been looking forward to joining, but after reading this thread am not certain I should. I'm not the type of person who injects religion where it's not welcome. On the other hand, my personal experiences with this disease have included a sense of comfort knowing that my siblings, friends, and relatives were keeping me in their prayers and their thoughts. I also found tremendous comfort when my parish priest gave me the sacrament of anointing on the day before my surgery. These were part of my exprience and they helped me through difficult times. If I can't talk about my complete experience.....if I can only talk about PSA numbers and Gleason scores, and perineural invasion, then I'm not able to present my situation in its entirety. If a doctor's bedside manner is important, or if it's OK to say that I was scared to death or that I would occasionally break into tears without warning, why is it anathema to talk about what helped me through: the love of a wonderful wife, good friends, a competent surgeon, good hospital care, advice found on the internet, incuding forums such as this one, and the knowledge that I wasn't facing this alone....that people even on the other side of the world in Australlia were including me in my prayers and sending good wishes my way. That's reality. I don't claim any benefit from any of this that can be objectively measured or scientifically proven....it's just what happened and it's part of my battle with prostate cancer. So, am I unwelcome here. Please advise.

goodlife
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 2691
   Posted 9/23/2010 8:29 PM (GMT -6)   
I certainly hope you feel welcome to stay here Clocknut. As in society, you will hear those on here who are particularly offended that anyone could find any comfort or meaning from anything else other than what they can see, touch , or feel.

In their zeal, they are more adamant about their position than any person of faith has ever been . Hopefully we can all choose to ignore threads that we don't agree with and move on.

Weclome to HW. There are some great folks on here.
Goodlife
 
Age 58, PSA 4.47 Biopsy - 2/12 cores , Gleason 4 + 5 = 9
Da Vinci, Cleveland Clinic  4/14/09   Nerves spared, but carved up a little.
0/23 lymph nodes involved  pT3a NO MX
Catheter and 2 stints in ureters for 2 weeks .
Neg Margins, bladder neck negative
Living the Good Life, cancer free  6 week PSA  <.03
3 month PSA <.01 (different lab)
5 month PSA <.03 (undetectable)
6 Month PSA <.01
1 pad a day, no progress on ED.  Trimix injection
No pads, 1/1/10,  9 month PSA < .01
1 year psa (364 days) .01
15 month PSA <.01

kbota
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2010
Total Posts : 486
   Posted 9/23/2010 8:59 PM (GMT -6)   
You're missing how religious and/or political threads here would turn this forum into argumentative camps and thus make PCa discussion which is the topic of this forum secondary. There are plenty of past precedents for this in other forums and newsgroups. You allow a toe hold for inflammatory subjects and a fire will result.

As far as I'll keep you...
there was once a regular here who objected to those when they were sent his way. I find that too intolerant I admit so I don't care about those personally. I doubt rule 11 is intended for those remarks.

No sir, I'm not missing it. I just find it incredulous that someone "chooses" to take offense at another persons post about their belief system on an internet forum....no matter what their belief system is. Having said that, if there are many people in our society who "choose" to be that sensitive, then certainly that gives much weight to having and enforcing #11.

And please understand. I'm not trying to be argumentative in any way, shape or form. Just being my usual inquisitive self. I never take personal offense at what someone else posts on an internet forum. It's just to easy to move past it/ignore it.
Age 57 at Diagnosis
May, 09 PSA 2.26
June, 10 PSA 3.07 Free PSA 18%
Met with Uro, DRE +
June, 10 Biopsy, 7 of 12 cores, up to 60%, 4+5=9
July 21, 2010 - RRP
Nodes negative
Vesicles negative
tumor contained in capsule, still 4+5=9
perineural invasion extensive
Aug 5, 10 catheter out
Sept 3, 10 PSA - 0.00 (great big whew)
As of 9/3/2010, I'm 99% continent - only occasional stress incontinence !
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